MMO-Champion - WoW Down to 9.6 Million Subscribers
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WoW Down to 9.6 Million Subscribers
Activision Blizzard's press release states that World of Warcraft is down to 9.6 million subscribers as of December 31, 2012. This is lower than the amount of subscribers from the "over 10 million" announced for Q3 2012. A few other interesting points:

  • Mists of Pandaria was the #3 best-selling PC game at retail.
  • Diablo III was the #1 best-selling PC game at retail, breaking PC-game sales records with more than 12 million copies sold worldwide through December 31, 2012.
This article was originally published in forum thread: WoW Down to 9.6 Million Subscribers started by chaud View original post
Comments 963 Comments
  1. Dakz's Avatar
    That is a good news, maybe they will start to listen player base wishes. I think that majority is PvP community cuz they fucked up so hard (again) Hopefully they can balance more in 5.2 so that we can expect WoW in near future to become eSport again.
  1. Zergal's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by AK_47 View Post
    Was to be expected, 6 months since Pandaria and the first REAL patch content is not out yet.
    On what planet do you live, its been 4 months, wich is completly acceptable between 2 raiding content patches.
  1. Duster505's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Before LFR and dailies there was nothing. You're bored? Go run around and kill stuff or herb. No dungeon finder so sit around in your major city and beg for a tank/healer! Or Raid and throw your face at a wall for 8 hours. Dailies were one of the alternatives for something to do.
    No - dailies in MOP offered not alternatives... they were pretty much the only way to progress at an acceptable rate. Too many RPG progression systems were tied to them. REP - Valor - Lucky tokens. Rep and tokens not possible to get any other way. Thats not alternatives. Thats the only way.

    Before LFR there were guilds. Guilds that had maybe not the best players in the world but still had players that were doing content in the game and socialising instead of screaming in LFRs.

    Blizzard should be looking to strengthening guilds in the game again. Good guild is for life. And Im not talking world first. And thats why WOW is now loosing subs.
  1. kojinshugi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Depends on the metric. On the money-making metric, popular = better. On the quality metric, popular != better. Just look at Twilight.
    Twilight isn't universally popular though. It has a very large audience among its niche demographic, but it's near universally reviled by others. WoW is like Star Wars - people from every walk of life and demographic enjoy it.

    Broad-based appeal seems to be the only objective way to ascribe quality to something. Because if you go by subjectivity, i.e. you and I considering Twilight and Justin Bieber to be horrible dreck, then we don't really have any basis of saying that the subjectivity of Twilight and Justin Bieber fans is not valid.
  1. Zokten's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    What numbers are these? I'm quite sure Blizzard doesn't release subscriber numbers for D3, what with D3 not having subscription.
    Yes, but people have being using xfire, how many people the D3 says is playing, etc

    Not sure how good all of it is but based on it, things don't look so hot.

    All I know is that the economy is doing fine whenever I pop in and play. Things sell fast and there's plenty of stuff available.
    I'd hope so there is a pretty hefty bot problem right now.

    And for all its co-op stuff, D3 is not an MMO. It's a glorified single player game. It doesn't need to retain millions of active players years after its release. In fact, it's better for Blizzard not to have to deal with launch-level numbers for years.
    Wasn't saying it was, just seems its not holding people's attention very well.
  1. Celista's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    You think it's terrible game design to not have the most optimal way of playing be "sit down and grind for two 12-hour sessions"?

    Seriously, get a job and a family and try doing that.

    Having to do 30 minutes of dailies every couple of days to remain competitive in an MMO endgame is not excessive. You may as well whine that raids lockouts force you to attend every week for months, instead of being allowed to spend a 72-hour caffeine fueled binge session getting full epics.
    It wasn't 30 minutes of dailies, it was 2 hours' worth of dailies at the beginning of this expansion. And that was only doing the dailies that rewarded gear for my class, that wasn't including Tillers for cooking or fishing dailies or the serpent riding dailies...

    Mob grinding vs dailies grinding IS more family friendly, wtf? Where are you even getting your rationale from? You can grind a lot or a little at once depending on how much time you have, unlike dailies which require you to log in every day.

    Both mob grinding and gating valor items behind rep and making dailies required in order to spend valor is bad, but dailies (as they are in MoP) are NOT an improvement from straight mob grinds. If anything they are even worse.
  1. Exodeus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    You think it's terrible game design to not have the most optimal way of playing be "sit down and grind for two 12-hour sessions"?

    Seriously, get a job and a family and try doing that.

    Having to do 30 minutes of dailies every couple of days to remain competitive in an MMO endgame is not excessive. You may as well whine that raids lockouts force you to attend every week for months, instead of being allowed to spend a 72-hour caffeine fueled binge session getting full epics.
    I have had a job and family since before i started wow and i prefer to do my grinding in the middle of the night or on days off tho my current job only allows me to play every other month.
  1. Bianconeri's Avatar
    WoW is still to MMORPGs what The Beatles is to pop music, what Star Wars is to sci-fi epics, what Muhammad Ali is to boxing. A decline is a decline, but I just have to laugh at the doomsayers.
  1. Sarthan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by AK_47 View Post
    Was to be expected, 6 months since Pandaria and the first REAL patch content is not out yet.
    I highly doubt you are 16/16h and have completed all the reputations.
  1. Methias's Avatar
    The people complaining about rep grinding would have loved Vanilla... AD rep grind for nothing other than cheaper Nax entry = win...
  1. dfjdejulio's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    im going to laugh at this comment when blizzard announces titan as either free to play or free if you have wow
    Now, "free if you have wow" is something I could easily see happening. Once they have more than one MMO, I could easily see them saying you have a "battle.net" subscription and not a "WoW" or "Titan" subscription. That may in fact be the path they take to mask a decline from investors.

