MMO-Champion - Heroic Garrosh Defeated, SoO Heroic Progression, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month
AH Update, Blizzard Working on Cinematic Auto-Skipping, Book of Tyrael at NY Comic Con, Curse Weekly Roundup

Heroic Garrosh Defeated
The 10 player Heroic Garrosh encounter has been defeated in Asia by 天 啟. The group had a 573+ item level, compared to the top US and EU guilds that currently have a 565 item level.



Siege of Orgrimmar Heroic Progression
Method, Blood Legion, and Exorsus are leading progress with 13/14 bosses down now, followed by five other guilds at 12/14. Over in the 10 player column, Paragon and Depraved are leading with 13/14 bosses down.



Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Class Balance Discussion
For discussion: How to solve the problem that most class discussions happen in sequestered class forums, which tend to have an echo chamber? (Source)
must ask whats good bout discussion? Just lots of opinons?maybe in game sticky so anyone can say what they likehate bout class
Discussions tend to dismantle weak arguments and let stronger ones rise to the top. Discussions are like lists + evolution. (Source)
Doesn't stop many common opinions in the community that have been dismantled time and time again.
I agree with that, though I think that's a function of online discussion forums typically having rapid turnover. (Source)

change the format. and both use formats which generate a lot of traction. Forums are becoming antiquated.
Videos take too long to watch (esp with ads). I don't get the appeal. I like Reddit though. (Source)

..and that brings it back to my initial problem. The echo chamber argument is pretty weak....
I agree with Lhivera. The echo chamber effect resists debates and encourages brofisting. (Source)
Sounds harsh and elitist, but their progress and experience tells the same story 95% of the time.
But aren't you essentially arguing that the players are usually right? That is by far not the case. They are right... sometimes. (Source)

Arguments for a real problem and for a bogus problem will look very similar in a brofisting context.
Think of it from our POV, where there are always far more demands from players than the game really needs. (Source)
Separating good arguments from bad is non-trivial, so seeing a healthy debate w/ many POVs can help us make that distinction. (Source)

also enforces groupthink around "my class sucks".
And anyone who intrudes to disagree either "doesn't understand our issues" or is accused of trolling. (Source)
I'll say it again: You will never get as good feedback as you will get from the class specific forums. Ever.
Not from where I sit. Now it's possible to have healthy debate in class forums, but I rarely see it, and I read a lot of forums. (Source)

I think that would just move the echo chamber somewhere else. Vidcast discussion panels with top players/TCs.
It's interesting that panels and podcasts tend to invite dissenting opinions (w/in reason). (Source)
I think they understand that (softly) competitive structure yields more interesting & informed discussions. (Source)
I disagree that it's the format - more the interaction. If there's more from blues I believe you'd see more healthy discussion
The problem is the developers themselves are very busy and can't afford to spend hours per day in forums. (Twitter is fast.) (Source)

Why is the echo chamber a problem? Not trying to be sarcastic; trying to understand what alternate state is desired.
We're not saying there aren't class problems, but when everything is portrayed as a crisis, it's hard to know really needs fixing. (Source)
The echo chamber effect can also cause thought leaders or eloquent posters to create mountains out of molehills. (Source)
It's nice to get a "um your DPS is fine" dissenting opinion, but those "trolls" get chased out of class-specific threads. (Source)
you're guilty of this sort over tweets. 'We like where xx is at'. Some weeks later hotfix or minor patch and buffs appear
That is ultimately the system working though. Sometimes players convince us a change is necessary. Other times data prove us wrong. (Source)

Legitimate contributors are discouraged from posting because of toxic abusive posters. Remove problems, contributors return?
I used to subscribe to that more, but over moderation can also create fear and resentment. (Source)
It's also something we can't enforce on websites other than our own, but conversations certainly take place there. (Source)

Bold idea: remove class forums. No echo. "Answers/Advice For New Players" can be its own forum instead.
It's not strictly a "class subforum" problem. Even general forums spawn class-specific threads. (Source)

And to be clear, I do think that blues should always be very careful when they decide to post in a class forum.
I don't personally post in class forums anymore (or rarely anywhere). It caused more QQ than it solved IMO. (Source)
Even today you see Why didn't we get posts / as many posts / as many substantial posts / more posts b/c our issues are worse? (Source)

Reputation / Questing
I should clarify... levelling ONE char was fun. Levelling more in MoP was not.
That's fair criticism. We hoped that choices like Four Winds vs. Krasarang would help the second time around. (Source)

