MMO-Champion - Dev Watercooler - Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained
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Dev Watercooler - Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Hey, how about that landslide of Mists of Pandaria information? It has taken a few days, and will probably take a few more, for the nuance of everything to really sink in. One of the topics we've been getting lots of questions about is the crazy new loot model we're introducing in Mists. We've answered several related questions in the forums, but thought it might be prudent to just put all the information in one place.

I should clarify that the systems we're introducing are actually pretty simple in practice. I'm only going into a fair amount of detail because those are the kinds of questions we are getting. You don't have to understand all the particulars to participate, and we're certain that it will just all make sense once you are experiencing it in-game instead of hearing it described (that whole "show, don't tell" thing). Let's begin:

Personal Loot

Here is how looting works in today's Raid Finder groups:


  • The boss dies.
  • The game randomly decides which items off of the boss's loot table drop.
  • The group rolls Need, Greed, or Pass on each item.
  • If you were raiding with a group of friends, you might discuss who should get each item. Even if you ultimately lost, hopefully you are happy that a friend got an upgrade and that your group as a whole is now a little bit stronger.
  • But if you're in Raid Finder, you are quite possibly alone with a bunch of strangers.
  • So, if you can Need, you probably do, because there's no time for discussion, some of the rollers may be AFK, and even if you piss someone off, you aren't likely to have to pay the social cost of doing so since you'll never see them again.
  • The highest roll wins.
  • Drama ensues.

Here's how the new Raid Finder system will work in Mists of Pandaria:


  • The boss dies.
  • The game automatically decides who won some loot, and gives those players a spec-appropriate item.
  • Some players may still get mad, but hopefully they are mad at the laws of probability and not at the rest of the raid.

So, realistically, that's really all you need to know to understand how it'll play out in-game. For those looking for more detail, here's what's happening behind the scenes:


  • The boss dies.
  • Each player has a chance to win loot, independent of the other players.
  • For each player who wins loot, the game randomly assigns them a spec-appropriate item from that boss's loot table. This subset contains only items that the game (meaning the designers in this case) thinks are appropriate for your class and current spec.
  • Notice that you aren't rolling Need or Greed. You don't have an option to Pass. The game just says "Take this."
  • You can't trade this item, or that would defeat the purpose of removing the social pressure on groups of strangers. If you don't want the item, you are free to vendor, delete, or disenchant it.

The big difference here is that instead of kill -> loot -> roll, the new system uses kill -> roll -> loot. The loot is not determined until the winners are determined. It's all automatic, and you're under no obligation to pass or roll — these choices no longer exist. The game decides who gets loot, not the players. The end. Nobody is going to be a callous jerk and take the item that you rightfully deserve. Nobody is going to try to talk you into trading an item to them because they are down on their luck and can't ever win a weapon. No DPS dude is going to ninja the tanking shield that you need for your guild to progress.

We understand some players are interested in off-spec or transmogrification loot, and we will consider future changes to the system to accommodate those desires. However, we're not sure fundamentally that Raid Finder is the best avenue for acquiring that loot. You would either need to take it from another player who actually desires it for their main spec, or a conversation would have to take place to make sure nobody else needed it more than you do. In other words, you would have to stop people from just rolling Need whenever they could. I've seen some suggestions that we allow an option for essentially "I'm happy to get loot beyond just what my main spec can use," and maybe that's the kind of approach we could take, but let's make sure the basic design works first. For now, there are other avenues, such as dungeons, faction gear, normal raids or older content to provide off-spec or cosmetic gear.

Here is a model I've seen some people say they want:


  • The boss dies.
  • I get the exact item or items I want.
  • I never have to come back and kill this boss again.
  • I politely ask Blizzard when there will be new content for me to run.

I added that, somewhat tongue in cheek, to point out that the intent of the new system is not to make killing bosses or getting loot more efficient, or to let you choose buffet-style which items you get. We like random loot being random, as long as it isn't so frustratingly random that you stop enjoying the experience. The intent of the new loot system is really to relieve social pressure on a group of random and anonymous strangers. We think it is reasonable for groups of friends, such as the typical raiding guild, to have a discussion about how to divvy up loot. That discussion is a tried and true RPG tradition going back to D&D or earlier. We don't think that is a reasonable expectation for Raid Finder, though.

