MMO-Champion - Experience to Level Changed, Character Creation Gear, Blue Posts, Weekly Roundup
Booster Pack Giveaway, Patch 1.0.4 Targeted for end of August , 1.0.4 and Monster Affixes , Clarification on the "Increased By A Factor of Four"

Beta Experience Required to Level Changed
The amount of experience required to level changed recently in beta, decreasing for a portion of leveling under 85 and significantly increasing with level 85 and onward. See the table below for a rough idea of the changes.

Due to the lack of people leveling in beta, it was hard to get data for some of the level ranges. If you happen to have a character in the questionable level range, be sure to check and let us know what you find!

You can get a good idea of the XP rewarded by the new quests by glancing over the various Zone Pages on WoWDB.

Level Old XP Requirement New XP Requirement
1-9OldSame
10-39?Old(-20%)
40-82OldSame
82-834,004,0002,669,000 (-33%)
83-845,203,4003,469,000 (-33%)
84-859,165,1004,583,000 (-50%)
85-8610 million15.5 million (+55%)
86-8711.6 million18 million (+55%)
87-8814.6 million22.6 million (+55%)
88-8917.6 million27.3 million (+55%)
89-9021.2 million32.8 million (+55%)


Character Creation Preview Gear Updated
The latest beta build added shoulders to some of the new gear used in the preview when selecting a class during character creation. This is not the gear that your character will get when starting the game, but the gear that is used to show you what a higher level character will look like.



Beta Class Balance Analysis
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We are changing the new Vengeance model to work on unmitigated damage. This means the number is calculated without regards to armor, stance, cooldowns, etc. The net result is that any given creature should generate the same average Vengeance for all tanks. The conversion has been reduced from 5% to 2% to adjust for this change. (This is not yet on your current build.)

concerning "imortal' buffs (such as Guardian Angel, Ardent Defender) and cooldowns that allow the tank to soak an amount of dmg that would otherwise kill him (Zen Meditation, AMS) ..

how those would affect vengeance?

a) are the "entire dmg" used in the calculation? for example the boss skill does 999k dmg, but we are able to survive that with that kind of cooldown, does it account for that 999k dmg taken, skyrocketing vengeance to heavens ?

b) only the dmg taken is used on the calculation? for example, the tank with 500k hp will take 500k dmg, but the cd/buff prevents his death, and the extra dmg (that is absorbed by the cooldown) is not accounted on the vengeance?

c) while using that kind of cooldown any dmg taken will not account on vengeance?

We're not entirely sure yet of the right call here. You could theoretically dump all your survival cooldowns in order to give your tank an AP buff. Maybe that's not worth it, or maybe it's an interesting decision to help you get through the hard phase of a fight. Obviously we wouldn't want survival cooldowns to no longer be used for survival, but I suspect that won't be the case. Try and abuse it and let us know what you find.

Just wanted to point out that for guardians and blood dks that the vengeance tooltip was not updated with the removal of the 10% max health cap. The new model is in just need the tooltip update.
We just overlooked that tooltip and it is now fixed. There is no cap for any tank at this time.

Just confirming that with the new model, our starting jump up Vengeance (to prevent long ramp up) is: (UnmitigatedHit/3.75) * 50%
Yeah, that calculation should work.

Have you ever considered adding a buff to heal spec DPS that is only active while the healer is not in a group/raid? Probably the same could be asked for tank specs. Then those players are not forced into a DPS spec or slower gameplay while out grinding and questing.
The advantage of tanking when solo is supposed to be that you are very hard to kill. It's a common solo tank tactic just to pull lots of stuff at once. Similarly, healers also don't die. They might not be able to kill something in 3 GCDs, but it shouldn't take 12 either, and then they can throw a heal on themselves and go on to the next pull.

We don't want tanks and healers to do dreadful DPS when solo, and to be fair, I don't think they do. But we also don't want to see leveling guides encouraging Ret paladins or Shadow priests to swap specs just for leveling purposes.

I leveled a Resto druid as Resto through LK, and I could nuke stuff down just fine. The problems I had were with say spellcasters because I couldn't interrupt them. NPCs who could heal just kept healing themselves until they ran OOM.

If anyone feels like their healing or tanking character in the current beta build would have a lot of trouble leveling or completing daily quests while solo, please let us know.

Earlier, you mentioned that swing speeds slow down dynamically if an attack speed buff expires mid-swing. Does this also apply to temporary haste rating effects (say, a trinket proc or the elemental blast buff)? Do swings also speed up dynamically if you gain an appropriate buff mid-swing?
Yes to all of these.

Death Knight (Forums / Skills)
There appears to be a serious problem with DK rune regeneration in the current build. Our apologies. We will work on a solution as soon as we can.

Hunter (Forums / Skills)
I'm noticing that the damage on improved serpent sting seems to not match a logical formula since the patch hit. The best fit I can find to explain it is that it may be using the old serpent sting formula (9.7% RAP + 2030.22) instead of the new one (8% RAP + 1620.19). Applying that and the 100% bonus from the ability description gets me within a few damage of the expected amount, but it's still slightly off.

I can't imagine this is correct, but I was hoping you could clarify if it's a bug or if the mechanics have changed and the tooltip wasn't updated. I'm getting 12615 damage from imp sting with 18528 RAP and 9.84% mastery (and no debuffs on the target).

It was indeed using the old formula for Serpent Sting’s damage in Improved Serpent Sting. This has been fixed for the next build.

Is wild quiver proc'd when ranged attacks cast? or when they impact the target? (on cast)
When the attack successfully hits.

Can wild quiver proc from an attack that misses or is dodged? (yes)
No.

Does a wild quiver shot qualify as a ranged attach that could recursively proc another wild quiver shot? (I would think so from the tooltip)
No, it can’t proc from attacks that are procs themselves.

Do non-bow attacks (e.g., trinket procs) trigger wild quiver? (no)
No.