I'm wondering, how do you guys consider MOP levelling? A success, failure / could be better? I find it rather boring.
We think it was probably a little slow overall. At launch, you did a bunch of quests and saw the XP bar grow only a little. (Source)
We buffed the leveling speed a patch or two ago. It feels better now IMO. (Source)

can we get option to show rep gain in quest dialog?
We explored this, but many quests offer rep for multiple factions (like e.g. all Alliance cities) and it was really spammy. (Source)

So you'd rather people get burnt out on gearing, than actually participate because it's fun?
We find most players won't participate in any activity without motivation from rewards that improve power. (Source)
In fact the opposite can also be true: if we're not careful, players will engage in unfun things just for the power rewards. (Source)
You mean daily quests?
Or chain running Mechanar. Or farming Sunwell trash. The list goes on. (Source)

I hate to sound like an echo chamber, but dailies feeling required are why I'm not playing Mists.
I think your information might be fairly old. The new patch has virtually no dailies. It still has a lot to do. (Source)

Computers - Setup of the Month (by chaud)
Each month or every 2 months, depending on the hardware evolutions, the lovely chaud will work on a couple of hardware setups for those of you who are thinking of upgrading their computer!

This month
New GPUs from AMD are on the way, so if you are only upgrading your GPU it might be worth it to wait a month or two.

The current SSD prices are stable, with most SSDs under $1 per gigabyte when on sale. RAM prices are continuing to climb.

The Haswell CPUs from Intel are here and they run a little bit on the warmer side. Depending on how much you want to overclock, you may need to spend a bit more for a better CPU cooler like the NH-D14 or H90.

Unless you are doing a lot of video rendering or something that is similarly multithreaded, you do not need the 4770K and should spend that money elsewhere.

Make sure to keep your AMD and Nvidia drivers up to date.

Don't hesitate to post any feedback in the comments of that news post, and don't forget to visit the Computer Forum for any extra questions! If you are interested in Folding@home, take a look in our team's thread.


Peripherals/Monitors
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
MonitorAsus VE228H 21.5-Inch Monitor - $127ASUS VS248H-P 24-Inch Monitor - $160
KeyboardKensington Pro Fit Media Keyboard - $18Cyborg V.5 - $48
MouseLogitech G400s - $44Razer Deathadder - $48
SpeakersCreative A220 2.1 Speaker System - $26Logitech Z313 Speaker System - $35
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
MonitorAsus VE258Q 25-Inch Monitor - $216HP ZR2440W 24-inch - $367
KeyboardLogitech G510 - $79Razer BlackWidow (Backlit)- $70 ($120)
MouseLogitech G500 - $52Razer Naga (Buttons on the Side) - $70
SpeakersLogitech Z323 2.1 Speaker System - $55Logitech Speaker System Z523 - $66


Puppy and Dolphin
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Puppy and Dolphin.
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
CaseNZXT Source 210 - $36NZXT Source 210 - $36
Power SupplyCorsair CX500 - $45XFX Core Edition PRO 550W - $61
CPUAMD FX-6300 - $120AMD FX-8320 - $154
HeatsinkCooler Master Hyper 212 Plus - $18Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $33
MotherboardASUS M5A97 R2.0 - $103ASUS M5A99FX PRO - $115
MemoryKingston HyperX Blu 4GB 1333 - $418GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $79
Graphics CardXFX 7770 - $95Gigabyte 7870 2 GB or Gigabyte GTX 660 OC - $190 / $180
Hard DriveWestern Digital Caviar Blue 500GB - $56Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB - $85
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$536$765 - $775


Narwhal and Unicorn
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Narwhal and Unicorn.
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
CaseCooler Master HAF 912 - $60Corsair Air 540 (Special Layout) - $140
Power SupplyCorsair 650TX V2 - $87Corsair 750HX - $110
CPUIntel i5-4670K - $241Intel i7-4770K - $340
HeatsinkThermaltake Frio - $56Noctua 6 NH-D14 - $77
MotherboardASUS Z87-A - $140ASUS Z87-PLUS - $155
Memory8GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $7916GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $153
Graphics CardMSI 7950 OR MSI N760 TF - $265 / $260Gigabyte 7970 - $280
Hard DriveWestern Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85
SSDSAMSUNG 840 128GB (Review) - $95
OR
Plextor 128 GB M5 Pro (Review) - $116
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB (Review) - $125
OR
SAMSUNG 840 Pro 128GB (Review) - $133
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$1125 - $1151$1457 - $1495


