Separate 10 and 25 Man Raid Lockout and Reward Changes in Korea

Originally Posted by Ausr

Oh joy, 25 man will be the prefered way of playing to get the top gear again. 10 mans get screwed over.

Nope. You don't have to do a 25 man. Do it if you want to do it. If ilvl is so important to you, then run a 25 man. If you are just looking to have fun, stay where you are. They are not going to force you to run 25's so you can just clamp down that nonsense. You would only run 25's if YOU WANTED THE GEAR. Since you want it, that means that it's what you choose to put as a high priority for yourself. Soooooo... Not sure how anything changes.

If you like 10's run 10's. If you like 25's, run 25's. But don't put down 25's because they get high ilvl when there is more work needed to run them. It's just selfish.

Originally Posted by Korgoth

25 =! 10

Corrected it there for you.

If they do this they should just delete 10 man raid mode completely. I'd stop playing, but at least they could balance their damned raids against a single raid size.

This has to be a prank of some sorts. There's no way anyone would do this. Plus they misspelled "while".... please tell me it's a prank. If anything, the system should stay the same, you should just have more loot per person drop and more valor (isn't that the way it is now?)

Originally Posted by Kinkiey

NOOO just no .........

Alot of people may think it will bring back 25 man guild, but some server barely get 10 man gets together ....
Tbh this is going back to icc ..... just talking bout the Ilvl change here ofc!!!

Difference in item levels isn't anywhere as huge as it was in WoTLK. Its less than 1/3 of WoTLK difference. That makes 10 man gear almost as good as 25 man and 10H gear way better than 25N.

Originally Posted by Darkblazer

So right now every 10-man raider...is Quiting that because of gear....
So they do 10-man because of gear?

Do 25 man raiders do that because of gear? If so, what's the difference? If not, why would they need better gear?

In my opinion, the change to a "proper" choice between 10/25 in Cataclysm was one of the best changes so far. It means I don't get penalized of preferring to play with the people whose company I enjoy, rather than the people I need to fill out an arbitrarily sized raid team. Admittedly, there's still some aspect of that, but finding 9 people you like is obviously much easier than finding 24 people you like.

Originally Posted by Soulfighter101

This has to be a prank of some sorts. There's no way anyone would do this. Plus they misspelled "while".... please tell me it's a prank. If anything, the system should stay the same, you should just have more loot per person drop and more valor (isn't that the way it is now?)

Its a translation, not direct Blizzard quote. Hence the spelling mistake.

Originally Posted by markdall

If they do this they should just delete 10 man raid mode completely. I'd stop playing, but at least they could balance their damned raids against a single raid size.

Why should they delete it? Why do people care so much if other people want to play content in a diffrent way?
The people who are a bit more hardcore do the more hardcore stuff, the people who want to do the casual 10 mans do what they want.
Just because your item level isnt the same shouldnt matter at all!

separate lock, 25/10 same items, 25 man just gt drop 3 times more, and not like ds that you had better chance getting tier loot in a 10 man than a 25 man(maybe give a random tier drop from each boss that drops tier in addition to the ones that drop, or on bosses that has alot ov weps drop but always drop the same armor item, always will drop a extra wep/shield. so many things blizz could have done to save 25 man raiding but they dont really care, it's all buisness to them.

Originally Posted by therayeffect

You have that backwards. In 10man it's tuned so tightly (this tier) that if someone dies even for 15seconds, you're fucked. There's so little room for error in 10man compared to 25man. Thing is though, I don't care anymore. This change is so awesome that I don't have to listen to this shit anymore. It's finally fucking over, we can go back to 25mans being the clear best and we don't have to worry about easy or not 10mans are. Best fucking MoP feature yet.

Did you see Paragons video of Will of the Emperor heroic? They lost 3 players the last 3-5 minutes of the fight.

Originally Posted by gilias

I'm sorry, but I'm definitely against the whole iLevel difference. If you want to give 25s even more gear that's fine. I don't mind the concept that I, as a 10m raider, can reach the same gear as everyone else but it just takes me longer.

What does piss me off is the idea that because you're a 25m guild that your time is more valuable than my time. We are defeating the same content, and spending the same amount of time doing it (minor 10m/25m difficulty difference tweaks aside). LFR is considerably easier and thus they have lesser reward. 10m/25m are close enough and it's the same time spent. I'm sorry that it's taking the 25s a little more time to clear the content, but gear changes affect everybody. Realm firsts only affect a few QQers.

