MMO-Champion - Heroic Garrosh Defeated, SoO Heroic Progression, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month
AH Update, Blizzard Working on Cinematic Auto-Skipping, Book of Tyrael at NY Comic Con, Curse Weekly Roundup

Heroic Garrosh Defeated
The 10 player Heroic Garrosh encounter has been defeated in Asia by 天 啟. The group had a 573+ item level, compared to the top US and EU guilds that currently have a 565 item level.



Siege of Orgrimmar Heroic Progression
Method, Blood Legion, and Exorsus are leading progress with 13/14 bosses down now, followed by five other guilds at 12/14. Over in the 10 player column, Paragon and Depraved are leading with 13/14 bosses down.



Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Class Balance Discussion
For discussion: How to solve the problem that most class discussions happen in sequestered class forums, which tend to have an echo chamber? (Source)
must ask whats good bout discussion? Just lots of opinons?maybe in game sticky so anyone can say what they likehate bout class
Discussions tend to dismantle weak arguments and let stronger ones rise to the top. Discussions are like lists + evolution. (Source)
Doesn't stop many common opinions in the community that have been dismantled time and time again.
I agree with that, though I think that's a function of online discussion forums typically having rapid turnover. (Source)

change the format. and both use formats which generate a lot of traction. Forums are becoming antiquated.
Videos take too long to watch (esp with ads). I don't get the appeal. I like Reddit though. (Source)

..and that brings it back to my initial problem. The echo chamber argument is pretty weak....
I agree with Lhivera. The echo chamber effect resists debates and encourages brofisting. (Source)
Sounds harsh and elitist, but their progress and experience tells the same story 95% of the time.
But aren't you essentially arguing that the players are usually right? That is by far not the case. They are right... sometimes. (Source)

Arguments for a real problem and for a bogus problem will look very similar in a brofisting context.
Think of it from our POV, where there are always far more demands from players than the game really needs. (Source)
Separating good arguments from bad is non-trivial, so seeing a healthy debate w/ many POVs can help us make that distinction. (Source)

also enforces groupthink around "my class sucks".
And anyone who intrudes to disagree either "doesn't understand our issues" or is accused of trolling. (Source)
I'll say it again: You will never get as good feedback as you will get from the class specific forums. Ever.
Not from where I sit. Now it's possible to have healthy debate in class forums, but I rarely see it, and I read a lot of forums. (Source)

I think that would just move the echo chamber somewhere else. Vidcast discussion panels with top players/TCs.
It's interesting that panels and podcasts tend to invite dissenting opinions (w/in reason). (Source)
I think they understand that (softly) competitive structure yields more interesting & informed discussions. (Source)
I disagree that it's the format - more the interaction. If there's more from blues I believe you'd see more healthy discussion
The problem is the developers themselves are very busy and can't afford to spend hours per day in forums. (Twitter is fast.) (Source)

Why is the echo chamber a problem? Not trying to be sarcastic; trying to understand what alternate state is desired.
We're not saying there aren't class problems, but when everything is portrayed as a crisis, it's hard to know really needs fixing. (Source)
The echo chamber effect can also cause thought leaders or eloquent posters to create mountains out of molehills. (Source)
It's nice to get a "um your DPS is fine" dissenting opinion, but those "trolls" get chased out of class-specific threads. (Source)
you're guilty of this sort over tweets. 'We like where xx is at'. Some weeks later hotfix or minor patch and buffs appear
That is ultimately the system working though. Sometimes players convince us a change is necessary. Other times data prove us wrong. (Source)

Legitimate contributors are discouraged from posting because of toxic abusive posters. Remove problems, contributors return?
I used to subscribe to that more, but over moderation can also create fear and resentment. (Source)
It's also something we can't enforce on websites other than our own, but conversations certainly take place there. (Source)

Bold idea: remove class forums. No echo. "Answers/Advice For New Players" can be its own forum instead.
It's not strictly a "class subforum" problem. Even general forums spawn class-specific threads. (Source)

And to be clear, I do think that blues should always be very careful when they decide to post in a class forum.
I don't personally post in class forums anymore (or rarely anywhere). It caused more QQ than it solved IMO. (Source)
Even today you see Why didn't we get posts / as many posts / as many substantial posts / more posts b/c our issues are worse? (Source)

Reputation / Questing
I should clarify... levelling ONE char was fun. Levelling more in MoP was not.
That's fair criticism. We hoped that choices like Four Winds vs. Krasarang would help the second time around. (Source)

