MMO-Champion - Dev Watercooler - Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained
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Dev Watercooler - Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Hey, how about that landslide of Mists of Pandaria information? It has taken a few days, and will probably take a few more, for the nuance of everything to really sink in. One of the topics we've been getting lots of questions about is the crazy new loot model we're introducing in Mists. We've answered several related questions in the forums, but thought it might be prudent to just put all the information in one place.

I should clarify that the systems we're introducing are actually pretty simple in practice. I'm only going into a fair amount of detail because those are the kinds of questions we are getting. You don't have to understand all the particulars to participate, and we're certain that it will just all make sense once you are experiencing it in-game instead of hearing it described (that whole "show, don't tell" thing). Let's begin:

Personal Loot

Here is how looting works in today's Raid Finder groups:


  • The boss dies.
  • The game randomly decides which items off of the boss's loot table drop.
  • The group rolls Need, Greed, or Pass on each item.
  • If you were raiding with a group of friends, you might discuss who should get each item. Even if you ultimately lost, hopefully you are happy that a friend got an upgrade and that your group as a whole is now a little bit stronger.
  • But if you're in Raid Finder, you are quite possibly alone with a bunch of strangers.
  • So, if you can Need, you probably do, because there's no time for discussion, some of the rollers may be AFK, and even if you piss someone off, you aren't likely to have to pay the social cost of doing so since you'll never see them again.
  • The highest roll wins.
  • Drama ensues.

Here's how the new Raid Finder system will work in Mists of Pandaria:


  • The boss dies.
  • The game automatically decides who won some loot, and gives those players a spec-appropriate item.
  • Some players may still get mad, but hopefully they are mad at the laws of probability and not at the rest of the raid.

So, realistically, that's really all you need to know to understand how it'll play out in-game. For those looking for more detail, here's what's happening behind the scenes:


  • The boss dies.
  • Each player has a chance to win loot, independent of the other players.
  • For each player who wins loot, the game randomly assigns them a spec-appropriate item from that boss's loot table. This subset contains only items that the game (meaning the designers in this case) thinks are appropriate for your class and current spec.
  • Notice that you aren't rolling Need or Greed. You don't have an option to Pass. The game just says "Take this."
  • You can't trade this item, or that would defeat the purpose of removing the social pressure on groups of strangers. If you don't want the item, you are free to vendor, delete, or disenchant it.

The big difference here is that instead of kill -> loot -> roll, the new system uses kill -> roll -> loot. The loot is not determined until the winners are determined. It's all automatic, and you're under no obligation to pass or roll — these choices no longer exist. The game decides who gets loot, not the players. The end. Nobody is going to be a callous jerk and take the item that you rightfully deserve. Nobody is going to try to talk you into trading an item to them because they are down on their luck and can't ever win a weapon. No DPS dude is going to ninja the tanking shield that you need for your guild to progress.

We understand some players are interested in off-spec or transmogrification loot, and we will consider future changes to the system to accommodate those desires. However, we're not sure fundamentally that Raid Finder is the best avenue for acquiring that loot. You would either need to take it from another player who actually desires it for their main spec, or a conversation would have to take place to make sure nobody else needed it more than you do. In other words, you would have to stop people from just rolling Need whenever they could. I've seen some suggestions that we allow an option for essentially "I'm happy to get loot beyond just what my main spec can use," and maybe that's the kind of approach we could take, but let's make sure the basic design works first. For now, there are other avenues, such as dungeons, faction gear, normal raids or older content to provide off-spec or cosmetic gear.

Here is a model I've seen some people say they want:


  • The boss dies.
  • I get the exact item or items I want.
  • I never have to come back and kill this boss again.
  • I politely ask Blizzard when there will be new content for me to run.

I added that, somewhat tongue in cheek, to point out that the intent of the new system is not to make killing bosses or getting loot more efficient, or to let you choose buffet-style which items you get. We like random loot being random, as long as it isn't so frustratingly random that you stop enjoying the experience. The intent of the new loot system is really to relieve social pressure on a group of random and anonymous strangers. We think it is reasonable for groups of friends, such as the typical raiding guild, to have a discussion about how to divvy up loot. That discussion is a tried and true RPG tradition going back to D&D or earlier. We don't think that is a reasonable expectation for Raid Finder, though.

