MMO-Champion - Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design
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Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We recently released an update to the Mists of Pandaria talent tree. Since the expansion is still in development, these updates represent a snapshot of where we are at any given moment and not a final design where we step back and say “Ladies and gentlemen, we have achieved perfection. Let us not change a thing.” If you’ve been playing the game for a while, you’ve probably realized by now that we never think we’ll hit perfection, and we probably never will.

One design that we haven’t focused on much yet is the plan for various group buffs and debuffs. Some specs have their buffs in place and some do not. Rather than trying to describe each omission, we thought we’d just dump the whole design on you here. As with the rest of the expansion’s systems, we’re not even in beta yet, so there’s plenty of time for things to change.

First, some underlying design goals, so you might understand where we’re coming from. Our main goals for group buffs are:


  • Make you feel more powerful when grouped with other players.
  • Give you lots of freedom to invite whom you want. This gets to be a problem when there are too many mandatory buffs spread out among too many specs. . .
  • …But not offer too many incentives to class stack. If you can achieve every buff with, say, only three players, then there might be a tendency to fill all of the other slots with whoever is best for a particular situation. Some class stacking is inevitable at the cutting-edge level, but to some extent, the players on the cutting edge of raiding enjoy extreme min-maxing. For the rest of us, we try to make sure you can finish all of the encounters without feeling like you need a huge roster of folks waiting in the wings for their one fight.
  • We tend to be more generous to DPS specs, since groups -- especially raids -- already have ample reasons to bring tanks and healers.
  • We generally don’t want a DPS spec to have to switch to a different spec in the same role just to bring a different buff. An example would be a Combat rogue who has to go Assassination just for a buff. In our experience, players are less likely to switch from a ranged to a melee DPS spec just for a buff, so DPS shaman and DPS druids might bring different buffs.

And finally some notes on the categories below:


  • The list only includes what we consider “traditional” buffs, such as Prayer of Fortitude. It doesn’t include utility like being great at snaring, battle rez, knock backs, high DPS while moving, and other mechanics. Those ultimately all factor into a raid or Battleground comp as well.
  • The matrix is a little more complex than it appears. A paladin, for example, can only offer one Blessing at a time, while a warrior can only do one shout at a time. You can’t assume one character can cover every buff or debuff listed below at the same time.
  • Some of these are active (you must cast them, like Prayer of Fortitude) while others are passive. Note that totems no longer bring passive buffs as a rule.
  • You’ll see several categories consolidated or gone. Bleeds no longer made sense, since everyone who cared about bleeds already buffed themselves. Magical resistance we just removed from the game, though there are some abilities that provide magical damage reduction.
  • We are still likely to use the design that hunters, especially Beastmaster hunters, can fill in for missing buffs or debuffs by using certain pets.

As always, we’d love to get your feedback on this design.

Buffs

Stats
Effect: +5% Strength, Agility, and Intellect
Example: Blessing of Kings
Brought by: Any druid, any monk, any paladin

Stamina
Effect: +10% Stamina
Example: Power Word: Fortitude
Brought by: Any priest, any warlock, any warrior

Attack Power
Effect: +10% melee and ranged attack power (which will be the same value again)
Example: Battle Shout
Brought by: Any death knight, any hunter, any warrior

Spell Power
Effect: +10% spell power (there will no longer be a 6% version)
Example: Arcane Brilliance
Brought by: Any mage, any shaman, any warlock

Haste
Effect: +10% melee and ranged haste
Example: Improved Icy Talons
Brought by: Frost and Unholy death knights, any rogue, Enhancement shaman

Spell Haste
Effect: +5% spell haste
Example: Moonkin Aura
Brought by: Balance druids, Shadow priests, Elemental shaman

Critical Strike
Effect: +5% ranged, melee, and spell critical chance
Example: Leader of the Pack
Brought by: Guardian and Feral druids, any hunter, any mage

Mastery
Effect: +5 mastery
Example: This is a new category
Brought by: Windwalker monks, any paladin, any shaman

Debuffs

Weakened Armor
Effect: -12% armor
Example: Sunder Armor
Brought by: Any druid, any rogue, any warrior

Physical Vulnerability
Effect: +4% physical damage taken
Example: Brittle Bones
Brought by: Frost and Unholy death knights, Retribution paladins, Arms and Fury warriors

Magic Vulnerability
Effect: +8% spell damage taken
Example: Curse of the Elements
Brought by: Any rogue, any warlock

Weakened Blows
Effect: -10% physical damage done
Example: Previously Demoralizing Shout; now Thunder Clap
Brought by: Blood death knight, Feral and Guardian druid, Brewmaster monk, Protection or Retribution paladin, any warrior (any tank)

Slow Casting

Effect: -30% casting speed
Example: Mind-numbing Poison
Brought by: Any death knight, any rogue, any warlock

