Diablo 3 - Diablo 3 Patch 14 Information

Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We recently released an update to the Mists of Pandaria talent tree. Since the expansion is still in development, these updates represent a snapshot of where we are at any given moment and not a final design where we step back and say “Ladies and gentlemen, we have achieved perfection. Let us not change a thing.” If you’ve been playing the game for a while, you’ve probably realized by now that we never think we’ll hit perfection, and we probably never will.

One design that we haven’t focused on much yet is the plan for various group buffs and debuffs. Some specs have their buffs in place and some do not. Rather than trying to describe each omission, we thought we’d just dump the whole design on you here. As with the rest of the expansion’s systems, we’re not even in beta yet, so there’s plenty of time for things to change.

First, some underlying design goals, so you might understand where we’re coming from. Our main goals for group buffs are:


  • Make you feel more powerful when grouped with other players.
  • Give you lots of freedom to invite whom you want. This gets to be a problem when there are too many mandatory buffs spread out among too many specs. . .
  • …But not offer too many incentives to class stack. If you can achieve every buff with, say, only three players, then there might be a tendency to fill all of the other slots with whoever is best for a particular situation. Some class stacking is inevitable at the cutting-edge level, but to some extent, the players on the cutting edge of raiding enjoy extreme min-maxing. For the rest of us, we try to make sure you can finish all of the encounters without feeling like you need a huge roster of folks waiting in the wings for their one fight.
  • We tend to be more generous to DPS specs, since groups -- especially raids -- already have ample reasons to bring tanks and healers.
  • We generally don’t want a DPS spec to have to switch to a different spec in the same role just to bring a different buff. An example would be a Combat rogue who has to go Assassination just for a buff. In our experience, players are less likely to switch from a ranged to a melee DPS spec just for a buff, so DPS shaman and DPS druids might bring different buffs.

And finally some notes on the categories below:


  • The list only includes what we consider “traditional” buffs, such as Prayer of Fortitude. It doesn’t include utility like being great at snaring, battle rez, knock backs, high DPS while moving, and other mechanics. Those ultimately all factor into a raid or Battleground comp as well.
  • The matrix is a little more complex than it appears. A paladin, for example, can only offer one Blessing at a time, while a warrior can only do one shout at a time. You can’t assume one character can cover every buff or debuff listed below at the same time.
  • Some of these are active (you must cast them, like Prayer of Fortitude) while others are passive. Note that totems no longer bring passive buffs as a rule.
  • You’ll see several categories consolidated or gone. Bleeds no longer made sense, since everyone who cared about bleeds already buffed themselves. Magical resistance we just removed from the game, though there are some abilities that provide magical damage reduction.
  • We are still likely to use the design that hunters, especially Beastmaster hunters, can fill in for missing buffs or debuffs by using certain pets.

As always, we’d love to get your feedback on this design.

Buffs

Stats
Effect: +5% Strength, Agility, and Intellect
Example: Blessing of Kings
Brought by: Any druid, any monk, any paladin

Stamina
Effect: +10% Stamina
Example: Power Word: Fortitude
Brought by: Any priest, any warlock, any warrior

Attack Power
Effect: +10% melee and ranged attack power (which will be the same value again)
Example: Battle Shout
Brought by: Any death knight, any hunter, any warrior

Spell Power
Effect: +10% spell power (there will no longer be a 6% version)
Example: Arcane Brilliance
Brought by: Any mage, any shaman, any warlock

Haste
Effect: +10% melee and ranged haste
Example: Improved Icy Talons
Brought by: Frost and Unholy death knights, any rogue, Enhancement shaman

Spell Haste
Effect: +5% spell haste
Example: Moonkin Aura
Brought by: Balance druids, Shadow priests, Elemental shaman

Critical Strike
Effect: +5% ranged, melee, and spell critical chance
Example: Leader of the Pack
Brought by: Guardian and Feral druids, any hunter, any mage

Mastery
Effect: +5 mastery
Example: This is a new category
Brought by: Windwalker monks, any paladin, any shaman

Debuffs

Weakened Armor
Effect: -12% armor
Example: Sunder Armor
Brought by: Any druid, any rogue, any warrior

Physical Vulnerability
Effect: +4% physical damage taken
Example: Brittle Bones
Brought by: Frost and Unholy death knights, Retribution paladins, Arms and Fury warriors

Magic Vulnerability
Effect: +8% spell damage taken
Example: Curse of the Elements
Brought by: Any rogue, any warlock

Weakened Blows
Effect: -10% physical damage done
Example: Previously Demoralizing Shout; now Thunder Clap
Brought by: Blood death knight, Feral and Guardian druid, Brewmaster monk, Protection or Retribution paladin, any warrior (any tank)

Slow Casting

Effect: -30% casting speed
Example: Mind-numbing Poison
Brought by: Any death knight, any rogue, any warlock

Mortal Wounds
Effect: -25% healing received
Example: Mortal Strike
Brought by: Arms or Fury warrior, any rogue, any hunter

