MMO-Champion - Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design
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Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We recently released an update to the Mists of Pandaria talent tree. Since the expansion is still in development, these updates represent a snapshot of where we are at any given moment and not a final design where we step back and say “Ladies and gentlemen, we have achieved perfection. Let us not change a thing.” If you’ve been playing the game for a while, you’ve probably realized by now that we never think we’ll hit perfection, and we probably never will.

One design that we haven’t focused on much yet is the plan for various group buffs and debuffs. Some specs have their buffs in place and some do not. Rather than trying to describe each omission, we thought we’d just dump the whole design on you here. As with the rest of the expansion’s systems, we’re not even in beta yet, so there’s plenty of time for things to change.

First, some underlying design goals, so you might understand where we’re coming from. Our main goals for group buffs are:


  • Make you feel more powerful when grouped with other players.
  • Give you lots of freedom to invite whom you want. This gets to be a problem when there are too many mandatory buffs spread out among too many specs. . .
  • …But not offer too many incentives to class stack. If you can achieve every buff with, say, only three players, then there might be a tendency to fill all of the other slots with whoever is best for a particular situation. Some class stacking is inevitable at the cutting-edge level, but to some extent, the players on the cutting edge of raiding enjoy extreme min-maxing. For the rest of us, we try to make sure you can finish all of the encounters without feeling like you need a huge roster of folks waiting in the wings for their one fight.
  • We tend to be more generous to DPS specs, since groups -- especially raids -- already have ample reasons to bring tanks and healers.
  • We generally don’t want a DPS spec to have to switch to a different spec in the same role just to bring a different buff. An example would be a Combat rogue who has to go Assassination just for a buff. In our experience, players are less likely to switch from a ranged to a melee DPS spec just for a buff, so DPS shaman and DPS druids might bring different buffs.

And finally some notes on the categories below:


  • The list only includes what we consider “traditional” buffs, such as Prayer of Fortitude. It doesn’t include utility like being great at snaring, battle rez, knock backs, high DPS while moving, and other mechanics. Those ultimately all factor into a raid or Battleground comp as well.
  • The matrix is a little more complex than it appears. A paladin, for example, can only offer one Blessing at a time, while a warrior can only do one shout at a time. You can’t assume one character can cover every buff or debuff listed below at the same time.
  • Some of these are active (you must cast them, like Prayer of Fortitude) while others are passive. Note that totems no longer bring passive buffs as a rule.
  • You’ll see several categories consolidated or gone. Bleeds no longer made sense, since everyone who cared about bleeds already buffed themselves. Magical resistance we just removed from the game, though there are some abilities that provide magical damage reduction.
  • We are still likely to use the design that hunters, especially Beastmaster hunters, can fill in for missing buffs or debuffs by using certain pets.

As always, we’d love to get your feedback on this design.

Buffs

Stats
Effect: +5% Strength, Agility, and Intellect
Example: Blessing of Kings
Brought by: Any druid, any monk, any paladin

Stamina
Effect: +10% Stamina
Example: Power Word: Fortitude
Brought by: Any priest, any warlock, any warrior

Attack Power
Effect: +10% melee and ranged attack power (which will be the same value again)
Example: Battle Shout
Brought by: Any death knight, any hunter, any warrior

Spell Power
Effect: +10% spell power (there will no longer be a 6% version)
Example: Arcane Brilliance
Brought by: Any mage, any shaman, any warlock

Haste
Effect: +10% melee and ranged haste
Example: Improved Icy Talons
Brought by: Frost and Unholy death knights, any rogue, Enhancement shaman

Spell Haste
Effect: +5% spell haste
Example: Moonkin Aura
Brought by: Balance druids, Shadow priests, Elemental shaman

Critical Strike
Effect: +5% ranged, melee, and spell critical chance
Example: Leader of the Pack
Brought by: Guardian and Feral druids, any hunter, any mage

Mastery
Effect: +5 mastery
Example: This is a new category
Brought by: Windwalker monks, any paladin, any shaman

Debuffs

Weakened Armor
Effect: -12% armor
Example: Sunder Armor
Brought by: Any druid, any rogue, any warrior

Physical Vulnerability
Effect: +4% physical damage taken
Example: Brittle Bones
Brought by: Frost and Unholy death knights, Retribution paladins, Arms and Fury warriors

Magic Vulnerability
Effect: +8% spell damage taken
Example: Curse of the Elements
Brought by: Any rogue, any warlock

Weakened Blows
Effect: -10% physical damage done
Example: Previously Demoralizing Shout; now Thunder Clap
Brought by: Blood death knight, Feral and Guardian druid, Brewmaster monk, Protection or Retribution paladin, any warrior (any tank)

Slow Casting

Effect: -30% casting speed
Example: Mind-numbing Poison
Brought by: Any death knight, any rogue, any warlock

Mortal Wounds
Effect: -25% healing received
Example: Mortal Strike
Brought by: Arms or Fury warrior, any rogue, any hunter

