Patch 5.4 - Flexible Raid Preview
Patch 5.4 will add a a new raid difficulty:

  • Bring anywhere from 10 to 25 people to your raid and the difficulty will automatically scale.
  • Works with battletags, so you can bring friends from other realms.
  • Item level of loot is between Raid Finder and Normal and loot is awarded with the Raid Finder style loot system.
  • Separate lockout from Raid Finder and Normal, allowing you to do all three difficulties.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Raids in World of Warcraft have a long history of not just challenging players, but changing and evolving as the years and expansions go by. As with everything in the game, we’re always thinking about what more we can bring to raiding to improve the experience for an even wider range of players. While Normal and Heroic Raids are a great fit for many, we feel there’s another gap worth filling—and to that end, we’re currently working on the development of a new type of Raid for the next major content update: Flexible Raiding.

One Size Does Not Fit All
While it’s impossible to fit every player into a neat, tidy archetype, we recognize that we could be providing a better experience to one broad category of raider: social groups comprised predominantly of friends and family, and smaller guilds that do their best to include as many members in their Raid outings possible.

During the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, the 10-player Normal difficulty served these groups of players pretty well, but the unification of 10-player and 25-player into a single difficulty effectively eliminated that niche. While Raid Finder mode is extremely accessible, it doesn’t provide smaller groups with a tight-knit social experience while progressing through the content. In Patch 5.4, we’re planning to introduce a new mode of raiding that allows us to deliver the sort of experience that we think these players are looking for.

/Flex
To fill this void, we’re in the process of developing a new Flexible Raid system, which includes a new difficulty that sits between Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, while still allowing friends, family, or pick-up groups to play together. This difficulty will be available for premade groups of 10–25 players, including any number in between. That means whether you have 11, 14, or 23 friends available for a Raid, they’ll all be able to participate.

The Flexible Raid system is designed so that the challenge level will scale depending on how many players you have in the Raid. So if you switch between 14 players one week and 22 the next, the difficulty will adjust automatically. Keep in mind that unlike Raid Finder, no matchmaking is available, so you’ll need to make sure you invite people to attend—but if some can’t make it, it’s not the end of the world (or the Raid). You’ll also still be able to invite Real ID or Battle.net friends cross-realm. Who you choose to bring and what Item Level gear they’ll need to join your merry band is up to you, too—there’s no Item Level requirement for this Raid difficulty.

Dressed to Kill
A new Raid difficulty also means a new Item Level. Flexible mode will award loot with an Item Level that falls between Raid Finder and Normal quality, and will use the Raid Finder’s “per person” loot system, specialization choices, and bonus rolls, so you won’t need to worry about bringing the “wrong” person and having them win that piece of gear you’ve long been waiting for.

You Have the Keys
We plan to unlock the Flexible Raid difficulty in wings, similar to Raid Finder, but on an accelerated timetable. This new difficulty also has a separate Raid lockout from Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, allowing you to take part in all three if you so desire. You’ll also be able to complete portions of your “Glory of the Orgrimmar Raider” raid meta- achievement in Flexible mode as well as in Normal or Heroic to earn cosmetic rewards such as an epic mount. This will allow Raid groups the opportunity to switch off nights between raids to complete achievements. Finally, taking part in Flexible, Normal, or Heroic difficulty will provide access to additional rewards that won’t be available in Raid Finder.

Getting Down to Brass Tacks
As with any in-development feature, we’re continuing to refine how the Flexible Raid system will work, and we look forward to hearing your constructive feedback from your experiences on the Public Test Realm when the new system goes live.
This article was originally published in forum thread: A Raid for All Seasons: Flexible Raid Preview started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 807 Comments
  1. enchanted's Avatar
    if this is introduced then what exactly would be the point of LFR? this is like LFR but the 2nd version.
  1. Baracuda's Avatar
    Maybe it should scale down to 8 players?
  1. lvlark's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffy View Post
    bigging it up like they did
    Bigging it up like who did?