The personal loot system will initially be used for Raid Finder and for world bosses. We want to use it for world bosses because we want it to be fairly easy to form PUGs to take down these bosses when they're up. If my raiding guild is about to take on a world boss, and some lonely hunter is asking to join the group (it's always a lonely hunter, isn't it?), it would be nice to be able to bring him on without worrying about that jerk taking loot away from me or my friends. We want to foster a "the more the merrier" attitude with world bosses.

This is why it's so important to us that the size of the group shouldn't matter. We don't want guilds to try to kill a world boss with the smallest number of players necessary in order to maximize loot per player. When everyone has their own chance at loot, why not make the group as large as you can? Note that you still have to be a member of the group that taps and kills the boss. We want to have a little bit of competition for world boss kills, especially between the Horde and the Alliance. We think that is part of the fun of world bosses; otherwise, why not just stick the gronn in a cave? (That sounds dirtier than I intended.) We don't want everyone in the zone to get credit just by lurking around. We want you to cooperate with other players, and we're trying to remove barriers to cooperation by eliminating loot drama.

Bonus Roll

We have one other new system that will use part of the personal loot model. This is what we're calling the bonus roll.

Once upon a time, raiders had to invest a lot of time and effort every week preparing for a raid. This felt kind of cool in the abstract because it built anticipation, rewarded players who prepared for raid night, and otherwise just added a little more ceremony to the act of entering the dragon's lair to seek glory and treasure. The reality is that you spent your time killing mobs to farm flask materials or gathering Whipper Root Tubers. The reality didn't match the fantasy and we eventually greatly minimized the need to farm consumables altogether. Of course, that led to another problem, as raiders would log on for raid nights, finish, and then have nothing to do the rest of the week. The bonus roll is intended to give those players something to do that is hopefully more enjoyable than grinding elementals or Blasted Lands boars. We want to see players out in the world doing stuff, and we want that stuff to be a little more interesting (if not downright fun) than farming mats.

The way it works is like this: We have two major Pandaren factions, the Elders and the Craftsmen. Completing daily quests and scenarios for each group earns you one of two currencies. The Craftsmen tokens are spent mostly on cosmetic items. The Elder tokens are spent mostly on power items. The intent here is to let players who want some optional content to be able to devote time to both Craftsmen and Elders, while more min-max focused players or players who don't want such a time commitment can stick to Elders. The Elder tokens can be used to purchase head enchants, some nice purple items, and the kind of gear you've come to expect from factions. However, they also sell an item called a Charm of Good Fortune. Imagine you can complete a quest once a week to buy one Charm for 25 Elder Tokens. You also might be able to save up a few charms, but you won't be able to hoard them until the next tier of content.

If you have one or more Charms of Good Fortune, then whenever you kill a raid boss (in Raid Finder, normal or heroic) then a new UI window will pop up asking if you want to spend your Charm on a bonus roll. If you click yes, then you'll instantly get another shot at that boss's loot table! You will always win something from the bonus roll, such as a pile of gold, gems, or flasks. However, you also have a small (but not miniscule) chance of receiving a piece of epic loot. As with the personal loot system, the item will always be something designed for your current spec. Also, just as with personal loot, the game doesn't analyze if you already have the item, if the item would be an upgrade for you, or if you prefer axes to swords or anything like that.

Most importantly, winning a bonus roll has no effect on what other players win on their bonus rolls or what the boss drops normally. If you have saved up several Charms (this will probably happen when you play but don't raid every week) then you can use one per boss, but you can't cash in multiples on a single boss kill. If you want to save up all of your Charms for the final boss because he (or she in the case of the mantid raid) drops weapons or whatever, that is your prerogative, but you'll only be able to spend one per kill. If you want to save up your Charms for heroic bosses, go for it.

