MMO-Champion - Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes
Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Coming to the PTR in the near future will be a new designation of item type in Normal and Heroic raids for non-tier pieces. Each 5.2 raid boss will have a chance of dropping this new designation of a particular item that’s 6 item levels higher than their counterparts. These higher quality versions will be called “Thunderforged”. This means that there will be five variations of some items. You’ll now see a 5.2 raid item of LFR quality at item level 502, the same item in Normal quality at item level 522, the item in Normal Thunderforged quality at item level 528, the Heroic version of the item at level 535, and the Heroic Thunderforged version of the item at level 541.

This new item designation is being added for a couple reasons, but first and foremost to make loot drops more interesting overall, especially after you have earlier bosses in Throne of Thunder on farm. As you’re working on progression, those first few bosses can now continue to provide a chance at upgrades, making repeated kills potentially more exciting and rewarding. Those additional upgrades can then help to slowly raise power, and boost you over whatever progression roadblock you may hit.

We’ve also received a lot of feedback regarding 25-player raids, and have been looking for ways to address some concerns. Ever since we changed 10-player raids to drop the same item level as 25s, we’ve seen a steady decline in 25-player raiding. This isn’t surprising. A 25-player raid takes an extra level of logistical commitment for the officers of those groups. It’s unfortunately easy for a 25-player guild to collapse down into a 10-player guild, but very unlikely for the opposite to happen. However, we like 25-player raiding and don’t want to see it go away. Like many players, we love the epic feeling that comes with banding together more massive groups to battle powerful foes, we love that there’s opportunity for those groups to try out new players or unusual comps without causing a huge burden, and we want to support the larger raiding guilds. That said, we’re also concerned that over-rewarding the 25-player guilds—if, for example, we went back to a higher item level across the board for 25s, as was the case for Icecrown Citadel—would feel like a slap in the face to the many 10-player raiders out there, who are the majority of our Normal and Heroic raiders.

To attempt to navigate this minefield, we’re going to try having Thunderforged items drop more frequently in 25-player raids. They’ll be somewhat rare in both cases compared to the standard versions that’ll drop, but they’ll be even rarer in 10s. Overall, a 25-player group will be more likely to end up with a slightly higher item level after several weeks of raiding.

It’s important to keep in mind that this only affects 10- and 25-player Normal and Heroic raids, and tier-15 armor pieces won’t be available in Thunderforged quality at all. We’re curious to hear your thoughts about these changes, and what you think once you begin seeing them on the PTR.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes started by chaud View original post
Comments 369 Comments
  1. Bluegirl91's Avatar
    Yeah, awesome change... /sarcasm.

    Now everybody in the guild will bitch and moan even longer to get a raid spot for every boss....
  1. Thamyor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Wycked View Post
    25's require more coordination, and more personal awareness.
    That's pretty wrong, as the important mechanics are done by few people in 10 man and even fewer people in 25 man, most mechanics aren't multiplyed by the number of people in the raid, like Garalon Pheromone, the Light Ball on the last phase of Sha of Fear in Heroic, Titan Spark on WIll of the Emperor, and the list goes on...
    We had our best 25 man on our server break to turn 10 man, after saying many times the same thing you said, they took their best 12 players and made a raid, they still have the same bad progression they had before turning to 10 man. What would happen if you took the 10 worst people of the 25 man to turn in 10 man?

    Usually the coordination in 25 only affect a few peolple, most of the raid will just mindlessly dps or Heal while avoiding the dangerous mechanics, you will never have a mechanic that the entire raid will have to cooperate to do, like you on 10 man on some fights like Garalon, Emperor (on Cds to deal with Titan Sparks),
  1. Wycked's Avatar
    That's pretty wrong, as the important mechanics are done by few people in 10 man and even fewer people in 25 man, most mechanics aren't multiplyed by the number of people in the raid, like Garalon Pheromone, the Light Ball on the last phase of Sha of Fear in Heroic, Titan Spark on WIll of the Emperor, and the list goes on...


    Pass list for our first heroic garalon kill was 23 people long. (Ergo, faster passes, more difficult)
    There are significantly more titan sparks on emperor 25 man up at the same time requiring more coordination.
    Just did champion of the light this week for the first time on my spriest, its the most retard proof mechanic i've ever done. Make two macro's, win. That easy mechanic doesnt lower the difficulty enough to make up for the increased likelyhood that people are going to murder others with spouts (since there are more of them all squeezing into roughly the same area)

    Literally every example you listed was incorrect.

    We had our best 25 man on our server break to turn 10 man, after saying many times the same thing you said, they took their best 12 players and made a raid, they still have the same bad progression they had before turning to 10 man. What would happen if you took the 10 worst people of the 25 man to turn in 10 man?


    As for the 25 man that swapped to 10 on your server not killing more bosses. They're probably pretty shitty, one on our server did that over xmas break and literally doubled their heroic progression. Only to come back and not be able to repeat most of them on 25m.



    Usually the coordination in 25 only affect a few peolple, most of the raid will just mindlessly dps or Heal while avoiding the dangerous mechanics, you will never have a mechanic that the entire raid will have to cooperate to do, like you on 10 man on some fights like Garalon, Emperor (on Cds to deal with Titan Sparks)
  1. Creekstone's Avatar
    As a 10 man raider, I think this is a great change. For those guilds that have the players and dedication for 25 man raids, I think an added bonus is perfectly fine.

    Props, Blizzard. Great work!
  1. Etherius's Avatar
    I think this is a great idea. 10 mans will STILL get thunderforged items, 25's a slightly higher chance. It's a nudge to strive for balance between 2 types of raiding.
    Why make such a fuss over a 6ilv difference? It equals that of maybe half of a blue gem.. so in other words, virtually nothing.

    Seems the problem is a strive for getting the highest possible iLV, and "this" screws it up. Boo hoo - this game is more than just numbers.
  1. Scarsofwar's Avatar
    Now what i think this is a good idea.I used to do 25 man raids it doesn't take much coordination if you are used to it but the honest problem with 25 mans is getting people to commit, this just makes it easier. The honest question is, will the new tokens coming in 5.2 give the chance at Thunderforged gear for 10 and 25? or would it just be normal loot/gold chance.
  1. fireywrath's Avatar
    no not at all great. 10mans need that gear more it is way more demanding for 10 man groups we sometimes are forced to 2 heal stuff thats on a insane lvl when e dont have all the dps at the same lvl the idea that 25mans are harder is absurd look at how many heroic guilds actualy ran 25mans heroics for the first kills 25man is way to easy campared to 10mans us smaller guilds but yet still hardcore raiders simply have it tough if just 1 person dies on sertain fights its over for a 10 man 25 mans not to mention we dont have the luxuarly of 5 heals we have to freeking 2 heal some of the toughest fights sure it is possble we did it but its so much harder to overcome give 10mans the extra chance at thunder forged gear after all we only get 2 loot drops per boss 25mans get 5 and gear way faster. id be tottly for that if they add 3 drops for 10mans. but that will never happen
  1. Andrens's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragethorn View Post
    As a 10 man raider, I think this is a great change. For those guilds that have the players and dedication for 25 man raids, I think an added bonus is perfectly fine.

    Props, Blizzard. Great work!
    those thunderforged items looks neat indeed for raiding
  1. Emraz's Avatar
    This is welcome but doesnt go nearly far enough

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