Is murder of crows supposed to trigger wild quiver? (I thought yes but it doesn't)
No.

Ghostcrawler look at these numbers http://www.simulationcraft.org/504/Raid_T14H.html
I think you guys kinda overshot hunter nerfs a lil don't you think? We went from being up top with Boomies and Demo locks before the nerf/patch to dead last now.

I can't debug the Simulationcraft numbers. Those guys are working very hard from what we can tell to be as accurate as possible, but when they're not, I am unable to give you explanations without a lot more information.

If you have some raid parses or something else showing hunters on the bottom, we could discuss those.

Monk (Forums / Skills)
Is Elusive Brew on your radar? I haven't crunched the numbers but I just KNOW everyone's going to be surprised when they see how much more effective it is when you use each charge as you get them.

At first glance, everyone wants to use it like Tigereye Brew (wait till high/max stacks, use it for the burst damage), but I'm theorizing that sipping it like Mana Tea suddenly converts it into a Savage Defense clone given the rate of charges that we can gain. If we time it, we can spend the charges as we gain them (1 or 2 at a time depending on how many Elusive Brew procs) on individual melee swings, greatly improving its effectiveness in a way that probably wasn't counted on considering its previous version.

You might not have the recent change yet, where we added a 9 sec self-only cooldown to the Elusive Brew button. It is still off the GCD.

Paladin (Forums / Skills)
Could we get Sacred Shield to stack?
Yes, it will stack from multiple paladins. It is still limit one per paladin.

Can Sanctity of Battle affect Avenger Shield?
Yes.

Rogue (Forums / Skills)
Recuperate does not seem to be benefiting from PvP power.
Percentage health increases shouldn't benefit from PvP power, since they already scale with your health pool. They were doing this in an earlier build, but we have since fixed it.

Shaman (Forums / Skills)
Is there a possibility you can look at giving the same treatment to Earth Shield? If you are going to allow multiple Sacred Shields on a single target, (in addition to much earlier making a similar change for Beacon and Lifebloom, etc) what is the reason Earth Shield is still limited?
We'll discuss it, but Earth Shield is really powerful.

I am 99% sure healing stream and Healing tide in some way or bugged. Before the bug where they where not geting the + 50% to water totem's they were healing for more then they are now after it was fixed. Seem's like either only geting 25% of the water totem buff or not geting the 25% to shaman heal's buff..
No, you're right. It wasn’t getting the buff to all healing. Fixed.

Elemental Blast tooltip and intention claims 3,500 yet the buff and actual gain is still 3,000 Haste/Mastery or Crit.
It is intended to be 3500. We can look into hotfixing it depending on when the next build will go out.

Healing Rain is currently gaining the buff from Unleashed Elements. Is this a bug?
No, that is intended.

Warlock (Forums / Skills)
A note for Demonology warlocks: There’s a bug in the current beta build which is preventing your Metamorphosis Melee from casting while casting other spells. You should still be able to do that, and it will be fixed for the next build.

So what's going on with Shadow Bolt? The damage it's doing isn't meshing with the spell's tooltip, or what I should be seeing when I math it all out based on my stats, and the damage it's doing is oddly consistent (26,723 to 26,724 with my current stats).
Yeah, the tooltip was wrong. Fixed for the next build.

Destruction Warlocks are once again non competitive and it seems every expansion you try and bandage fix their dps later on and it still doesn't work out. Simulationcraft has they WAY behind not other lock specs but other classes in general. Now you would think hey not every fight is standstill perhaps they will do more on multitarget or aoe fights but.......WAY behind demo and other classes there too. We've had to deal with rain of fire (aka rain of fail) for our aoe now and there still isn't a good aoe option competitively.

Now before you say: hey on single target what if you move your spec might be better there but NOPE; destro is a nuke class and benefits least from moving around. Thus this spec has no use for ANY situation over ANY lock spec. It needs a serious fix now.

I can't debug the Simulationcraft numbers. Those guys are working very hard from what we can tell to be as accurate as possible, but when they're not, I am unable to give you explanations without a lot more information.

If you have some raid parses or something else showing [your dude] on the bottom, we could discuss those.

Also, see the excellent post above by Lokrick. Don't hold up Simcraft or any theorycrafting to unrealistic expectations. Channel your energy towards helping those guys instead. Do their numbers match what your character can achieve? Do you see anything wrong with their assumptions or calculations? Just telling us that Simcraft says you are low isn't conveying any actual information to us.

I am afraid "posts Simcraft and pouts" posts are going to be added to our drinking game.

Fel flame is really expensive that it sometimes because a struggle to even weave it into our rotation. As many have said in the past, is there any possibility to bring down the cost of fel flame a little so it won't seem so painful to cast.... especially when we are low on manner.
Fel Flame isn't intended to be part of your single-target, stand and nuke rotation. It's for movement or quick kills.

Warrior (Forums / Skills)
Is enrages while enraged not proc'ing more charges of Raging Blows intended?

It is for the moment at least, but we're not crazy about it. Specifically, using Berserker Rage while Enrage is up doesn't give you more rage or Raging Blow charges. The concern was that Fury would just macro Berserker Rage into every attack. With the previous design, this wasn't worth doing because once you were enraged being more enraged wasn't valuable. Now it is. It's more intuitive (and probably fun) if Berserker Rage always grants a charge, but we want Berserker Rage to be a button warriors actually use, not macro. Another option would be to put Berseker Rage on the GCD, but we thought this would feel even worse. If we become convinced warriors won't macro Berserker Rage, we'll happily revert the change.

Enough smart players have stepped up to the plate to convince us that this probably won't be a problem (in other words, that you could macro Berserker Rage but optimal play is not to), so we are going to revert this change. Berserker Rage will grant a charge of Raging Blow and rage even if you are already enraged.