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He was unsuccessful in convincing the rest of the class team to change Arms warrior mastery to decreased falling damage taken.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design started by chaud View original post
Comments 231 Comments
  1. DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Wait. Are you telling me that Unleashed Rage is... gone? ...please tell me you're joking. I am not happy with it!
  1. Dark Exerus's Avatar
    "Highly-skilled players would have no one to oppose in the BG" They would just do what they have been doing since the beginning gank lowbies when not in a bg or camp gy when in a bg.
  1. Cuj0u812's Avatar
    I think I would rather have them release the whole game at launch, no matter how broken it is, I mean that is what all the cool games are doing now right? Now on a more serious note, I don't mind waiting while for them to makes sure the PvP system is up to par before they patch it in. I will just enjoy the rest of the game until then. And if I get the urge to play in a broken pvp system I'll just log back on to WoW. But really, for all of you who are so pissed off and complaining about how long it has taken for D3 to come out, if you are that upset then why not just skip the game and save your money for a more awesome game like....... Dragon Age or SWTOR .... oh wait they are already there and they sucked because they were released too early and broken.
  1. thelordymir's Avatar
    In Mists PvP, they both do about the same amount of raw damage to each other, with a slight edge for Jillian. Her power stat offsets Ders's PvE stats. Jillian takes less damage because of her PvP Defense (let’s say it’s 50% damage reduction), but Ders still has 30% damage reduction innately, so he doesn’t blow up either. Again the difference is smaller. If Ders wants to get serious about PvP, he’s eventually going to want PvP gear, and Jillian will want more PvE gear to do PvE.

    So you can still do pvp in pve gear...great. That's all i'm getting from that. Sure Ders will be hit a little harder, but if he happens to be the FoTM class it won't matter because he'll have enough survivability to negate that extra resi and enough burst to drop Jillian like a rock.
  1. TanAxys's Avatar
    If everything is going to get so homogenized, and all major encounters are designed around having all possible buffs and debuffs anyway, what do they really bring to the table? Basically all they do is penalize groups that don't have the optimum raid comp.=
    ===
    Just revamp the "luck of the draw" buff, and give it to every group that gets formed. That would meet all of the design goals.=
    ==
    As for class stacking, wouldn't it be better to design encounters that don't benefit from stacking a certain class? Or maybe to redesign how spells work? Instead of having 5 Hurricanes going at the same time, let the 1st one go off and give the other 4 druids "a more powerful spell is already in effect". Or maybe have a new mechanic with diminishing returns where players combined their powers to cast the same spell, and they both get credit for it in the dps logs.=
    ==
    I wish Bliz would quit wasting resources on technical minutia masturbation like this and give us more content to do instead of making us fart around with group comp.
  1. Ebonia's Avatar
    Why not drop the amount each players buff bring to the table and simply have them stack. For example My main is a priest. More stam. Great. But now another priest will be less likely to be added to raid because the buff is already there. So why not make stam for every priest maybe 5-7% but make per priest. So 3 priests in the raid gives everyone a 15-21% stam buff. Then design raid bosses to match that design.

    So that lets say you can't just throw 10 priests in a raid to have a massive amount of stamina. Or maybe cap at 3 buffs max. Just an incentive to stack classes or not. Or to try different raid make ups to beat a boss based on stacking. And the bosses buff is based on your buffs. So if you are stacking stam as a raid the boss just hits more often harder. If you stack attack power maybe the boss has a faster enrage. If you are Changing the experience just about everytime you fight the boss the boss never gets old.

    Maybe one raid boss 20% haste is the win, maybe 20% stam is the way, maybe 20%xxxx. Just chnages the experience everytime.


    Another idea is to make buffs out of combination of classes. Like the old chronotrigger. For example: A disc priest casts his raid bubble. And then another priest does. Something special happens. Maybe instead of 10% damage reduction from each they stack and offer 25% together. Or make the bubble bigger.

    Maybe if you cast Guardian Spirit on a party member and if another priest does the same it acts as divine shield on the target for the duration. I know this is a stretch, but I dont think there must you can do in the way of buffs that make them exciting in anyway anymore. You might as well remove them and make them all passive.
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Wait. Are you telling me that Unleashed Rage is... gone? ...please tell me you're joking. I am not happy with it!
    I'm okay with it if we get to keep the expertise part of the talent. Even if hunters do end up with needing expertise, I think we ought to enjoy an advantage with that secondary stat still.
  1. pyrocchio's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Wait. Are you telling me that Unleashed Rage is... gone? ...please tell me you're joking. I am not happy with it!
    What about priests? We can just buff stamina (and any warlock/warrior can) and nothing else.. I really don't like these news.
  1. zallyffs's Avatar
    Well this is good, reducing the composition that you need to have!
  1. Jathro's Avatar
    Not gonna read through 12 pages, but what about hunters and in particular their pets when it comes to buffs/debuffs?
  1. chrixle's Avatar
    I like the buff/debuff changes a lot. The game just needed it.

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