Separate 10 and 25 Man Raid Lockout and Reward Changes in Korea

About fucking time Blizz. There's no way this won't make it to the west, seeing as the high end world firsts would pretty much be screwed if they didn't because of the gear advantage Koreans would have. Finally I don't have to listen to idiot 25man players saying that 10 is easier difficulty-wise when this tier obviously proves the opposite. The problem is that the differences are massively obvious to anyone who looks into both difficulties and it's like designing a whole new raid when trying to balance 10man and 25man when the raid comp is completely different. Took them 2 fucking years to get their heads out of the sand and listen to us but at least we got them to listen.

I just hope you'll separate korean progression.

meh for all i care they can keep it in their guinea pig region since i don't raid 25 man anyways.

Won't happen in the west, but I guess I can appreciate that they adapt the game to the asian counterpart.

Separate lockouts give too much of an advantage to 25man over 10, being able to get gear a lot faster. Also responsible for the burn-out we saw in WotLK.

THE RIGHT DIRECTION. i stopped progression raiding years ago, but IMO MMOs need to go back in the no life direction. I don't have time anymore, but I'd love to read about MMOs going back to their true form. they're meant to be played no-life style. sorry, there are tons of games you can play if you have a life. MMOs are for moms basement, students, etc. and that is the deal. If you've got kids and soccer practice and shit you should NOT be playing a life sucking thing like a MMO. don't do it. its detrimental and you know it is.

Sorry, its just reality. We need full loot, XP loss on death.... bring it all back. NO more BOP, just make everything tradeable. Lets do it, classic MMO style

SO that way if I ever get laid off I can have something to look forward to, LOL

Originally Posted by Lannen

I would really enjoy having 10 and 25 back to the way they were on US servers. To those saying it "screws 10man guilds" or something along those lines, your argument makes no sense. Essentially you're saying that you want to put in less time, less effort, and reap the same rewards as people organizing and participating in 25man raids. That's absolutely not fair to the people who would rather do 25man...if you don't have the time or the guild to do the hardest content, you don't deserve the best gear, it really is that simple regardless of what anybody tries to claim. And to further expand - if you are only doing 10man raids, why do you NEED 25man level gear? The answer is you don't, so who cares if your 10man drops weaker gear than a 25man.

The only people putting in more time for 25 man raids are maybe the officers. Your argument is invalid.

25 man is harder then 10m? You guys are smart. Dont worry. Go do them both. Clear both 6/6 and let me know how easier it is to spread crystal on heroic stone guard 10m then 25m. Kk. Or to heal elegon voodoo doll xtra 2 targets in 25m with 4 additionnal healer. And thats just some exemple to show you that 25m is NOT harder then 10m. Not even remotly close. Get your shit straight. Kty. This is stupid and hope it only stays in KR. Made me quit back in wotlk. and ill quit again.

Originally Posted by therayeffect

About fucking time Blizz. There's no way this won't make it to the west, seeing as the high end world firsts would pretty much be screwed if they didn't because of the gear advantage Koreans would have. Finally I don't have to listen to idiot 25man players saying that 10 is easier difficulty-wise when this tier obviously proves the opposite. The problem is that the differences are massively obvious to anyone who looks into both difficulties and it's like designing a whole new raid when trying to balance 10man and 25man when the raid comp is completely different. Took them 2 fucking years to get their heads out of the sand and listen to us but at least we got them to listen.

25 man is harder, 1 death on heroic means you will fail the dps requirement. 25 chances to fail.

Whereas on 10 man, if it is tuned to be difficult like 25 mans, only means 10 chances to fail.

I really hope they implement this in EU too...

Originally Posted by Showtimes24

25 man is harder then 10m? You guys are smart. Dont worry. Go do them both. Clear both 6/6 and let me know how easier it is to spread crystal on heroic stone guard 10m then 25m. Kk. Or to heal elegon voodoo doll xtra 2 targets in 25m with 4 additionnal healer. And thats just some exemple to show you that 25m is NOT harder then 10m. Not even remotly close. Get your shit straight. Kty. This is stupid and hope it only stays in KR. Made me quit back in wotlk. and ill quit again.

< Have heroic will down 25 man. My pally has it 10 man. Guess what noob, 25s are way harder, you just suck.

Also LOLOLOLOOL at heroic Stone guard 10 man comment. That literally put the biggest smile on my face. We went in there with our 10 man alts and legit just laughed at how easy it was.