Heroes of the Storm Trademark
The Heroes of the Storm trademark from last week appears to have been applied for in the US database now as well. Keep in mind that nothing is confirmed until trademarks are granted.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Heroic Garrosh Defeated, SoO Heroic Progression, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month started by chaud View original post
Comments 246 Comments
  1. UnifiedDivide's Avatar
    When it comes to EU/US guilds, every last person says that guilds will, and do, every last thing they can to get the bosses down. An Asian guild does the same, it doesn't count. Logic! >_<

    Sure, things work different in Asia to how they work in the West but you know what? They still killed the boss first.
  1. Zantos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    When it comes to EU/US guilds, every last person says that guilds will, and do, every last thing they can to get the bosses down. An Asian guild does the same, it doesn't count. Logic! >_<

    Sure, things work different in Asia to how they work in the West but you know what? They still killed the boss first.
    They do every advantage that anyone else can do. Asia is the only one able to get the advantage they had in the way they did it.
  1. Shaqur's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    When it comes to EU/US guilds, every last person says that guilds will, and do, every last thing they can to get the bosses down. An Asian guild does the same, it doesn't count. Logic! >_<

    Sure, things work different in Asia to how they work in the West but you know what? They still killed the boss first.
    Comparing regions where one region has 1 lockout per week and shared lockout with a region that has 2 lockouts per week and separate lockout seems fair? Logic.
  1. Zabyt's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    When it comes to EU/US guilds, every last person says that guilds will, and do, every last thing they can to get the bosses down. An Asian guild does the same, it doesn't count. Logic! >_<

    Sure, things work different in Asia to how they work in the West but you know what? They still killed the boss first.
    you're just incredibly ignorant tbh..

    as zantos said :

    Hardly. They had a huge ilevel advantage on a boss that is at the same difficulty as the one in the west. Maybe if they weren't playing a different version where 10/25 don't share a lock out Id give it to them. But like Chaud said, they are not included in the world first because their 10man version is not buffed, therefore they killed the same boss everyone else is fighting with gear no one else can get because no one else has separate lock outs.
    wth don't you get about this? They killed a boss that is the same as West 10m version , with much better 25m gear that they have compared to EU/US.
  1. Azgraal's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Chaos View Post
    You could go all out with:
    World First Asian 10
    World First Asian 25
    World First Western 10
    World First western 25
    Except that in the countries with the regular client, 10/25 are the same thing.
  1. UnifiedDivide's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    They do every advantage that anyone else can do. Asia is the only one able to get the advantage they had in the way they did it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqur View Post
    Comparing regions where onw region has 1 lockout per week and shared lockout with a region that has 2 lockouts per week and separate lockout seems fair? Logic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabyt View Post
    you're just incredibly ignorant tbh..
    Again, they simply used any advantage they could to defeat the boss. Show me any top guild that doesn't...

    And I already acknowledged how differently things work in different regions. They still killed the boss, did they not?

    Stop crying because of how different things are, ffs. What you guys really think is World First is only for the US/EU. Asia may as well not exist...
  1. Thanatoss's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    What you guys really think is World First is only for the US/EU. Asia may as well not exist...
    It basically is a different game for them, So "World First" doesn't really hold much merit anymore compared to region first
  1. Mayna's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Again, they simply used any advantage they could to defeat the boss. Show me any top guild that doesn't...

    And I already acknowledged how differently things work in different regions. They still killed the boss, did they not?

    Stop crying because of how different things are, ffs. What you guys really think is World First is only for the US/EU. Asia may as well not exist...
    As far as WF's go, Asia does not exist.

    If they released WoW Australia and Australians had a 4000% damage buff would you consider them for world firsts on bosses? Cannot believe there are people on this forum who would. It's a completely different race when one competitor has a huge advantage like Asia has on EU/US. No one is saying they shouldn't have used their advantage, it's just that no one cares about them killing the same boss on a different game.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Again, they simply used any advantage they could to defeat the boss. Show me any top guild that doesn't...

    And I already acknowledged how differently things work in different regions. They still killed the boss, did they not?