As an aside, we are also going to try warrior stances off the GCD again, but with a 3 sec shared cooldown. This should allow you to shift stances for short periods without a damage loss because of the spent GCD, but not for individual attacks.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Recent Vengeance Changes
We don't want tanks to do awesome damage just for being tanks. We want tanks to do awesome damage when they are actually tanking. That remains the governing philosophy behind the design.

Remember, Vengeance doesn't exist to give tanks something fun to do. It exists solely to make sure tank threat stays high when DPS characters are gearing for higher DPS while the tanks gear primarily for survival. Tanks only need to generate high threat when they are tanking, and typically threat is the most important on the most dangerous opponents, which also tend to be those who hit the hardest.

As an aside, if I was able to design WoW solely for me, threat would still be an important stat to gear for. Raiders would scoff at tanks who stacked only Stamina as being bad tanks because they couldn't hold aggro. It was fun for me back in BWL to try to generate higher threat than the warlocks. I don't think it was that fun for the warlocks though. I don't think it was that fun for the rest of the raid when I screwed up e.g. my Heroic Strike use and caused us to wipe without them feeling like they could do anything to resolve the situation except stop DPS. Fortunately, I recognize that WoW would have far fewer players if I got to design it totally around what I find fun.

It would be nice if your successful Taunt granted some Vengeance.
We're toying with that idea. It would be a percent of Vengeance of the character you taunted off of, not just free AP.

The scenario we want to avoid is Tank A is tanking, and Tank B taunts off, but then avoids three boss hits in a row. The boss is likely to go back to Tank A. The avoidance wouldn't be a problem if it came later on, because we average things out, but if it happens early on, we have nothing to average.

You could have solved that if you just gave everyone threat drops. Why would that have been such a problem? Even now I run into bad thanks that can't hold threat off my Warrior or DK, and I have to sit there doing nothing because one special attack will rip threat.
I don't think that really solves the problem. If dumping your cooldown regularly was necessary then it would almost become part of your DPS rotation which doesn't seem like it's adding much gameplay. If dumping your cooldown was something you only did when the boss turned to attack you, then it would still be really sub-optimal to have the boss always bolting around, cleaving, breathing or whatever else to the group. I think you'd still just want to keep the boss on the tank and have the raid do slow DPS.

And lastly, Threat being fun back in Vanilla (and it was) was only possible because the dungeons required you to understand and react to it.
I'm not sure it was fun in vanilla. It was fun for me because I was a tank. I see mostly tanks say it was fun. I haven't seen too many DPS players say it was fun to try not to do so much DPS that they caught up with the tank.

I know "scaling" is the fall guy for just about anything, and it's the most over (and wrongly) used word on the forums...
Totally agree with that. The rest of your post was good too, but I believe we have fixed the differing mitigation problem.

I think I started writing a reply to the Vengeance topic earlier, but I deleted it. Just didn't seem like my voice would matter, because I'm fairly sure I come down on the opposite side of Blizz in regard to the topic of Tank damage. My feeling is low Tank damage is one of the contributing factors to the insufficient Tank supply and that many Tanks would enjoy doing much higher damage.
"Every voice matters." I disagree with you a little about tank shortage. I think it is almost entirely because tanks have a lot of responsibility to set the pace of things, know the boss mechanics and often even have to explain them to others.

This game has spectacular framework and is bar none the best game I have played, however sometimes I feel like you really don't understand what we find fun.
A little off topic, but I would argue that perhaps you don't realize that some players find fun things that you don't find fun.

1) Tanks need a way to scale up their threat output as DPS gear up into threat stats only while tanks take primarily defensive stats (even in this new active mitigation model it seems).

2) The current versions of vengence on both live and beta have similar problems and quirks that make it "not fun" to quest in a tank spec, or to have to deal with tank swaps.


One hundred percent agree that point 1 is important. That was the genesis of Vengeance. We don't think tanks need high damage in order for questing to be fun, and you can even argue that it's not important for tanks to be good at questing. (I'm not arguing that specifically, but I don't think it's a hard argument to make.) (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Upcoming Beta Hotfixes
Update on this issue: We'll be applying a hotfix overnight that should fix the Death Knight rune regen issues, and also should address the odd "phasing" issues that were present throughout testing today. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Launcher Now Downloading Data For MoP Update
I'm just popping in here to confirm that the background download for Mists of Pandaria content has begun. It's like September 25 is getting closer every day... (!)

By the way, answers to a lot of common questions about the Blizzard Background Downloader can be found here: http://us.battle.net/support/en/arti...downloader-faq

It's a good read for troubleshooting and general information.

any info as to the end of the pvp season ?
We'll notify you (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Mists Of Pandaria Leveling Speed
FYI, instance leveling is very very slow compared to questing, so much so there has been numerous amounts submitting bug / feedback reports regarding the XP gained.
The developers haven't done yet the final pass on experience balance for the beta. So some dungeons, quests, etc might feel off. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Conveniences and Things to Do In WoW
You're forcing people to grind the rep to exalted multiple times if you require exalted with the rep to use the mount. If you make the mounts all BoA and don't require the exalted rep on a toon to use said mount, I'd be fine. But until a decision regarding that is made, I'm 10000000000% against this system. On top of this, you made the new dragons mounts require the skill you get from hitting Exalted. There's ANOTHER thing you HAVE to grind to exalted on ALL your toons if you intend to use one of the best looking mounts in game that you ALREADY had to grind to get. It's just ridiculous. You keep talking about choices, but when it comes to rep, A. Not Account Wide. B. You do it this way, or you don't get to do it at all.
I believe all of the faction mounts are account wide.

Our basic philosophy is that you don't have to get exalted to earn the best gear. Earning revered, even with every faction, isn't that daunting for someone who wants to log in and play regularly. Exalted is about prestige and vanity rewards, of which are best are often mounts. We want those mounts to take some amount of effort but they also aren't something you "need" in the game in order to do other content. I don't think it will be a brutal grind, and ideally you'll have fun along the way, but at the end of the day we want the game to be about playing to earn rewards, not just earning rewards, if that makes sense.

