MMO-Champion - Patch 5.4 - Flexible Raid Preview
Patch 5.4 - Flexible Raid Preview
Patch 5.4 will add a a new raid difficulty:

  • Bring anywhere from 10 to 25 people to your raid and the difficulty will automatically scale.
  • Works with battletags, so you can bring friends from other realms.
  • Item level of loot is between Raid Finder and Normal and loot is awarded with the Raid Finder style loot system.
  • Separate lockout from Raid Finder and Normal, allowing you to do all three difficulties.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Raids in World of Warcraft have a long history of not just challenging players, but changing and evolving as the years and expansions go by. As with everything in the game, we’re always thinking about what more we can bring to raiding to improve the experience for an even wider range of players. While Normal and Heroic Raids are a great fit for many, we feel there’s another gap worth filling—and to that end, we’re currently working on the development of a new type of Raid for the next major content update: Flexible Raiding.

One Size Does Not Fit All
While it’s impossible to fit every player into a neat, tidy archetype, we recognize that we could be providing a better experience to one broad category of raider: social groups comprised predominantly of friends and family, and smaller guilds that do their best to include as many members in their Raid outings possible.

During the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, the 10-player Normal difficulty served these groups of players pretty well, but the unification of 10-player and 25-player into a single difficulty effectively eliminated that niche. While Raid Finder mode is extremely accessible, it doesn’t provide smaller groups with a tight-knit social experience while progressing through the content. In Patch 5.4, we’re planning to introduce a new mode of raiding that allows us to deliver the sort of experience that we think these players are looking for.

/Flex
To fill this void, we’re in the process of developing a new Flexible Raid system, which includes a new difficulty that sits between Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, while still allowing friends, family, or pick-up groups to play together. This difficulty will be available for premade groups of 10–25 players, including any number in between. That means whether you have 11, 14, or 23 friends available for a Raid, they’ll all be able to participate.

The Flexible Raid system is designed so that the challenge level will scale depending on how many players you have in the Raid. So if you switch between 14 players one week and 22 the next, the difficulty will adjust automatically. Keep in mind that unlike Raid Finder, no matchmaking is available, so you’ll need to make sure you invite people to attend—but if some can’t make it, it’s not the end of the world (or the Raid). You’ll also still be able to invite Real ID or Battle.net friends cross-realm. Who you choose to bring and what Item Level gear they’ll need to join your merry band is up to you, too—there’s no Item Level requirement for this Raid difficulty.

Dressed to Kill
A new Raid difficulty also means a new Item Level. Flexible mode will award loot with an Item Level that falls between Raid Finder and Normal quality, and will use the Raid Finder’s “per person” loot system, specialization choices, and bonus rolls, so you won’t need to worry about bringing the “wrong” person and having them win that piece of gear you’ve long been waiting for.

You Have the Keys
We plan to unlock the Flexible Raid difficulty in wings, similar to Raid Finder, but on an accelerated timetable. This new difficulty also has a separate Raid lockout from Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, allowing you to take part in all three if you so desire. You’ll also be able to complete portions of your “Glory of the Orgrimmar Raider” raid meta- achievement in Flexible mode as well as in Normal or Heroic to earn cosmetic rewards such as an epic mount. This will allow Raid groups the opportunity to switch off nights between raids to complete achievements. Finally, taking part in Flexible, Normal, or Heroic difficulty will provide access to additional rewards that won’t be available in Raid Finder.

Getting Down to Brass Tacks
As with any in-development feature, we’re continuing to refine how the Flexible Raid system will work, and we look forward to hearing your constructive feedback from your experiences on the Public Test Realm when the new system goes live.
This article was originally published in forum thread: A Raid for All Seasons: Flexible Raid Preview started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 817 Comments
  1. Hircine's Avatar
    Now this is what I was waiting for, it looks like I'll finally be able to raid again. Now, is this the feature everyone has been talking about? Maybe, but I am happy, so couldn't care less.
  1. Stinalicious's Avatar
    And what about if you can't bring 10 ppl? what if you can only bring 7,8 or 9?
    thats why casual guilds should FROM now on be 25 man rather than 10 man sir
  1. VanishO2's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    I'm just saying it's your choice to do LFR. You don't have to. Blizzard doesn't required you too. LFR isn't part of the "progression".

    You choose to do LFR, choose to cheese the fights. That's your choice to "cheat". This is fact.

