MMO-Champion - Heroic Garrosh Defeated, SoO Heroic Progression, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month
AH Update, Blizzard Working on Cinematic Auto-Skipping, Book of Tyrael at NY Comic Con, Curse Weekly Roundup

Heroic Garrosh Defeated
The 10 player Heroic Garrosh encounter has been defeated in Asia by 天 啟. The group had a 573+ item level, compared to the top US and EU guilds that currently have a 565 item level.



Siege of Orgrimmar Heroic Progression
Method, Blood Legion, and Exorsus are leading progress with 13/14 bosses down now, followed by five other guilds at 12/14. Over in the 10 player column, Paragon and Depraved are leading with 13/14 bosses down.



Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Class Balance Discussion
For discussion: How to solve the problem that most class discussions happen in sequestered class forums, which tend to have an echo chamber? (Source)
must ask whats good bout discussion? Just lots of opinons?maybe in game sticky so anyone can say what they likehate bout class
Discussions tend to dismantle weak arguments and let stronger ones rise to the top. Discussions are like lists + evolution. (Source)
Doesn't stop many common opinions in the community that have been dismantled time and time again.
I agree with that, though I think that's a function of online discussion forums typically having rapid turnover. (Source)

change the format. and both use formats which generate a lot of traction. Forums are becoming antiquated.
Videos take too long to watch (esp with ads). I don't get the appeal. I like Reddit though. (Source)

..and that brings it back to my initial problem. The echo chamber argument is pretty weak....
I agree with Lhivera. The echo chamber effect resists debates and encourages brofisting. (Source)
Sounds harsh and elitist, but their progress and experience tells the same story 95% of the time.
But aren't you essentially arguing that the players are usually right? That is by far not the case. They are right... sometimes. (Source)

Arguments for a real problem and for a bogus problem will look very similar in a brofisting context.
Think of it from our POV, where there are always far more demands from players than the game really needs. (Source)
Separating good arguments from bad is non-trivial, so seeing a healthy debate w/ many POVs can help us make that distinction. (Source)

also enforces groupthink around "my class sucks".
And anyone who intrudes to disagree either "doesn't understand our issues" or is accused of trolling. (Source)
I'll say it again: You will never get as good feedback as you will get from the class specific forums. Ever.
Not from where I sit. Now it's possible to have healthy debate in class forums, but I rarely see it, and I read a lot of forums. (Source)

I think that would just move the echo chamber somewhere else. Vidcast discussion panels with top players/TCs.
It's interesting that panels and podcasts tend to invite dissenting opinions (w/in reason). (Source)
I think they understand that (softly) competitive structure yields more interesting & informed discussions. (Source)
I disagree that it's the format - more the interaction. If there's more from blues I believe you'd see more healthy discussion
The problem is the developers themselves are very busy and can't afford to spend hours per day in forums. (Twitter is fast.) (Source)

Why is the echo chamber a problem? Not trying to be sarcastic; trying to understand what alternate state is desired.
We're not saying there aren't class problems, but when everything is portrayed as a crisis, it's hard to know really needs fixing. (Source)
The echo chamber effect can also cause thought leaders or eloquent posters to create mountains out of molehills. (Source)
It's nice to get a "um your DPS is fine" dissenting opinion, but those "trolls" get chased out of class-specific threads. (Source)
you're guilty of this sort over tweets. 'We like where xx is at'. Some weeks later hotfix or minor patch and buffs appear
That is ultimately the system working though. Sometimes players convince us a change is necessary. Other times data prove us wrong. (Source)

Legitimate contributors are discouraged from posting because of toxic abusive posters. Remove problems, contributors return?
I used to subscribe to that more, but over moderation can also create fear and resentment. (Source)
It's also something we can't enforce on websites other than our own, but conversations certainly take place there. (Source)

Bold idea: remove class forums. No echo. "Answers/Advice For New Players" can be its own forum instead.
It's not strictly a "class subforum" problem. Even general forums spawn class-specific threads. (Source)

And to be clear, I do think that blues should always be very careful when they decide to post in a class forum.
I don't personally post in class forums anymore (or rarely anywhere). It caused more QQ than it solved IMO. (Source)
Even today you see Why didn't we get posts / as many posts / as many substantial posts / more posts b/c our issues are worse? (Source)

Reputation / Questing
I should clarify... levelling ONE char was fun. Levelling more in MoP was not.
That's fair criticism. We hoped that choices like Four Winds vs. Krasarang would help the second time around. (Source)

I'm wondering, how do you guys consider MOP levelling? A success, failure / could be better? I find it rather boring.
We think it was probably a little slow overall. At launch, you did a bunch of quests and saw the XP bar grow only a little. (Source)
We buffed the leveling speed a patch or two ago. It feels better now IMO. (Source)

can we get option to show rep gain in quest dialog?
We explored this, but many quests offer rep for multiple factions (like e.g. all Alliance cities) and it was really spammy. (Source)

So you'd rather people get burnt out on gearing, than actually participate because it's fun?
We find most players won't participate in any activity without motivation from rewards that improve power. (Source)
In fact the opposite can also be true: if we're not careful, players will engage in unfun things just for the power rewards. (Source)
You mean daily quests?
Or chain running Mechanar. Or farming Sunwell trash. The list goes on. (Source)

I hate to sound like an echo chamber, but dailies feeling required are why I'm not playing Mists.
I think your information might be fairly old. The new patch has virtually no dailies. It still has a lot to do. (Source)

Computers - Setup of the Month (by chaud)
Each month or every 2 months, depending on the hardware evolutions, the lovely chaud will work on a couple of hardware setups for those of you who are thinking of upgrading their computer!

