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Heroic Garrosh Defeated
The 10 player Heroic Garrosh encounter has been defeated in Asia by 天 啟. The group had a 573+ item level, compared to the top US and EU guilds that currently have a 565 item level.

Siege of Orgrimmar Heroic Progression
Method, Blood Legion, and Exorsus are leading progress with 13/14 bosses down now, followed by five other guilds at 12/14. Over in the 10 player column, Paragon and Depraved are leading with 13/14 bosses down.

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Class Balance Discussion
For discussion: How to solve the problem that most class discussions happen in sequestered class forums, which tend to have an echo chamber? (Source)
must ask whats good bout discussion? Just lots of opinons?maybe in game sticky so anyone can say what they likehate bout class
Discussions tend to dismantle weak arguments and let stronger ones rise to the top. Discussions are like lists + evolution. (Source)
Doesn't stop many common opinions in the community that have been dismantled time and time again.
I agree with that, though I think that's a function of online discussion forums typically having rapid turnover. (Source)

change the format. and both use formats which generate a lot of traction. Forums are becoming antiquated.
Videos take too long to watch (esp with ads). I don't get the appeal. I like Reddit though. (Source)

..and that brings it back to my initial problem. The echo chamber argument is pretty weak....
I agree with Lhivera. The echo chamber effect resists debates and encourages brofisting. (Source)
Sounds harsh and elitist, but their progress and experience tells the same story 95% of the time.
But aren't you essentially arguing that the players are usually right? That is by far not the case. They are right... sometimes. (Source)

Arguments for a real problem and for a bogus problem will look very similar in a brofisting context.
Think of it from our POV, where there are always far more demands from players than the game really needs. (Source)
Separating good arguments from bad is non-trivial, so seeing a healthy debate w/ many POVs can help us make that distinction. (Source)

also enforces groupthink around "my class sucks".
And anyone who intrudes to disagree either "doesn't understand our issues" or is accused of trolling. (Source)
I'll say it again: You will never get as good feedback as you will get from the class specific forums. Ever.
Not from where I sit. Now it's possible to have healthy debate in class forums, but I rarely see it, and I read a lot of forums. (Source)

I think that would just move the echo chamber somewhere else. Vidcast discussion panels with top players/TCs.
It's interesting that panels and podcasts tend to invite dissenting opinions (w/in reason). (Source)
I think they understand that (softly) competitive structure yields more interesting & informed discussions. (Source)
I disagree that it's the format - more the interaction. If there's more from blues I believe you'd see more healthy discussion
The problem is the developers themselves are very busy and can't afford to spend hours per day in forums. (Twitter is fast.) (Source)

Why is the echo chamber a problem? Not trying to be sarcastic; trying to understand what alternate state is desired.
We're not saying there aren't class problems, but when everything is portrayed as a crisis, it's hard to know really needs fixing. (Source)
The echo chamber effect can also cause thought leaders or eloquent posters to create mountains out of molehills. (Source)
It's nice to get a "um your DPS is fine" dissenting opinion, but those "trolls" get chased out of class-specific threads. (Source)
you're guilty of this sort over tweets. 'We like where xx is at'. Some weeks later hotfix or minor patch and buffs appear
That is ultimately the system working though. Sometimes players convince us a change is necessary. Other times data prove us wrong. (Source)

Legitimate contributors are discouraged from posting because of toxic abusive posters. Remove problems, contributors return?
I used to subscribe to that more, but over moderation can also create fear and resentment. (Source)
It's also something we can't enforce on websites other than our own, but conversations certainly take place there. (Source)

Bold idea: remove class forums. No echo. "Answers/Advice For New Players" can be its own forum instead.
It's not strictly a "class subforum" problem. Even general forums spawn class-specific threads. (Source)

And to be clear, I do think that blues should always be very careful when they decide to post in a class forum.
I don't personally post in class forums anymore (or rarely anywhere). It caused more QQ than it solved IMO. (Source)
Even today you see Why didn't we get posts / as many posts / as many substantial posts / more posts b/c our issues are worse? (Source)

Reputation / Questing
I should clarify... levelling ONE char was fun. Levelling more in MoP was not.
That's fair criticism. We hoped that choices like Four Winds vs. Krasarang would help the second time around. (Source)

I'm wondering, how do you guys consider MOP levelling? A success, failure / could be better? I find it rather boring.
We think it was probably a little slow overall. At launch, you did a bunch of quests and saw the XP bar grow only a little. (Source)
We buffed the leveling speed a patch or two ago. It feels better now IMO. (Source)

can we get option to show rep gain in quest dialog?
We explored this, but many quests offer rep for multiple factions (like e.g. all Alliance cities) and it was really spammy. (Source)

So you'd rather people get burnt out on gearing, than actually participate because it's fun?
We find most players won't participate in any activity without motivation from rewards that improve power. (Source)
In fact the opposite can also be true: if we're not careful, players will engage in unfun things just for the power rewards. (Source)
You mean daily quests?
Or chain running Mechanar. Or farming Sunwell trash. The list goes on. (Source)

I hate to sound like an echo chamber, but dailies feeling required are why I'm not playing Mists.
I think your information might be fairly old. The new patch has virtually no dailies. It still has a lot to do. (Source)

Computers - Setup of the Month (by chaud)
Each month or every 2 months, depending on the hardware evolutions, the lovely chaud will work on a couple of hardware setups for those of you who are thinking of upgrading their computer!

