MMO-Champion - Council of Elders Preview, PTR Class Balance, Weekend LFR Testing, Blue Posts
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Patch 5.2 - Council of Elders Preview
Today we will take a look at another one of the Throne of Thunder bosses, the Council of Elders.





PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Meta-gems and Trinkets

Do the spirits from the DK 2-piece DPS set "snapshot" your stats like the Ghoul do upon summoning?
Neither the 2T15 Zandalari or your Ghoul “shapshot” stats (and hasn’t since 5.0).

GC, when dealing with the Rune [of Re-Origination] trinkets, will the only difference be between the three trinkets be the agility on the three or will there be a further adjustment of stat allocation.
The proc frequency changes based on the ilvl of the trinket:

541 ilevel = 112.88% proc multiplier
535 ilevel = 106.74% proc multiplier
528 ilevel = 100.00% proc multiplier
522 ilevel = 94.56% proc multiplier
502 ilevel = 78.49% proc multiplier
463 ilevel = 54.57% proc multiplier

This counts for both Unerring Vision and Rune of Re-Origination.

Are there any plans in 5.2 for changing or removing the ability to build up Tigereye Brew stacks before a pull and use them as a pre-pot? I grow tired of casting Spinning Fire Blossom.
Yes. The charges and buff are cleared upon beginning raid boss combat. Ultimately we'd like to remove the burden from players for any behavior like this, such as using Holy Shock to stack up 5 Holy Power prepull. We just have to be clever about it to distinguish between this annoying use and a legit use, such as pulling a boss quickly after trash, the way you might in Challenge Modes.

DPS Tuning
  • We overshot the mark on DKs and hunters a little, and we think warriors need that Execute nerf after all. All of this may change tomorrow as we look at different situations, so don't overly freak out about anything.

Druid (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

Hunter (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • Dismiss Pet now has a 3 sec cast time (up from 2 sec). This is to discourage swapping pets in the middle of PvP to get a different form of CC.
  • Powershot now cancels Camo when the cast begins rather than the shot landing. Powershot is much more effective in 5.2 since it is so reliable now.
  • Chimera Shot damage +25% (was +50%).
  • Black Arrow and Explosive Shot damage +10% (was +15%).

Mage (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • Incanter's Ward can now be dispelled. We agree with the concerns that the 30% damage buff is a significant contributor to mage PvP burst and often one not recognized by the recipient of said burst.

Monk (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

Death Knight (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

Warrior (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

Weekend LFR Testing
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
The first LFR wing (Last Stand of the Zandalari) is open for testing all weekend long. When sharing any feedback, please make sure to note how many stacks of Determination your group had when defeating a given boss. Thanks for testing!

Oondasta Feedback
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
So, anyone actually ventured out to the Isle of Giants with an organized raid group and taken a crack at him?

The ample feedback about the conceptual design is noted. As some posters noted, one of the major flaws with Galleon (the "rare" boss) was that he was far too easy, such that the main challenge with him is being there when he spawns and getting the initial tap on him. Oondasta is challenging, and he's pretty far out of the way (as opposed to Galleon, who is mere seconds away from Halfhill), so we think he'll be active for longer periods of time before a group takes him down. And we'll be keeping a close eye on how things like faction tapping, potential griefing, and related issues play out, and making adjustments as are warranted.

But I'd love to hear some discussion about the actual boss fight from people who have done it. You can even be immortalized in Blue-trackers everywhere if you manage to kill him.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Difficult Solo Content
However, it's a different story at max level. I would enjoy the occasional, challenging, max-level, multi-zone, elongated, epic lore, single-player quest.
I should point out that we agree that they're worthwhile occasionally, particularly when they're hooked up to a grandiose purpose. The upcoming Warlock quest for fel-green fire should present a significant challenge. The 5.2 leg of the legendary quest line should also present some nice challenges.

As for bringing loners together? I have a feeling that the Isle of Giants will prompt at least some erstwhile soloers to seek out groups for a bit of the 'ol ultra dino slaying. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

PvP Catch Up
How is this any different for PvE players who have to complete raids each week in order to remain competitive and at the top of the raiding scene?

You are far from forced to compete in PvP each week, however if you want to be at the very top of the competitive PvP scene, then it's definitely recommended. The same goes for PvE players, in order to obtain optimal gear for their raid members and as such remain competitive with other top guilds, they need to do their raids each week.