The personal loot system will initially be used for Raid Finder and for world bosses. We want to use it for world bosses because we want it to be fairly easy to form PUGs to take down these bosses when they're up. If my raiding guild is about to take on a world boss, and some lonely hunter is asking to join the group (it's always a lonely hunter, isn't it?), it would be nice to be able to bring him on without worrying about that jerk taking loot away from me or my friends. We want to foster a "the more the merrier" attitude with world bosses.

This is why it's so important to us that the size of the group shouldn't matter. We don't want guilds to try to kill a world boss with the smallest number of players necessary in order to maximize loot per player. When everyone has their own chance at loot, why not make the group as large as you can? Note that you still have to be a member of the group that taps and kills the boss. We want to have a little bit of competition for world boss kills, especially between the Horde and the Alliance. We think that is part of the fun of world bosses; otherwise, why not just stick the gronn in a cave? (That sounds dirtier than I intended.) We don't want everyone in the zone to get credit just by lurking around. We want you to cooperate with other players, and we're trying to remove barriers to cooperation by eliminating loot drama.

Bonus Roll

We have one other new system that will use part of the personal loot model. This is what we're calling the bonus roll.

Once upon a time, raiders had to invest a lot of time and effort every week preparing for a raid. This felt kind of cool in the abstract because it built anticipation, rewarded players who prepared for raid night, and otherwise just added a little more ceremony to the act of entering the dragon's lair to seek glory and treasure. The reality is that you spent your time killing mobs to farm flask materials or gathering Whipper Root Tubers. The reality didn't match the fantasy and we eventually greatly minimized the need to farm consumables altogether. Of course, that led to another problem, as raiders would log on for raid nights, finish, and then have nothing to do the rest of the week. The bonus roll is intended to give those players something to do that is hopefully more enjoyable than grinding elementals or Blasted Lands boars. We want to see players out in the world doing stuff, and we want that stuff to be a little more interesting (if not downright fun) than farming mats.

The way it works is like this: We have two major Pandaren factions, the Elders and the Craftsmen. Completing daily quests and scenarios for each group earns you one of two currencies. The Craftsmen tokens are spent mostly on cosmetic items. The Elder tokens are spent mostly on power items. The intent here is to let players who want some optional content to be able to devote time to both Craftsmen and Elders, while more min-max focused players or players who don't want such a time commitment can stick to Elders. The Elder tokens can be used to purchase head enchants, some nice purple items, and the kind of gear you've come to expect from factions. However, they also sell an item called a Charm of Good Fortune. Imagine you can complete a quest once a week to buy one Charm for 25 Elder Tokens. You also might be able to save up a few charms, but you won't be able to hoard them until the next tier of content.

If you have one or more Charms of Good Fortune, then whenever you kill a raid boss (in Raid Finder, normal or heroic) then a new UI window will pop up asking if you want to spend your Charm on a bonus roll. If you click yes, then you'll instantly get another shot at that boss's loot table! You will always win something from the bonus roll, such as a pile of gold, gems, or flasks. However, you also have a small (but not miniscule) chance of receiving a piece of epic loot. As with the personal loot system, the item will always be something designed for your current spec. Also, just as with personal loot, the game doesn't analyze if you already have the item, if the item would be an upgrade for you, or if you prefer axes to swords or anything like that.

Most importantly, winning a bonus roll has no effect on what other players win on their bonus rolls or what the boss drops normally. If you have saved up several Charms (this will probably happen when you play but don't raid every week) then you can use one per boss, but you can't cash in multiples on a single boss kill. If you want to save up all of your Charms for the final boss because he (or she in the case of the mantid raid) drops weapons or whatever, that is your prerogative, but you'll only be able to spend one per kill. If you want to save up your Charms for heroic bosses, go for it.