    Anyway, so we're back at three seperate lockouts again? Could you atleast have LFR and Flexible share loot lockouts? I'm a bit afraid I might be falling behind with my guildies otherwise cos I won't be doing all three.
  1. mber341's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jason1975 View Post
    Remember when people used to run 25m PUGs on your server in Wrath? Remember when servers had a real community other than "in my guild vs. random cross server people IDC about"?!
    I actually transferred back to a realm that used to do this all the time. I had so much fun participating in PUGs and meeting new people that weren't complete jackbutts, and being invited back to PUG the next weeks. But when I got back there, I realized mostly everyone stopped doing PUGS because others opted to use the Raid Finder instead. Sure, maybe it's just easier to solo queue up while running dailies and get grouped with 24 strangers to faceroll content, but it didn't have any of the social aspect, teamwork, and sense of accomplishment I used to get from realm PUGs. And most importantly, it didn't have the fun.

    It's easy to say "if you dont like Raid Finder, don't use it", but it has made it more difficult to build a PUG in the first place when most players choose easy over fun. In that respect, I agree with Ghostcrawler. Most players choose the most efficient route for gear even if its not the most fun.
  1. HerrDrache's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    Yeah, this sounds really cool, but I think having fewer than 10 (say, a minimum of 6 or 7?) would be a good addition to this.

    Sometimes having only 8 or 9 people to raid is the reason some raid groups fall apart.
    I think that's exactly what they address with this system. Our small guild can now pop over on openraid and ask for a tank and a DPS, for instance. And hopefully get someone patient. And if we get an additional DPS or three, we don't have to sit them out.

    I'm sorry, but in my opinion, raiding with 6 or 7, that's called challenge mode with extras.
  1. ItachiZaku's Avatar
    Hmm, not sure what to think about this. There really isn't a point to throwing in a sub-normal difficulty level, that's just idiotic. I do like the scaling between 10 and 25 though. The 10s with an an extra couple might benefit and 25s that can't quite get a full guild group doesn't have to worry about /2 pugging anymore. So, better for the guilds, much less better for the very small guilds with individuals that help other guilds. I guess in the end, whatever helps get more people involved is better, but I just wouldn't want people to feel obligated to do all difficulties.
  1. Northy's Avatar
    Snore. I'm unimpressed.
  1. Dyptheria's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by greg098 View Post
    They should remove 25 man raiding and make all raiding 10 man except for LFR.

    Normal mode should be like flex, allowing you to invite friends and scaling to how many people you have. Limit is 10 people.
    Disagree. If anything, they should remove 25-man from LFR. However with this new feature, guilds which have regular players numbering between 10 and 25 should be encouraged to raid more often. As far as the looting system is concerned there should also be a manual option, I think. It will be interesting to see the effect this will have on LFR - it may well end up killing it.
  1. Moradim's Avatar
    heres the big problem.

    you have 25 players, and do 25 man. you get 6 drops off each boss (or whatever).

    one night, you have 22 players. you can still raid, but you have to deal with LFR style loot.

    does this solve any problems? or introduce new ones?
  1. Sunnydee's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyptheria View Post
    Disagree. If anything, they should remove 25-man from LFR. However with this new feature, guilds which have regular players numbering between 10 and 25 should be encouraged to raid more often. As far as the looting system is concerned there should also be a manual option, I think. It will be interesting to see the effect this will have on LFR - it may well end up killing it.
    *If all raidmembers are in the same guild you can then set a masterlooter" ?? or i dno
  1. Driahtvacahtve's Avatar
    Wow this blew me away completely, I would never have expected something like this.
    It sounds absolutely awesome!
    Something like this would probably get my gf and various other family members to play again, and I would finally again feel like doing social raiding.