We are addressing the difficulties that players have with entering PvP mid-season in patch 5.3. When patch 5.3 is released the catch-up system will be implemented, which is designed to help out if you were not able to cap your arena points on a regular basis. The system for gearing is also being changed in patch 5.2 to try and assist with the issue of gear disparity in PvP. If you want to find out more about these changes, check out the following blogs:


Actually it is quite different. A lot of top-end raiding guilds raid a TON the first few weeks, then go on farm a little bit later, and then they might start doing alt-runs of boost-runs in the end but at that point there is no expectations that you show up if you don't want to.
In order for every player in a 25 player raid group to get their BiS gear, in an ideal situation where a each of the 6 items dropped by a boss were a BiS upgrade someone needed, PvE players need to kill 63 bosses in a 25 man raid. This is under ideal circumstances too, where everyone only needs one weapon and not a main-hand and off-hand as well as as well as the previously mentioned BiS drops situation, quite regularly drops will appear that have no use to anyone or go to an off-spec.

So all in all, if there are 13 bosses in Throne of Thunder, it will take a 25 man raid of the exact same players every week, 5 weeks of full clearing Heroic mode to gear perfectly under optimal conditions. Don't forget as well that Heroic mode is not easily accessible, or even easy to clear and as such takes some time to get on farm, so that number goes a LOT higher if you account for these reasons as well as those mentioned above. Ii is safe to assume that the time required for gearing a PvE character in BiS items would be about equal to the time needed to do the same for a PvP character.

Given all of this, to be saying that a PvE player doesn't need to clear content every week in order to remain competitive with other top players, is incorrect.

This isn't PvE vs PvP topic. I don't care if PvE players need to work more or less than I do but what I care about the insane gear imbalances atm. How fun is it to fight versus players who don't need to care about anything because they can't be killed and they kill you in matter of seconds?
I recommend that you take a look at my previous post in the thread that mentions how we are addressing gear disparity and mid-season catch-up issues players have in patch 5.2.

Besides, 5 weeks gearing in PvE against 4 months of gearing in PvP which is "minigame" in this game is a joke.
It will take you a lot longer to get fully geared in PvE than just five weeks. In PvP gear upgrades to BiS are assured simply by earning your points, whereas in PvE it is mostly about the luck of the drop, in which you can sometimes go weeks without an upgrade.

After the raid has been cleared by 1 guild in the world, what's there to compete about? Server firsts, what a joke. Most servers have 1-3 PvE guilds that "compete".
And on each server there are generally only a few teams that are competing to get rank one on the Battlegroup. There are many guilds out there that compete to simply climb in the world rankings, much like there are Arena Teams that compete every week pushing themselves to try and reach rank one.

The main difference between PvP competition and PvE competition is that PvP gearing happens at the start of the patch and the competition ends at its conclusion, for PvE players it is the competition and the race that comes first and the gearing that happens afterwards in preparation for the next tier.

With PvE, you get the kill and rewards every week. PvP doesn't have just that.
It kind of does, your cap resets each week allowing you beat more players in arena to get more Conquest points and as such, new gear.

Secondly, theoretically you can earn a reward from every boss if you are lucky enough. So gearing in raids is million times faster than for pvp where you have weekly cap.
However gearing and playing in a raid is not just about the individual. Sure, it's possible for one player to get fully geared out in a couple of runs, but what about everyone else? Their performance will be under par. Gearing an individual from a raid in PvE might be reasonably quick, but gearing an entire raid so they perform at an adequate level, isn't.

I am getting tired of people waving PvP problems away with the fallacy but in PvE you...
I am not dismissing it, I am simply stating that it's not required or forced upon you to participate in PvP every week. However if you are wanting to compete at the very top against all others in the game, no matter whether you PvE or PvP, it is definitely a bonus to participate and compete weekly in order to improve your character as much as possible. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Patch 5.2 Reputation Items
I've updated my previous posts as part of the information I posted wasn't completely accurate:

There won't be a Grand Commendation for the Shado-Pan Assault (that is the raid faction) on Patch 5.2, although there's currently one available on the PTR, which is a mistake.

Also, please note that the item level 496 rings from the Kirin Tor Offensive / Sunreavers Onslaught do cost Valor Points (only level 476 items cost gold). (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Soloing Old Raids
Then could they please "Hotfix" the whole of ICC25hc and Ulduar 25hc so it can be soloed too?
The changes the developers made were mostly on some TBC and Vanilla bosses. They didn't modify anything from Naxxramas (although you have 3 pets there). But just to make it clear, the intent they had at the time when making these changes wasn't to make all the raid content from WoW/TBC/Wrath soloable.

