MMO-Champion - Heroic Garrosh Defeated, SoO Heroic Progression, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month
AH Update, Blizzard Working on Cinematic Auto-Skipping, Book of Tyrael at NY Comic Con, Curse Weekly Roundup

Heroic Garrosh Defeated
The 10 player Heroic Garrosh encounter has been defeated in Asia by 天 啟. The group had a 573+ item level, compared to the top US and EU guilds that currently have a 565 item level.



Siege of Orgrimmar Heroic Progression
Method, Blood Legion, and Exorsus are leading progress with 13/14 bosses down now, followed by five other guilds at 12/14. Over in the 10 player column, Paragon and Depraved are leading with 13/14 bosses down.



Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Class Balance Discussion
For discussion: How to solve the problem that most class discussions happen in sequestered class forums, which tend to have an echo chamber? (Source)
must ask whats good bout discussion? Just lots of opinons?maybe in game sticky so anyone can say what they likehate bout class
Discussions tend to dismantle weak arguments and let stronger ones rise to the top. Discussions are like lists + evolution. (Source)
Doesn't stop many common opinions in the community that have been dismantled time and time again.
I agree with that, though I think that's a function of online discussion forums typically having rapid turnover. (Source)

change the format. and both use formats which generate a lot of traction. Forums are becoming antiquated.
Videos take too long to watch (esp with ads). I don't get the appeal. I like Reddit though. (Source)

..and that brings it back to my initial problem. The echo chamber argument is pretty weak....
I agree with Lhivera. The echo chamber effect resists debates and encourages brofisting. (Source)
Sounds harsh and elitist, but their progress and experience tells the same story 95% of the time.
But aren't you essentially arguing that the players are usually right? That is by far not the case. They are right... sometimes. (Source)

Arguments for a real problem and for a bogus problem will look very similar in a brofisting context.
Think of it from our POV, where there are always far more demands from players than the game really needs. (Source)
Separating good arguments from bad is non-trivial, so seeing a healthy debate w/ many POVs can help us make that distinction. (Source)

also enforces groupthink around "my class sucks".
And anyone who intrudes to disagree either "doesn't understand our issues" or is accused of trolling. (Source)
I'll say it again: You will never get as good feedback as you will get from the class specific forums. Ever.
Not from where I sit. Now it's possible to have healthy debate in class forums, but I rarely see it, and I read a lot of forums. (Source)

I think that would just move the echo chamber somewhere else. Vidcast discussion panels with top players/TCs.
It's interesting that panels and podcasts tend to invite dissenting opinions (w/in reason). (Source)
I think they understand that (softly) competitive structure yields more interesting & informed discussions. (Source)
I disagree that it's the format - more the interaction. If there's more from blues I believe you'd see more healthy discussion
The problem is the developers themselves are very busy and can't afford to spend hours per day in forums. (Twitter is fast.) (Source)

Why is the echo chamber a problem? Not trying to be sarcastic; trying to understand what alternate state is desired.
We're not saying there aren't class problems, but when everything is portrayed as a crisis, it's hard to know really needs fixing. (Source)
The echo chamber effect can also cause thought leaders or eloquent posters to create mountains out of molehills. (Source)
It's nice to get a "um your DPS is fine" dissenting opinion, but those "trolls" get chased out of class-specific threads. (Source)
you're guilty of this sort over tweets. 'We like where xx is at'. Some weeks later hotfix or minor patch and buffs appear
That is ultimately the system working though. Sometimes players convince us a change is necessary. Other times data prove us wrong. (Source)

Legitimate contributors are discouraged from posting because of toxic abusive posters. Remove problems, contributors return?
I used to subscribe to that more, but over moderation can also create fear and resentment. (Source)
It's also something we can't enforce on websites other than our own, but conversations certainly take place there. (Source)

Bold idea: remove class forums. No echo. "Answers/Advice For New Players" can be its own forum instead.
It's not strictly a "class subforum" problem. Even general forums spawn class-specific threads. (Source)

And to be clear, I do think that blues should always be very careful when they decide to post in a class forum.
I don't personally post in class forums anymore (or rarely anywhere). It caused more QQ than it solved IMO. (Source)
Even today you see Why didn't we get posts / as many posts / as many substantial posts / more posts b/c our issues are worse? (Source)

Reputation / Questing
I should clarify... levelling ONE char was fun. Levelling more in MoP was not.
That's fair criticism. We hoped that choices like Four Winds vs. Krasarang would help the second time around. (Source)