Here is an example of per-person loot and the bonus roll in action:


  • Stan is a death knight.
  • Jim Bob is a warrior.
  • Naomi is a hunter.
  • The three friends run Raid Finder together and tackle Mogu'shan Vaults. They get matched with a bunch of random folks from across their region. On the fourth boss, the Council of Kings, the game decides that Jim Bob wins an item. Jim Bob is a Fury warrior, so the game is either going to give him a two-handed Strength axe or a Strength bracer, because those are the two Fury-appropriate items on the Council of Kings loot table (in this theoretical example). Regardless of what Jim Bob wins, Stan might also win the same items. Naomi won't ever be offered those items, because they aren't appropriate hunter loot. If she had gotten lucky and earned loot for the kill, it would have been hunter appropriate.
  • Let's say Naomi is frustrated because Bob and Stan both won loot and because the trinket she wants won't ever drop. So, she decides to use a Charm of Good Fortune. Let's say she gets lucky and the game decides that she won an item instead of gold, flasks, etc. (Thanks, game!) She might get the trinket she wants, or she might get an Agility neckpiece that is also on the Council of Kings loot table. Her winning an item doesn't affect Stan or Jim Bob or anyone else, even if they use their Charms as well.

Okay, we're almost done here, but I did want to mention two other relevant changes.

Area of Effect Looting

Yes, we are doing area looting. After killing a group of enemies, you may have a bunch of corpses lying around (perhaps because you went all Bladestorm on a bunch of hozen). If you loot one of the corpses, the loot window will include items from all of the nearby corpses for which you have loot rights. Some recent games have incorporated a similar feature, and it's one of those things that players just want in their MMO these days. It's already in and it works fine.

The Future of Valor

The second change I want to mention is that we plan to adjust the role of Valor points. Valor (or the various other names that the currency has had over the years) was originally added to WoW for two reasons: it helped to mitigate really bad luck, for those times when the boss just refused to drop the item you wanted, and it helped encourage players to stay with the group even if they didn't need anything off the next boss.

Over time, we have felt like Valor has taken on too prominent a role, to the point that it risks becoming more important than actual boss loot. This is particularly the case when the tier sets are available on the Valor vendors. We think killing dragons and ransacking their hoard is more epic than shopping at the magic armor store, so we want to shift back toward boss kills being the primary source of epic PvE gear.

In Mists of Pandaria, Valor will be used to power a new feature that allows you to increase the item level of your existing epic items. This means that each week, you can become a little more powerful, hopefully allowing you to kill that boss that has eluded you thus far. There will be a bit of a game in trying to decide when to upgrade your gear versus hoping for a new piece to drop from a raid boss, but our plan is that even heroic gear can be upgraded slightly in this way.

We won't allow you to upgrade Raid Finder gear so much that it becomes better than normal gear, but imagine if you can increase your item level by around eight points. At this time, we're thinking there won't be gear on the Valor vendors at all, but we'll see how that shakes out. Valor will come primarily from dungeons (including challenge modes) and scenarios. You might earn a little from daily quests and raiding as well, but that won't be as efficient.

Final Thoughts

That's a lot of information to absorb all at once I know, and I'm sure it will lead to dozens of questions. It'd be more helpful to us if you were to focus your discussion on how things will feel, and the basic rules of the system, instead of immediately leaping to the conclusion that you've figured out some exploit and ergo the whole thing is doomed to failure. We've stitched up a lot of the egregious loopholes already and the system is a little more complicated behind the scenes than I figured was worth getting into here.

Check it out in beta if you get the chance. Let us know how it feels. We have time to iterate and refine this stuff. Good luck on getting the loot you want, too... but not too quickly.

Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street is the lead systems designer of World of Warcraft. The first epic item he can recall getting was the Drillborer Disk.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Dev Watercooler - Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 524 Comments
  1. crion's Avatar
    Major Changes between the loot rules now and proposed loot rules that are not specifically listed in GC's Post:
    1) Players can win a maximum of 1 piece of loot per boss (no more winning trinket + token or some other combination)
    2) No more trading (or selling) drops by people who need nothing
    3) No more beggars PMing to try to get drops that "they need more"

    -{Example 1}-: ELEMENTAL SHAMAN on SPINE OF DEATHWING - 5 agi users in raid

    Current System:
    -Boss dies.
    -Loot drops. As an enhance shaman, you have only 1 piece of gear out of 10 (the Wrath of Unchaining agi trinket) that is for your role. Since LFR drops 2 trinkets you have a 20% chance of seeing loot that actually benefits you (assuming you don't already have it)
    -Everyone (let's say there are 5 agi users total in raid) who can use it rolls Need, so you have a 20% chance of being the person to win it.