This is further reinforced by removing 310% flight from What a Long Strange Trip it's Been. If I spend an entire year getting the achievements on multiple toons (because I don't want cooking or fishing on one toon for instance), then I should get it on all toons. You guys told us LESS THAN A YEAR AGO that 310% was indeed a perk for WALSTIB. So a lot of people have been working towards it since then BECAUSE you told us.
We had to change that design though in order to allow account-wide mounts, which we suspected would be an even more popular feature. With account-wide mounts, every alt you ever made would have 310% flying for free had we not made that change. We want playing an alt to be about playing an alt, and not having that alt immediately as powerful as your main (though there certainly are a lot of shortcuts).

When players start getting forced to play every single day just to keep pace, you no longer have a game, you have a job.
I agree with that overall, but the definition of "forced" is pretty slippery. Some players might feel forced to play because they really, really want a nice mount.

I fundamentally believe, though there is a fair bit of data to back it up, that players lose interest when they can no longer progress their character. There are two main ways you can fail to progress. One is that you finish everything and there is nothing else to do. The other is that the tasks you want to do feel so insurmountable that you lose the urge to try. The former can be a problem if content is too gated and players are held back too often. The latter can happen when encounters feel impossible or the grind seems never ending. The challenge is to strike the right balance where players who can't play a lot feel like they aren't falling far behind, but players who want to play a lot feel like they have something to do. We can't cater to either extreme and just dismiss the other.

Those players who are complaining about nothing to do have plenty to do. Their problem is they aren't doing it. They are generally focused on one type of content (usually raiding) to the exclusion of all other. When they run out of new raid content, when they've received all the loot they want, they sit there and complain about nothing do it.

They could be going back to do the existing faction dailies but they don't. They could be farming old content for fun and maybe items to sell on the AH for transmog but they don't. They could be questing to experience the lore and storylines that have changed since the release of WoW, and especially in the Old World zones for Cata, but they don't. They could be engaging in Archaeology or fishing but they don't. They could be doing Arena or rated BGs with friends, but they don't.

Their complaints are all based on not having enough of one specific type of content when WoW is home to multiple types.

There is always more to do in the game if you look for it. Theoretically, I could tell a player that they could organize a huge roleplaying event on their server, or try to kill every boss in the game in one day, or try to /hug every NPC in Kalimdor, but that may not be anything they are interested in. Players are actually fantastic at creating their own fun -- just look at stuff like the Ironman challenge. But again, that's not going to appeal to everyone.

One of the challenges we have with maxing out professions or completing achievements or leveling alts or playing BGs is that players have done it all before. Sure, with a new expansion they'll have an opportunity to do some of that content again, and if we're lucky some of it will feel fresh, but overall we think we need to offer new plays to play as well. Then, we also have to structure the reward system in such a way that goal-oriented players are interested in pursuing that content in order to earn those rewards. That is ultimately how the endgame of MoP came to be designed.

We understand the concern from players with many alts that while Valor of the Ancients provides a form of Valor catch up for alts, that we could stand to have a Faction catch up for alts. That's a reasonable request and something we will investigate.

To state our philosophy very simply, leveling four characters should require a lot more work than leveling one character, but there is no reason it needs to take four times as long. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Content Difficulty and Consumption Speed
extra mechanics. take rogues and druids, stealth through the dungeon. take a shaman healer, use Symbosis or whatever on him / her, they get stealth. run through the dungeon and kill crap. That's basically your extra mechanics.
Except for the fact that there're requirements through the challenge dungeons that force you, among other things, to kill a set number of creatures on the dungeon to complete the objective, so ignoring pulls won't net you anything.

Also, you want challenging content, and your answer to that challenging content is that, rather than doing it you'd just stealth through it...

Why should "bud" have similar rewards than those that dedicate alot more time into mastering the game? Its like paying for a vacation while the next gets maybe a day less of the same vacation but has to pay alot less. I would feel like getting kicked in the balls.
Except he doesn't. Hardcore raiders have heroic titles, heroic only bosses/bosses with heroic only phases, heroic mounts, achievements for those heroic kills. "Bud" wouldn't get that on the LFR.

Curiosity: Initially this mode appealed to me. And then it dawned. Let's say I make my A-team for this, run through it, get gold. What reason is there to go back? In other words, what is the replay value of this extra mode (rehashed nonetheless)?
If noone on your realm ever beats your time, none. If you don't care about getting to the top of the table for that dungeon in your realm, none.

In the other hand, if you want to show that your team is simply the best, you'll probably keep going back many times, as with gear normalization there's just no other way to do it faster than through improving efficiency.

How hypocritical of you, as always. Challenge mode's purpose is to finish the dungeon as fast as possible. That means that any way to do it is to be taken into account in order to do it asap.
If you go out of your way (not you, specifically) to ask for challenging content and speak about how much you love challenging, difficult content, but then proceed to say that you'd just skip the pulls in those dungeons, then something doesn't add up. Because in fact, what you'd be doing by skipping pulls, is making your way through difficult content by just not fighting it, which doesn't sound (at least to me) like actually wanting to face challenging content.

Honestly for challenge modes I was just expecting and wanting really tough bosses/pulls. Not arcade style speed runs.
I'll reiterate it again: Challenge mode is tuned higher than Heroic, there's additional pulls and mechanics, and there's a criteria you need to fulfill (similar to Scenarios) in order to complete the challenge. In that criteria there's a number of creatures to be defeated inside that dungeon. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Legendary Items
I feel like there is a lack of legendary items. Obviously this is because they are meant to be super rare and I understand this...Keep them very hard to get and taking the majority of the expansion to farm for.
Would the legendaries just end up as 'the' weapons to have for each class though? To the point where people wouldn't be considered for guilds/raids unless they have it, assuming the updated stats were as good as they were originally. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Suggestion: White-Worgen
It’s a cool idea and we might consider it for the future, although right now, we don’t really have any plans to implement additional worgen color options. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Paladin (Forums / Skills)
Retribution Changes
The easiest way to handle this is to tell us:

What was your damage before?
What is your damage now?
What do you think your damage should be?
Is someone beating you that you think should not be?