Just as an example, although it's TBC content, Rage Winterchill will still give you a run for your money if you are not careful avoiding Death & Decay (since it's % HP based) (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Council of Elders Preview, PTR Class Balance, Weekend LFR Testing, Weekly Roundup started by chaud View original post
Comments 38 Comments
  1. Lil's Avatar
    Eh, not too fond of the "dismiss pet is 3 sek now" change. In PvE it's already a hassle if your 10m group is lacking a buff, but also a battle rezz or hero/bloodlust.
    Especially switching pets for BRs sucks. "Dismiss pet, summon Quilen. Oh damn, this one has CD, I have to dismiss him again and use Quilen 2 or 3. Now where is our fallen hero? The BR has such a small range so that the hunt for the corpse may take a while. Finally, I've sucessfully rezzed him. Now dismiss the Quilen and pull out the buff pet again."
  1. Kingoomieiii's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by tusker View Post
    So basically, for example, if blizzard buffed an ability by 500% and then scaled that back to 495%, some people would freak out that its a "nerf".

    Lol.
    The problem with the hunter "nerfs" here is, after the buffs in the previous build, MM and Surv were 15 DPS apart with BM 300 points ahead.

    And somehow they decided to take the lower two specs and un-buff them. Why, I have absolutely no idea.
  1. NetherVortex's Avatar
    Warrior (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
    Execute damage -25%.
    Mother of god with the 10% nerf to BloodTHirst Colosus and raging blows.
  1. Adalace's Avatar
    That "curse weekly roundup" image is enough to make me stop reading halfway down so I don't have to see it. I truly dislike that show primarily because of the dude-bro frat-boy attitudes of everyone on it.
  1. shoded's Avatar
    Incanter's Ward can now be dispelled. We agree with the concerns that the 30% damage buff is a significant contributor to mage PvP burst and often one not recognized by the recipient of said burst.

    so what you want not for mages is to do no burst/be at 0% the whole time / stand still the whole fight, mid arena?
  1. Ettan's Avatar
    Dismiss Pet now has a 3 sec cast time (up from 2 sec). This is to discourage swapping pets in the middle of PvP to get a different form of CC.

    .....................
  1. Skidd's Avatar
    Next up, Ring of Power can be removed by players just by clicking on it and the invocation buff can be dispelled as well.
  1. illibladesedge's Avatar
    scourge strike nerf? really didnt it need a buff to scale better with weapons since unholy doesnt as much as frost
  1. Bahska's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by NetherVortex View Post
    Mother of god with the 10% nerf to BloodTHirst Colosus and raging blows.
    There plan is to revert those nerfs and take the damage out of execute instead (Not sure if they reverted the other 3 nerfs yet)
  1. theWocky's Avatar
    The cursed weekly round up

    Only reason they got over 1000 views is because they're on mmo-champ.

    I stopped at 0.45 as I wanted to poke my eyes and ears out. These guys belittle their audience. It's pathetic. Yeah, I don't usually mind, but WTF is with the idiotic voices and bad act at some 80's nerd?

    Do they think their audience are all kids? Hell, even kids would be offended by this failed attempt. You want to attract geeks? Bring back an attractive, sexy woman who can speak and act like the "girl next door".

    Way to go... I un-subbed from curse... seriously... where the f--k did they find these guys?
  1. Malfecto's Avatar
    There is something to be said for trying to capture the spirit of the old MMO Report and some of Casey's jaded, sardonic take on gaming, but to be honest these guys don't have it. Find your own voice ffs.
  1. theCOLORtwelve's Avatar
    Dem DK nerfs.
  1. kos1085's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by illibladesedge View Post
    scourge strike nerf? really didnt it need a buff to scale better with weapons since unholy doesnt as much as frost
    Last I checked, +3.8 is a buff from live. Where are you getting nerf from?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 03:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by theCOLORtwelve View Post
    Dem DK nerfs.
    Some people don't understand what + means. It's just less of a buff than in the last build.
  1. stgeorge78's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Adalace View Post
    That "curse weekly roundup" image is enough to make me stop reading halfway down so I don't have to see it. I truly dislike that show primarily because of the dude-bro frat-boy attitudes of everyone on it.
    What happened to that hot girl who knew nothing about gaming that used to be on it? Did she find a real modelling gig or something?
  1. Magic Sausage's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    and dk's get nerfed cos blizz listen to the whiners, how about actually buffing our survivability instead of nerfing us, GC fails again
    Yeah no....these changes still result in a net gain for DK's compared to live.
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kos1085 View Post
    Some people don't understand what + means. It's just less of a buff than in the last build.
    Am I silly for suddenly having the congressional budget going through my mind?
  1. Keklemor's Avatar
    Warrior (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
    Execute damage -25%.
    Seriously? This is a bit much considering everything else...
  1. Trinora's Avatar
    "How fun is it to fight versus players who don't need to care about anything because they can't be killed and they kill you in matter of seconds? "

    I totally agree with this guy. PvP should be about skill, not gear. Personally i think they should just normalize all gear in battlegrounds & arena's. Lets see who is the best player instead of who farmed the most gear.

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