    >>Your overall chances of getting the item you need off of Spine of Deathwing in this scenario = 20% x 20% = 4%
    >>The chances of getting loot in this system change in 2 ways a) ratio of gear that is useful for you to overall loot table b) number of other people who will roll against you.

    LFR Loot System (with an assumption of internal roll threshold deciding loot - threshold set at 100 - 4/25 = 84 in keeping with the probability that ON AVERAGE 4 of the 25 raiders will win)**:
    -Boss dies.
    -Server does an internal roll that chooses who wins loot. You have a 16% chance of getting loot.
    -Since you only have 1 item that is good for your spec, you have a 100% chance of winning the trinket if the system chooses you to win loot.

    >>Your overall chances of getting the item you need off of Spine of Deathwing in this scenario = 16% x 100% = 10%
    >>The chances of getting loot in this system change in 2 ways a) ratio of gear that is useful for you to overall loot table b) the internal roll's threshold value for deciding winners.
    **NOTE: In this system, having more or less than 4 winners is very possible

    LFR Loot System (with an assumption that "n" number of players win loot off a given boss)
    -Boss dies.
    -Server does an internal roll that chooses who wins loot. Let's say there's in innate rule that 4 people get loot per boss (in keeping with current LFR loot drop-rate). This means you have a 4/25 chance of being a winner... which is 16%.
    -Since you only have 1 item that is good for your spec, you have a 100% chance of winning the trinket if the system chooses you to win loot.

    >>Your overall chances of getting the item you need off of Spine of Deathwing in this scenario = 16% x 100% = 16%
    >>The chances of getting loot in this system change in 1 way a) ratio of gear that is useful for you to overall loot table b) the value of "n"
    -{Example 2}-: DISC PRIEST ON ULTRAXION - 10 Conqueror token users / 5 priests/druids in raid - Chest tokens are rated at 50% drop chance, in keeping with the current loot system -- Only upgrades are Chest Token and Offhand

    Current System:
    -Boss dies.
    -Loot drops. As an Disc Priest, you have only 2 pieces of gear out of 33 that is a current upgrade. Since LFR drops 2 chestpieces tokens and 2 of anything on the table, you have a (33% + 33% + 3% + 3%) = 72 % chance of seeing the chest token and a (3% + 3%) = 6% chance of seeing the offhand.
    -For the tokens, 1/10 chance of winning each one*. That means you have a 10% x 7.2% chance of winning a token in this example.
    -For the Offhand, you have a 1/5 chance of winning*. That means you have a 20% x 6% = 1.2% chance of winning the Offhand in this example.

    >>Your overall chances of getting the item you need off of Spine of Deathwing in this scenario = 7.2% + 1.2% = 8.4%
    >>The chances of getting loot in this system change in 2 ways a) ratio of gear that is useful for you to overall loot table b) number of other people who will roll against you.
    *This probability is actually a bit more complicated because of the patch disallowing a person to win the same loot twice on one boss.

    LFR Loot System (with an assumption of internal roll threshold deciding loot - threshold set at 100 - 4/25 = 84 in keeping with the probability that ON AVERAGE 4 of the 25 raiders will win):
    -Boss dies.
    -Server does an internal roll that chooses who wins loot. You have a 16% chance of getting loot.
    -You only want 2 of the 8 items that are deemed good for your spec. However, since chest tokens are weighted more heavily for this boss, you have a (50 + 50/8) = 56.25% chance of winning a chest token and a 50% / 8 = 6.25% chance of winning the offhand.