Here is an example of per-person loot and the bonus roll in action:


  • Stan is a death knight.
  • Jim Bob is a warrior.
  • Naomi is a hunter.
  • The three friends run Raid Finder together and tackle Mogu'shan Vaults. They get matched with a bunch of random folks from across their region. On the fourth boss, the Council of Kings, the game decides that Jim Bob wins an item. Jim Bob is a Fury warrior, so the game is either going to give him a two-handed Strength axe or a Strength bracer, because those are the two Fury-appropriate items on the Council of Kings loot table (in this theoretical example). Regardless of what Jim Bob wins, Stan might also win the same items. Naomi won't ever be offered those items, because they aren't appropriate hunter loot. If she had gotten lucky and earned loot for the kill, it would have been hunter appropriate.
  • Let's say Naomi is frustrated because Bob and Stan both won loot and because the trinket she wants won't ever drop. So, she decides to use a Charm of Good Fortune. Let's say she gets lucky and the game decides that she won an item instead of gold, flasks, etc. (Thanks, game!) She might get the trinket she wants, or she might get an Agility neckpiece that is also on the Council of Kings loot table. Her winning an item doesn't affect Stan or Jim Bob or anyone else, even if they use their Charms as well.

Okay, we're almost done here, but I did want to mention two other relevant changes.

Area of Effect Looting

Yes, we are doing area looting. After killing a group of enemies, you may have a bunch of corpses lying around (perhaps because you went all Bladestorm on a bunch of hozen). If you loot one of the corpses, the loot window will include items from all of the nearby corpses for which you have loot rights. Some recent games have incorporated a similar feature, and it's one of those things that players just want in their MMO these days. It's already in and it works fine.

The Future of Valor

The second change I want to mention is that we plan to adjust the role of Valor points. Valor (or the various other names that the currency has had over the years) was originally added to WoW for two reasons: it helped to mitigate really bad luck, for those times when the boss just refused to drop the item you wanted, and it helped encourage players to stay with the group even if they didn't need anything off the next boss.

Over time, we have felt like Valor has taken on too prominent a role, to the point that it risks becoming more important than actual boss loot. This is particularly the case when the tier sets are available on the Valor vendors. We think killing dragons and ransacking their hoard is more epic than shopping at the magic armor store, so we want to shift back toward boss kills being the primary source of epic PvE gear.

In Mists of Pandaria, Valor will be used to power a new feature that allows you to increase the item level of your existing epic items. This means that each week, you can become a little more powerful, hopefully allowing you to kill that boss that has eluded you thus far. There will be a bit of a game in trying to decide when to upgrade your gear versus hoping for a new piece to drop from a raid boss, but our plan is that even heroic gear can be upgraded slightly in this way.

We won't allow you to upgrade Raid Finder gear so much that it becomes better than normal gear, but imagine if you can increase your item level by around eight points. At this time, we're thinking there won't be gear on the Valor vendors at all, but we'll see how that shakes out. Valor will come primarily from dungeons (including challenge modes) and scenarios. You might earn a little from daily quests and raiding as well, but that won't be as efficient.

Final Thoughts

That's a lot of information to absorb all at once I know, and I'm sure it will lead to dozens of questions. It'd be more helpful to us if you were to focus your discussion on how things will feel, and the basic rules of the system, instead of immediately leaping to the conclusion that you've figured out some exploit and ergo the whole thing is doomed to failure. We've stitched up a lot of the egregious loopholes already and the system is a little more complicated behind the scenes than I figured was worth getting into here.

Check it out in beta if you get the chance. Let us know how it feels. We have time to iterate and refine this stuff. Good luck on getting the loot you want, too... but not too quickly.

Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street is the lead systems designer of World of Warcraft. The first epic item he can recall getting was the Drillborer Disk.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Dev Watercooler - Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 524 Comments
  1. Syfy's Avatar
    And that Charlie Brown is how the retards aka Blizzard fucked up the loot system forever.
  1. psimana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by foolishned View Post
    Regardless of either system in your example, the other 4 warriors lose out on the drop - except in the current system where geared warriors could pass on the gear simply because they don't need it.

    What's your point?
    The other 4 warriors don't necessarily lose out just because you got something they could also use. You have nothing to do with their chance of getting that same piece.