Numbers are going to go up and numbers are going to go down until launch, and possibly after. It's going to be an exhausting few weeks if every number change we do launches threads that I'd characterize as "Don't nerf me bro."

also about all those damage reductions do you guys do that incrementally while testing or reduce damage now and test later??? Seems to me it's more of a nerf everything now and do testing exclusively later then if it doesn't work bring it back! Correct me if I'm wrong on this!
No, we do a lot of testing and agree on which specs need to come up or down and then figure out the best strategy to adjust that damage. We are doing more across-the-board buffs or nerfs these days (or hitting passives) since we aren't in most cases trying to change priorities or rotations, just hitting overall DPS.

A really typical situation for us to be in at this stage in development is that DPS gradually crept up because inflated damage numbers were covering up for a lot of bugs. Now that those bugs are all getting fixed, and now that things like underpowered talents, glyphs, set bonuses and the like have been adjusted, then DPS has inched up for almost everyone. At this point we have nerfed almost every class except rogues and Feral druids, who just happened to be pretty close to our target numbers already. (I'm guessing Arms will be okay or need buffs, but we're not there yet.)

No, not really. That's why you need numbers. Which you still didn't give. What does middle-of-the-pack dps mean in the context of beta? What if the top half are all the untuned specs?
Yeah. And if middle of the pack is offensive, then who exactly should be middle of the pack? Healers? Then who is at the bottom?

The danger of displaying DPS in a stack rank (which is what World of Logs and most sites do, as wonderful as they are overall) is that it's a stack rank. If you're middle of the pack but the guy on top is 200 DPS ahead of you, that's not really a difference, though it can be arresting when displayed visually.

I'm not trying to sound patronizing, but a strategy we use is to divide things into buckets. Look at the bars that are close together and put those into buckets. If the Shadow priest, Ret paladin and Enhance shaman bars are all close together, then put them into a bucket and call that "high dps" even if the Ret is above the shaman. If the next series of bars looks noticeably smaller, cluster those together and call them "medium dps." There might be one bucket or there might be 5-6, but even in a 25-player raid you don't often see 25 buckets.

That's YOUR job and YOUR job only to ensure all classes are on an even plane. It's our job to report our findings with the class we play. This isn't a "Don't nerf me bro." thread idiot.
Are we calling each other names now? That could be fun. Tragically, I have moderators on my side, so I'll probably win.

We're totally comfortable doing our jobs. We have targets for DPS and we strive to hit them. We also appreciate feedback from the community and we give you an opportunity to point out potential problems. However, if you want to convince us that we need to change our numbers, the burden of proof is on you. We're not going to seek permission from the community to balance the game the way it needs to be balanced.

You said "Damage before was higher than damage now." Yes, we know. We nerfed the damage. Is it too low now? Why? By how much? What's your argument? If anyone could just post on the forums "My damage is too low now," and we had to buff based on that, we'd be in an interesting (but perhaps very entertaining) situation.

HoW being usable throughout AW is a key Paladin attribute.
We think using Hammer of Wrath during Avenging Wrath was a fun change for paladins that made wings more than just a percent increase to all damage. I'm not sure we would immediately buff Hammer of Wrath if we left it only as an execute. I understand that Execute and Shadow Word: Death are fun, but we don't really want Hammer of Wrath to be a mirror of those abilities. We have enough mirrored abilities already.

I can appreciate that it's a change you would make if you were in my shoes. I fully acknowledge that this is a very subjective business. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Warrior (Forums / Skills)
Double Time Changes
Double Time works like Roll or DK runes. We are still struggling a little bit with how to describe the "charge" mechanic, which works fairly intuitively once you play with it. We're really trying to avoid "Your Charge has two charges."

(We heard you liked Charge, so you can charge while you Charge....) (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Raid Testing Schedule - August 10-13
If you are interested in the raids and not in beta, check back this weekend during testing, as we will have streams up throughout the testing period.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Over the next few days, we will be testing quite a number of raid encounters.

Each encounter should be available at approximately the listed times below for all Beta Test Realms, regardless of suggested geographical region.

Friday, August 10th
Feng the Accursed (Mogu'shan Vaults) - 25 Player Heroic
10:30 PDT (13:30 EDT, 19:30 CEST)

Blade Lord Ta'yak (Heart of Fear) - 25 Player Normal
12:00 PDT (15:00 EDT, 21:00 CEST)

Garalon (Heart of Fear) - 25 Player Heroic
13:30 PDT (16:30 EDT, 22:30 CEST)

Elegon (Mogu'shan Vaults) - 25 Player Normal
16:00 PDT (19:00 EDT, 01:00 CEST)

Saturday, August 11th
Wind Lord Mel'jarak (Heart of Fear) - 25 Player Heroic
10:30 PDT (13:30 EDT, 19:30 CEST)

Protectors of the Endless (Terrace of Endless Spring) - 25 Player Heroic
12:00 PDT (15:00 EDT, 21:00 CEST)

Gara'jal the Spiritbinder (Mogu'shan Vaults) - 25 Player Heroic
13:30 PDT (16:30 EDT, 22:30 CEST)

Imperial Vizier Zor'lok (Heart of Fear) - 25 Player Heroic
15:00 PDT (18:00 EDT, 24:00 CEST)

Sunday, August 12th
Amber-Shaper Un'sok (Heart of Fear) - 25 Player Heroic
10:30 PDT (13:30 EDT, 19:30 CEST)