I'm wondering, how do you guys consider MOP levelling? A success, failure / could be better? I find it rather boring.
We think it was probably a little slow overall. At launch, you did a bunch of quests and saw the XP bar grow only a little. (Source)
We buffed the leveling speed a patch or two ago. It feels better now IMO. (Source)

can we get option to show rep gain in quest dialog?
We explored this, but many quests offer rep for multiple factions (like e.g. all Alliance cities) and it was really spammy. (Source)

So you'd rather people get burnt out on gearing, than actually participate because it's fun?
We find most players won't participate in any activity without motivation from rewards that improve power. (Source)
In fact the opposite can also be true: if we're not careful, players will engage in unfun things just for the power rewards. (Source)
You mean daily quests?
Or chain running Mechanar. Or farming Sunwell trash. The list goes on. (Source)

I hate to sound like an echo chamber, but dailies feeling required are why I'm not playing Mists.
I think your information might be fairly old. The new patch has virtually no dailies. It still has a lot to do. (Source)

Computers - Setup of the Month (by chaud)
Each month or every 2 months, depending on the hardware evolutions, the lovely chaud will work on a couple of hardware setups for those of you who are thinking of upgrading their computer!

This month
New GPUs from AMD are on the way, so if you are only upgrading your GPU it might be worth it to wait a month or two.

The current SSD prices are stable, with most SSDs under $1 per gigabyte when on sale. RAM prices are continuing to climb.

The Haswell CPUs from Intel are here and they run a little bit on the warmer side. Depending on how much you want to overclock, you may need to spend a bit more for a better CPU cooler like the NH-D14 or H90.

Unless you are doing a lot of video rendering or something that is similarly multithreaded, you do not need the 4770K and should spend that money elsewhere.

Make sure to keep your AMD and Nvidia drivers up to date.

Don't hesitate to post any feedback in the comments of that news post, and don't forget to visit the Computer Forum for any extra questions! If you are interested in Folding@home, take a look in our team's thread.


Peripherals/Monitors
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
MonitorAsus VE228H 21.5-Inch Monitor - $127ASUS VS248H-P 24-Inch Monitor - $160
KeyboardKensington Pro Fit Media Keyboard - $18Cyborg V.5 - $48
MouseLogitech G400s - $44Razer Deathadder - $48
SpeakersCreative A220 2.1 Speaker System - $26Logitech Z313 Speaker System - $35
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
MonitorAsus VE258Q 25-Inch Monitor - $216HP ZR2440W 24-inch - $367
KeyboardLogitech G510 - $79Razer BlackWidow (Backlit)- $70 ($120)
MouseLogitech G500 - $52Razer Naga (Buttons on the Side) - $70
SpeakersLogitech Z323 2.1 Speaker System - $55Logitech Speaker System Z523 - $66


Puppy and Dolphin
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Puppy and Dolphin.
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
CaseNZXT Source 210 - $36NZXT Source 210 - $36
Power SupplyCorsair CX500 - $45XFX Core Edition PRO 550W - $61
CPUAMD FX-6300 - $120AMD FX-8320 - $154
HeatsinkCooler Master Hyper 212 Plus - $18Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $33
MotherboardASUS M5A97 R2.0 - $103ASUS M5A99FX PRO - $115
MemoryKingston HyperX Blu 4GB 1333 - $418GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $79
Graphics CardXFX 7770 - $95Gigabyte 7870 2 GB or Gigabyte GTX 660 OC - $190 / $180
Hard DriveWestern Digital Caviar Blue 500GB - $56Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB - $85
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$536$765 - $775


Narwhal and Unicorn
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Narwhal and Unicorn.
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
CaseCooler Master HAF 912 - $60Corsair Air 540 (Special Layout) - $140
Power SupplyCorsair 650TX V2 - $87Corsair 750HX - $110
CPUIntel i5-4670K - $241Intel i7-4770K - $340
HeatsinkThermaltake Frio - $56Noctua 6 NH-D14 - $77
MotherboardASUS Z87-A - $140ASUS Z87-PLUS - $155
Memory8GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $7916GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $153
Graphics CardMSI 7950 OR MSI N760 TF - $265 / $260Gigabyte 7970 - $280
Hard DriveWestern Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85
SSDSAMSUNG 840 128GB (Review) - $95
OR
Plextor 128 GB M5 Pro (Review) - $116
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB (Review) - $125
OR
SAMSUNG 840 Pro 128GB (Review) - $133
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$1125 - $1151$1457 - $1495