    In today's LFR, a vanquisher tier token drops and there are 14 druid/dk/mage/rogue's in the group. Only one of those 14 is going to win that tier piece. Far too often the one who wins it already has it or better. Now that person gets whispers from 13 other people asking/hoping for that item. Far too often there is no reply, a reply saying that if something else drops that person needs he will consider a trade, or a reply saying that piece is going to cover his repair bill.

    In MoP's LFR, a vanquisher tier token is on the boss' loot table (assuming they are still doing tier that way) and there are 14 druid/dk/mage/rogue's in the group. If all goes well, then all 14 get one of those shiny tier pieces. Maybe 13 of them get a tier piece and one of them gets a ring. Could also be that none of the 14 get anything off that boss. In reality probably a few of them will get a tier piece and a few of them will get whatever other role relevant piece is on that boss' loot table.

    So not only does each person have the same chance of getting gear as the next guy, but multiple people will usually be getting gear that today goes to only 1 person. So for those who are concerned about not being able to pass so that 'the guy who really needs it get it', they should be pleased that multiple people who need it may be getting it.

    If you already have received a particular piece before and you cannot use it for offspec or for min/maxing with different enchants/gems/reforging, then gladly accept the gold a vendor will give you for that pretty purple piece.

    The actual implementation of what constitutes a win is going to determine the speed at which people will get gear. If it's to loose then bosses will really feel like loot pinatas. If its too tight then people will continue to groan about not getting that elusive piece they have been hoping they will get for the past 10 weeks. I cannot speculate at this point how the new system will affect the rate at which you can get a toon 'raid ready'. Hopefully it will feel more like it has been at the start of an expac rather than towards the end when loot is easily too easily attained.

    I am looking forward to not feeling like loot in LFR is multiple games of chance. First just getting the piece to drop, then hoping you win the roll, then hoping you can get whoever did win the roll and doesn't actually need the piece to give it to you. Now I can enjoy LFR more for it being something to do when I am bored with the bonus of getting a couple things in my bags at the end. Probably the best part about this change though... no waiting for loot roll to time out because some thought it would be better to just leave the raid without rolling than take the 2 extra seconds to hit pass on everything.
  1. tejlol's Avatar
    Wow this sounds awful.... this is just going to cause major issues and more arguing ..... but mostly aimed at blizz rather than the player.
  1. Difuid's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Syfy View Post
    And that Charlie Brown is how the retards aka Blizzard fucked up the loot system forever.
    For making everybody's chance to get loot from the LFR boss independent from others?

    I have a feeling that you have problems with comprehending the new loot system.


    About the über decked out warrior unable to pass loot for the others.. why would that warrior join an LFG raid in MoP for the first place?
    - LFR difficluty does not require it.
    - Valor to upgrade gear can be obtained from dungeons.
    - If somebody wants to act generous and pass on loot there are the normal and heroic difficulty raids for that, which will still use the current loot system.
  1. Thraenduil's Avatar
    First off i'll highlight one phrase from GC's post: "We think it is reasonable for groups of friends, such as the typical raiding guild, to have a discussion about how to divvy up loot. That discussion is a tried and true RPG tradition going back to D&D or earlier. We don't think that is a reasonable expectation for Raid Finder, though."Here developers admit that people who don't know each other are unable to talk things out and help each other. In other words players in LFR usually are selfish pricks who don't give rat's &%% about other people. There are some considerate people too, but they are a dime in a dozen.After reading through the comments i have picked 2 main points people are unsatisfied with the new loot system. 1: I will get same item over and over again if i happen to win in loot roll (even though boss might not have anything else you can benefit from) 2: I can't give my duplicate item to someone who didn't win in loot rollAbout first one: People are used to seeing different loot drop from bosses and are feeling rejected by system which says " you can only get these items and nothing else". Like kids in candy store with parents who say you can only pick lollipop instead of choco bar. Removing this limiter in LFR would mean you are guaranteed to get any item from boss' loot table and might never get the thing you want. Holy priest would be stuck with dps staff and tank helm he or she won't need.But if that holy priest could trade those items to people who need them, problem would be solved. THAT brings us to point 2. Priest can't do it even if he or she wanted. This eliminates people using LFR as a fail-safe way to get loot they want for themself or for their friends. If Point 1 is happening, earlier holy priest knows that item he or she wants will drop to some other healer who wins loot roll. You just need to buy it if that healer won't need it. Any class can do the same 'cause we know someone will win that piece we want.("if winner really needs it, we bitch about it 'cause our loot is more important than others' ", is what selfish people think)This is why Point 2 is implemented, to prevent this behavior. But if Point 1 is'nt in place, having Point 2 loses some of it's purpose. If we don't know beforehand what item each raid member will get from loot roll (like that holy priest) we don't know who to ask for trade. Point 1 being off and people getting bunch of random loot from loot table is a start of mayhem. Healers whine that tank gets Int-bracers, dps whine healers getting swords and axes and so on... I hope i made some clarifications about new loot system and why it's being implemented. Feel free correct me if you find some errors in my logic.
  1. Scathis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderpants View Post
    Excellent system,now we wont have people needing on everything then trying to swap stuff after.
    Everyone will still need on everyting.