Spirit Kings (Mogu'shan Vaults) - 25 Player Heroic
12:00 PDT (15:00 EDT, 21:00 CEST)

Tsulong(Terrace of Endless Spring) - 25 Player Heroic
14:00 PDT (17:00 EDT, 23:00 CEST)

Monday, August 13th
Stone Guard (Mogu'shan Vaults) - 25 Player Heroic
10:30 PDT (13:30 EDT, 19:30 CEST)

Will of the Emperor (Mogu'shan Vaults) - 25 Player Heroic
13:00 PDT (16:00 EDT, 22:00 CEST)

Lei Shi (Terrace of Endless Spring) - 25 Player Heroic
16:00 PDT (19:00 EDT, 01:00 CEST)

As always, this testing schedule is very fluid and subject to the realities of a beta environment. We might have to change the time of a testing session or cancel it entirely, due to bugs, builds, server hardware issues, etc. Keep an eye on this forum for the latest information, and thank you in advance for testing and providing feedback.

Given the breadth of this testing session, it's perhaps more likely than usual that one of these sessions will need to be rescheduled or switched to a different boss. We'll keep this thread updated with any such modifications.

European World of Warcraft Invitational at gamescom 2012
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
It’s time to see which arena team reigns supreme in the 2012 European World of Warcraft Invitational at gamescom!

Discover the intense thrill of 3v3 arena combat as you watch eight of the best World of Warcraft arena teams in Europe duke it out to determine the top dog. See as players like Khuna, Braindeadly, and Hoty fight epic battles for a piece of the $30,000 USD prize pool, with the top two teams moving on to represent Europe at the Battle.net World Championship in China!

With ReDeYe hosting the tournament and Azael and Conradical casting the matches, you’re sure to be on the edge of your seat every second.

You can see the action starting at 10:00 CEST on Sunday, August 19 at the Koelnmesse in Cologne, Germany. The tournament will take place at the Turtle Entertainment booth and be streamed live on the big screens at the Blizzard booth.

If you’re not able to make it to gamescom in person, don’t worry – you can check out the free 720p ESL stream online. No matter which way you choose to watch, you won’t want to miss the electrifying battles as these pros compete for glory.

Click here for more information on Blizzard’s activities at gamescom 2012, or visit the official gamescom site for info on the event.

Evil Geniuses Hosts World of Warcraft Invitational
If you missed the Curse King of the Hill WoW Invitational, there is still more PvP for you to watch this weekend! Evil Geniuses has a tournament with $2,000 in prizes that will be cast by EG.Azael and Conradical, taking place on the Arena Pass Realm. It starts at 3 PM EDT on August 11 and 12, so be sure to watch if you are interested in PvP!



Curse Weekly Roundup
Pico is here again with news about Uncharted, DayZ, Minecraft, Google's new Nexus 7 tablet, Konami, and Sound Shapes!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Experience to Level Changed, Character Creation Gear, Blue Posts, Weekly Roundup started by chaud View original post
Comments 225 Comments
  1. Turvakapsu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBoy View Post
    Another thing I find amusing, is that probably a lot of playerbase who are saying "how dare these scrub casuals infest *my* game, who put in less effort than me, and earn Heroic loot months after I did," are the probably same people now saying "how dare Blizzard force me to put in as much effort to level to 90 as these scrub casuals. I want to be 90 instantly, so I can raid!" I bet they're even probably the same people who are raging at Blizzard for holding back raids for a week after launch. And yes I'm not saying all hardcore or server-first players are like this, but the vocal minority are.
    Don't jump to conclusions. Because I've posted on the thread about the XP change you probably consider me a part of the vocal minority but claiming things you've no idea of is ridiculous. Why would you say, without anything to back it up, that I or any other person in the forums would be 'raging at Blizzard' for holding their raids back for a week? I'm all in on that, that is a great thing and I appreciate it a lot.

    I have also never said that those said 'scrub casuals' are infesting my game with their LFR or other stuff. LFR or any other more casual-friendly thing doesn't affect my gaming experience in any negative way. Why would I be upset if Blizzard gives other people a way to earn gear besides from organized raiding? It doesn't take anything away from me, so why should I care?

    Some people just lack common sense.
  1. johnyderp's Avatar
    >grinding dungeons
    >fun
    you and your friends have strange view of fun
  1. lewisderp's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by GeekyArcher View Post
    So the "hard cores" are upset because leveling isn't hard and they hate doing it?

    Hmm.. I used to be a hard core raider and you know what I hate now? Wiping on a boss at 10% over and over, I hate that feeling of downing something just to find out that the gear I needed didn't drop. I hate that feeling when we kill the boss and boomkin gear drops and there are not fucking boomkins.
    So why can't I just have a button that gives me everything I want from a certain raid?

    Because let's be honest here, unless you are the world first/realm first, raiding is not that hard. It's scripted fights, there are even addons that tell you when the next "big cast" is coming. Yogg 0 was the only thing I had seen from WoW that made me think we were going back to old raiding days. The hardest part of raiding is finding the other 9/24 people don't have mental deficiencies and decide to stand in fire, pull aggro, etc. After that it's learn fight, watch video, rinse, repeat.
    Let me have all my professions at max level at the push of a button for that matter, because after all leveling professions isn't that hard either.

    You newer "hard cores", don't know the first thing about hard core. Raid Sunwell before the nerf then we will talk.

    You guys sound like those stupid kids that would use rare candies on their Pokemon so they could be level 100...

    It may be rose colored glasses or nostalgia, but you "wow kids" have no clue what a hard time to do things in WoW is. Mad hunters are getting nerfed yet again? Try dealing with a dead zone. Don't want to push so many buttons? Try mashing ONE FUCKING BUTTON for years as a hunter. ONE. You could literally macro your entire rotation to ONE button. Sure you may not do as much damage as a hunter managing his pet cooldowns but I watched many a hunter do it.
    Hell I can't even bitch about the difficulty really, the true Veterans of WoW that played sine DAY ONE of vanilla are the ones would could talk about hard. I started only two months before BC, and rerolled when BC dropped, but I know this, if you had ever suggested half the crap you guys are right now back then, you would be too embarrassed to show your "face" in a forum again. You would have been ripped apart.