    >>Your overall chances of getting the item you need off of Spine of Deathwing in this scenario = 16% x 62.5% = 10%
    >>The chances of getting loot in this system change in 2 ways a) ratio of gear that is useful for you to overall loot table b) the internal roll's threshold value for deciding winners.
    NOTE: In this system, having more or less than 4 winners is very possible

    LFR Loot System (with an assumption that "n" number of players win loot off a given boss)
    -Boss dies.
    -Server does an internal roll that chooses who wins loot. Let's say there's in innate rule that 4 people get loot per boss (in keeping with current LFR loot drop-rate). This means you have a 4/25 chance of being a winner... which is 16%.
    -You only want 2 of the 8 items that are deemed good for your spec. However, since chest tokens are weighted more heavily for this boss, you have a (50 + 50/8) = 56.25% chance of winning a chest token and a 50% / 8 = 6.25% chance of winning the offhand.

    >>Your overall chances of getting the item you need off of Spine of Deathwing in this scenario = 16% x 62.5% = 10%
    >>The chances of getting loot in this system change in 1 way a) ratio of gear that is useful for you to overall loot table b) the value of "n"
    -{Example 3}-: DISC PRIEST ON ULTRAXION - 10 Conqueror token users / 10 casters priests/druids in raid - Chest tokens are rated at 50% drop chance, in keeping with the current loot system -- Fresh toon that needs all 8 items.

    Current System:
    -Boss dies.
    -Loot drops. As an Disc Priest, you have only 2 pieces of gear out of 33 that is a current upgrade. Since LFR drops 2 chestpieces tokens and 2 of anything on the table, you have a (33% + 33% + 3% + 3%) = 72 % chance of seeing the chest token and a (21 + 21%) = 42% chance of seeing the offhand.
    -For the tokens, 1/10 chance of winning each one*. That means you have a 10% x 72 = 7.2% chance of winning a token in this example.
    -For the Offhand, you have a 1/10 chance of winning*. That means you have a 10% x 42% = 4.2% chance of winning the Offhand in this example.

    >>Your overall chances of getting the item you need off of Spine of Deathwing in this scenario = 7.2% + 4.2% = 11.4%
    >>The chances of getting loot in this system change in 2 ways a) ratio of gear that is useful for you to overall loot table b) number of other people who will roll against you.
    *This probability is actually a bit more complicated because of the patch disallowing a person to win the same loot twice on one boss.

    LFR Loot System (with an assumption of internal roll threshold deciding loot - threshold set at 100 - 4/25 = 84 in keeping with the probability that ON AVERAGE 4 of the 25 raiders will win):
    -Boss dies.
    -Server does an internal roll that chooses who wins loot. You have a 16% chance of getting loot.
    -Since you need any and all pieces from this boss, you have a 100% chance of getting something you need.

    >>Your overall chances of getting the item you need off of Spine of Deathwing in this scenario = 16% x 100% = 16%
    >>The chances of getting loot in this system change in 2 ways a) ratio of gear that is useful for you to overall loot table b) the internal roll's threshold value for deciding winners.
    NOTE: In this system, having more or less than 4 winners is very possible

    LFR Loot System (with an assumption that "n" number of players win loot off a given boss)
    -Boss dies.
    -Server does an internal roll that chooses who wins loot. Let's say there's in innate rule that 4 people get loot per boss (in keeping with current LFR loot drop-rate). This means you have a 4/25 chance of being a winner... which is 16%.
    -Since you need any and all pieces from this boss, you have a 100% chance of getting something you need.

    >>Your overall chances of getting the item you need off of Spine of Deathwing in this scenario = 16% x 100% = 16%
    >>The chances of getting loot in this system change in 1 way a) ratio of gear that is useful for you to overall loot table b) the value of "n"
  1. Idletime's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by foxximcleod View Post
    I raid on a Druid, I have two viable specs- feral dps and healer. I switch to whichever my raid leader needs for a particular boss fight. Now let's say we are fighting a boss that drops gear my feral set needs, but my raid leader needs me healing for this fight. In this scenario I wouldn't get a shot at getting feral gear since I was in heal spec at the time the game rolled for me.I would like to see it set up where you tell it which specs you want it to include for your possible loot, using the druid again as an example:Feral tank - noFeral dps - yesHealer - yesSpellcaster dps - no
    Is your raid leader typically someone you do/don't know in LFR? Or are you talking about normal/heroic raiding? If you're talking LFR, I've never seen a person asked to swap to another spec for a particular fight since the fights are all tuned for X number of tanks, Y number of healers, and Z number of DPS. You will have to show up as the spec you want loot for because the game isn't going to be smart enough to see offsets - because that would be impossible to program. /rollseyes @blizz