    PS: Gear gap between normal and LFR ... won't be surprise they increased it because Flex was already in the pipeline when they start itemising ToT.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 02:18 AM ----------



    http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/simple-ilevel
    Unfortunatelly it's not your choice when you're playing with others. That's a old lesson alread learned by so many years of MMOs out there.

    Remember. You farm all possible gear from 5man heroics to start raiding. You don't grab your quest gear and jump to raid. Even LFR ilvl requirement shows that. You need to grab anything you can to reach that ilvl to queue.

    And yes, LFR is part of the gear progression, Blizzard alread stated that anytime you need to fill a slot of gear that you could never get from normal mode or even heroic 5man (or previous raid tier since now we don't have new 5man heroics), you should try it from LFR. You're not cheating for using anything equal or lower than the normal mode ilvl. You would be "cheating" for using heroic gear in that.

    And that brought all this problem right back to them.

    Don't dream that they increased the gap because of a future flex mode. Ppl alread asked why and they alread answered that it was an atempt to make LFR gear less atractive to normal raiders. There will always be a OP tier bonus, OP trinket effect, etc.

    Just check the gear lists from class/specs, you will find LFR trinkets ranking higher than a lot of "this should be next in the rank" trinkets. Because it doesn't matter the ilvl, the effect is insane anyways.

    Even weapons (and you can't deny that for some classes, weapon is everything). So why you're wasting your time and your raid team member's time using that 463/450 weapon when you could farm one from LFR instead of waiting forever for one to drop in normal (not to mention that weapon could go for another player with the same bad luck since you could grab one just a little bit lower from LFR)?
  1. adrii021's Avatar
    People need to stop bitching, clearly this isnt set in stone regarding the terms. This is just the start of a new thing added to raiding. Meaning this will evolve to even better things.

    Maybe their goal is to get a Flexible normal and heroic raiding envoirment. You guys dont work at blizzard so you dont know this.
    Stop bitching and give blizzard at least a couple of months before you yell THIS SUCKED.

    Let them put this into the game the way they need to and eventually they will do alot of good with it.

    Internet nowdays is all about bitching and moaning without even TRYING it.
  1. Gurushockin's Avatar
    Well. I can't wait to see how this goes. I'm willing to bet people will be QQing about it just like they did with lfr.

    But I am happy they are still trying to come up with a way to make everyone happy. Very cool.
  1. VanishO2's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by adrii021 View Post
    People need to stop bitching, clearly this isnt set in stone regarding the terms. This is just the start of a new thing added to raiding. Meaning this will evolve to even better things.

    Maybe their goal is to get a Flexible normal and heroic raiding envoirment. You guys dont work at blizzard so you dont know this.
    Stop bitching and give blizzard at least a couple of months before you yell THIS SUCKED.

    Let them put this into the game the way they need to and eventually they will do alot of good with it.

    Internet nowdays is all about bitching and moaning without even TRYING it.
    Just like LFR evolved to even better... hahahaha

    Not...
  1. JamesBrown's Avatar
    They could fix LFR and let fill the purpose.
  1. Bodom's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Srg56 View Post
    I say, welcome back WotlK PuG raids! This is AMAZING! I won't bother with LFR after this, unless i need quest items.
    That was what I thought as well. Maybe we'll get WOTLK style pugs again!
  1. adrii021's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by VanishO2 View Post
    Just like LFR evolved to even better... hahahaha

    Not...
    Thats your opinion? Where id LFR fail tell me that. Yea its dumbed down, but ppl were asking for a easy way to raid and blizzard gave them just that.

    And in the end i didnt say everything added to the game is great but what i did say was at least give them time to form it to something good.

    Personally i dont see anything wrong with LFR.

    What i dont do is bitch about things like you do aka i dont mind pokemon beeing in the game, i dont care about it and you know what?
    I dont even touch that part of the game, just like pvp. Its diffirent parts of the game, some ppl love pokemon and some love pvp.

    Why do you even bitch about lfr? Arent you raiding normal or heroics? Really dont get it
  1. Bowserkills7's Avatar
    I wish they could scale it for 7-8 people. Thats about the max amount of guildies we have on at one time, hence why our raid nights died.
  1. adrii021's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bowserkills7 View Post
    I wish they could scale it for 7-8 people. Thats about the max amount of guildies we have on at one time, hence why our raid nights died.
    Try to see it in a positive way instead.