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He was unsuccessful in convincing the rest of the class team to change Arms warrior mastery to decreased falling damage taken.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design started by chaud View original post
Comments 230 Comments
  1. Gwendion's Avatar
    Mastery
    Quote Originally Posted by Shampoo View Post
    that +5 mastery buff looks nice
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcatraz_ View Post
    Good stuff actually, I like the changes and the new +5 Mastery is a good addition as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
    That 5 mastery is gonna get those windwalker monks invited to EV-YRThAnG
    I do believe, like the 3 posters before me, that it is meant to read "+5 PERCENT mastery buff" - but right now it just says +5 which wouldn't be very impressive at all. This also spells out that mastery is going to be even more important in future than it already is. Hunters
    Quote Originally Posted by Zedextenr View Post
    Where is this going to leave Hunter pets as far as providing buff and debuffs to the raid?
    Quote Originally Posted by Namarus View Post
    A complete slap in the face to hunters, is there any reason to bring a hunter to a raid anymore?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikiyodragon View Post
    Hunters will act as "wild cards", being able to provide probably all or most of these listed buffs. Just bring in the pet that's needed. EDIT: This was in response to an above question.
    Unfortunately Namarus and Zedextenr are right, Kikiyodragon is only partially right. Why? In a 5-man party (dungeon) you are likely to not have a buff or debuff you would like to have for a given encounter, even more so in a 3-man group (new encounters in Pandaria!). For dungeons bringing a hunter, especially with the LFG, is always welcome, due to the versatility of a stable of pets. Sadly, 5-mans aren't really the top-end of the list of considerations... raids are. However, when it comes to raiding the buff Hunter pets are bringing are always overwritten by the stronger buffs of a particular class. In other words: for raiding hunters are not bringing any buff - but do they add more dps than others? What we have seen in Cataclysm they were not top of the dps list - AND NOW they don't even bring a buff worth mentioning. So I agree with Namarus - if you are facing an encounter with a 50/50 chance of beating it - which responsible raid leader would invite a hunter and leave one "buff-bringing" class on the bench? I am sure all the hunters here will agree with me: Being a hunter is fun. It is fun to play and I want to raid with him as much as the next. But it would help my argument if I could bring something "special" to the raid, too - and more than just "versatility". Besides, some buffs from pets are indeed ONLY available from BM hunters; as everyne knows the weakest dps spec of the three... Spell haste
    Quote Originally Posted by Xami View Post
    As everyone can easily see, spell haste is way too hard to bring for 10m (if the raid size doesn't change). Even if they decide to go with 15, there's still some chance that there will be no boomkin/elesham/spriest. It seems like the blizz post is no longer accepting comments - perhaps they made a typo or made a mistake? Edit: they spawned a separate discussion thread.
    I would agree, this would spell out to always bring a moonkin or a shadow priest or an elemental shaman to a raid if you want spell haste. However, those hybrid classes would otherwise potentially never get a raid spot vs a "pure" dps class. In so far I welcome this change. Shaman Lastly, an observation of my own. 1) Spell Power [...] Brought by: Any mage, any shaman, any warlock 2) Haste [...] Brought by: Frost and Unholy death knights, any rogue, Enhancement shaman 3) Spell Haste [...] Brought by: Balance druids, Shadow priests, Elemental shaman 4) Mastery [...] Brought by: Windwalker monks, any paladin, any shaman Arguably the most powerful buffs are all brought by a single class. Invite a shaman and you almost certainly have a much needed buff covered - while other classes have to share "their" buff probably with another class in the raid. Seeing the history of WOW from Vanilla to now I think the WOW developers *still* favor playing troll shaman ( old saying from Vanilla times)
  1. Lycanthro's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendion View Post
    Mastery I do believe, like the 3 posters before me, that it is meant to read "+5 PERCENT mastery buff" - but right now it just says +5 which wouldn't be very impressive at all.
    You do know the difference between Mastery and Mastery Rating, don't you? +5 Mastery would be a lot more than +5% Mastery Rating.
  1. sacrypheyes's Avatar
    telling they've noticed they sucked here and there is nice.saying they're going to fix this and that is nicer.actually fixing them will be better.just like people say wow will die/is dead, bliz keep telling they'll fix wow... in the meantime, we wait to see any of these to happen.
  1. Virandile's Avatar
    "He was unsuccessful in convincing the rest of the class team to change Arms warrior mastery to decreased falling damage taken."