    This system will not remove the ninjas, but instead make everyone a ninja.

    They will have 4 people win items regardless if they need or not. And if a boss drops 2 items for 1 spec fat chance you have a 1/2 chance for the item you really want.

    The current system also makes it so that the better gear people have the bigger your chance becomes. In the MoP system your chance of getting that tier will be X% first week and last week of the patch. In the current system your chance will improve every week as people get lucky/VP.

    Blizzard will screw this up as everything else, GG
  1. Thraenduil's Avatar
    First off i'll highlight one phrase from GC's post:

    "We think it is reasonable for groups of friends, such as the typical raiding guild, to have a discussion about how to divvy up loot. That discussion is a tried and true RPG tradition going back to D&D or earlier. We don't think that is a reasonable expectation for Raid Finder, though."

    Here developers admit that people who don't know each other are unable to talk things out and help each other. In other words players in LFR usually are selfish pricks who don't give rat's &%% about other people. There are some considerate people too, but they are a dime in a dozen.

    After reading through the comments i have picked 2 main points people are unsatisfied with the new loot system.

    1: I will get same item over and over again if i happen to win in loot roll (even though boss might not have anything else you can benefit from)
    2: I can't give my duplicate item to someone who didn't win in loot roll

    About first one: People are used to seeing different loot drop from bosses and are feeling rejected by system which says " you can only get these items and nothing else". Like kids in candy store with parents who say you can only pick lollipop instead of choco bar. Removing this limiter in LFR would mean you are guaranteed to get any item from boss' loot table and might never get the thing you want. Holy priest would be stuck with dps staff and tank helm he or she won't need.

    But if that holy priest could trade those items to people who need them, problem would be solved. THAT brings us to point 2. Priest can't do it even if he or she wanted. This eliminates people using LFR as a fail-safe way to get loot they want for themself or for their friends.

    If Point 1 is happening, earlier holy priest knows that item he or she wants will drop to some other healer who wins loot roll. You just need to buy it if that healer won't need it. Any class can do the same 'cause we know someone will win that piece we want.("if winner really needs it, we bitch about it 'cause our loot is more important than others' ", is what selfish people think)

    This is why Point 2 is implemented, to prevent this behavior. But if Point 1 is'nt in place, having Point 2 loses some of it's purpose. If we don't know beforehand what item each raid member will get from loot roll (like that holy priest) we don't know who to ask for trade. Point 1 being off and people getting bunch of random loot from loot table is a start of mayhem. Healers whine that tank gets Int-bracers, dps whine healers getting swords and axes and so on...

    I hope i made some clarifications about new loot system and why it's being implemented. Feel free correct me if you find some errors in my logic.

    I put this up again with proper form. sorry for earlier wall of text

    i made a mistake in last paragraph. i meant to say "not having Point 2"
  1. Sarevokcz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    Why? This is only LFR, and frankly, it is a better system than it is now.

    The odds of 25 people all getting loot-valid rolls is gonna be huge.