    I like their ideas here for LFR, too bad they didn't think this much in detail when they rolled it out. Everyone against this was generally running with friends/guildies to need on gear for them, fact! I know people today are all about getting all their gear immediately so they can AFK in SW/Org on the latest eye-candy mount. Wait, I think that was always the case. But nowadays you get it so much faster.
  1. crion's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by foxximcleod View Post
    I raid on a Druid, I have two viable specs- feral dps and healer. I switch to whichever my raid leader needs for a particular boss fight. Now let's say we are fighting a boss that drops gear my feral set needs, but my raid leader needs me healing for this fight. In this scenario I wouldn't get a shot at getting feral gear since I was in heal spec at the time the game rolled for me.I would like to see it set up where you tell it which specs you want it to include for your possible loot, using the druid again as an example:Feral tank - noFeral dps - yesHealer - yesSpellcaster dps - no
    This is only for LFR, not for Normal/Heroic raids. You can still win feral gear in the situation you describe.
  1. lycaos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    I dont get it, what about the new system is better? people can still win items, even if they already have multiple copies of said item. admittedly, not allowing trading is a step in the right direction, as is winning only one item per boss, but those things could have been done with the old system, too. But the bad thing is the fact, that you cant even pass items, if you dont need them. If the system cant even have people pass on items/rolls, then the system is terrible in my eyes. Im gona run random HCs or World bosses with guildies and cant pass, even if I know I cant get anything from the boss we just killed? and have actually a change to win gold over someone else getting loot? Are you serious? I dont care about gold and the rest of the raid is better of not having me along, if they want to maximize gains from the boss, that doesnt promote having more people in raid

    And on top of that, we will have to farm some charms to slightly increase chance of the LFR bosses giving us some semi useless stuff?

    And on top of all that, valor gear is gonna be gone? 10man raiders are supposed to get the gear... where exactly? It took me over two months to get 4piece bonus. And if they continue with so few bosses per tier, the bosses will have their loottables expanded even more for items, that didnt drop now (necks, cloaks, relics etc) it is gonna be disaster.

    This system is gonna be a failure, reason why similar system sort of works in SWTOR is because the bosses there drop like 9 items for 16man raid, not 4 items for 25 people, all it does in wow is slow the gear progression even more, not to the point 10mans have to deal with the issues, but close
    so here my prblem witht his agreed it good logic but lfr does already have a set think as u said heal;ers getting axes and swords that just doesnt happen tho a ret paladin can need on holy pally gear isnt right i believe that they should be able to scan ur spec and gear and give u a logical peice of gear u need to ignore the fact of getting duplicate of lets say a rogue tier 14 hands 7 times u downed rthat boss when u can get a ring or a dagger aswell i mean it really isnt that hard they have the basic software in order to do this if they cant it really comes down to the developers being lazy and infact the way they had it wasnt so bad i do agree it could use some tweekws and if at all neesecary it can help a guild group if they go in with 3 members they should be able to trade the loot to people that need it or do loot council they cant choose sumeone they queued with or themselves to make sure there arent any "selfish pricks who dont give a rats &##" about other ppl well in thet senario they kinda have to i mean im sure im thinking a bit far fetched here but it is possible.....
  1. Sendai's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kladd View Post
    This is only for lfr right? master looter etc will still exist in regular raids with let's say your guild?
    Of course.
  1. Makeblessing's Avatar
    I remember the madness where at some point we had to clear a 10 man and a 25 man raid on normal/heroic difficulty. they get rid of that and still flood us with doing the same raids over and over again. Unless they start producing content twice as fast the current content will dry up at that pace. We're doing content, but we're doing it twice. Any raid you'll do for a month will actually be the quantity of two since you're doing everything double. I feel the whole thing has become horribly complicated. Maybe the raid finder should be a decision as well. Either do the raid finder and get your ridiculously easy loot, raid a normal raid or do nothing. Many people will already become bored after a few weeks of mists of pandaria because they're being bombarded with monotonous raids
  1. Puntar's Avatar
    So, for simplicity sake in MoP, player in LFR will roll on binary system for gear.