    Stop crying because of how different things are, ffs. What you guys really think is World First is only for the US/EU. Asia may as well not exist...
    Exactly. If it were reversed and EU/US had double lockouts and asia didn't and a EU/US guild got world first you wouldn't see these people saying, "Sorry, doesn't count, they had an advantage, we need to wait for an asian guild for it to be counted". They're just fanboys who are crying cause their "team" didn't win.
  1. Ysilla's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqur View Post
    Comparing regions where one region has 1 lockout per week and shared lockout with a region that has 2 lockouts per week and separate lockout seems fair? Logic.
    Did anyone say this was fair ?

    This wasn't a fair race no (well, tbh, there never was any "fair" race in WoW), but it was still won by 天啟. So gratz to them.
  1. Zantos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Again, they simply used any advantage they could to defeat the boss. Show me any top guild that doesn't...

    And I already acknowledged how differently things work in different regions. They still killed the boss, did they not?

    Stop crying because of how different things are, ffs. What you guys really think is World First is only for the US/EU. Asia may as well not exist...
    Ok, let me put it another way. In order for any top raider to get NEAR their ilevel 575 lock even, they would need a Full set of warforged heroic 2/2upgraded gear. Our heroic gear is 566>Hwarforged569>1/2Hwarforged 573>2/2Hwarforged575. No one can get anywhere Near that close for awhile yet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Exactly. If it were reversed and EU/US had double lockouts and asia didn't and a EU/US guild got world first you wouldn't see these people saying, "Sorry, doesn't count, they had an advantage, we need to wait for an asian guild for it to be counted". They're just fanboys who are crying cause their "team" didn't win.
    Except its not just a lock out advantage. Its a they can get Much higher ilevel then an eu/us guild as well to fight a boss that is at the same difficulty.
  1. Thanatoss's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ysilla View Post
    Did anyone say this was fair ?

    This wasn't a fair race no (well, tbh, there never was any "fair" race in WoW), but it was still won by 天啟. So gratz to them.
    World first doesn't mean shit anymore with different clients for the game in different regions. Region first is more of an accomplishment
  1. starkey's Avatar
    world 1st lol let the insanity begin, incoming shit storm.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    If we want to talk about fair. Is it fair that Australians have horrible pings? Should EU/US guilds not count cause they have an advantage over Australian guilds? I mean they're playing the game on easy mode with their awesome latency. The US gets an extra day head start every week! Is that fair? No. So where do you draw the line? Some countries have more internet coverage, which gives them a better recruitment pool. Is that fair? Life isn't fair, get over it.
  1. rsabin's Avatar
    Still waiting the true WoW world first.
    The game in Asia in not WoW, it's only a mod with cheats. Deal with that.

    Contribute constructively
  1. Last Starfighter's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Exactly. If it were reversed and EU/US had double lockouts and asia didn't and a EU/US guild got world first you wouldn't see these people saying, "Sorry, doesn't count, they had an advantage, we need to wait for an asian guild for it to be counted". They're just fanboys who are crying cause their "team" didn't win.
    And I guarantee you if it were between this asian guild, and a guild like Paragon, and Paragon had access to higher ilvl gear you would be crying. That's how things work. The typical guilds get the hate, the underdogs get the love. It has nothing at all to do with anything other than that. There is a simple thing that puts them in another race. They have access to gear that isn't available to anyone else but them. And they couldn't beat the version of the boss tuned for their gear, so they took the easy way out. That's just the facts. They needed a crutch to do it.
  1. finchna's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    They still killed the boss, did they not?
    They killed a boss with the same name, but it's not the boss on which the EU/US teams are working. They also have gear advantages.

    Had it been the same game, same boss stats, same possible gear ilvl, then yes, that would be a valid comparison.
  1. Zantos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by finchna View Post
    They killed a boss with the same name, but it's not the boss on which the EU/US teams are working. They also have gear advantages.

    Had it been the same game, same boss stats, same possible gear ilvl, then yes, that would be a valid comparison.
    ON 10m it is the same stats, just the gear they can get invalidates it.
  1. Chaoss17's Avatar
    Seriously, we shouldn't be the ones to whine since none of us probably ain't in the top guilds.
    So who cares that they're different down made by different people ?

    If it bothers top guolds then they should be the one to complain to Blizzard.
    Blizzard never made any rank in pve, PUG did.
  1. Shiftty's Avatar
    Well by definition this is a world first but for a game that Blizzard made for Asia people.
    The game that US/EU guilds play is not the same(even though it has the same name) so the world first race for it is still on!

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