    It also means that people with the item you want already, or better gear even, CANNOT impact you getting the time. How is that bad? I've lost Gurthalaks and Souldrinkers to Warriors and DKs that have 1-2 of them already. There is a TON of inherent problems right now with the system, that this fixes.
    I dont get it, what about the new system is better? people can still win items, even if they already have multiple copies of said item. admittedly, not allowing trading is a step in the right direction, as is winning only one item per boss, but those things could have been done with the old system, too. But the bad thing is the fact, that you cant even pass items, if you dont need them. If the system cant even have people pass on items/rolls, then the system is terrible in my eyes. Im gona run random HCs or World bosses with guildies and cant pass, even if I know I cant get anything from the boss we just killed? and have actually a change to win gold over someone else getting loot? Are you serious? I dont care about gold and the rest of the raid is better of not having me along, if they want to maximize gains from the boss, that doesnt promote having more people in raid

    And on top of that, we will have to farm some charms to slightly increase chance of the LFR bosses giving us some semi useless stuff?

    And on top of all that, valor gear is gonna be gone? 10man raiders are supposed to get the gear... where exactly? It took me over two months to get 4piece bonus. And if they continue with so few bosses per tier, the bosses will have their loottables expanded even more for items, that didnt drop now (necks, cloaks, relics etc) it is gonna be disaster.

    This system is gonna be a failure, reason why similar system sort of works in SWTOR is because the bosses there drop like 9 items for 16man raid, not 4 items for 25 people, all it does in wow is slow the gear progression even more, not to the point 10mans have to deal with the issues, but close
  1. Pilfer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    I dont get it, what about the new system is better? people can still win items, even if they already have multiple copies of said item. admittedly, not allowing trading is a step in the right direction, as is winning only one item per boss, but those things could have been done with the old system, too. But the bad thing is the fact, that you cant even pass items, if you dont need them. If the system cant even have people pass on items/rolls, then the system is terrible in my eyes. Im gona run random HCs or World bosses with guildies and cant pass, even if I know I cant get anything from the boss we just killed? and have actually a change to win gold over someone else getting loot? Are you serious? I dont care about gold and the rest of the raid is better of not having me along, if they want to maximize gains from the boss, that doesnt promote having more people in raid

    And on top of that, we will have to farm some charms to slightly increase chance of the LFR bosses giving us some semi useless stuff?

    And on top of all that, valor gear is gonna be gone? 10man raiders are supposed to get the gear... where exactly? It took me over two months to get 4piece bonus. And if they continue with so few bosses per tier, the bosses will have their loottables expanded even more for items, that didnt drop now (necks, cloaks, relics etc) it is gonna be disaster.

    This system is gonna be a failure, reason why similar system sort of works in SWTOR is because the bosses there drop like 9 items for 16man raid, not 4 items for 25 people, all it does in wow is slow the gear progression even more, not to the point 10mans have to deal with the issues, but close
    *sigh* It was very clearly stated that your roll ahs no bearing on anyone else's getting loot. So it does not matter that you can't pass. You getting and item to vendor does not effect your friend's chances of getting the item he wants.
  1. innee's Avatar
    Overall the changes seem cool - I personally can see a lot of QQing coming up from people who get gold on a bonus roll, but it'll do us all good to remind us that random means random - and at least we're getting something. I know the mechanism for the rolling on loot isn't gone into in detail - because basically that's irrelevant, but given human nature I'd like to suggest my (obviously brilliant) idea on how to deal with minimising aggro. Yeah, getting loot is awesome - but tbh most people look forward to a raid hoping that the 'X' they have been drooling over from boss 'Y' drops, and that they win the roll. Taking away the moment when the boss loot flashes up or gets /rw by the ML is anticlimactic enough without taking away the second element, the roll. It'll become a chore to have to down the bosses, and people will feel that they might as well just be awarded a random epic a week for all the skill it's taking to LFR them (I really mean no offence by that, it's just how it is). So give some form of input into the process please - just that instant of clicking on the button will make it feel like there's some input - some undeniable (and spurious) chance for fate/kharma/the worship of the universe for the imba skills shown on that boss fight by that player - to influence the outcome and give that shiny that is sooo richly deserved. Something like:Boss diesUI flashes up giving you 5 seconds to click to roll - if you don't click it in 5 seconds it rolls for youThe rolls happen, and each person sees on the UI what their roll was (and the other people they joined with as a group)Any rolls over 80 appear in raid chat and they get a lootIf there are less than 3 (or whatever number Blizz like) 'winners' then the next highest scores are shown, and rewarded, until there are 3 winners.(I know 3 seems low, but as on some bosses there will be a silly amount of players randomly rolling over 80 it'll still be generous, I'd say there ought to be an upper cap as well - but that would ruin Blizz's plan for no-one being affected by others. And that isn't the point of this reply anyhow.)This way people will have some form of input, it won't feel quite so mechanical - we play the game for fun (and loots) and although the new changes look great they do take away some of the dramatic impact of the boss looting and hence the reason to raid. So, it won't affect the roll - but deep inside I'll be convinced it will - and I'll be able to laugh at my friend's rolls being even worse than mine (as we grouped together), or GZ them through clenched teeth when they get that elusive high roll I am sure is out there for me one week ^^.If it becomes too efficient a system (and I mean in handling the process, not in obtaining gear) then it becomes a sequence of 'don't stand in fire, shoot boss, check bags at end' weeklies we have to do, rather than something to anticipate and enjoy with guildies and friends.
  1. nameuser's Avatar
    OK their copying from GW2... again -.-
  1. Arganaut's Avatar
    Yep like these changes.