Mortal Wounds
Effect: -25% healing received
Example: Mortal Strike
Brought by: Arms or Fury warrior, any rogue, any hunter

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He was unsuccessful in convincing the rest of the class team to change Arms warrior mastery to decreased falling damage taken.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design started by chaud View original post
Comments 231 Comments
  1. devildjz's Avatar
    Hey it is Nice to see that some changes but as usual i see you guys ignore Druids for some Example lets seeas per Caster*Spell PowerEffect: +10% spell power (there will no longer be a 6% version)Example: Arcane BrillianceBrought by: Any mage, any shaman, any warlockSpell HasteEffect: +5% spell hasteExample: Moonkin AuraBrought by: Balance druids, Shadow priests, Elemental shamanMasteryEffect: +5 masteryExample: This is a new categoryBrought by: Windwalker monks, any paladin, any shamanShaman Is there for 3 times and Druid only Provide 1 Spell haste 5%*Mele*StatsEffect: +5% Strength, Agility, and IntellectExample: Blessing of KingsBrought by: Any druid, any monk, any paladinAttack PowerEffect: +10% melee and ranged attack power (which will be the same value again)Example: Battle ShoutBrought by: Any death knight, any hunter, any warriorHasteEffect: +10% melee and ranged hasteExample: Improved Icy TalonsBrought by: Frost and Unholy death knights, any rogue, Enhancement shamanCritical StrikeEffect: +5% ranged, melee, and spell critical chanceExample: Leader of the PackBrought by: Guardian and Feral druids, any hunter, any mageU can see DK have 2 Buff which*Benefit*them in the fight and know mages also have 5% crit ratingAnd Debuffs a warrior can do Sunder armor,Physical Vulnerability*Effect: +4% physical damage taken,Mortal Wounds*Effect: -25% healing receivedjust think if Druid are against a*warrior*he will get 12% Reduce Armor 4% more Dmg and 25% less Healing gain and wht druid can do to him 12% reduced armor*this is my first post i am not criting or any thing but atleast make druid to compare other classes also it is and Hybird class if we are Tanking we cant heal our Self we shape shifted when try to put any Healing Spell and Most of our armor and Dodge and other things lost if we are in Boomkin we cant help in healing we got Shape shifted and our Gud Spell Power lost for example When Druid nuking any thing he gaves Buff to the target Earth and Moon if there is any lock in ur Grp he put curse of elements which increase his Spell power and More mele dmg to target but we lost our 2% spell Dmg how we can compete to these other classes like that please consider druids a lil bit thanks*
  1. halogen's Avatar
  1. Skyepic's Avatar
    Not pleased to see balance druids and unholy DK's losing the 8% spell debuff. This doesn't really make much sense to me. Can anyone shed some light on why they'd do this. It's not like rogues and warlocks are a plentiful class that you see in every raid. Why limit such a significant buff to these 2 classes....was glad to see mages get 10% spell power to kind of even out demonic pact. But now 8% spell damage has become the new demonic pact. Kinda lame
  1. Bitlovin's Avatar
    "Bleeds no longer made sense, since everyone who cared about bleeds already buffed themselves."