This month
New GPUs from AMD are on the way, so if you are only upgrading your GPU it might be worth it to wait a month or two.

The current SSD prices are stable, with most SSDs under $1 per gigabyte when on sale. RAM prices are continuing to climb.

The Haswell CPUs from Intel are here and they run a little bit on the warmer side. Depending on how much you want to overclock, you may need to spend a bit more for a better CPU cooler like the NH-D14 or H90.

Unless you are doing a lot of video rendering or something that is similarly multithreaded, you do not need the 4770K and should spend that money elsewhere.

Make sure to keep your AMD and Nvidia drivers up to date.

Don't hesitate to post any feedback in the comments of that news post, and don't forget to visit the Computer Forum for any extra questions! If you are interested in [email protected], take a look in our team's thread.

ComponentPuppy Dolphin
MonitorAsus VE228H 21.5-Inch Monitor - $127ASUS VS248H-P 24-Inch Monitor - $160
KeyboardKensington Pro Fit Media Keyboard - $18Cyborg V.5 - $48
MouseLogitech G400s - $44Razer Deathadder - $48
SpeakersCreative A220 2.1 Speaker System - $26Logitech Z313 Speaker System - $35
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
MonitorAsus VE258Q 25-Inch Monitor - $216HP ZR2440W 24-inch - $367
KeyboardLogitech G510 - $79Razer BlackWidow (Backlit)- $70 ($120)
MouseLogitech G500 - $52Razer Naga (Buttons on the Side) - $70
SpeakersLogitech Z323 2.1 Speaker System - $55Logitech Speaker System Z523 - $66

Puppy and Dolphin
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Puppy and Dolphin.
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
CaseNZXT Source 210 - $36NZXT Source 210 - $36
Power SupplyCorsair CX500 - $45XFX Core Edition PRO 550W - $61
CPUAMD FX-6300 - $120AMD FX-8320 - $154
HeatsinkCooler Master Hyper 212 Plus - $18Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $33
MotherboardASUS M5A97 R2.0 - $103ASUS M5A99FX PRO - $115
MemoryKingston HyperX Blu 4GB 1333 - $418GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $79
Graphics CardXFX 7770 - $95Gigabyte 7870 2 GB or Gigabyte GTX 660 OC - $190 / $180
Hard DriveWestern Digital Caviar Blue 500GB - $56Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB - $85
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$536$765 - $775

Narwhal and Unicorn
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Narwhal and Unicorn.
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
CaseCooler Master HAF 912 - $60Corsair Air 540 (Special Layout) - $140
Power SupplyCorsair 650TX V2 - $87Corsair 750HX - $110
CPUIntel i5-4670K - $241Intel i7-4770K - $340
HeatsinkThermaltake Frio - $56Noctua 6 NH-D14 - $77
MotherboardASUS Z87-A - $140ASUS Z87-PLUS - $155
Memory8GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $7916GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $153
Graphics CardMSI 7950 OR MSI N760 TF - $265 / $260Gigabyte 7970 - $280
Hard DriveWestern Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85
SSDSAMSUNG 840 128GB (Review) - $95
Plextor 128 GB M5 Pro (Review) - $116
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB (Review) - $125
SAMSUNG 840 Pro 128GB (Review) - $133
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$1125 - $1151$1457 - $1495

Heroes of the Storm Trademark
The Heroes of the Storm trademark from last week appears to have been applied for in the US database now as well. Keep in mind that nothing is confirmed until trademarks are granted.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Heroic Garrosh Defeated, SoO Heroic Progression, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month started by chaud View original post
Comments 246 Comments
  1. finchna's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    ON 10m it is the same stats, just the gear they can get invalidates it.
    oops, thanks for the clarification!
  1. Therec's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post

    Back then though everyone could do that. Asia is the only one like that now.
    Right. My point though is overgearing an encounter makes so many things trivial, so I dont get why people are impressed. Its like taking a group now to go become the "world first 5-man" of a previous tier, grats that you did it but there are tons of other people who could do it too with an overgeared item level.
  1. kenshinag's Avatar
    Oh mannnnnn I thought that the dark below WASSSSSS the new expansion?!?!?! It HADDDDDD to be the new expansion with all the enthusiasm I read about it the past couple months.
  1. BatteredRose's Avatar
    Grats to them! Also, LOL @ the naysayers!
  1. Repefe's Avatar
    Gratz to them; and it's not world first ... it's asia's first. With the difference between clients there are no longer world firsts when it comes to boss kills in WoW.
  1. VanishO2's Avatar
    Lol... crap news...