    LFR loot changes were without in need of refinement.

    The valor point change is a good one too and step in the right direction. The sooner Blizzard can get away from this notion that the only way to progress your character is to continously seek better loot then the better the game will be. Along with re-forging this let's get back to good gameplay, storylines and content, socialability and skill. Not grind fests for justice or valor and running LFR for loot until your eyes bleed.

    Next I want to see greater depth to the class talent system - oh wait...
  1. Scathis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by nameuser View Post
    OK their copying from GW2... again -.-
    Bad thing is they copy bad models instead of good ones.

    All blizzard have to is make a script that eliminated the "role bonus" for people who already have a better item.

    Scenario:

    Boss dies.

    Drops Leather bracers with intel and spirit.

    Rogue - cant use = greed only option.

    Balance druid - can use = Need and Greed available, he clicks need and system scans his inventory and equipt items for Ilvl and spec if his ilvl is Lower than the drops = 100 bonus roll.

    Resto druid - can use = Need and Greed availabe, he clicks need and system scans his inventory and equiot items for ilvl and spec i lvl is bigger = no roll bonus.


    All blizzard will have to do is add a value to LFR items with a "Spec" value.
  1. robinbladh's Avatar
    Thoes LFR Changes is awesome
  1. psimana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathis View Post
    Resto druid - can use = Need and Greed availabe, he clicks need and system scans his inventory and equiot items for ilvl and spec i lvl is bigger = no roll bonus.


    All blizzard will have to do is add a value to LFR items with a "Spec" value.
    Whoa now hold on.. 3 piece tier 384 + 1 non-tier 397 is not necessarily better than 4 piece tier 384. Take tanks for instance, their 4 piece bonus is more valuable than 3+1 non-tier so I wouldn't want my tanks to get shafted on 4 piece bonus because their legs were 397. Bad idea.
  1. kladd's Avatar
    This is only for lfr right? master looter etc will still exist in regular raids with let's say your guild?
  1. mikencarly's Avatar
    just fyi all mmos copy each other most of the stuff is the same for all mmos blizzard would be stupid not to do this.
  1. creb99's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathis View Post
    Everyone will still need on everyting.

    This system will not remove the ninjas, but instead make everyone a ninja.

    They will have 4 people win items regardless if they need or not. And if a boss drops 2 items for 1 spec fat chance you have a 1/2 chance for the item you really want.

    The current system also makes it so that the better gear people have the bigger your chance becomes. In the MoP system your chance of getting that tier will be X% first week and last week of the patch. In the current system your chance will improve every week as people get lucky/VP.

    Blizzard will screw this up as everything else, GG
    But, but... I thought that everybody has a roll of the dice without any affect on everybody else's rolls? And where do you get the 4 people from?