It's not like 10m bosses are changing or anything.

As of now, 25m bosses take longer to kill than 10m bosses. If loot on 25m were of better quality than that might even out the time it takes to clear the instance on each lockout.

I doubt 5 extra ilvls is going to make 25m as easy as 10m and it definitely won't make it the easier difficulty.

Originally Posted by Melilithia

I LOVE how people think they're forced to do anything while playing WoW.

To keep up with the server rank that you had before the change you'd have to do as much gearing as possible which means running double raids so you are kind of forced to run them to stay where you were before the patch. If you don't people who are willing to do more will overtake you.

I really don't get people getting upset about this change, and I truly hope it will come to EU and US just because it needs to be done. If you don't like 25 man raids, then do 10 man, no one is forcing + the 10 man raid gear was always enough for the upcoming 10 man raids, you lose nothing. You wanna be the best? Well Mister Hardcore then go hardcore and do 25man heroic raids (requires a lot more coordination and patience).

Originally Posted by Binki

Difference in item levels isn't anywhere as huge as it was in WoTLK. Its less than 1/3 of WoTLK difference. That makes 10 man gear almost as good as 25 man and 10H gear way better than 25N.

Doesn't matter. It could be a 1 ilvl difference. Ten man raiders are still getting inferior gear simply because they are ten people, while 25 man raiders are still getting better gear simply because there are more of them in the raid. As long as there's a system that gives you rewards simply because you invited more people into the raid group, the people who prefer to play with their friends are going to get annoyed.

Originally Posted by gilias

I'm sorry, but I'm definitely against the whole iLevel difference. If you want to give 25s even more gear that's fine. I don't mind the concept that I, as a 10m raider, can reach the same gear as everyone else but it just takes me longer.

What does piss me off is the idea that because you're a 25m guild that your time is more valuable than my time. We are defeating the same content, and spending the same amount of time doing it (minor 10m/25m difficulty difference tweaks aside). LFR is considerably easier and thus they have lesser reward. 10m/25m are close enough and it's the same time spent. I'm sorry that it's taking the 25s a little more time to clear the content, but gear changes affect everybody. Realm firsts only affect a few QQers.

We re not defeating the same content (i am currently a 10 man raider too).
Neither it takes the same time for a 25 man guild to defeat it.
Neither it is as easy to create a group to defeat the content in 25, even if difficulty was excactly the same.

2 Years ago 10 man raiders were ruthless. We all knew where this would end up still they wouldnt give (you know what) for the thousands of guilds that would downsize or disband.
You fail to aknowledge that in order to defeat content, the group that is able to defeat it must be created.
And when -since to create a larger group you need infinately more time- you get nothing in return, you stop at the option that is more acessible if it gives access to all.

The real choice would be
"To stop at 10 and enjoy X or strugle and create a 25 and enjoy X+Y?"
That is a choice, unlike, "same all chose 10 or 25?", because it asumes that two equaly skilled groups are right there for you to chose one from!
Raiding groups are not sweets in a pastry shop...

WTF! bring this to US servers! we still have valor caps and idc about higher i lvl items for the 25 - i just want to be able to participate and pug 25s while doing my guild ran ten mans again!!!!

This needs to come back to the US servers as well.

Originally Posted by tehdef

Nope. You don't have to do a 25 man. Do it if you want to do it. If ilvl is so important to you, then run a 25 man. If you are just looking to have fun, stay where you are. They are not going to force you to run 25's so you can just clamp down that nonsense. You would only run 25's if YOU WANTED THE GEAR. Since you want it, that means that it's what you choose to put as a high priority for yourself. Soooooo... Not sure how anything changes.

If you like 10's run 10's. If you like 25's, run 25's. But don't put down 25's because they get high ilvl when there is more work needed to run them. It's just selfish.

That's crap. Reverse that in your mind and think about how you'd feel. If 25 mans gave lower ilvl gear would you be so "unselfish" as to not care? No, no you wouldn't. It's against our nature. Not even human nature, either:

I hope this comes to the US too. I can appreciate the 10/25 lockout merger experiment.

How else can you really know? The "logic" of such a complex system is never so cut and dried.

Anyway, it is a failed experiment. Merrily we move along.

the 20 posts crying about and praising this are coming.