    Um, except that's not true. Combat Rogue's Rupture was not buffed by Rogues, it was buffed by Druids, for example.
  1. Adonael's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TankRamp View Post
    People still play this game?
    No seriously. It's a fucking joke.
    and you`re still here & whining.?
  1. Dragonfang's Avatar
    Disappointed that the 5% crit debuff has gone.
  1. Dexiefy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    Except they've already told us that Hunter pets will be able to use any of the three trees now. Ferocity Sporebats will be viable.
    Source please.
    Also still it doesnt solve the problem cause i cant use any pet i want. I remember back in vanilla i used to run with ZG bat (screech was much better than claw for anything but pure dps, and this random rogue uncovering, sweet shit) and i loved it. Especially when beastial wrath was increasing size of pet by quite alot. I once managed to ahve bat so huge that it was nearly filling whole ah room in ironforge. Now, so what i can use wolf for 5% crit or hyena for bleed. I want to use a cat or bat or w/e else i want.
    Then comes problem of pet switching in combat, look at heroic raggy for example. Having ferocity pet out with ap buff ready for every wave of adds was amazingly good. In fact every encounter when you ahve short pause was epic for pet switching. If i don't have 5 wolves for example i cant do that or we lose the 5% crit. If i have 5 wolves and raid setup changes, i have to port back to city to switch pets around...
    The design is majorly flawed. What they should have done is make talent trees for pets just like it is for players. Basically you tame w/e pet you want, for example a cat, then you chose w/e it should be tenacity, ferocity or cunning and then you pick talents for it and then on last talent you can pick the buff/debuff you want it to bring...
  1. rogas's Avatar
    People should stop whining about the fact the 5% haste buff is only given to Balance druids, Shadow priests, Elemental shaman ...Why ? Because those 3 specs ALSO deserve a raiding spot in 10man set-ups ...
  1. Zaphiroc's Avatar
    I for one like this new setup, its more clear cut, and balances out the strengths and weaknesses of each class (:
  1. Tomsboll's Avatar
    i find it disturbing that shamans still cant bring a debuff to the battle.
  1. Moonlightz's Avatar
    There isn't any SV hunters on the haste part? Does that mean that SV hunters will loose there 'Hunting Party' ?*
  1. Myah's Avatar
    Where's the priest shadowform or moonkin haste? O.o
  1. Bakis's Avatar
    So rogues can do almost all debuffs, nice...
  1. cateran100's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pietrzyk View Post
    Oh really? In the MOP talents tree, Slow is still there. *Poins at 77 level* And no, it's not the only viable snare for arcane.Yeah, so what that you're a "pure"? Being a pure means you can change your playstyle depending your spec. By the way, if you don't enjoy the game, just quit and save people form facepalming.
    Fail..pure means---> can not fill any other role. Only in dps role and only 4 classes: Warlocks, Rogues, Hunters, Mages..every other class can fill another role, tank-healer-dps. And even their hands are really tied about the playstyle....Rare thing when the favored style meets with the most efficient....
    Just another thing: If a pure dps class sux in his role, the it turns to be pointless...If the hybrids can bring more dps, plus flexibilty, plus support, then the pure dps is meaningless...
  1. Tygor's Avatar
    Pretty much most of the comments are from people who are upset because their class/spec doesn't have a unique buff/debuff. Is it really that important? Raiding is a team game imo, you are currently a part of the team due to what you output, not what your class will be able to maybe do 4-5 months from now.
  1. Mandible's Avatar
    mmh still a whole lot of buffs or debuffs from priests compared to other classes - unless I read completely wrong they "only" got two. But still some time to make up for that I guess - and if they dont I wouldn´t buy alot into the whole "we dont want stacking of one class" when it comes to buffs / debuffs

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-09 at 05:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tygor View Post
    Pretty much most of the comments are from people who are upset because their class/spec doesn't have a unique buff/debuff. Is it really that important? Raiding is a team game imo, you are currently a part of the team due to what you output, not what your class will be able to maybe do 4-5 months from now.
    "Raiding is a team game" stops the second you need optimal setup to kill something and your specific class / race doesn´t have that one thing that will make or break the fight
  1. Meldon's Avatar
    I'm sick of this bullshit excuse:
    Hybrids should deal less damages or heal less because we, "pure" can only do one thing and we should be superior to them in what we do.

    I play a balance druid and i don't give a f*** if i have a tank spec or an healer spec, i like the boomkin PLAYSTYLE and i want to be competitive with a fire mage or a warlock or a rogue. End of the story.

    Being a pure should means that you can change your talents to change your PLAYSTILE see arcane mage vs fire mage, markmanship hunter vs survival hunter, affliction warlock vs ddestruction warlock.

    Being an hybrid means that you can change yout talents to change your ROLE, there is absolutely NO REASON for which we should suck in what we do because for the very same reason an affliction warlock when using a destruction spec should suck because he is a dotter and mages are the one that deal damage with single target casted abilities.
  1. Gwynedd's Avatar
    Magic VulnerabilityEffect: +8% spell damage takenExample: Curse of the ElementsBrought by: Any rogue, any warlock
    I might have given this to any priest, any mage, and maybe any warlock. I'm not seeing priests or mages bringing any debuffs to the table and it's completely irrelevant for rogues (unless poisons are turning into magical effects?????), whom already cover most of the other debuffs.
  1. Kaesebrezen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Beenieshaman View Post
    Don't you think Mookins, Priest and Shaman have to much already.

    The haste buff is a problem, need more class Than those those 3hybrid spec that have big chance not to be in a man as DPS
    Did you even look at the buff list?
    Moonkins have: 5% Stats and 5% Spellhaste
    Shadows have: 10% Stamina and 5% Spellhaste
    Elementals have: 10% Spellpower, 5 Mastery and 5 % Spellhaste
    Further:
    Moonkins provide: 1 Battlerez and tranquility
    Shamans: Healing Rain (which can be talented for 10% magic damage reduction), a self-rez and most important - Heroism.
    Shadowpriests have nothing beyond their 2 buffs, and stamina is the first buff you'd drop.

    And also, no, other classes don't need the spell haste buff, not without buffing (Shadow) Priests and possible Druids in the Buff department.

    I'm not seeing priests or mages bringing any debuffs to the table and it's completely irrelevant for rogues (unless poisons are turning into magical effects?????), whom already cover most of the other debuffs.
    Mages have 10% Spellpower, 5% crit and heroism. They don't need more.
  1. grandpapeckinpah's Avatar
    looks good. interested in seeing how the mastery buffs work in practice

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