MMO-Champion - Disc of the Red Flying Cloud, Lorewalkers Rewards, Blue Posts, SWTOR Free To Play
Character Profiles Possibly Coming Soon, Critical Mass Wizard Build, South Korea Gets a Server Upgrade, "Evil's Truck", Poll

Disc of the Red Flying Cloud
We finally know that the Disc of the Red Flying Cloud mount comes from being Exalted with the Lorewalkers!



Lorewalkers Quartermaster
The Lorewalkers also offer some other nice rewards at their Quartermaster. You can get Restored Artifacts by completing archaeology items or purchasing one for a Spirit of Harmony.

Level Type Slot Name Cost Required Rep
60MountDisc of the Red Flying Cloud600 Exalted
90Jewelcrafting RecipeDesign: Jade Panther200 Revered
90Blacksmithing RecipePlans: Living Steel Belt Buckle50 Exalted
90Tailoring RecipePattern: Greater Cerulean Spellthread25 None
1MiscellaneousTabardLorewalkers Tabard10 Exalted
1JunkLorewalker's Lodestone Restored Artifact Exalted
1JunkLorewalker's Map Restored ArtifactExalted


Mists of Pandaria Beta Addons on Curse
If you are in the Beta and need some function addons, check out the new listing on Curse. Curse Client is also able to update your addons for the Mists of Pandaria Beta.



Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Different Rules for Spells in PvP and PvE
Is there a reason damage spells can't effect players differently?
We do this already. Look at abilities such as Colossus Smash and even the concept of PvP CC durations, which has been in the game for a long time.

It's not our option of first resort because it's not intuitive for players and it means anytime we want to make balance adjustments, we must change two sets of numbers. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Content Difficulty and Consumption Speed
That way, maybe some of the prestige of killing bosses pre-nerf, or on lower levels of nerf stay.
Other than world firsts, was there ever any prestige to killing a boss? (outside the guild itself achieving that kill)

Heck, even people following the race don't care who killed a boss 2nd in the world, much less 20th...

No, but they care on their own servers, even if they don't raid themselves. It's a bit like Britain's surprise medal in the gymnastics yesterday; I don't like gymnastics so don't care about that at all. However, if one of those gymnasts lived on my street, I would be interested.
Sure, realm firsts might also have some prestige on the realm level, you're absolutely right. But as before, other than that... (and perhaps the first faction kill on the realm, as well).

Sounds like you are admitting that realm communities have been killed. By LFD and LFR.
You're reading too much into that post.

Actually, challenge dungeons will help bring back that realm community feeling that might be missing for some of you, as groups for those dungeons have to be manually formed.

This comment alone, shows that you have no idea what is going on on realms regarding raiding.
You didn't understand my post at all. I said it very clear, outside the guild itself (which is what you mention in your post), not many players really care about who killed a boss other than world first and perhaps their realm first.

Any reason as to why we're not seeing a developer respond in this thread to some of the proposals made to revive aspects that should already be there.., but aren't due to some clear direct "features", one would think they could squeeze in a few minutes considering they have all the time in the world to reply on us forums?
These forums are for you, the players, to interact between you and discuss almost anything you want. And we're taking care of noting the feedback we can find, as in this thread, and sending it to them (which we're doing not just with this thread, also others).

It is abundantly clear to even the slowest of individuals that you have absolutely no clue as to what drives players Draztal which is quite astounding after 185 pages, and even more clear that you only serve a purpose of ridiculing what people here say.
I understand it, I honestly do. I'm a raider myself and I share some of those desires you have expressed here. But there must be a reason for it that can be based on something else than "taking something away from others" or "prestige", etc. And there've been individuals here that have spoken clearly about those reasons, and we've noted them and we've sent feedback to the devs with the most common points here.