I'm wondering, how do you guys consider MOP levelling? A success, failure / could be better? I find it rather boring.
We think it was probably a little slow overall. At launch, you did a bunch of quests and saw the XP bar grow only a little. (Source)
We buffed the leveling speed a patch or two ago. It feels better now IMO. (Source)

can we get option to show rep gain in quest dialog?
We explored this, but many quests offer rep for multiple factions (like e.g. all Alliance cities) and it was really spammy. (Source)

So you'd rather people get burnt out on gearing, than actually participate because it's fun?
We find most players won't participate in any activity without motivation from rewards that improve power. (Source)
In fact the opposite can also be true: if we're not careful, players will engage in unfun things just for the power rewards. (Source)
You mean daily quests?
Or chain running Mechanar. Or farming Sunwell trash. The list goes on. (Source)

I hate to sound like an echo chamber, but dailies feeling required are why I'm not playing Mists.
I think your information might be fairly old. The new patch has virtually no dailies. It still has a lot to do. (Source)

Computers - Setup of the Month (by chaud)
Each month or every 2 months, depending on the hardware evolutions, the lovely chaud will work on a couple of hardware setups for those of you who are thinking of upgrading their computer!

This month
New GPUs from AMD are on the way, so if you are only upgrading your GPU it might be worth it to wait a month or two.

The current SSD prices are stable, with most SSDs under $1 per gigabyte when on sale. RAM prices are continuing to climb.

The Haswell CPUs from Intel are here and they run a little bit on the warmer side. Depending on how much you want to overclock, you may need to spend a bit more for a better CPU cooler like the NH-D14 or H90.

Unless you are doing a lot of video rendering or something that is similarly multithreaded, you do not need the 4770K and should spend that money elsewhere.

Make sure to keep your AMD and Nvidia drivers up to date.

Don't hesitate to post any feedback in the comments of that news post, and don't forget to visit the Computer Forum for any extra questions! If you are interested in Folding@home, take a look in our team's thread.


Peripherals/Monitors
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
MonitorAsus VE228H 21.5-Inch Monitor - $127ASUS VS248H-P 24-Inch Monitor - $160
KeyboardKensington Pro Fit Media Keyboard - $18Cyborg V.5 - $48
MouseLogitech G400s - $44Razer Deathadder - $48
SpeakersCreative A220 2.1 Speaker System - $26Logitech Z313 Speaker System - $35
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
MonitorAsus VE258Q 25-Inch Monitor - $216HP ZR2440W 24-inch - $367
KeyboardLogitech G510 - $79Razer BlackWidow (Backlit)- $70 ($120)
MouseLogitech G500 - $52Razer Naga (Buttons on the Side) - $70
SpeakersLogitech Z323 2.1 Speaker System - $55Logitech Speaker System Z523 - $66


Puppy and Dolphin
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Puppy and Dolphin.
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
CaseNZXT Source 210 - $36NZXT Source 210 - $36
Power SupplyCorsair CX500 - $45XFX Core Edition PRO 550W - $61
CPUAMD FX-6300 - $120AMD FX-8320 - $154
HeatsinkCooler Master Hyper 212 Plus - $18Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $33
MotherboardASUS M5A97 R2.0 - $103ASUS M5A99FX PRO - $115
MemoryKingston HyperX Blu 4GB 1333 - $418GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $79
Graphics CardXFX 7770 - $95Gigabyte 7870 2 GB or Gigabyte GTX 660 OC - $190 / $180
Hard DriveWestern Digital Caviar Blue 500GB - $56Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB - $85
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$536$765 - $775


Narwhal and Unicorn
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Narwhal and Unicorn.
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
CaseCooler Master HAF 912 - $60Corsair Air 540 (Special Layout) - $140
Power SupplyCorsair 650TX V2 - $87Corsair 750HX - $110
CPUIntel i5-4670K - $241Intel i7-4770K - $340
HeatsinkThermaltake Frio - $56Noctua 6 NH-D14 - $77
MotherboardASUS Z87-A - $140ASUS Z87-PLUS - $155
Memory8GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $7916GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $153
Graphics CardMSI 7950 OR MSI N760 TF - $265 / $260Gigabyte 7970 - $280
Hard DriveWestern Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85
SSDSAMSUNG 840 128GB (Review) - $95
OR
Plextor 128 GB M5 Pro (Review) - $116
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB (Review) - $125
OR
SAMSUNG 840 Pro 128GB (Review) - $133
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$1125 - $1151$1457 - $1495


