MMO-Champion - Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes
Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Coming to the PTR in the near future will be a new designation of item type in Normal and Heroic raids for non-tier pieces. Each 5.2 raid boss will have a chance of dropping this new designation of a particular item that’s 6 item levels higher than their counterparts. These higher quality versions will be called “Thunderforged”. This means that there will be five variations of some items. You’ll now see a 5.2 raid item of LFR quality at item level 502, the same item in Normal quality at item level 522, the item in Normal Thunderforged quality at item level 528, the Heroic version of the item at level 535, and the Heroic Thunderforged version of the item at level 541.

This new item designation is being added for a couple reasons, but first and foremost to make loot drops more interesting overall, especially after you have earlier bosses in Throne of Thunder on farm. As you’re working on progression, those first few bosses can now continue to provide a chance at upgrades, making repeated kills potentially more exciting and rewarding. Those additional upgrades can then help to slowly raise power, and boost you over whatever progression roadblock you may hit.

We’ve also received a lot of feedback regarding 25-player raids, and have been looking for ways to address some concerns. Ever since we changed 10-player raids to drop the same item level as 25s, we’ve seen a steady decline in 25-player raiding. This isn’t surprising. A 25-player raid takes an extra level of logistical commitment for the officers of those groups. It’s unfortunately easy for a 25-player guild to collapse down into a 10-player guild, but very unlikely for the opposite to happen. However, we like 25-player raiding and don’t want to see it go away. Like many players, we love the epic feeling that comes with banding together more massive groups to battle powerful foes, we love that there’s opportunity for those groups to try out new players or unusual comps without causing a huge burden, and we want to support the larger raiding guilds. That said, we’re also concerned that over-rewarding the 25-player guilds—if, for example, we went back to a higher item level across the board for 25s, as was the case for Icecrown Citadel—would feel like a slap in the face to the many 10-player raiders out there, who are the majority of our Normal and Heroic raiders.

To attempt to navigate this minefield, we’re going to try having Thunderforged items drop more frequently in 25-player raids. They’ll be somewhat rare in both cases compared to the standard versions that’ll drop, but they’ll be even rarer in 10s. Overall, a 25-player group will be more likely to end up with a slightly higher item level after several weeks of raiding.

It’s important to keep in mind that this only affects 10- and 25-player Normal and Heroic raids, and tier-15 armor pieces won’t be available in Thunderforged quality at all. We’re curious to hear your thoughts about these changes, and what you think once you begin seeing them on the PTR.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes started by chaud View original post
Comments 369 Comments
  1. Ovan's Avatar
    This is just the Crystallized Firestones from Firelands all over again except now you need the actual piece to drop vs an item to upgrade a piece.
  1. AVPaul's Avatar
    This feature has two edges. From the one POV it's good to have extra chance to get loot from bosses, but from the other side...you know...what if it became mandatory to farm this items? And that means, that we will have even more grind.
  1. samiam30's Avatar
    Here is a brilliant idea! Lets add more RNG to loot drops. I'm sure 10 mans will love this idea. And while we are at it lets lower the drop chance for 10 mans to sweeten the deal.
  1. zylathas's Avatar
    In my opinion (no bashing intended) this idea is horrible, especially the 502 itemlevels that have been posted which makes raiding just pointless for anyone that does not do herioc hof/terrace cause LFR gives better stuff anyway.

    I also think another gear tier is too much, we have 4 which I find too much already, 5 (actually 6) is just way too much.
  1. Uselessrouge's Avatar
    this is realy bad...

    if you look at 10man raiding

    oh wait raiding hero since weak1 since it was available , some items NEVER DROPED not even 1 time.. and now giving them even more loot easyer? nah sounds like a realy bad thing..



    its like DS i raided HC EVRY WEEK evry boss... at the end of the content i was missin 1 item for my BiS Gear... thanks to that now 10 man raids will never get BiS gear... at thats what some poeple are aiming for.. i know its not important to have it but hell its what makes "ME" and surely many others grind raids for a minimal motivatition or satisfaction ^^
  1. Jacob6875's Avatar
    Stupid imo. IF people have more fun in 10 player raids what is the point of trying to force them to run 25s? It didn't work in earlier expansions and probably won't work now.