The response quoted and the fact that you claim challenge dungeons will bring some realm community back is testament to incompetence at the highest level for reasons already highlighted many times over the past 100 pages, but I'll happily point one out for you. If challenge modes aren't completed to a gold medal standard by a sufficient amount of characters we will see "balancing" (normal people would call it nerfs) so that you can ride the high horse claiming success just as is the case with lfr / lfd.
You're making assumptions, and judging my posts based on those assumptions. You're also forgetting that on challenge dungeons you're actually competing against the clock, and you'll be able to prove that you've been faster than everyone else.

I also feel my comment was ignored. Just as the people above me stated, i dont see any facts you base your comment on regarding almost no one caring beyond world firsts, apart from a very broad and ( in my opinion ) unjustified generalization.
Well, in that case, I guess it won't take you long to show me a forum post cheering someone for the world 36th kill of Heroic Hagara, right?

I think it's actually you that does not understand how much people care about those. The more I read your posts the more I think you absolutely have no clue.
Ah, but that's the thing. And that's why I'm still posting on this thread. I understand why people care so much about those. But I can't find an objective reason to back it up (I'm speaking about arguments like only a minority should see the content, etc, not the whole thread). Some concerns did have objective reasonings to back them up, and that was great. Some others can only really relate to nostalgia (wanting TBC back without mentioning the downsides it had) or wishing to retain exclusivity/prestige in a way that is demeaning to others.

Are you kidding me? When i tried to give an idea, i was ignored. By Draztal too, he said world firsts matter only. That was the reply to my idea of a design change. Now, thats how much they care, in my experience.
I can't comment on your ideas. But I've certainly haven't said that world firsts are the only thing that matter. What I've said is that for the community at large, it's usually just that what's mentioned. And you can check that by yourself visiting the most popular fansites out there. You won't see them mention that X guild has been 10th in the world killing a boss.

Both of them care immensely about what position they are inside their faction, realm and world.
Read my post again, that's not what I meant (and I even specified it on that post). Of course your guild cares about its position. People outside your guild, though, probably don't (unless they're looking for a guild to apply to) unless you're world first/realm first/country first/etc. Hopefully now what I was trying to get through makes sense? It's not about how your guildmates feel about your position.

The fact that people mention TBC has little to do with nostalgia, it has to do with the idea that there was a lot more content available back then. TBC had a certain policy when it came to progression and that policy was changed in WotLK.
A policy that had side effects that have been discussed in this thread at length. Those are the downsides that noone has really mentioned during this discussion.

There should always be ongoing competition in WoW, and something for people to aim towards, as soon as there isn't there won't be any drive to improve yourself as a player.
You tell us that we can't speak for an entire population, alright, but then don't doing it yourself telling us what we do and don't care about.

If you look at popular community tools such as wowprogress, there're always new kills being made every day, so to me that looks as ongoing competition.

Not gonna quote the rest of your post, but it's a spot on explanation of how gamers think and act. We are competitive by nature and we do care of our own performances, even if its no 134 in the world.
Of course, but not everyone is interested in the raid race and just want to experience the encounters at the pace they can.

I get what you mean, but people do care if they pass another guild that was faster than them on the last tier. So your point is not entirely true. If you pass another guild they do care that someone else did that, if it makes them fall behind in the race of killing bosses first in their realm. It does work the other way around aswell, when we manage to kill something people rush fast to see if others managed to do that on the same night.
I agree with this. My post was talking about the prestige perspective specifically, which is a different one than this. Of course, if your guild advances over another in the realm rank, you'll cheer about it, and the other guild most likely will try to advance as quickly as possible to retake that position.

You're not serious about being in a raiding guild yourself are you?
I am, as I said, I've been raiding since 2005, still do, and have no intention of stopping in Mists of Pandaria.

Do you honestly believe those sites would have such high hit numbers when people really don't care as much as you suggest? The numbers prove you wrong. Last tier though, even wowprogress was more for "who got it fastest" (on our realm) then who is furthest, which is directly reflecting on the main concern, too little content for the expected amount of time and the dilution of raiding as a whole.
Of course they care about their own progress and how they compare against them. But once you leave that specific case, people in your realm that is raiding at a different pace most likely don't really care about what your guild is doing (and care about theirs, obviously) and care about what's happening to the guilds around their same place.

