MMO-Champion - Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes
Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Coming to the PTR in the near future will be a new designation of item type in Normal and Heroic raids for non-tier pieces. Each 5.2 raid boss will have a chance of dropping this new designation of a particular item that’s 6 item levels higher than their counterparts. These higher quality versions will be called “Thunderforged”. This means that there will be five variations of some items. You’ll now see a 5.2 raid item of LFR quality at item level 502, the same item in Normal quality at item level 522, the item in Normal Thunderforged quality at item level 528, the Heroic version of the item at level 535, and the Heroic Thunderforged version of the item at level 541.

This new item designation is being added for a couple reasons, but first and foremost to make loot drops more interesting overall, especially after you have earlier bosses in Throne of Thunder on farm. As you’re working on progression, those first few bosses can now continue to provide a chance at upgrades, making repeated kills potentially more exciting and rewarding. Those additional upgrades can then help to slowly raise power, and boost you over whatever progression roadblock you may hit.

We’ve also received a lot of feedback regarding 25-player raids, and have been looking for ways to address some concerns. Ever since we changed 10-player raids to drop the same item level as 25s, we’ve seen a steady decline in 25-player raiding. This isn’t surprising. A 25-player raid takes an extra level of logistical commitment for the officers of those groups. It’s unfortunately easy for a 25-player guild to collapse down into a 10-player guild, but very unlikely for the opposite to happen. However, we like 25-player raiding and don’t want to see it go away. Like many players, we love the epic feeling that comes with banding together more massive groups to battle powerful foes, we love that there’s opportunity for those groups to try out new players or unusual comps without causing a huge burden, and we want to support the larger raiding guilds. That said, we’re also concerned that over-rewarding the 25-player guilds—if, for example, we went back to a higher item level across the board for 25s, as was the case for Icecrown Citadel—would feel like a slap in the face to the many 10-player raiders out there, who are the majority of our Normal and Heroic raiders.

To attempt to navigate this minefield, we’re going to try having Thunderforged items drop more frequently in 25-player raids. They’ll be somewhat rare in both cases compared to the standard versions that’ll drop, but they’ll be even rarer in 10s. Overall, a 25-player group will be more likely to end up with a slightly higher item level after several weeks of raiding.

It’s important to keep in mind that this only affects 10- and 25-player Normal and Heroic raids, and tier-15 armor pieces won’t be available in Thunderforged quality at all. We’re curious to hear your thoughts about these changes, and what you think once you begin seeing them on the PTR.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes started by chaud View original post
Comments 369 Comments
  1. kritor's Avatar
    I thought the Thunderforge stuff was supposed to be Blacksmithing based? Or at least that's what the patch notes said the other day.
  1. Filth the Warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Migas11 View Post
    Hello, my name is migas11, my warlockian nickname is Azgraal, i am a 10man raider, been one for years, and i agree with these changes with all my heart.

    It doesn't hurt 10man groups, and has a little change of rewarding 25man groups. I am happy.
    It only hurts in the sense that you and I, who both raid 10 man, can now officially call ourselves second class raiders (as opposed to first class raiders, who raid 25 man).
    I'm butt hurt and me and the other officers will be discussing pros and cons of merging after the raid tonight.
  1. Lilija's Avatar
    Unfortunatly, it won't stop the decline of 25 man raids.
  1. Jokerfiend's Avatar
    This can only help people just looking to progress in the Tier. Thunderforged should be something as a treat and not expected. Yet, people, like some in this threa,d only see it now as ANOTHER thing they have to get. You people are never happy and never will be.
  1. Geekissexy's Avatar
    I don't think this is going to be enough to stop the decline of 25 man raids, I think it's just to keep some the ones that are still going happy.
  1. shoju's Avatar
    look, it's the TOC syndrome all over again, but this time with an added element of randomness. Yes. more ilvl variations is surely the answer.
  1. Lyrax's Avatar
    This is a woeful idea... As a 10 man raider who enjoys 10 man solely because of the small group, and you get to know everyone better, I feel its unfair to differentiate between 25 and 10 man as almost different difficulties. 25 man is more complex yes, but 10 man still is challenging, and if you lose a player its a wipe pretty much, which is unlike 25 man. Tbh, I dnt think its fair if 25 man get an increased droprate on these new higher ilvl drops, as it means 25 man guilds will down the raid quicker overall than 10 man groups, even whenever we're doing the exact same boss, with the exact same mechanic, only increased HP on boss and adds. Seems as if they're trying to fix something which isn't broken, which is always a trend from wut i've seen that blizzard like to do
  1. hanabi12's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by nimryas View Post
    I'm against this change.. You should be playing 25 man because you like playing with 24 other players instead of 9, that is your own effing decision. You should not care about 10 man when you do 25 man, its about you, your fellow guildies and the game. NOT about you and other irrelevant players who, according to you, dont deserve certain kind of items.