    Gotta give to Blizzard, this is better than anything I could have hoped for. Big thumbs up!
  1. Erous's Avatar
    I'm on the fence about this. I think it's great for groups who have someone that's out and they don't have any backups. What I'm a little sad to see is the approach they're taking. I'm still under the impression that what made WoW great was the ability to turn casual, never before seen gamers, into hardcore dungeon dwellers. I mean, that's what got me addicted. I was always a gamer but Blizzard had a way with making you yearn to see the content eventhough you weren't a hardcore gamer.

    I think they need to stop playing the casual game by making more content accessible and rather go back to when content was difficult that made you try harder. This, in my opinion, is what upped WoW subscriptions into the tens of millions.
  1. xindykawai's Avatar
    i love the way it will be separated from lockout !!!
  1. Ethas's Avatar
    Now this is just stupid...
  1. Nelvardik's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Bravo Blizzard, this is just a fantastic solution for people that want more than LFR but can't commit enough for Normal. I hope it doesn't become too big of a deal for normal/heroic raiders to do each week though.

    I really like that you can in as a group of 15 or 20 now and still have a good time.
    This might very well be enough of a solution to bring me back to WoW. My schedule simply does not allow me to commit to a raiding guild but Raid Finder is, frankly put, not raiding. This might be a solution that feels like raiding but is open to anyone to do at their own pace and availability.
  1. mmocf06effc4be's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Erous View Post
    I'm on the fence about this. I think it's great for groups who have someone that's out and they don't have any backups. What I'm a little sad to see is the approach they're taking. I'm still under the impression that what made WoW great was the ability to turn casual, never before seen gamers, into hardcore dungeon dwellers. I mean, that's what got me addicted. I was always a gamer but Blizzard had a way with making you yearn to see the content eventhough you weren't a hardcore gamer.

    I think they need to stop playing the casual game by making more content accessible and rather go back to when content was difficult that made you try harder. This, in my opinion, is what upped WoW subscriptions into the tens of millions.
    Ding ding ding, you won.
    This is exactly the problem atm. And being as desperate as they are, they are completely moving in the wrong direction with this game just to save those dropping subs.
  1. Wamogri's Avatar
    I like the idea of it, just needs a few tune ups. Remove the ability to get meta achievements and make it share a lockout (lootwise) with LFR and I'll be happy.
  1. isuridedes's Avatar
    Here's what my first thought was when I read "Flex Raid"

    "Oh great! They've finally realized that having a 10-man comp and a 25-man comp is ridiculous. We're finally going to have the option to invite any number of raiders between 10 and 25 and the damage/health pools and mechanics will scale with the number of players! FINALLY! This makes perfect sense."
    What I got instead...

    "Oh... so.... they are adding in a 3rd type of raid. So... 10-man raiding and 25-man raiding potentially lose players to pull from, because they'd rather do the marginally easier raid instead. Uhm. Yay? Didn't we just go through this once with LFR?"
  1. mmocf06effc4be's Avatar
    I dont see the benefit of this feature anyway. Whats the point? Its basically Raid Finder 2.0, with slightly better gear but still crappier then normal, and slightly less easier. Whats next? A new difficulty between normal and heroic?
  1. quras's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Erous View Post
    I'm on the fence about this. I think it's great for groups who have someone that's out and they don't have any backups. What I'm a little sad to see is the approach they're taking. I'm still under the impression that what made WoW great was the ability to turn casual, never before seen gamers, into hardcore dungeon dwellers. I mean, that's what got me addicted. I was always a gamer but Blizzard had a way with making you yearn to see the content eventhough you weren't a hardcore gamer.

    I think they need to stop playing the casual game by making more content accessible and rather go back to when content was difficult that made you try harder. This, in my opinion, is what upped WoW subscriptions into the tens of millions.
    While I do agree with you;


    this is the first thing since WoTLK that has any real thinking behind it. So many things WOW does craptastically but I don't think this is one of them.

    Got 10 in a guild raiding group but have to rotate out people every week cause you can't make 25. This is great.

    However, I think it's downfall is just as you say.

Site Navigation