    Given the precedent set by WoW, I do not think their investors would accept a straight-up F2P model for "Titan" right from the start, not based on the information we have today.
  1. beanman12345's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    A good artist to his fans, yes. Likewise, WotLK was a good artist to its players.
    LOL @ you thinking justin bieber is a good artist. that is hilarious. way to loose any credibility on this site.
  1. Raiju's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    yeah you completely ignored the fact that i said they dropped the first quarter... and the fact that the only person i was really directing that to was the one who said the highest subs wow ever had was 11 million in bc and again dlc and expansion IS the same thing its all about how much a company puts into it.

    if i make a game and then i sell an expansion to that game but the only thing thats in it is a vanity item then thats still an expansion
    If you never want to sell a game again and have everyone in appropriate countries get refunds by law, sure.

    Also I'm not sure if anyone would believe you if you advertised it. That or false advertising, another thing you'd have legal issues with.

    But please, go on about how your idea of expansions is both practiced and normal, and not DLC.

    I saw you said they dropped the first quarter, it still means nothing. Getting sales when you release a game means NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Look at Diablo 3. Look at Bioware. Getting sales means nothing if that franchise is a dying shadow afterwards. WoW hasn't had that happen (yet, although I don't believe it will), but basing anything off immediate sales is a fanboy argument at best when it comes to subscription games.

    He also stated that they hit 11 million in BC in response to someone saying they only had 6 million (and that 11 was the peak). Both are correct. He never said it was the HIGHEST, just that it peaked. Peaked. Because it was the peak then.
  1. Aquamonkey's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    Twilight isn't universally popular though. It has a very large audience among its niche demographic, but it's near universally reviled by others. WoW is like Star Wars - people from every walk of life and demographic enjoy it.

    Broad-based appeal seems to be the only objective way to ascribe quality to something. Because if you go by subjectivity, i.e. you and I considering Twilight and Justin Bieber to be horrible dreck, then we don't really have any basis of saying that the subjectivity of Twilight and Justin Bieber fans is not valid.
    There are also more technical valuations of those things. Like scene composition, script direction, character development, acting depth, dialogue, etc. These things aren't limited by genre. Even silly movies can have high quality in these aspects.
  1. Bathory's Avatar
    Oh no!! ONLY 9.6 million!
  1. Exodeus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Methias View Post
    The people complaining about rep grinding would have loved Vanilla... AD rep grind for nothing other than cheaper Nax entry = win...
    But then again if you played alot you were exhalted or close to it anyway from baron runs with friends :P
  1. lazzy's Avatar
    I think Blizzard is lying about the real numbers
  1. kojinshugi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    It wasn't 30 minutes of dailies, it was 2 hours' worth of dailies at the beginning of this expansion.
    It really wasn't. GL was the only one you needed to do and it took 45 minutes tops if you were geared like a hobo and going solo. Group up with people and it barely took 20 minutes. And there's always people around if you just quit being an antisocial loner for five seconds.

    This is the profile of the daily hater:

    1. See all possible dailies and removed daily cap.
    2. Assume against all common sense and simple arithmetic that this means you have to do everything now.
    3. Burn yourself out doing every single daily you possibly can.
    4. Shake fist at Blizzard for ruining your game.
  1. vokey's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Mob grinding = mindless repetitive actions in order to achieve a desired goal (rep, items, xp)
    Level capped dailies = mindless repetitive actions in order to achieve a desired goal (rep, currency, items)

    At least with mob grinding you can get it all done in a few days as opposed to dailies which are gated...and required if you want to spend your valor points. >.<

    Terrible terrible game design, I'm tired of reading posts from people trying to defend it. It's just god awful.
    You get it all done in a few days and then what? Then you probably won't have anything to do. That was the problem before and in my opinion a much bigger problem because if you wanted to have something to do that was actually important you'd have to slow down the progression of your character.

    This time the problem is different, you have plenty to do but it's not as fun as it should be, at least not in my opinion. I don't have a problem with the dailies/lfr/hcs way to gear up your character but I can't deny that it should be a lot more entertaining which is why my character has far worse gear than it should. They have been trying to make dailies more fun and they are more fun than they used to be but the thing that's missing is a proper feeling of progress while doing dailies and stuff like that. Think about the fact that quests are much more bearable when you're leveling up and try to implement a proper "format" , if you will, that makes the daily/lfr/hc grind pull you in rather than shove you away. When you reach a certain point in ilvl, the legendary questline and a slightly better item in one slot isn't enough to keep you going.

    I actually though WoW was at less subs than 9.6 so I'm not that bothered. In my opinion MoP is tons of fun and those people that won't pick up the game because of pandas are missing out a lot, the game is miles ahead of Cata and I prefer it to Wrath considering the fact that I'm a tad more seasoned than I was back then and playing without my old mates. Hopefully Blizz deliver in 5.2 since the current tier could be more entertaining.


    Also, question; Is the sub count a 100% accurate way to count how many players are playing the game? Aren't subscribers just the people that blizz will automatically bill at the end of their current game time for a game time extension? When I use a credit card to pay for the game I always unsub instantly so that Blizz won't bill me when my game time ends and I'll rather just either go to the store and buy a game card or buy another 3 months and unsub.
  1. Chry's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Methias View Post
    The people complaining about rep grinding would have loved Vanilla... AD rep grind for nothing other than cheaper Nax entry = win...
    Personally, I don't have issues with rep grinds themselves, I understand they are part of the game and have always been part of the game... I do, however, have an issue with how they were dealt with in this expansion. Shoving copious amounts of dailies down the players' throats was a god-awful, lazy, non-innovative, and overall bad decision made by Blizzard as a whole, which is shown by the massive loss in subscription numbers.

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