    Can run both 10 and 25 per week;
    Have high ilvl gear;
    Grab tons of higher ilvl 25man + 10man gear and kill 10man heroic garrosh.

    "Gratz" lol.
  1. Chaotiq's Avatar
    Clever use of game mechanics?
  1. Sinraye's Avatar
    Congratz on world first kill!
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoss17 View Post
    Seriously, we shouldn't be the ones to whine since none of us probably ain't in the top guilds.
    So who cares that they're different down made by different people ?

    If it bothers top guolds then they should be the one to complain to Blizzard.
    Blizzard never made any rank in pve, PUG did.
    Yeah there is nothing wrong with a EU or US guild getting world second. I'll end up getting world 1000 so I'm not one to talk. And if the top guilds don't like that asia has a slight advantage it's their job to complain about it not ours. It's Blizzards game, they decide the rules. They chose to give them an advantage so we can't complain about an asian guild getting world first. They're not cheating, they're not playing a different game, they're not on another planet like the fanboys in here are laughably going on about.
  1. Tyandor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    That's like saying if Blood Legion gets world first it doesn't count because they had an extra day head start every week. Sorry, but they play World of Warcraft on the planet earth therefore it is world first. No amount of Method/Paragon/Blood Legion fanboys can change that fact.
    Oh, it's still a first, but a first on a different race. Technically speaking the Asians and the Western people aren't competing against eachother simply because it's not the same race.
  1. olzenkhaw's Avatar
    Gratz. US/EU sure down Heroic Garrosh this week!
  1. Art3x's Avatar
    So the last phase of Garrosh encounter takes place at SW harbor?
  1. I Knew It's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by VanishO2 View Post
    Lol... crap news...

    Can run both 10 and 25 per week;
    Have high ilvl gear;
    Grab tons of higher ilvl 25man + 10man gear and kill 10man heroic garrosh.

    "Gratz" lol.
    Pretty much this. They are basically playing a different game. Also, they get two resets of both 10 and 25 per week.

    Not a legitimate world first, at least not in regards to EU and US.
  1. Suggs's Avatar
    Gz on world first, dont listen to the other 4 pages of butthurt paragon/method ass kissers thats normal in the plagued community on mmo champion.
  1. Morgaith's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by I Knew It View Post
    Pretty much this. They are basically playing a different game. Also, they get two resets of both 10 and 25 per week.

    Not a legitimate world first, at least not in regards to EU and US.

    agreed, and i don't even play anymore.

    It's just not legit to call it "world first" if it's not the same experience for everyone.
  1. Winterstrife's Avatar
    World first's is world's first. Don't matter to me which country won or what ilvl gear they had (to point this out in the main post, the admins seems to kinda bias to US/EU groups).
    Grats to them!
  1. Velerios's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyandor View Post
    Oh, it's still a first, but a first on a different race. Technically speaking the Asians and the Western people aren't competing against eachother simply because it's not the same race.

    Why didn't you simply answered that Asia and western cannot competete because WoW is there a different game; but to say something like this is really bad; please keep ethnics outside of mmo-champion!!!

    But yes, We cannot compare asia wow with eu/us-wow: They have a BIIIIIIG difference:

    10 Player and 25 Player are there like in WotLK, and the ilvl-difference is also very big!

    They have

    1.) Different Lockouts on 10 and 25 Player: so they gain far more loot
    2.) Higher ilvl: yes the bosses there are also stronger, but maybe not enough
    But the BIGGEST difference is:
    3.) 25 Player drops higher ilvl than 10 Player. So it is like in WotLK: 10 Player get easily defeated with 25 man gear; because the boss on 10 Player is tuned for the gear that drops in 10 Player-mode; not for items that drops in 25 man.

    So it is a first kill; but asia is not really in direct combat with EU/US. I really hope that blizzard change the problems there so that EU/US can be competitive with asia anymore: if they have higher ilvl; the boss should be more tuned; if they can get loot in 10 and 25 mode

    But the most important thing is: For the first kill blizzard should let them downscale the ilvl of 25 man drops to 10 man drops if they go into 10 man heroic: at least until the competition of the first kill is over.
  1. mikencarly's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rsabin View Post
    Still waiting the true WoW world first.
    The game in Asia in not WoW, it's only a mod with cheats. Deal with that.
    To late already happened.they got world first wow is wow no matter what region.
  1. Zarog's Avatar
    Everybody is arguing that wow is wow no matter where it is. The people who think it doesn't count as a real world first are kind of right. What they got was an Asian world first, if anything there are two. Whether or not people want to admit it, the Asians really do have an advantage, with access to better gear faster than the EU/West.
  1. JainaIsAMan's Avatar
    2 lockouts per week
    10-25 separate lockouts.

    This means in this same amount of time, they've ran 10 and 25 probably 6 times each. 25 man does have bosses that are 10% stronger, but they beat it in 10 man with the upgraded 25 man gear (which is quite a bit higher in ilvl in Asia). I'll count this as a feat when wearing heroic gear to beat normal becomes a feat.

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