Patch 5.2 Class DPS Balance
The ones that are played by players who know their class, the raid mechanics, and can adapt to situations on the fly.
I have nothing to add here.
No, I kid. But that was an excellent point.
Something that Ghostcrawler has brought up in the past is that top players will tend to hone in on a specific spec, and wring the most out of it. Parses are posted showing the results, and others follow suit. Soon the parses get dominated by players doing very well with a particular class and spec. Now, we know from internal testing that other options might be competitive, or even better, but because of the... uh, I guess I'll call it the 'echo effect', those specs never really get a chance to shine because everyone has already found something that works, and works well.
Of course, that's not always the case. Sometimes those other specs might not be getting spotlight time because they're much harder to get optimal performance out of, or other factors. Still, it's a real phenomenon.
The other thing to keep in mind is that we (as a community) have developed a strange relationship with damage numbers. Once upon a time, there were pretty broad differences in dps between the highest and lowest dps classes. Bringing the wrong class could have a real impact on your ability to win a fight. Over the years I think we've gone a very long way toward fixing that, and the gap between the different classes and specs has narrowed considerably. Instead of 50 and even 100% differences in output, now we're usually talking about 5 and 10% differences. At these ranges, skill, timing, and knowledge play a more central role than ever before in determining how much practical damage a class is capable of, and even the classes that aren't topping the charts are contributing essential and meaningful amounts of damage.
Don't get me wrong, I have fun vying for the top spot too. I'm just saying that even if your class isn't the #1 top damage for a particular encounter, you're still in a position to help make an important contribution to the fight and ensure that your raid group is killing bosses.
Not trying to quote out of context, but a 10% difference will never sit well with the bulk of the community. I'd even go so far as to say a 5% difference is probably too much. Yeah it's come a long way, but it simply doesn't work in the community's perspective on damage output.
I know, and I get it, but I also think that's kind of unfortunate. Due to vagaries in individual player capabilities, differences in class ability mechanics, latency, encounter design, the moon phase, etc., getting dps numbers within a couple % points of each other is extremely difficult. In some cases, it's not even desirable. What I mean by that is, it's cool that some classes perform better in specific encounters when their unique traits become valuable. As I said earlier, being top dps is fun, if it's you. It can be fun OR frustrating to shoot for that target if it isn't you. Regardless, the point of good dps is defeating encounters, which is much more a product of the raid's efforts as a whole, and their collective skill and knowledge.
Would we like dps (and tanking, and healing) output to be even more balanced, just on principle? It would be awesome. Is there a point of diminishing returns where constantly tweaking those things doesn't significantly impact the success or failure of players and raid groups in general? I think that's also the case. I'm not saying we can't do better, but we do have to prioritize our time to yield the best overall experience we can provide. We've made progress over time, and we'll continue to try to do so. In the meantime, I hope that most players feel like they can choose the class they want to play, and not feel like that choice is holding them back from being a productive member of their group.
This notion that a thin layer of elite players is leading the masses down the wrong path is cute. It's way more likely that your lab results, for whatever reason, don't translate perfectly in a live environment.
Oh, we know for a fact that lab results don't always translate into a live environment. I didn't use the word 'wrong' because it would be... well, wrong. Our theory crafting community is smart, and their analysis is sound. The specs and classes they advocate have been proven to be strong and effective, and are the top performers in many cases.
What I'm suggesting is that often other specs can still be viable, competitive, and better than they're presented to be by parses, but that's not always reflected because they didn't make the initial theory crafting cut. (
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Patch 5.2 LFR Item Level
A couple of points to make here.
First, the mere fact that item level
502 gear is available from Throne of Thunder LFR doesn't mean that the day patch 5.2 goes live, everyone will suddenly be handed a set of that 502 gear. The sections of LFR are going to unlock over time, and as a quick glance around the Raid & Dungeon forums will tell you, players sometimes only receive gold when defeating bosses, instead of loot (shocking, I know). Sure, maybe 3 months down the line, someone who has been running Throne LFR regularly will have slightly better gear than someone who's been doing Normal mode raids today. But the Normal mode raider who has spent those same 3 months in Normal mode Throne will have far superior items (
ilvl 522) by that point anyway.
Second, part of the reason that the items are ilvl 502 is the existence of the array of Valor gear to which LFR-only players have had access to throughout patches 5.0 and 5.1. Many LFR-only players have a number of 489 and 496 Valor items that they've purchased and perhaps even upgraded. If we'd made Throne LFR drop ilvl 496 items, as suggested, a large number of LFR-only players would find that many of the 5.2 LFR drops were barely upgrades, or even downgrades in some cases.