    Boss dead

    0 = no gear
    1 = gear / money
  1. Gammbit's Avatar
    If you need a scroll on (US) email me at Chris_Woodard21 at yahoo.com or message me ingame on Kil' Jaden alliance-Fuzzynipple
  1. Revrant's Avatar
    Why the flying fuck is this posted only in the EU? I can't even comment, ugh... Well I wish they'd apply some of this to the LFD tool, I don't want to start MoP and have every DPS with a tank offspec stealing my tank gear, honestly.
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Revrant View Post
    Why is this posted only in the EU? I can't even comment, ugh...
    What do you mean? The blog was posted first in the US forum. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4736886
  1. Edeta's Avatar
    The loot rules would be even more perfect if you could choose (for example before raid) for what spec you want gear Cause when you are for example a healer, and want to gather gear for your dps spec, but you have exacly none dpsing gear right now - the game could let you choose that you want to heal and get dps gear only It wont affect any other players, wont take THEIR dps gear, so why not? Ofc the rule would be that you can choose only gear for 1 spec per raid
  1. foxximcleod's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Idletime View Post
    Is your raid leader typically someone you do/don't know in LFR? Or are you talking about normal/heroic raiding? If you're talking LFR, I've never seen a person asked to swap to another spec for a particular fight since the fights are all tuned for X number of tanks, Y number of healers, and Z number of DPS. You will have to show up as the spec you want loot for because the game isn't going to be smart enough to see offsets - because that would be impossible to program. /rollseyes @blizz

    I like their ideas here for LFR, too bad they didn't think this much in detail when they rolled it out. Everyone against this was generally running with friends/guildies to need on gear for them, fact! I know people today are all about getting all their gear immediately so they can AFK in SW/Org on the latest eye-candy mount. Wait, I think that was always the case. But nowadays you get it so much faster.
    Sorry, I should have specified =) I'm speaking of normal raiding, not LFR. The post didn't say anywhere that they would be keeping the current loot model for normal/heroic raids, so I am under the impression that this will replace the way loot works for everyone. I fill whatever role my raid leader needs for a fight, and I don't want to feel like I can no longer do that just because I want a specific spec's loot off of a boss.
  1. Straif's Avatar
    I like the new tweaks to the system. 2 improvements/problems that would be nice to address, though:

    1) Like the post 2 up from me mentions - it would be nice to get off spec gear from here if your MS is pretty buffed out. Especially for 10 mans, some people need to swing roles from tank to dps or heals/dps, etc. Being able to select what gear you want to roll for MS or OS would be great -- the unintended alternative is that say you are a haler that needs to work on OS dps gear, you would need to enter the raid as a dps and put out crappy dps, thereby bringing the raid down.

    2) Once you are geared, you won't have much incentive to go with friends to LFR to help them gear up. Rolling NEED on LFR gear and passing it to guildies needs to be fixed to make the LFR environment more friendly, but besides this negative aspect there i a positive aspect as well ...Going along with guildies to LFR to help them when you need nothing further does give guildies something to do together and its nice to help friends and get help from them here. Maybe you could nominate a friend in the raid with you to get whatever your share of the loot is for them -- without hurting the rest of the LFR team. Secondly, an unintended consequence of not being able to go to help them get loot, is once toons are geared, they wont go to LFR, so again, the average raider is going to be worse in LFR. Similar to above. To get OS loot you have to que in your OS role, lowering raid quality, and toons that are maxed simply wont go to LFR at all. Usually in LFR there are new 85s/scrubs, but there are also toons decked out carrying the wieght.

    The combination of 1 & 2 will lead to LFR teams having lower dps and hps, and will have to be dumber down a little lower than they already are.