I'm quite frankly stunned at how it seems to be acceptable to demand nerfs and easier, simplified gameplay, but asking for a challenge is tantamount to sacrilege.
Asking for a challenge is right, and the answer is that you have that challenge there. You can turn the debuff off at any time and face those bosses without the Power of the Aspects. But that's an answer some of you don't like. And while it's fine that you don't like the answer, it's not right to say that there's no way to have content that you feel is challenging for you today.

Okay. Nobody cares what guild killed Heroic Ragnaros heroic 4th, but they will care about AoE fest speed runs? What is the point of Blizzard adding Challenge mode dungeons when competition does not matter?
You're mixing competition with prestige... (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

The Purpose of LFR
However, LFR does make a person get sick and bored of DS extremely quickly... running it lfr and normal on multiple chars each week has removed alot of peoples passion for raiding DS
If you are running LFR and normal every week on multiple chars, I don't think it should be a surprise you eventually lose the passion for raiding the place... After so much of doing the same, you'll get tired, be it LFR, HC raiding, dailies... anything, really.

Yes i could skip LFR altogether, but the tier bonuses are something most players want and are needed to become competitive.
You get the same tier bonuses (and higher item level) from Normal and Heroic DS.

and yet, you guys have made running older tiers obsolete, with forcing (by gear i mean) to chain run the latests tier raid.. feels kind of silly, yes?
You can run older tiers whenever you want. Not just for experiencing the content these days, also for the gear for transmogrification (if you like a particular tier set that you're missing), achievements and so on.

Any game that cannot pose even a slight challenge before completion is pretty messed up development wise.
And even with the 30% debuff on DS, the game poses a challenge (perhaps not to you, but certainly to others).

appease people who think that paying for a game entitles you to see all the content
And why are they wrong on that thought? On which basis should someone think that he can not see the content even if he's willing to pay the subscription for it?

Why not just mail everyone the BiS items and rarest mounts?
Is that what the players are demanding? I'm yet to see someone ask for that (that is not trolling, either). (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Priest (Forums)
PW: Solace change?
We think it is possible to balance active vs passive regen. The key is in how healers use mana. Nobody needs infinite regen. You just need enough to heal a fight. If you consider a fight where you never have to heal, then Solace will crush any other mana return because you have so many free GCDs in which to spam it. However, you also don't need that mana for healing in the contrived fight with no healing. As fight intensity increases, the need for mana increases BUT the time available for Solace decreases. Solace will work best on fights where there is very intensive healing followed by quiet periods in which you can nuke. But depending on the timing, Mindbender might work for those fights just as well.

We don't like Solace with a cooldown because then you feel like you must use it on cooldown. With no cooldown, then is there is a continuum between fights where you have free time but need mana and fights where every cast time must be spent on a heal. The choice becomes the priest's.

I'm still seeing a lot of "I need to spam Solace so make it more spamable" responses. You're not going to convince us with that argument. Let us know in what specific situations you are struggling with mana and what types of spells you are trying to cast. That is the actual issue in our minds.

I am also still seeing a lot of "we have provided you with the evidence." I wouldn't be asking if you had. There are maybe 3 links to parses and a couple more with any kinds of numbers at all. If you feel it is that easy to make your case, then make it.

As an aside, the only thing we didn't like about Telluric Currents as active mana generation was that it scaled too well with gear (in 4.3) and would have been a mandaory glyph (in 5.0).

It's a very common thing that when people feel they aren't being listened to they complain louder and more frequently.
I have been in this business for 15 years, so I can say with certainty that that strategy does not work. You run the risk of your entire point being dismissed if you come across as too uninformed to make an argument with some substance to back up the sweeping claims. If you are trying to convince anyone in a situation where you can't just order them to do something, whether that person is a boss, teacher, co-worker or government official, you'll do better with logic and reason than insults and hyperbole.