And just to anticipate a familiar criticism ("But if the point of LFR is just to see the content, then what do they even need gear upgrades for?") let me just say that meaningful rewards are important for every playstyle, and character progression is an integral part of WoW. (
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LFR Loot System Feedback
LFR loot system is a joke, really. I've looted a couple of items 2 times already, and T14 head and shoulders 3 times. Instead of giving us duplicates the whole time, fix your lootsystem so we actually receive items that we still need and benefit us.
That's not the point of the LFR loot system. It's not mean to conveniently help you fill your gear slots with what you're missing. Is a different loot system from what we're used to see, but, as in any other loot system, it might take a while before you see the item you want finally drop. (
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Is WoW Losing its Epicness?
With prestigious I mean the players that go all in and really gives their heart and soul to clear the most difficult encounters, setting a benchmark for the rest of us to strive for. While these players are a small % to the community as a whole, they are the forerunners and give others an incentive to push a little harder to get further. This is now slowly getting trivialized with pokemon, cute pandas, transmogs, LFR, daily rep gear better than raid gear etc etc.
This is where most arguments just lose it (for me, of course). You might, of course, strive to achieve what others have done, but projecting that same impression onto a majority doesn't really work. The fact is, most of the players probably can't even name the best raiding guild in the world, because they just don't care. So they might give an incentive to push to some folks, absolutely (those in the raiding competition, most likley).
Then you go on and proceed to argue that these other things that have nothing to do with bleeding edge progression raiding, for some reason, "dumb down" the game, when, in fact, it's just expanding the amount of choices you have at your disposal.
If the game loses it's focus on skills and perseverance, we're only left with the social aspects and I don't really see why we just couldn't sit on FB and play farmville or some pokemon app there?
If that's what you feel WoW offers to you, then I'm afraid you are not really looking at what those activities actually have to offer to any player that wants to do something else than bleeding edge progression raiding.
This paragraph makes it sounds like the 'prestigious raiders' are climbing Everest to collect medical supplies or something. They are people spending a lot of time on a computer game, not war heroes. I for one do not aspire to be like them, I just want to enjoy playing Wow.
Coriandra sums pretty well how some players feel. While for some of you raiding is everything that exists in WoW, for others is high-end PVP, for others is doing 5-man with their friends, challenge modes, scenarios, pet batlles, heck, it might be just flying around Azeroth just because they can.
The thing is, in a game as massive as World of Warcraft you can make of it whatever you want to, and it can't be a bad answer. As long as
you have fun, and feel like you're getting from the game something worth it, then there's no real harm if some people just want to PVP all day long, or if some players would rather see all raid content through Raid Finder without caring at all about world firsts.
Also, please realize that some of the casual players of today, will be the hardcore players of tomorrow; and some, if not all hardcores of today, will be the casuals of tomorrow. There's no benefit in acting like it's two separate ponds that aren't connected and pretending you will always be part of this one pond.
Based on what some of you have commented and what I saw yesterday both here on the forums and on Twitter, I'm just curious...
Why do you feel the game has been dumbed down when, in fact, heroic raid bosses (for example) are increasingly harder? You've probably seen even players arguing that this tier in Normal feels harder than it should as well.
I mean, I totally understand you feel the game is easier than before, but consider three things:
-If you're a dedicated player, your skill will improve at some point, and (most likely) at early stages your improvement will be more dramatic, so the room to make the game harder without being outright silly (numerically or mechanically) gets smaller (which should help put in perspective the amazing work developers do when coming up with new boss fight mechanics and concepts).
-Heroic raiding content is increasingly more difficult (just compare Heroic Ragnaros to Heroic Sha of Fear and to Kil'jaeden, both mechanics wise and leeway to meet enrage timers, etc)
-Most of the things you mention as being dumbed down don't really seem to target you. But rather a different segment of players that might still be getting the hang of the game or don't want/can't devote as much of their time into the game as they would like.
Considering all this, how does it affect you in a negative way (assuming that you are at the high-end spectrum) that the game is more accessible or there are more things to do for players that are not you specifically? (
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Thunderforged Tier Items
There are still no plans for tier items to be available with the Thunderforged designation. (
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"Raiding is too Difficult and Time Consuming"
Like why do I have to sit around in normals for 3 months wiping 8 hours a week to get anywhere? It was cool to release 3 raids, but whats the point if you're gonna make them so hard no one will even get to the second one before next tier? I thought normals were supposed to be easy and hms were supposed to be the hard raids? Wiping isn't fun... bring back DS difficulty. That was perfect for normals, people could actually do them in a respectable amount of time.