Heroes of the Storm Trademark
The Heroes of the Storm trademark from last week appears to have been applied for in the US database now as well. Keep in mind that nothing is confirmed until trademarks are granted.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Heroic Garrosh Defeated, SoO Heroic Progression, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month started by chaud View original post
Comments 246 Comments
  1. Ylera's Avatar
    10 ilvl headstart? the west first will be way more impressive
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by I Knew It View Post
    They are basically playing a different game..
    What's the game called? I might pick it up if it's any good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterstrife View Post
    World first's is world's first. Don't matter to me which country won or what ilvl gear they had (to point this out in the main post, the admins seems to kinda bias to US/EU groups).
    Grats to them!
    There is a reason for that. MMOchamp is Blood Legion's ass kissing site. We've seen that when Method gets world first but Blood Legion's video is the one on the front page cause of their association.
  1. Thanatoss's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    What's the game called? I might pick it up if it's any good.
    It's called World of Warcraft: Asia client. Twice as many lock-outs, better gear in 25's, soon to be cash shop, and pay by hour instead of sub
  1. Durandro's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    There is a reason for that. MMOchamp is Blood Legion's ass kissing site. We've seen that when Method gets world first but Blood Legion's video is the one on the front page cause of their association.
    They kiss Method's ass sometimes too. Like when completely ignoring the fact Paragon killed Lei Shen Heroic on 10 man first (and Method and Blood Legion played along with this too by claiming World First and World Second in big noticable numbers, then adding 25 man in much smaller numbers. Very deceptive).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatoss View Post
    It's called World of Warcraft: Asia client. Twice as many lock-outs, better gear in 25's, soon to be cash shop, and pay by hour instead of sub
    And no corpses or skeletons. At least in the Chinese version.
  1. pikkuhukka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntaer View Post
    That shit doesn't count, asia has more ilvl than the "normal" people >.>
    i SO agree with you, its 10man, it doesnt count, ONLY 25 MAN COUNTS /:=)
  1. Nzx's Avatar
    Looks like the poster missed the "World First" in front of "Heroic Garrosh Defeated" there. Nice try with the "oh but they have 8 ilvls on us" defense as well. Face it, they did it first and outplayed all of the US/EU guilds. If they were as good as you all like to believe they are they would have outplayed and 8 ilvl difference by now but they haven't.. Because the Asian guild was better. ggnore asia wins the world first race again
  1. Thaleous's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Looks like the poster missed the "World First" in front of "Heroic Garrosh Defeated" there. Nice try with the "oh but they have 8 ilvls on us" defense as well. Face it, they did it first and outplayed all of the US/EU guilds. If they were as good as you all like to believe they are they would have outplayed and 8 ilvl difference by now but they haven't.. Because the Asian guild was better. ggnore asia wins the world first race again
    Asain guilds haven't had a significant world first since Yogg Saron, except in Dragon Soul and just now, both of those times they had an advantage that others did not; so, you cannot say that gear doesn't make a difference. It doesn't matter how good of a guild you are, you're going to get beat to a boss kill when someone has significantly greater gear. It's like saying that an Asain guild got world first Ragnaros when they have Dragon Soul gear. While yes, they did get world first, it's just not comparable to non-Asain guilds because their gear was far better. If the Asain guild had killed Heroic Garrosh Hellscream on 25 man, it would have been a different story, but they didn't.
  1. Duerma's Avatar
    Totally doesn't count. Method and Legion would have it too if they had double lockouts. :P
  1. ashblond's Avatar
    Big Grats! on the World First and Asia First heroic Garrosh kill. Now let's see who can get world's first 25 man.
  1. Eclypse's Avatar
    Time passes... years go by... but people instead of getting smarter they get dumber by the day. I find that hilarious. I know a lot of you are kids, so you don't know better and you may never do. But anyone saying that people against this are Method/BL fanboy need to get their heads checked for "aggravated lack of some sort of intelligence".
    How can any of you enlighten people even for a second agree to call an Asian kill on a different client with a different set of rules a World first kill? Plz, stop being anti regions and use your damn head for once. They had access to gear no one else in any other region can, then they used it to kill 10 man HC, which has the same difficult then any other 10 man HC in the world. So let's pretend the immense difference in gear stats doesn't help achieving dps requirements, tank survivability or healing capability needed in some fights and instead let's claim it's lack of EU/US/AU skill to down bosses tuned for those regions with lower ilvs gear.
    Intelligence, good judgement and knowledge are not something easy to acquire these days it seems... if some you want to keep showing here how you lack all 3 of those then be my guest. One thing are different opinions another is the complete unawareness of how things work and should be judged in specific circumstances.
    Gz for their Asian World first. Still waiting for the World First...
  1. Sinn's Avatar
    8 average ilvl is a world, when it comes to world first, hence the mention and the persistent interest in the still ongoing eu/us race (btw I don't care much about world first. And asian firsts, 10-man and 25-man first all have my admiration because they all are different ways (strategy in the asian case) to play the game)
    What I find surprising is that neither 10-man nor 25-man seem to have a net advantage on the other on this race. They pretty much had a similar progression in regard of time of bosses kills.
  1. crazy8's Avatar
    8 average ilvl is huge in a race that you sometimes wipe at 0.1%.
  1. Dom's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Looks like the poster missed the "World First" in front of "Heroic Garrosh Defeated" there. Nice try with the "oh but they have 8 ilvls on us" defense as well. Face it, they did it first and outplayed all of the US/EU guilds. If they were as good as you all like to believe they are they would have outplayed and 8 ilvl difference by now but they haven't.. Because the Asian guild was better. ggnore asia wins the world first race again
    0/10 too obvious.
  1. Bluespirit's Avatar
    Blizzard failed, doesn't count, double lockouts don't count. More ilevel isn't even balanced. Blizzard failed.
  1. Alth's Avatar
    Cool. 10 Man in Asia is the same as 10man in EU. Except they have better gear and more lockouts. Pretty sure quite a number of the top EU/US guilds would have had it down for a while now in the same circumstances. Regardless I guess, grats to them, I'm sure it's still a difficult fight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Looks like the poster missed the "World First" in front of "Heroic Garrosh Defeated" there. Nice try with the "oh but they have 8 ilvls on us" defense as well. Face it, they did it first and outplayed all of the US/EU guilds. If they were as good as you all like to believe they are they would have outplayed and 8 ilvl difference by now but they haven't.. Because the Asian guild was better. ggnore asia wins the world first race again
    Please be a troll. Please please oh please be a troll.
  1. corebit's Avatar
    A lot of people conveniently forget that Asian realms also get the patch 2-days later US realms (it used to be a week after) than and they don't get to participate in PTR, whereas US/EU guilds learn the boss fights way before release. The Asian 25-mans also deal more damage, so it balances out with ilvl.