    As I understand it, everybody rolls and if you roll higher that the cut-off point set by the game, you win a piece. Rolls from the other players have ZERO impact. It is as if you are playing solo. There cannot be any ninjas if you play solo......
  1. frequency's Avatar
    Ok I'm going try and break this down even further for our folks that are having problems understanding this.

    Currently in LFR:
    • Boss dies.
    • Loot pops up for Need / Greed / DE / Pass.
    • Everyone picks an option.
    • Each piece of loot is rolled on and given to the winners

    Example:
    5 man group
    Boss Loot Table Contains:
    • Caster Ring
    • Tank Weapon
    • Helm for Each Token
    • Caster Weapon
    • Physical DPS Trinket


    Boss drops:
    • 1 Caster Ring
    • 1 Tank Weapon


    Code:
                         Type of Roll - Roll
                         Caster Ring      |     Tank Weapon
      Player 1   -       Pass             |     Greed   - 3
      Player 2   -       Need   - 43      |     Need    - 46
      Player 3   -       Need   - 32      |     Greed   - 39
      Player 4   -       Need   - 68      |     Greed   - 67
      Player 5   -       Greed  - 97      |     Greed   - 78
    Break down of Ring Rolls:
    Before Rolls each player has a 20% chance of winning the item.
    Player 1 Passes and Increases the chance if winning for the other players to 25%
    Player 5 rolls Greed vs 3 Needs. Player 5 has a 0% chance of winning since Need rolls > Greed rolls
    3 players that rolled Need have a 33% chance of winning the ring.

    Break down of Weapon Rolls:
    Before Rolls each player has a 20% chance of winning the item.
    Player 2 rolls Need vs 4 Greeds.
    Player 2 now has a 100% chance to win where the other players no have a 0% chance.

    As you can see each roll or non roll increased or decreased the chance of winning for the other players in the group.


    Under the new system:
    • Boss Dies.
    • Everyone Rolls.
    • If you roll higher than the magic number you win loot, if you roll lower you do not.
      • Let's assume the magic number is 83.
      • If you roll higher than 83 you win loot
      • If you roll lower than 83 you do no win loot.


    Scenario 1 -
    Code:
                                   Rolls
    	Player 1(Tank)          -  40
    	Player 2(Healer)        -  87
    	Player 3(Caster DPS)    -  100
    	Player 4(Phys DPS)      -  9
    	Player 5(Phys DPS)      -  96
    Each Roll made was independet of the other and gave each players a 17% chance of winning loot.
    Player 2, Player 3 and Player 5 have rolled higher than 83 and therefore are eligible for loot.
    Player 2 will recieve either the Caster Ring, Caster Weapon, or Helm Token
    Player 3 will recieve either the Caster Ring, Caster Weapon, or Helm Token
    Player 5 will recieve either the Helm Token or Physical DPS Trinket

    Scenario 2 -
    Code:
                                   Rolls
    	Player 1(Tank)          -  80
    	Player 2(Healer)        -  87
    	Player 3(Caster DPS)    -  99
    	Player 4(Phys DPS)      -  90
    	Player 5(Phys DPS)      -  96
    Each Roll made was independet of the other and gave each players a 17% chance of winning loot.
    All Players have rolled higher than 83 and therefore are eligible for loot.
    Player 1 will recieve either the Tank Weapon or Helm Token
    Player 2 will recieve either the Caster Ring, Caster Weapon, or Helm Token
    Player 3 will recieve either the Caster Ring, Caster Weapon, or Helm Token
    Player 4 will recieve either the Helm Token or Physical DPS Trinket
    Player 5 will recieve either the Helm Token or Physical DPS Trinket
  1. foxximcleod's Avatar
    I raid on a Druid, I have two viable specs- feral dps and healer. I switch to whichever my raid leader needs for a particular boss fight. Now let's say we are fighting a boss that drops gear my feral set needs, but my raid leader needs me healing for this fight. In this scenario I wouldn't get a shot at getting feral gear since I was in heal spec at the time the game rolled for me.I would like to see it set up where you tell it which specs you want it to include for your possible loot, using the druid again as an example:Feral tank - noFeral dps - yesHealer - yesSpellcaster dps - no

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