    You can find those 2-3 pugs to do the flexible mode 10 man and maybe just maybe youll find 2-3 new players to your roster. Dont have to see everything negative. There are probably ALOT of players that are stuck between lfr and normals atm. They will get a chance to rise through this system. But thats just my thought, well still have to see how it all pans out.
  1. Bahska's Avatar
    Meh im sorry it looks good at first glance but it has issues for sure and doesnt really fix the big issues. I know its not meant to fix server pop and im not saying it is but thats the main reason we cant field 10 raiders now. Not sure about 25 man but im guessing its the same in some cases. Fix servers and most of the issues with this and fielding the appropriate amount to begin with will go away besides the gearing issue which made me laugh a little.

    I know this probably fills a niche but there are bigger issues surrounding not enough players then this will fix.
  1. MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
    Intredasting. Perhaps this will stop raid groups and guilds from splitting apart.
  1. Declaron's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by xerus View Post
    Worst idea ever.

    Here's how to improve it: remove 10 man normal, remove 25man normal, add flex size normal. Done.

    Screw 4 ilvl tiers, 3 lockouts and 4 difficulties.
    Sooo a group of 14 players for example completes normal flex, then what happens when they have to do 10-25 heroic?
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    I've said it for LFR many times and I'll say it again for this: If your guild FORCES you or GUILTS you into doing LFR/Flexible Raiding, your guild is ABUSING YOU and you should find a new guild.
    Exactly, if you cleared last tier, then LFR and probably Flex will offer you no real upgrades. Any guild that forces you to spend 3 hours for the hopes that you upgrade your bracer from 496 to 502 should just fall apart anyway.

    To be honest, a guild would be much better off if they forced their members to watch videos of the rights rather than doing something they hate for 3 hours for a very minimal upgrade. And this ´real raiders will do anything possible to get better gear´ is nonsense. Unless you are going for world first, you don´t have to kill yourself
  1. Imhullu's Avatar
    Making it all seperate item levels is not the right way to do this. at all.
    Item bloat is already pretty bad, while the flexible raid system is great, making it into it's own tier is not the right thing to do with it.
    I bet that one guy who posted about them adding something like this and everyone ragging on him is having a great day after hearing this news.
  1. gorocz's Avatar
    Interesting... If your guild is raiding 10 man and is 1-2 people short, then you should be able to pull this off, unless you're missing a tank or 2 healers.. possibly someone can go offspec, while maintaining his loot role or something...
  1. Ickabob's Avatar
    Is this the big 'unannounced feature'? Not complaining, (because it is cool) just asking.
  1. Rustedsaint's Avatar
    this is a great idea if it was more then 25 ppl. Guild im in atm has 29 active raids that sub out between boss fights =p
  1. SodiumChloride's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by VanishO2 View Post
    Unfortunatelly it's not your choice when you're playing with others. That's a old lesson alread learned by so many years of MMOs out there.

    Remember. You farm all possible gear from 5man heroics to start raiding. You don't grab your quest gear and jump to raid. Even LFR ilvl requirement shows that. You need to grab anything you can to reach that ilvl to queue.

    And yes, LFR is part of the gear progression, Blizzard alread stated that anytime you need to fill a slot of gear that you could never get from normal mode or even heroic 5man (or previous raid tier since now we don't have new 5man heroics), you should try it from LFR. You're not cheating for using anything equal or lower than the normal mode ilvl. You would be "cheating" for using heroic gear in that.

    And that brought all this problem right back to them.

    Don't dream that they increased the gap because of a future flex mode. Ppl alread asked why and they alread answered that it was an atempt to make LFR gear less atractive to normal raiders. There will always be a OP tier bonus, OP trinket effect, etc.

    Just check the gear lists from class/specs, you will find LFR trinkets ranking higher than a lot of "this should be next in the rank" trinkets. Because it doesn't matter the ilvl, the effect is insane anyways.

    Even weapons (and you can't deny that for some classes, weapon is everything). So why you're wasting your time and your raid team member's time using that 463/450 weapon when you could farm one from LFR instead of waiting forever for one to drop in normal (not to mention that weapon could go for another player with the same bad luck since you could grab one just a little bit lower from LFR)?
    Maybe you should find a better guild with a less "hardcore" attitude ...

    If what you say is true, Blizzard is even trying to discourage normal mode raiders from farming LFR with the ilvl gap. LFR should be the last resort if a weapon refuses to drop - since everything else can be either bought or crafted.

    Remember, you don't need LFR gear to clear normal. I repeat, it's your (and your guild's) choice to cheese normal with LFR gear.

    PS: Sorry if I come across as a troll. I was trolling a little by playing along with self-proclaimed superiority of the typical raider that whines about LFR on these forums.

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