We appreciate the passion -- just channel it into something productive. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Beta Class Balance Analysis
Paladin (Forums)
Judgement is once again a melee attack that has a 30-yard range. (Yes, re-read that to make sure you didn’t misread it...)

Edit: Judgement is also spelled Judgment now. The developers are playing nasty tricks on me to make sure I'm awake.

It's a PvP nerf. Now it'll trigger Frost Armor and Nature's Grasp again.
Correct. This is the primary purpose of the change.

Warlock (Forums)
As a result of the change to Malefic Grasp's mechanics, Agony now takes twice as long to ramp up, since the ticks are no longer faster under MG's channel. Is this additional nerf intended?
No, this should be fixed in the next build. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

SWTOR Will Soon be Free to Play
Starting in November, SWTOR will have a limited free to play mode. During the EA earnings call today, we were reminded that the game needs 500,000 subscribers to break even. Subscription numbers have declined below one million now, making a free to play option a good way to allow players turned off by the subscription fee to continue playing. The game's price will be reduced to $15 and it will still come with one free month of gametime, allowing anyone who purchases the game to experience the full version before deciding which level of play they would like. You can find more information in the Free-To-Play FAQ.

The free version of the game allows players to experience all of the class stories through level 50, but free players will have no access to Operations. Free players are also limited in the number of character customizations they can access, as well as the number of Warzones, Flashpoints, Space Missions, and auctions that can be posted. You can see a quick rundown of the limitations in this chart.

Players who continue to pay will also gain Cartel Coins, a new currency that will allow purchase of character customization, faster leveling, and other conveniences. Some restrictions can also be "unlocked" with Cartel Coins. Current players will get a number of bonus coins and Fan's Choice item for being active before July 31, 2012. Players who want more Cartel Coins will be able to purchase them from the SWTOR website in the future.


Originally Posted by SWTOR
Starting this fall, there will be two different ways to play Star Wars: The Old Republic:

Subscription — A service designed for players who want unrestricted access to all the game features via ongoing subscription or by redeeming a Game Time Card. In addition to gaining access to all game content as our current subscribers do now, subscribers will receive ongoing monthly grants of Cartel Coins, the new virtual currency that will be introduced later this fall. Cartel Coins can be used to purchase valuable in-game items including customizable gear and convenience features that will enhance the game play experience.

Free-To-Play — The first 50 levels will be Free-to-Play, with restrictions on access to new content and advanced player features. Some restrictions can be "unlocked" with Cartel Coins.

As the first step towards adding the new Free-to-Play option this fall, Star Wars: The Old Republic will go on sale in August for $14.99 USD, including one-month of free subscription.

Current and former players will also find additional benefits as part of this program. BioWare will be increasing the frequency of game content updates, with the first of many new releases coming in August. In addition, current subscribers will receive Cartel Coin grants and qualify for access to special in-game items. Even former players who re-activate now will qualify for special benefits. To learn more about these rewards, please visit www.StarWarstheOldRepublic.com/FREE.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Disc of the Red Flying Cloud, Lorewalkers Rewards, Blue Posts, SWTOR Free To Play started by chaud View original post
Comments 164 Comments
  1. PuppetShowJustice's Avatar
    That mount is awesome. It's the closest I see myself getting to the Eye of Eternity discs.

    I know which rep I'm maxing out first.
  1. Buu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Syio View Post
    I'm not a SWTOR player, but this news is really sad. All the effort put in by the developers and the expectations of the gaming world's gone to the dogs, it seems. I was hoping it would give Blizzard a run for its money (I firmly believe competition brings the best out). Really, really tragic.
    Sorry, but we are talking about BEAware here. The effort put in players expectations was probably way greater than the effort of Developers.

    Bioware's history is long gone, and stuff like Baldur's Gate 2, Mass Effect 1, Dragon Age: Origins, Jade Empire, and specially HK's KOTOR are there, in the past.

    They have a line of newly produced manure, as DA2, ME3, and KOTOR2. They only worry on adapting the game to the gouging tactics of John Riccitiello, making no effort outside that.