    Made my day, thank you!
  1. mmoc1295c6b442's Avatar
    Am I reading this correctly, but shamans don't 'give' a debuff to enemies, where all other classes do?BAH!
  1. Sarella's Avatar
    A couple of issues they should consider:1) Still too many buffs on the table. Stamina should be baked back into Kings to the tune of 5% Str/Int/Sta/Agi. No reason to keep it separate just to make it 5% more.Keeping Spell haste and haste separate is pointless as well, especially as crit is being combined.This would put it down to only 6 buffs, making it much easier to bring the player not the class.2) Why would you bother with a feral druid?They really don't bring anything to the table that every popular class doesn't. Crit is all they provide that any druid does not (and it's going to be rare you dont have a druid pally or monk present other than them... and the 5% crit is covered by mages, bears and hunters. Really diminishes a reason to bring them).It's a good first list but really blizzard have been under the impression if they remove too many it'll feel dull.
  1. Cernunnos's Avatar
    No more 5% crit buff from fury warriors. /sadpanda.
  1. mmoc347b925a37's Avatar
    I've looked again on MOP talents tree, and Earth Shock still has a Weakened Blows effect...
  1. wards99's Avatar
    all this is telling me one thing. 25 man raids are dead.
    i was kind of hoping that they would just have 15 man raids and only that size. i find 10 mans to be a little laking in a sence that they dont feel so epic. maybe 20 mans.
    i cant beleive that people dont like that elli shamies balance druids amd shadow priest are the ones with the 10% haste buff. they wouldnt get a spot if not and people wouldnt play those classes. i seems that the pure dps classes are going to be at least 10% more dps
  1. Delaios's Avatar
    The way I see +5 Mastery:
    As an example, one point of the Marksmanship's mastery gives a 2.1% chance to fire an additional ranged shot when firing any ranged shot. With the buff, you'll get an extra 10.5% chance to fire an additional ranged shot, on top of whatever your current mastery is at. If you've got a 30% as MM right now, with the buff you'll get 40.5% chance. If as Survival you currently have 12% extra elemental damage due to your mastery, you'll get 17% extra elemental damage after the buff. If a Holy Paladin puts a 20% shield on a target after a heal now, they'll put a 27.5% heal with the buff.

    There's a huge difference between a Mastery Point and Mastery Rating. It obviously won't be +5 rating, because that would be insignificant.
  1. Lil's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendion View Post
    Mastery For dungeons bringing a hunter, especially with the LFG, is always welcome, due to the versatility of a stable of pets. Sadly, 5-mans aren't really the top-end of the list of considerations... raids are. However, when it comes to raiding the buff Hunter pets are bringing are always overwritten by the stronger buffs of a particular class. In other words: for raiding hunters are not bringing any buff
    What are you talking about? There are no "strong" or "weak" buffs, pets can provide (almost) every buff. If you are complaining that in a 25 man raid, all buffs probably already will be covered - well, that can be said for every class.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sarella View Post
    A couple of issues they should consider:1) Still too many buffs on the table. Stamina should be baked back into Kings to the tune of 5% Str/Int/Sta/Agi. No reason to keep it separate just to make it 5% more.Keeping Spell haste and haste separate is pointless as well, especially as crit is being combined.This would put it down to only 6 buffs, making it much easier to bring the player not the class.2) Why would you bother with a feral druid?They really don't bring anything to the table that every popular class doesn't.
    Again: what are you talking about?
    1) "Reduce number of buffs please."
    2) "There are too few buffs, the one my class brings is not unique enough."
    Contradict much?
  1. Sarevokcz's Avatar
    so it seems like attack speed debuff is gone, what happens with Earth Shock debuff?Also, CoE from warlocks and rogues(??) only? Seriously? I hope it is just and oversight and hunter pets still have it, regardless, giving caster debuff to melee always sounded retarded to me, casters dont bring sunders or mortal blows either...
  1. Cybran's Avatar
    So for hunters that means Pets = UselessBM - 3% buff goneSurv - 10% haste buff goneSeriously?
  1. mastertroll's Avatar
    moonkins lose +8% spell damage ? well that sucks
  1. rogas's Avatar
    2 things are on stake here;-survival of 25man raiding: (25man should cover all buffs/debuffs; while 10man raid shouldn't cover all buffs) (this penalty for 10man raiding is now taken away)-spec/class stacking in raidgroups: ( shared buffs/debuffs between dps/melee, is likely gonna lead to spec/class stacking )It's a good thing they only gave the 10% haste buff to Balance druids, Shadow priests, Elemental shaman ... so we'll see a least one of those in future raiding ;-)
  1. killmory's Avatar
    giving enh shaman buffs like haste and SP ~_~ WTF are the dev team thinking..... are they retarded or something?
  1. Rioo's Avatar
    So monks are basically druids who stay in caster form but gain the benefits of forms.
  1. dancm's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendion View Post
    Mastery I do believe, like the 3 posters before me, that it is meant to read "+5 PERCENT mastery buff" - but right now it just says +5 which wouldn't be very impressive at all. This also spells out that mastery is going to be even more important in future than it already is.
    Do you actually notice that +5% Mastery actually translates into +1 Mastery if you reach 20 Mastery? And 20 Mastery aren't that easy to get. +5 Mastery is way better than what you want...
  1. Ethas's Avatar
    You are updating calculator and still priests don't have 87 level spell. Nice snapshot about current development situation, perfectly shows you don't want priest class in the game.
  1. Sinister Knight's Avatar
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    Bleeds no longer made sense, since everyone who cared about bleeds already buffed themselves.
    Incorrect. Fury Warriors spec for Deep Wounds to apply a Bleed, but cannot spec for Blood Frenzy to improve their own Bleed damage. Not sure where they got the above idea... :/

Site Navigation