Heroes of the Storm Trademark
The Heroes of the Storm trademark from last week appears to have been applied for in the US database now as well. Keep in mind that nothing is confirmed until trademarks are granted.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Heroic Garrosh Defeated, SoO Heroic Progression, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month started by chaud View original post
Comments 246 Comments
  1. Xjev's Avatar
    Are there 100+ guilds in Asia already downed Garrosh 10H using their OP 25 man gear? is there a list of their armories anywhere? Want to check heroic heirloom weapon drop rate.
  1. Zarog's Avatar
    I saw this image before. I'm pretty sure it's fake though. First of all, isn't that SW harbor? And even worse, what is the NE and Panda leaders doing impaled on those spikes behind them?
  1. UnifiedDivide's Avatar
    I always enjoy seeing people trying to argue that certain kills don't count because it's either on 10man, played differently to what they are used to or just isn't their fave guild...

    Gz to them on their World First though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarog View Post
    I saw this image before. I'm pretty sure it's fake though. First of all, isn't that SW harbor? And even worse, what is the NE and Panda leaders doing impaled on those spikes behind them?
    It's basically an alternate reality that you get sent to while fighting Garrosh. It's like a vision of what could happen if Garrosh wins.
  1. Hugh Wattmate's Avatar
    You could go all out with:
    World First Asian 10
    World First Asian 25
    World First Western 10
    World First western 25

    Unless you are willing to take this as the "WORLD FIRST" Regardless of gear advantage and raid size you have no choice but to separate the kill's into individual world firsts. You cannot say for 100% if 10 is harder than 25 or if they have it more hard or easy than EU/US, Because of this you must see it as a legit World first or separate all World kills like above.
  1. Therec's Avatar
    They killed the boss first.

    However as far as the world first race goes they will never be given the respect or acknowledgement of skill that comes along with a "world first" end boss kill, due to the tactics used to get the kill. They dont like it, take it up with Blizzard.

    If Blizzard doesnt revert any changes, the top EU/US guilds will respect the asian guilds' boss kills as much as the 25H ICC guilds who switched the Lich King over to 10 man were respected when they got their heroic kill.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
    If I was a US/EU raider and had people giving Asia the "World First" title even though they have an unfair advantage I would just say "fuck it". Why bother competing when another region has an unfair advantage? It's not much of a competition if everyone isn't on equal footing.
    So method and all the other EU guilds should just not bother since US guilds get an extra day advantage. Also all the Australian guilds shouldn't bother since they don't get the advantage of nice pings. The world first race is over. If Method and Blood Legion want every advantage possible it's their choice to move to asia if they want to. We're now waiting to see who wins the west first race, which would be world second unless another asian guild downs him.
  1. Miuku's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I always enjoy seeing people trying to argue that certain kills don't count because it's either on 10man, played differently to what they are used to or just isn't their fave guild...
    Of course the kill counts. The point here is that it's not comparable to what others are doing.

    It's like going to a marathon and noticing that some of the competitors are using bicycles yet the results don't take that into account.
  1. Thanatoss's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    Clearly stars is best since they killed him first. Oh wait....

    Cheated how exactly? They are playing the game blizzard gave them. They didn't cheese it by using bombs or 15 druids etc.


    By definition, this is a world first kill. No matter how much haters try to deny it. It was the first time in the world he was killed in heroic. Period.

    Grats to them
    They farmed 25m for the higher iLvl gear they get for their region. Stacking all the gear on 10 characters they then went back and killed it on 10m. Seems pretty lame to me
  1. Therec's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatoss View Post
    They farmed 25m for the higher iLvl gear they get for their region. Stacking all the gear on 10 characters they then went back and killed it on 10m. Seems pretty lame to me
    The same thing happened in ICC. 25H guilds werent skilled enough to take down the hardest bosses, so they farmed gear and then switched it to 10-man which they now overgeared to get their final kills. I cant think of anyone who said "wow that was an impressive feat"
  1. Sensui06's Avatar
    My question is why does blizzard feel they have to give the asian servers higher item levels and more attempts? Did they cry and moan for it or what? I just dont see the logic of blizzard doing it unless they had no choice.
  1. zrankfappa's Avatar
    nothing to see here folks ... move along ...
  1. Of-the-horde's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensui06 View Post
    My question is why does blizzard feel they have to give the asian servers higher item levels and more attempts? Did they cry and moan for it or what? I just dont see the logic of blizzard doing it unless they had no choice.
    It's probably because EU/US cried that they had too many modes to run in order to compete. 10man, 25man, normal and heroic also known as ToC. While china likes that hardcore grind every week to maximise on gear.
  1. Dalanos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenX View Post
    Correction, Warlock with ilvl 588:

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=105475

    So they farmed 25 and killed him in 10m, don't know how this really counts in as the WF considering the cheesing of every logistics there is, still gratz on the kill.
    Only that particular item is 588. His total ilvl is 575
  1. Xisa's Avatar
    Guilds that farmed 25 man gear in ICC to farm 10H ICC didn't get any credit for world firsts.

    This is the exact same thing. Congratulations to them for a non-accomplishment. The real guilds are still competing.
  1. orgamason's Avatar
    This should not be counted towards world first simply because of the advantages they have over the rest.
    They have more lockouts per week, 10/25 doesn't share lockout, higher ilvl gear.

    It's like having a 100m race against Usain Bolt, you start at the same point but for every step Usain Bolt takes you can take twice as many.
  1. Ragnarohk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by taurenguard View Post
    It's probably because EU/US cried that they had too many modes to run in order to compete. 10man, 25man, normal and heroic also known as ToC. While china likes that hardcore grind every week to maximise on gear.
    No, as far as I know, the diffrence between lock-outs is because in Asia poeple pay per time played (not a monthly/quarterly/yearly) subscription. People basically just logged to raid (and only payed for that), not only did they ask for the change but it's also better for Blizzard economically since now they have to log in twice a week (10 man and 25 man) so that means double the play time (meaning double the money). I'm not sure tho, I believe I read about that somewhere. I'm not sure why they have diffrent ilvls tho.

    Also, stop complaining, world first is world first. They did have a better ilvl however fights are harder in asian raids (bosses have 10% more health and do 10% more damage) so it evens out. Also, other guilds (EU and US too) funnel gear into their mains via 25 man raids, it has happened before and it will keep happening.
  1. Thanatoss's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    Also, stop complaining, world first is world first. They did have a better ilvl however fights are harder in asian raids (bosses have 10% more health and do 10% more damage) so it evens out.
    They have higher health in 25m, this wasn't a 25m kill
  1. Zantos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mikencarly View Post
    true world first kill well done apocalypse!
    Hardly. They had a huge ilevel advantage on a boss that is at the same difficulty as the one in the west. Maybe if they weren't playing a different version where 10/25 don't share a lock out Id give it to them. But like Chaud said, they are not included in the world first because their 10man version is not buffed, therefore they killed the same boss everyone else is fighting with gear no one else can get because no one else has separate lock outs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    Clearly stars is best since they killed him first. Oh wait....

    Cheated how exactly? They are playing the game blizzard gave them. They didn't cheese it by using bombs or 15 druids etc.


    By definition, this is a world first kill. No matter how much haters try to deny it. It was the first time in the world he was killed in heroic. Period.

    Grats to them
    THey cheesed it by getting really high ilevel in 25man then going to an unbuffed 10man version to kill it.
  1. Gylina's Avatar
    I really wish i had this much time on my hands. I'd be able to raid 7 days a week too.
  1. Zantos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    So method and all the other EU guilds should just not bother since US guilds get an extra day advantage. Also all the Australian guilds shouldn't bother since they don't get the advantage of nice pings. The world first race is over. If Method and Blood Legion want every advantage possible it's their choice to move to asia if they want to. We're now waiting to see who wins the west first race, which would be world second unless another asian guild downs him.
    Its still going, sorry. We aren't talking about a 1day advantage. We are talking about a huge ilevel and gear advantage that no one else could get for the same difficulty. It's like them having several weeks of farming in before going to try to kill garrosh, if we could even reach the insane ilevels they can with their 4 upgrades and higher ilevel 25man gear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Therec View Post
    The same thing happened in ICC. 25H guilds werent skilled enough to take down the hardest bosses, so they farmed gear and then switched it to 10-man which they now overgeared to get their final kills. I cant think of anyone who said "wow that was an impressive feat"
    Back then though everyone could do that. Asia is the only one like that now.

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