    The result is games that not only have no appeal to the player, but anger them by clearly trying to strip the customers from all their money offering nothing in return.

    And repeating this stupid tactic is what's ruining Diablo3, BTW. Come on, increasing repair bills and removing gold from vases and chests, so people are FORCED to buy gold from the RMAH, giving Blizz their 15%? Easier to leave such game, than to spend money on botter's gold.
  1. greyghost's Avatar
    We're getting so close to Perfect World territory. I can taste it.



    Recruit-a-friend mount in 1 year?

    edit: I mean look, we've got Pandaren and Worgen. Now just put in a feature where we can carry other players around and ....



    PS: I post these in jest. The disc mount is really neat. But lol if we ever get flying swords to surf around in the air....
  1. h4rr0d's Avatar
    mmm, Disc of Tzeentch, I soo got to get that.
  1. Noctim's Avatar
    lol. another (major franchise) mmorpg failed against wow.

    seems like there is only space for one big universe. i really hoped for a market diversification with high quality products, but with decreasing account numbers - even in wow - the "high times" of mmorpgs seem to be over for now.

    in my opinion the main reason for this monopoly position is the massive amount of invested player time. even if wow is technically "old", it's exceptional flow kept the players playing for more than seven years. the majority of people won't give up or switch to something different, if they actually "worked hard" for their current state of play.

    wow also still has the biggest community (and fan sites) for showing off personal performance and achievements and therefore the biggest "stage" to present oneself.
  1. MacHaggis's Avatar
    You know an mmo is going down the drain when it's annoucing F2P, when it's actually "pay to win".

    And it still astounds me how much people can whine on the official WoW forums.
  1. lvlark's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by 4KhazModan View Post
    Anyone else think of Nimbus when they saw the mount?
    Come to me, Flying Nimbus!!!

    I'm getting it.
  1. Faithshield's Avatar
    Ah Tzeentch, how I loved thee.

    Also I quit SWtoR months and months ago. Its horrible though, I thought it was a great game and I loved the storyline etc, but for some reason it couldn't hold my attention. It played like a single player and not like a MMO. I almost feel like it was released into the wrong genre - it would have been a very successful RPG, especially with online group play incorporated into it.
  1. MasterYi's Avatar
    Random Snowflake: "I am special!"
    Blue: "And who the f are you?"
    Random Snowflake: "Realm 1st Heroic Deathwing man! World 56th! I can talk to people with attitude, because I'm that AWZUM"
    Blue: "LOL WHO GIVES A FUCK"

    I like this European blue guy
  1. dope_danny's Avatar
    sweet a disc of tzeentch for my warlock.
  1. Faithshield's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterYi View Post
    Random Snowflake: "I am special!"
    Blue: "And who the f are you?"
    Random Snowflake: "Realm 1st Heroic Deathwing man! World 56th! I can talk to people with attitude, because I'm that AWZUM"
    Blue: "LOL WHO GIVES A FUCK"

    I like this European blue guy
    Personally I think he is losing the argument, players seem to be catching him out.

    Also I hate the 'snowflake' argument. It seems to be a war against people actually being good at the game and wanting to be better then the norm. Shock horror? Every good game I have ever played has had challenges - and ones where you complete it in a day have been utterly forgettable. I think deep down Blizzard knows this, otherwise they would remove normal and heroic mode and leave us with simply LFR.

    Plus everyone is hypocrites on this subject. They will use the snowflake argument about challenging content and people wanting to be 'special', and then proceed to post in the 300+ page thread about transmogrification after spending hours putting together a unique and good looking armour set. The Orwellian 'doublethink' here is astounding, but its rarely worth highlighting.
  1. manniefaces's Avatar
    Yet another "WoW killer" gone free to play. WoW is the once and future king as dated as it is and that speaks volumes on the inability of another developers to get it right.
  1. Azerox's Avatar
    Why not a yellow cloud called Nimbus? .. they could make some fun
  1. SamR's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Faithshield View Post
    Plus everyone is hypocrites on this subject. They will use the snowflake argument about challenging content and people wanting to be 'special', and then proceed to post in the 300+ page thread about transmogrification after spending hours putting together a unique and good looking armour set. The Orwellian 'doublethink' here is astounding, but its rarely worth highlighting.
    Anyone can run an old instance or raid to get a transmog piece. How many people were able to experience the Sapph reanimate sequence in vanilla?