Originally Posted by tuuvaak

THE RIGHT DIRECTION. i stopped progression raiding years ago, but IMO MMOs need to go back in the no life direction. I don't have time anymore, but I'd love to read about MMOs going back to their true form. they're meant to be played no-life style. sorry, there are tons of games you can play if you have a life. MMOs are for moms basement, students, etc. and that is the deal. If you've got kids and soccer practice and shit you should NOT be playing a life sucking thing like a MMO. don't do it. its detrimental and you know it is.

Sorry, its just reality. We need full loot, XP loss on death.... bring it all back. NO more BOP, just make everything tradeable. Lets do it, classic MMO style

SO that way if I ever get laid off I can have something to look forward to, LOL

Agreed. Game needs to become more hardcore, just like Vanilla and TBC.

I raid lead 25s for 4 years until the Dragon Soul patch launched, so I may have a little more experience with the recruiting game than most of you. I was fully in support of the same gear for 25s and 10s at Cataclysm launch. The result, though, was that 25 man recruiting took it on the chin way more than anyone expected. The already difficult task of maintaining a 25 man raid roster became much more difficult.

I'm currently running 10 mans, not by choice, but because there are about 12 people that I met in my 25 man guild that I don't want to play without, and there is literally no way to get recruits excited about a guild just making the jump to 25s.

Don't think that everyone that is raiding 10 mans is doing so because they don't like 25 mans. There are, I'm sure, plenty of people that prefer 25s, but don't want to make the jump because it takes time to establish a 25 man raid group. It means asking your players to go through an extended period of worse raiding, to reach a period of great raiding, with a well-oiled 25 man raid.

This change, or at least the seperation of raid locks, is needed to make the choice between 10 and 25 a truly free and fair one.

At least its one way of admitting that 25 mans are more difficult than 10s. If they didn't think that then they'd have made the item levels equal.

I wish we could just play in korean servers I would transfer my toon there

I want the option to run both again dammit... let the nolifers like me have their seperate lock outs back.

Originally Posted by Detraxi

Im ok with everything but the iLVL difference. Just because im dealing with 15 less people in managing my guilds raids does not mean we deserve weaker loot. That was a WOTLK mistake. Really hoping this gets altered before US/EU market.

Of course it does, 10 man being easier than 25 man is common knowledge , not sure why you'd even think to complain about that.

Originally Posted by Delana

I raid lead 25s for 4 years until the Dragon Soul patch launched, so I may have a little more experience with the recruiting game than most of you. I was fully in support of the same gear for 25s and 10s at Cataclysm launch. The result, though, was that 25 man recruiting took it on the chin way more than anyone expected. The already difficult task of maintaining a 25 man raid roster became much more difficult.

I'm currently running 10 mans, not by choice, but because there are about 12 people that I met in my 25 man guild that I don't want to play without, and there is literally no way to get recruits excited about a guild just making the jump to 25s.

Don't think that everyone that is raiding 10 mans is doing so because they don't like 25 mans. There are, I'm sure, plenty of people that prefer 25s, but don't want to make the jump because it takes time to establish a 25 man raid group. It means asking your players to go through an extended period of worse raiding, to reach a period of great raiding, with a well-oiled 25 man raid.

This change, or at least the seperation of raid locks, is needed to make the choice between 10 and 25 a truly free and fair one.

I am in exactly the same position as you are, been running my guild for 6 years as 25M, only changing to 10s in MoP due to attrition/burnout and that it's fucking ridiculous trying to recruit for 25s over 10s when there is no advantage for one over the other. Only difference is I hated the idea of making 25 and 10 equal at the start of Cata. I liked the separation because I knew exactly what it was going to do to 25M guilds when it was implemented.

Separate lockouts are peachykeen, but I'm going to be really irate if they implement the item level change for other regions mid-expansion after people have already built their raid teams for Mists. A lot of us dropped to ten because we prefer it socially and logistically and it would be amazingly uncool if we needed to flip back to 25man in the middle of an expansion to continue competitive raiding. If they want to go back to the old way, then fine, but they need to do it between expansions.

Maybe I am just paranoid and this is just a special Korea thing but if they are testing the waters for the rest of us... ugh.

Please bring it to EU as well. 10man is so fucking boring I don't even feel attending the raid anymore. Finding 25man lfr a much more fun experience then 10man raiding with guild. Please bring this to EU so that raiding is finally RAIDING again!

Originally Posted by Furypie

Why the hell would anyone but the absolute top want 2lockouts per week? Also i doubt the majority of people would want this, atleast not on us/eu servers.

I'm definitely not among the top, or an elitist...but I LOVE TO RAID! With 2 separate lockouts, I could raid each week till I explode if I choose. >