    Also adding MORE RNG to the game? That is the last thing we need. This is going to cause some guilds to get geared up much more quickly by getting lucky with the new thunderforged drops while some guilds will never see any or see very few due to bad luck. This is just like legendaries such as warglaves. Some guilds get 20 of them while others get 0 during the entire expansion........ which is not fun.
  1. Ataxus's Avatar
    This sounds like a total nightmare. Going to literally take ages to get BIS gear, and it's a new level of RNG.
  1. ganush's Avatar
    This a meaningless change that will not help 25 man raiding at all. All it will do is confuse loot councils and players deciding what to use upgrades on (assuming the bring the feature back in 5.3). Loot and iLvl's are just getting needlessly convoluted.
  1. Moosie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    RNG is RNG.
    Blizzard logic, Add more RNG. Don't get me wrong, this change isn't bad if you are one of the ones which constantly gets items. What about the ones that never seem to get anything. This won't solve that.
  1. I change my name a lot's Avatar
    To fix 25 man.... you are going to add more RNG? Haha wth
  1. Arbs's Avatar
    Hurray for 25 man Raiding !!!, But can we have ICC iLevels back too.
  1. aoha's Avatar
    This minor change isn't going to stop the still current decline of 25man raiding...
  1. Skyepic's Avatar
    Biggest issue i see with this in terms of progression raiding guilds:

    A lot of hardcore progression raiders (myself included) enjoy eventually getting their full BiS set at some point during that tier (sometimes on multiple characters). Once your full BiS is achieved (along with most of your other guildies) it allows you to take a break from raiding and still be ready at the best possible advantage for the next tier of content (every previous piece of gear from a tier matters when going for top world/region/server rankings). With this implementation it is VERY VERY VERY unlikely for even ONE person (minus maybe a tank) to ever reach a full BiS set now. Under the assumption a full BiS set would be your best itemized pieces thunderforged. I feel top guilds are going to feel it necessary to raid every single week (probably multiple 25 mans) from the start of one tier until the start of the other because there is ALWAYS going to be that possible thunderforged upgrade for them off a boss. Which could result in a MASSIVE burn out of top tier players because they don't get the break in between tiers that they are used to.
  1. Chickat's Avatar
    Sounds good to me.
  1. Vongimi's Avatar
    They have sound reasoning... but I just don't like it. This introduces a new host of problems. Can't VP upgrade heroic gear, gotta save it for that Thunderforged heroic gear! Thunderforged Heroic weapons are likely going to be dominant in PvP. Many things can go wrong. And the fact that it doesn't effect tier items is another issue. Downgrading gear to get set bonuses just feels awkward, now its going to happen even in BiS gear. But if it makes the majority happy, I'm not complaining. Ill take a little change I don't like if its going to overall be good for the game.
  1. simland's Avatar
    This will be painful for people with OCD and NEEEEED BIS gear. On the other hand, this is great for raid groups who's main goal is to get down all bosses.
  1. Nerraw's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by razorback07 View Post
    Blizzard logic, Add more RNG. Don't get me wrong, this change isn't bad if you are one of the ones which constantly gets items. What about the ones that never seem to get anything. This won't solve that.
    I don't get upgrades all the time. I finally got my tier helm last week after having gotten nothing for more than a month. It's annoying, but it's the nature of the game and it always has been.
  1. Smilezor's Avatar
    sounds like a good change to me
  1. Gobbansaer's Avatar
    RNG at it's finest...worst solution. Now top notch guilds need to farm even more to stay competitive. wp blizz wp
  1. Naquadah's Avatar
    Well, atleast it's something for the 25's.

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