    But even without fixing these issues, I think the system is a great improvement.
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by foxximcleod View Post
    Sorry, I should have specified =) I'm speaking of normal raiding, not LFR. The post didn't say anywhere that they would be keeping the current loot model for normal/heroic raids, so I am under the impression that this will replace the way loot works for everyone. I fill whatever role my raid leader needs for a fight, and I don't want to feel like I can no longer do that just because I want a specific spec's loot off of a boss.
    Here's the closest answer I found:

    Originally Posted by Wryxian (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    The current intention is just Raid Finder and world boss encounters to start with. As with pretty much everything in a beta (and even outside one) this may change over time.
  1. cleaude's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathis View Post
    They will have 4 people win items regardless if they need or not. And if a boss drops [snip]
    The point of the system is that the boss won't be dropping anything anymore, it will merely give you the chance of winning something that can be won on that boss.

    It's really much easier to imagine this like a box item that everyone gets on every boss, let's call it... "stash of <boss name>". Now everyone checks what's inside their own (personal) stash that they got, for the majority it will usually be empty, but if you're in luck you can find an item and it's always something that could be useful to you. It's possible that everyone finds an item inside and it's possible that all go empty handed, the whole thing is individual, the boss did not drop any item, the game just gives everyone an equal chance at a (boss specific) reward for defeating it.

    If you're now saying "oooh, like events in Rift and GW2?" then you got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scathis View Post
    The current system also makes it so that the better gear people have the bigger your chance becomes.
    No, the reality was this:

    When you say "better geared" you're either talking about people who don't need any LFR stuff, those aren't going to do LFR at all, or you mean people who only need a couple items.

    And the exact problem is that even the latter group would still roll on everything so they could have a chance to trade it for the item they wanted. It doesn't matter to them if they need the item or even have it already, they just want it as a commodity to increase their chances of getting the item they want.

    Of course, when everyone does it, that only decreases everyones chances since piles of items end up as trash in someones bag who couldn't make a trade and nobody ever stops to talk in LFR to figure out who got what and who needs what. But since you have to assume that everyone else is needing on all items, you'd voluntarily cut your chances to a fraction if you only needed the stuff you want, so everyone ended up doing it.

    MMOs should be social and it's not necessarily a bad thing to engage people in trades, but in this case it is the opposite of fun, people are basically clawing each others eyes out over every item. So Blizzard is trying to take the part out that upsets people the most and to leave the part in where they still have to cooperate (on a basic level) to actually kill the boss.
  1. Skutch's Avatar
    7 years later and the loot system still getting fixed lol.
  1. Xatann's Avatar
    I think this loot systems works perfect and love the valor changes. atm you can just get it valor gear to go in the raids which might give you an higer item lvl but doesn't mean you are raid material. the game should be more based about learning to play your character and then getting rewarded instead that gear carries you all the way. how often isn't it that you get an ilvl 390 mage in your group that doesn't even outdpses the tank? things like that should be avoided and the valor changes is a good step in the right direction. no one likes to be flamed at for not pulling out the dps that is needed. (I know that there are non-raiders that farm valor points to get valor gear, but do you really need that gear? ofc it will give you some easier kills while doing what you are doing, but raiding is conscidered from the start of mmo's to be a step higher then solo playing, so they should deserve a reward by having higher gear)as for OS gearing in lfr, just go the same way as you had to gear your MS by running normals -> heroics -> raidfinder -> raids, instead of skipping the first 2 steps. in the meanwhile you learn how to play your class and become a better player.
  1. legendairi's Avatar
    This new LFR loot system actually looks quite promising, and I think that with the right loot values it could work quite nicely for all dungeon loot as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edeta View Post
    The loot rules would be even more perfect if you could choose (for example before raid) for what spec you want gear
    I agree, I think you should be allowed to choose a spec to "gear up" before you kill the first boss. This wouldn't harm any other players and would keep LFR populated for an extended period of time. After people obtain all the items they need for one spec, they can go back and collect for another.
  1. Zylos's Avatar
    Valor summed up-We needed a new way to force pvpers to pve so we reformed valor points.
  1. twopac's Avatar
    GW2 looting system is way better. Boss dies, everyone rolls against the computer, you win profit, you lose...blame yourself for the croddy roll.

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