    You kind of do have a button to give you a load of epics, it's called raid finder.

    But I do get what you're saying, I mean its shocking that people would actually not enjoy the brainless grind to 85 and beyond, why can't everyone like the same thing? I mean people should just be exact carbon copies of each other, because that's the fantasy world I love to live in.
  1. Azlarn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by therayeffect View Post
    There's no challenge in leveling. If leveling was actually engaging and shit I wouldn't mind it. Personally I was pretty indifferent to leveling, because it was only like 15 hours or so. I don't consider leveling content either. It's all gather X and kill Y. It took me 3 weeks to reach 80 back in the day because I actually had a job then and worked 80 hours a fucking week. EXCUSE ME for not being able to no life the game because I had to work so much. Thankfully I'm working a whole lot less now so I can actually be a hardcore raider. I'm also not going to be raiding 1 night a week. Here's our current plan:
    -Max level main (max level profs, know how to play all specs)
    -Max level alt ( know how to play main spec, BE RAID READY first week)
    -Raid Schedule:
    *Monday - Thursday * 7pm ST - 12pm ST (Sundays 7pm ST - 12pm ST if Necessary)
    BRING TO RAID:
    ~200 potions
    -Flasks
    -Food
    -Enough gold for repairs
    Expect approximately 50+ wipes a week.
    Theorycrafting is assumed.

    I'm sorry that you guys are so blinded by nostalgia that you can't see through your rose tinted goggles anymore. Very few high end raiders like leveling. All this change does is add 24 more hours of leveling to my schedule. It's extending 'content' that I find to simply be a chore and work. In fact the majority of people who like leveling are actually the super casuals (who are the majority of the game). This is why I asked for an "I'm 90 button" because a lot of people who don't raid like questing and there's no reason to take their fun from them, though Blizzard sure loves taking hardcore raiders' fun.
    Pretty much this, I hate leveling and I hate questing, and I know many other people who feel the same way. We're also planning to do something similar with our raid team and since I'm a high school student, the release date is bad enough, let alone making me have to skip school for more than 1 day to even be able to compete in the realm first lvl 90 race. The change in the xp required makes it so much worse. People have alts, with those alts they can go see the quests or dungeons they had skipped when they were leveling their mains quickly so they can actually start doing real content.
  1. Dasn's Avatar
    dat paladin set
  1. nemro82's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by therayeffect View Post

    Welcome to the world of The Hardcore player. We don't get shit while casuals get everything.

    .
    hahahahahha, couldnt stop laughing when I saw that. is this guy for real?
  1. Dewragg's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Exploitbat View Post
    So... is the xp you get from quests still the same then?
    yes, it's still the same is why alot of people are upset... lol
  1. Tumaras's Avatar
    I'm fine with the mop xp to level increase. I always found it a bit silly that in both wotlk and cata you could easily level to the cap only doing like 1/2 of each zone, and I'm sure alot of people missed out on the storylines of many of the zones until they did. I know I did the same thing and it wasn't until I did went through them on a few alts that I got to see them all the way through, and would have missed out on some good ones. You shouldn't be required to do every quest in every zone of course, there still needs to be plenty of choices and an relatively open path for everyone. But having to experience more of the content before being bored at the cap isn't a terrible thing imo.
  1. Dzudzadzo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SolTheDruid View Post
    There are people who like questing and there are people who don't like questing, but like raiding. Just accept that simple fact.
    There are people who like having relationships and there are people who don't like relationships, but like sex. Just accept that simple fact.
    Now, first ones can get what they like immediately regardless of how much XP it takes to get a level-up. Because you can still do quests at lvl 90, obviously.

    Second ones can't get what they want, until they do something they don't like (questing). But how is it good for the first group of people? How is it good for the game? I mean, Blizz could make leveling 10 times faster and those who like questing would still get what they want. Why make it slower instead? It only makes the second group of people feel bad about the game, and nothing else.
    Because there must be a limit to how much the game can change based on player's "feedback". What we have here is players actively questioning the very feature that makes RPGs what they are. Sorry but RPGs are exactly what they are about, they are about a journey or series of journeys from bottom to top, from zero to hero, the measure of progress is in levels, gears and gained skills/spells along the way. Are we to push off what makes RPGs what they are because we developed a playerbase that has the nerve to demand core game mechanics changes? Where will it stop?

    I can understand that some players have gronw extremely tired because of this but that is not because the feature is bad, but because they are oversaturated with it. Are candies suddenly bad because someone was eating them for very long and now suffers obesity issues? ofcourse not! Anyone remembers the login screen tip?

    "Take everything into moderation (even World of Warcaft)"

    If one player grows bored of leveling in RPGs it is not a signal to remove it. It's a signal for that players to try something else. It's not a game designer's fault that some players play the game for so long to the point where only very specific features are the only things they find entertaining
  1. Tomana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumaras View Post
    You shouldn't be required to do every quest in every zone of course, there still needs to be plenty of choices and an relatively open path for everyone.
    Currently, it is not the case on beta with the increase XP. That is precisely the problem.
  1. Meldon's Avatar
    maybe they have increased the % exp a player had and not only the maximum required because i'm almost lvl 90 and i have yet to see 2 regions of pandaria
  1. Turvakapsu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    Because there must be a limit to how much the game can change based on player's "feedback". What we have here is players actively questioning the very feature that makes RPGs what they are. Sorry but RPGs are exactly what they are about, they are about a journey or series of journeys from bottom to top, from zero to hero, the measure of progress is in levels, gears and gained skills/spells along the way. Are we to push off what makes RPGs what they are because we developed a playerbase that has the nerve to demand core game mechanics changes? Where will it stop?