    I fucking hate whiny bitches, die in a hellfire pl0x :')
    Looks like the only special olympic candidate complaining is you. 25 man is more important than 10 man, and now we will get even better loot than you at a higher rate, how does that make you and your awful guild feel? Oh and there's nothing you can do about it, and we won't die in a hellfire because hell doesn't exist Enjoy nerd raging
  1. rogas's Avatar
    Thank god they gonna try to save 25man raiding! Cheers for that !
  1. Razecog's Avatar
    I am Razecog and I am a 10 man raider which approves of this change.
  1. kaamila's Avatar
    this feels like in ds where if you were in a 25man guild, mostly everyone had their random drop bis trinket whereas 10man youd be lucky to have 1-2 drop in the entire tier(didnt get my cunning until 6 months after we had 8/8H on farm.) im not bothered that much by this since 25mans have always been more geared than 10mans, this just means theyll be more geared, but at least we can eventually get the same items over time.
  1. -Tuigan's Avatar
    I would really like to know how this will help the "dying" 25man bracket? The reward shouldnt be in something rng but something that you achieve with time and only award those who run the show. This will imo only result in never ending farming of the raid tier... no rest after everyone has gotten full bis as you probably never reach that point with another rng factor.
  1. Marooned's Avatar
    I feel better rewards for 25 man is coming in future, they just don't want sudden changes, they'll adjust the rewards/loot/achieves progressively over time on future releases. Although I feel this alone is also a nice change.
  1. Venant's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    Biggest issue i see with this in terms of progression raiding guilds:

    A lot of hardcore progression raiders (myself included) enjoy eventually getting their full BiS set at some point during that tier (sometimes on multiple characters). Once your full BiS is achieved (along with most of your other guildies) it allows you to take a break from raiding and still be ready at the best possible advantage for the next tier of content (every previous piece of gear from a tier matters when going for top world/region/server rankings). With this implementation it is VERY VERY VERY unlikely for even ONE person (minus maybe a tank) to ever reach a full BiS set now. Under the assumption a full BiS set would be your best itemized pieces thunderforged. I feel top guilds are going to feel it necessary to raid every single week (probably multiple 25 mans) from the start of one tier until the start of the other because there is ALWAYS going to be that possible thunderforged upgrade for them off a boss. Which could result in a MASSIVE burn out of top tier players because they don't get the break in between tiers that they are used to.
    Is this any different from having to kill H LK for months so that everyone in the raid can get the mount? The argument that you are going to make the hardest of the hardcore raiders burn out because you make them... raid, is somewhat silly. Apparently you also make hardcore raiders burn out if you make a tier last too long or be too challenging, because then you just have top end guilds raiding like maniacs for weeks on end like in tier 11. I think that when you decide to be a hardcore raider you know what you are signing up for.
  1. Chief Brouhaha's Avatar
    This is perfect in my opinion! Congrats bliz on coming up with a good idea for how to handle the situation!
  1. Gaman's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrax View Post
    This is a woeful idea... As a 10 man raider who enjoys 10 man solely because of the small group, and you get to know everyone better, I feel its unfair to differentiate between 25 and 10 man as almost different difficulties. 25 man is more complex yes, but 10 man still is challenging, and if you lose a player its a wipe pretty much, which is unlike 25 man. Tbh, I dnt think its fair if 25 man get an increased droprate on these new higher ilvl drops, as it means 25 man guilds will down the raid quicker overall than 10 man groups, even whenever we're doing the exact same boss, with the exact same mechanic, only increased HP on boss and adds. Seems as if they're trying to fix something which isn't broken, which is always a trend from wut i've seen that blizzard like to do
    Hate to break it to you mate, but life is not fair.


    I think its a good change, wont see 90% of raiders in complete BiS at the end of a tier/expansion that lasted a bit too fucking long (DS)

    All in all they should just change it to a 15man in general, will fuck both over, but atleast the constant whining will stop.
  1. phyx's Avatar
    Well, at least it's something but doesn't really solve the problem.

    It's not about rewarding existing 25man guilds, it's about making a change that will sprung 25man raiding again without 10man bitching all around. This change won't do anything to anyone and 25man will keep dying.
    Also I love how every time they use "logistical effort" as the only distincion.
  1. Crummy's Avatar
    Well there you go.
    I'm still sticking to 10man since that's where it's at for me.
  1. Pasture's Avatar
    From a 'loot bidding' perspective this is horrible. You have your normal gear and you're starting work on heroics. Do you want to use your loot position on the 'Thunderforged' when you're working toward heroic loot and miss our on heroic quality?

    I understand the reasoning and from and as a 10 man player it doesn't bother me 25 mans have a greater drop chance. I just think the various ilevels are going to make loot bidding clunky and see these new items wind up wasted.
  1. Shaley's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Filth the Warlock View Post
    It only hurts in the sense that you and I, who both raid 10 man, can now officially call ourselves second class raiders (as opposed to first class raiders, who raid 25 man).
    I'm butt hurt and me and the other officers will be discussing pros and cons of merging after the raid tonight.
    This dude serious? The drop rate is only going to be slightly different. Probably on par with the amount of Tier Pieces that drop in 10 v 25. You're going to change the landscape of your guild because of an RNG item that you can get in 10 man also?

Site Navigation