    If you want to scream "unfair", then all previous World First were unfair to the Asian realms.

    10 Man in Asia is the same as 10man in EU. Except they have better gear and more lockouts.
    Asian realms, only 25-mans drop 2/4 gear and increased lockout. 10-mans are exactly the same.
  1. chaud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    They kiss Method's ass sometimes too. Like when completely ignoring the fact Paragon killed Lei Shen Heroic on 10 man first (and Method and Blood Legion played along with this too by claiming World First and World Second in big noticable numbers, then adding 25 man in much smaller numbers. Very deceptive).
    DREAM Paragon Heroic Lei Shen 10 Man World First
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...stone-Gameplay

    Method Heroic Lei Shen 25 Man World First
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ue-Posts-Comic
  1. Freia's Avatar
    25m Asian Guild went in and facerolled 10m in their 25m gear. Anyone who actually thinks that is outplaying western guilds needs a reality check.
  1. JainaIsAMan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    A lot of people conveniently forget that Asian realms also get the patch 2-days later US realms (it used to be a week after) than and they don't get to participate in PTR, whereas US/EU guilds learn the boss fights way before release. The Asian 25-mans also deal more damage, so it balances out with ilvl.

    If you want to scream "unfair", then all previous World First were unfair to the Asian realms.



    Asian realms, only 25-mans drop 2/4 gear and increased lockout. 10-mans are exactly the same.
    10 man and 25 are on separate lockouts.

    Each one can be done twice a week.

    25 man is tuned 10% harder, but the gear is also quite a bit better.

    This guild fed 25-man gear to the 10 best players, while also getting gear in 10, making it so they didn't just get twice the amount of practice and gear, but four times the amount of practice and gear than any other region in the world. I'm sure that FAR more than makes up for a two day loss on time.
  1. corebit's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    25m Asian Guild went in and facerolled 10m in their 25m gear. Anyone who actually thinks that is outplaying western guilds needs a reality check.
    "Outplaying" doesn't matter in the race to world firsts. World Firsts are all about exploiting and cheating as much as possible within the allowed limits. If class-stacking, saronite-bombing, LFR-queing Western guilds get recognized for world firsts, then so does killing Garrosh with higher-ilvl items in my book.

    World first is world first. Take it up with Blizzard if you don't like what they offer to Asian realms, but it's 100% legit.

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