    I can understand that some players have gronw extremely tired because of this but that is not because the feature is bad, but because they are oversaturated with it. Are candies suddenly bad because someone was eating them for very long and now suffers obesity issues? ofcourse not! Anyone remembers the login screen tip?

    "Take everything into moderation (even World of Warcaft)"

    If one player grows bored of leveling in RPGs it is not a signal to remove it. It's a signal for that players to try something else. It's not a game designer's fault that some players play the game for so long to the point where only very specific features are the only things they find entertaining
    Good god, can you please actually read? No one has asked to remove anything, only a way to skip it. Nothing goes away from you. Seriously. Nothing. And how does that login screen tip affect anything? I only level to play the high-level game. I understand your point with the login screen tip but I don't understand why you're pointing it out since you're basically saying get a life.
  1. Yakuchin's Avatar
    The exp change is awesome!! I luv leveling up and experiencing every zone. Cata was lame because I got to 84 in Deepholm and then I had to go to Twilight Highlands and never saw other zones with my toons. I'm glad they did this, it's gonna feel like an epic journey <3
  1. Tomana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuchin View Post
    The exp change is awesome!! I luv leveling up and experiencing every zone. Cata was lame because I got to 84 in Deepholm and then I had to go to Twilight Highlands and never saw other zones with my toons. I'm glad they did this, it's gonna feel like an epic journey <3
    Yeah, and when you will do all quests and still not be 90, what will you do?
    Problem is not that XP was increased (it was needed), problem is it was increased way too much, to the point you (almost) have to do all the quests in game, linearizing it Cata-style.
  1. Yakuchin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Yeah, and when you will do all quests and still not be 90, what will you do?
    Problem is not that XP was increased (it was needed), problem is it was increased way too much, to the point you (almost) have to do all the quests in game, linearizing it Cata-style.
    Run a few dungeons? do dailies? look for more quests? I don't mind. Getting to 90 is not really my priority as long as I get to go around questing. When I got Cata, it took my 4 months to get to 85. Rushing to top level is sooo boring, it takes all the fun away.
  1. Tomana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuchin View Post
    Run a few dungeons? do dailies? look for more quests? I don't mind. Getting to 90 is not really my priority as long as I get to go around questing. When I got Cata, it took my 4 months to get to 90. Rushing to top level is sooo boring, it takes all the fun away.
    Good for you, but my objective is to get to 90 ASAP. While I don't mind questing (I need the greens for enchanting anyway), I do mind grinding mobs and jumping unprepared into dungeons.

    Especially, since starting from Townlong steppes, I'll have to respec every time I turn a quest in because of the dynamic rewards >_<
  1. Bellentino's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Good for you, but my objective is to get to 90 ASAP. While I don't mind questing (I need the greens for enchanting anyway), I do mind grinding mobs and jumping unprepared into dungeons.

    Especially, since starting from Townlong steppes, I'll have to respec every time I turn a quest in because of the dynamic rewards >_<
    Made that mistake in Wrath, I was hellbent on getting to 80 to start raiding only to be pretty disappointed... I should have taken my time with the quests, that was pretty much the only good thing.
  1. FixDestruNow's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by GeekyArcher View Post
    So the "hard cores" are upset because leveling isn't hard and they hate doing it?

    Hmm.. I used to be a hard core raider and you know what I hate now? Wiping on a boss at 10% over and over, I hate that feeling of downing something just to find out that the gear I needed didn't drop. I hate that feeling when we kill the boss and boomkin gear drops and there are not fucking boomkins.
    So why can't I just have a button that gives me everything I want from a certain raid?

    Because let's be honest here, unless you are the world first/realm first, raiding is not that hard. It's scripted fights, there are even addons that tell you when the next "big cast" is coming. Yogg 0 was the only thing I had seen from WoW that made me think we were going back to old raiding days. The hardest part of raiding is finding the other 9/24 people don't have mental deficiencies and decide to stand in fire, pull aggro, etc. After that it's learn fight, watch video, rinse, repeat.
    Let me have all my professions at max level at the push of a button for that matter, because after all leveling professions isn't that hard either.

    You newer "hard cores", don't know the first thing about hard core. Raid Sunwell before the nerf then we will talk.

    You guys sound like those stupid kids that would use rare candies on their Pokemon so they could be level 100...

    It may be rose colored glasses or nostalgia, but you "wow kids" have no clue what a hard time to do things in WoW is. Mad hunters are getting nerfed yet again? Try dealing with a dead zone. Don't want to push so many buttons? Try mashing ONE FUCKING BUTTON for years as a hunter. ONE. You could literally macro your entire rotation to ONE button. Sure you may not do as much damage as a hunter managing his pet cooldowns but I watched many a hunter do it.
    Hell I can't even bitch about the difficulty really, the true Veterans of WoW that played sine DAY ONE of vanilla are the ones would could talk about hard. I started only two months before BC, and rerolled when BC dropped, but I know this, if you had ever suggested half the crap you guys are right now back then, you would be too embarrassed to show your "face" in a forum again. You would have been ripped apart.
    Totally agree with you!!! Very well written post, kinda says it all.

    There isn´t anything "hardcore" about WoW today, not a singel thing!!!
  1. theturn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Good for you, but my objective is to get to 90 ASAP. While I don't mind questing (I need the greens for enchanting anyway), I do mind grinding mobs and jumping unprepared into dungeons.

    Especially, since starting from Townlong steppes, I'll have to respec every time I turn a quest in because of the dynamic rewards >_<
    They still haven't changed that shit? Good lord, guess its time to make another post about, such a stupid system
  1. Amsden's Avatar
    I love questing and leveling so I don't really care how long it takes to hit 90 I'll will do all the quests anyway, so that change doesn't really matter to me. I like how that preview armor looks better than a lot of the recent tiers they have come out with.

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