    The special snowflakes don't just want to be special, they want to make sure nobody else can be as special as they are. It's like people farming some really sweet transmog gear and then whining at Blizzard to remove it so other people can't get it.
  1. Buu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MacHaggis View Post
    You know an mmo is going down the drain when it's annoucing F2P, when it's actually "pay to win".

    And it still astounds me how much people can whine on the official WoW forums.
    I have been playing DCUO and although some stuff as the replay badges and the legends PvP chips are indeed gamebreaking, this interference is minimal in the big scope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctim View Post
    lol. another (major franchise) mmorpg failed against wow.

    seems like there is only space for one big universe. i really hoped for a market diversification with high quality products, but with decreasing account numbers - even in wow - the "high times" of mmorpgs seem to be over for now.

    in my opinion the main reason for this monopoly position is the massive amount of invested player time. even if wow is technically "old", it's exceptional flow kept the players playing for more than seven years. the majority of people won't give up or switch to something different, if they actually "worked hard" for their current state of play.

    wow also still has the biggest community (and fan sites) for showing off personal performance and achievements and therefore the biggest "stage" to present oneself.
    Although Bioware is the main factor to blame. They haven't being themselves for a while and look strangely proud of sucking. I believe they have a HUGE friend list with dozens of IGN employees, that keep kissing Bioware's asses telling how awesome they are, because the amount of money that come from EA into their site.

    But yes, from now on the amount of time invested into WoW should be taken into account. Probably a way to attract people would be legacy boost.

    The same way sites like Ten Ton Hammer verify ownership, by choosing pieces of the gear to be changed could be used for other MMOs that is return would give boosts to the characters in their own games. That way players would be carrying their legacy from WoW to the new game and then would be more eager to stay.
  1. Ratyrel's Avatar
    Awesome mount - do all characters have that stand ready animation on it? Would be awesome if your character would sit down in the monk zen anim
  1. SodiumChloride's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by h4rr0d View Post
    mmm, Disc of Tzeentch, I soo got to get that.
    And Blizzard lifts yet another idea from Games Workshop's IP.
  1. fateswarm's Avatar
    I wonder why Blizzard responds to rude posts. Let them ignored.

    Unless we reached a point where those rude posts are the majority, in which case I'm not sure I want to be around here.
  1. Mohveli's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    And Blizzard lifts yet another idea from Games Workshop's IP.
    You mad???
  1. h4rr0d's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    The special snowflakes don't just want to be special, they want to make sure nobody else can be as special as they are. It's like people farming some really sweet transmog gear and then whining at Blizzard to remove it so other people can't get it.
    Your comparison is bit flawed, let me fix it for you:

    The special snowflakes don't just want to be special, they want to make sure the challenge stays the same for everyone else coming after them. It's like people farming some really sweet transmog gear and then whining at Blizzard because suddenly people don't have to farm it, but instead can just show up to the instance portal and get all the gear from there instantly.

    Edit: there was about 10 mins long vid on ytube with someone explaning why it's good that there is some content not everyone can access right away (and no, heroic mode of the place I've farmed for 2 months on LFR and Normal is not content I can't access right away), or rather, that there's some unexplored content that's free for grabs if you have the balls and skill for it and it's perfectly fine if that content stays unexplored by majority or entire population for quite a while. It creates much bigger desire to play the game than the LFR-Normal-Heroic-let's nerf the **it out of the places until everyone and his mother can kill them model.
    What on earth is supposed to motivate me to kill exactly the same boss that suddenly has twice as much HP and is doing twice as much damage than the last time I killed it. And if I can't kill it (why would I want to do that again?), Blizzard will nerf it for me until I can.

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