I can commiserate with your feelings, but the best thing you can do is share with us specifically what encounters or issues you're having. It may be something we may need to look at and address on our end, or it may be something that other players can give you additional insight on to make the encounters seem less difficult for you.
As I see it, these are the things that could be affecting how you and your Raid team are performing:
- You've found a bug or an imbalance in an encounter that's causing you issues.
- Your Raid team may not be using solid achievable tactics to approach the encounters and may need to refine them more.
- Members of your Raid team may not have the most appropriate gear for the encounters. which can cause additional burden on other members who do have appropriate gear.
- Members of the Raid team may need to change spell rotations or even talent options for specific encounters
Again, I think by citing specific issues and problems, you may find better success in overcoming them. (
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Mage (
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Patch 5.2 Mage Balance
The
Glyph of Evocation seems to have been updated on the PTR.
If you have the Invocation talent, a full Evocation will only heal you for 20%.
So, yes a mage will be able to spam it with the invocation talent, but since evocation reduces the channelling time and duration by 50%, this also means that it will heal exactly the same as it did before, since the glyph changed from 40% to 20% Health.
The old Invocation also had a 10 second cooldown, that means that although mages couldn't spam it, it wasn't that much different… Evocation used to last for 6 seconds, that means they would only have 4 seconds downtime on evocation and to be honest, going from 4 seconds of evocation downtime to 0 seconds, is not such a huge difference, because chances are, the first evocation that regenerated 40% HP for 6 seconds was enough of a buffer for the mage to wait 4 more seconds and move away or blink/frost nova/pet nova/sheep and do it again.
Still, I’m not trying to defend the changes here, simply stating some facts and my own opinion, keep in mind that anything is still subject to change and it’s exactly this kind of feedback that we need to make us rethink anything that might need tweaking. Thanks for keeping us on our toes. (
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Patch 5.2 and Flameglow
I think its cute that its implied blizzard have a board meeting about pvp balance and get a bunch of feedback from all the devs.
Of course they do, they have regular meetings to discuss both game balance and the feedback they receive from the community. Just because you do not agree with some changes does not mean that they ignore your feedback or don't care, they simply cannot implement every change that the community mentions, especially if they feel it's not entirely beneficial to the health of the game.
On the topic of the
Flameglow talent that is mentioned in this comic, I think there are some misunderstandings on how this new talent functions which I would like to address. First of all, this new talent for mages functions as follows:
Protects you with fiery energy, absorbing [ 20% of Fire Spell Power ] damage from each attack against you (up to a maximum of 30% of the attack).
Too many people are focusing on this talents potential to protect the mage from a maximum of 30% of an attack, where you must realise that under the more dire of circumstances where damage is high, it's protection is quite minimal. With most mages only just breaking 20,500 spell power unbuffed they will only protect themselves for a maximum of 7,000 damage with full procs and buffs, and 5,000 under normal buffed circumstances.
Let's take Ice Barrier which is also in the same tier as Flameglow, for a mage who has 20,000 spell power it will absorb approximately 70,000 damage. For Flameglow to absorb this damage at the same amount of spell power, you would need to take more than 17 hits where each hit does a minimum of 14,000 damage. Another situation you need to consider is that when big burst damage comes in to play.
If you are about to be hit hard, let's say you get hit by a big skill for 70,000 damage. At 20,000 spell power again, your Ice Barrier will absorb all of this, your Flameglow however will only absorb a measly 4000 damage and you will get hit for 66,000.
As you can see, Flameglow is certainly a good talent but it is not an outright winner against either Ice Barrier or even Temporal Shield. They all simply offer different situational uses and styles of gameplay. I would think that Flameglow works best against DoT's or lots of low damage, whereas Ice Barrier would be better against holding up against larger, more bursty damage. (
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Hunter (
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Powershot Fixes
Both Powershot and Glaive Toss have been rebuilt and should now always hit their primary targets, plus, they should also be much more responsive to secondary targets.
This new implementation of the two abilities isn’t on PTR yet but will be as soon as both abilities have been through QA. Once we have a new PTR build go live, feel free to test them and provide us with some feedback, this is when it is most important and when it can dramatically change what ends up going live. (
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