This month
New GPUs from AMD are on the way, so if you are only upgrading your GPU it might be worth it to wait a month or two.

The current SSD prices are stable, with most SSDs under $1 per gigabyte when on sale. RAM prices are continuing to climb.

The Haswell CPUs from Intel are here and they run a little bit on the warmer side. Depending on how much you want to overclock, you may need to spend a bit more for a better CPU cooler like the NH-D14 or H90.

Unless you are doing a lot of video rendering or something that is similarly multithreaded, you do not need the 4770K and should spend that money elsewhere.

Make sure to keep your AMD and Nvidia drivers up to date.

Don't hesitate to post any feedback in the comments of that news post, and don't forget to visit the Computer Forum for any extra questions! If you are interested in Folding@home, take a look in our team's thread.


Peripherals/Monitors
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
MonitorAsus VE228H 21.5-Inch Monitor - $127ASUS VS248H-P 24-Inch Monitor - $160
KeyboardKensington Pro Fit Media Keyboard - $18Cyborg V.5 - $48
MouseLogitech G400s - $44Razer Deathadder - $48
SpeakersCreative A220 2.1 Speaker System - $26Logitech Z313 Speaker System - $35
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
MonitorAsus VE258Q 25-Inch Monitor - $216HP ZR2440W 24-inch - $367
KeyboardLogitech G510 - $79Razer BlackWidow (Backlit)- $70 ($120)
MouseLogitech G500 - $52Razer Naga (Buttons on the Side) - $70
SpeakersLogitech Z323 2.1 Speaker System - $55Logitech Speaker System Z523 - $66


Puppy and Dolphin
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Puppy and Dolphin.
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
CaseNZXT Source 210 - $36NZXT Source 210 - $36
Power SupplyCorsair CX500 - $45XFX Core Edition PRO 550W - $61
CPUAMD FX-6300 - $120AMD FX-8320 - $154
HeatsinkCooler Master Hyper 212 Plus - $18Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $33
MotherboardASUS M5A97 R2.0 - $103ASUS M5A99FX PRO - $115
MemoryKingston HyperX Blu 4GB 1333 - $418GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $79
Graphics CardXFX 7770 - $95Gigabyte 7870 2 GB or Gigabyte GTX 660 OC - $190 / $180
Hard DriveWestern Digital Caviar Blue 500GB - $56Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB - $85
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$536$765 - $775


Narwhal and Unicorn
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Narwhal and Unicorn.
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
CaseCooler Master HAF 912 - $60Corsair Air 540 (Special Layout) - $140
Power SupplyCorsair 650TX V2 - $87Corsair 750HX - $110
CPUIntel i5-4670K - $241Intel i7-4770K - $340
HeatsinkThermaltake Frio - $56Noctua 6 NH-D14 - $77
MotherboardASUS Z87-A - $140ASUS Z87-PLUS - $155
Memory8GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $7916GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $153
Graphics CardMSI 7950 OR MSI N760 TF - $265 / $260Gigabyte 7970 - $280
Hard DriveWestern Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85
SSDSAMSUNG 840 128GB (Review) - $95
OR
Plextor 128 GB M5 Pro (Review) - $116
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB (Review) - $125
OR
SAMSUNG 840 Pro 128GB (Review) - $133
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$1125 - $1151$1457 - $1495


Heroes of the Storm Trademark
The Heroes of the Storm trademark from last week appears to have been applied for in the US database now as well. Keep in mind that nothing is confirmed until trademarks are granted.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Heroic Garrosh Defeated, SoO Heroic Progression, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month started by chaud View original post
Comments 246 Comments
  1. Feliclandelo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyand1337 View Post
    What you are really trying to say: The asians got the world first, but you care about the EU/US first more
    If you read my post, I care about worlds first if they are playing the same client, which they aren't. It's a worlds first, for the asian client. EU/US play the same client, thats why I consider those 2 in the same race.

    I don't know what was so hard to understand from my post.
  1. Freia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    Grats to them.
    Still find it funny how even mmo don't distinguish between 25/10man.
    It's only that 25mans that have arund 565. 10man is around 7-8 ilvl below that, which it isn't balanced around. Just like nothing is balanced around the cloak.
    Better loot-distr, and far more warforged gear matters a lot.

    Most that complains about asia having higher ilvl should in the same sentence agree that 25man is flawed because they have those 6-8 ilvls higher than 10man. To me it's a fair worlds first, just as well as any other world first.
    I don't care about either. Just want an EU guild to down it before an US guild. I'm even more happy if paragon kills them before any 25man.
    No 25m here is balanced around the ilvl and greater gear gain. In asia, they have higher ilvl gear in their 25m and more chances to get tier and trinkets overall. They just geared in 25m than switched and facerolled 10m that is balanced for the lower ilvl gear. Trying to say it is the same as US/EU is completely false.
  1. vendizritz's Avatar
    Who cares world first is still world first so stop trying to take it away from them
  1. tjb490's Avatar
    I'd rather chain Mechanar or other instances to get my stuff then doing dailies. BC was the sweet spot for instances and raids. When are they going to learn?
  1. lockedout's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by vendizritz View Post
    Who cares world first is still world first so stop trying to take it away from them
    They out geared it in 25 man gear with two 25 man lockouts per week and then killing it in 10 man where HP is lowered.
    EU/NA doesn't have this option.
  1. vendizritz's Avatar
    Like I said who cares world first is still world first
  1. Terridon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    No 25m here is balanced around the ilvl and greater gear gain. In asia, they have higher ilvl gear in their 25m and more chances to get tier and trinkets overall. They just geared in 25m than switched and facerolled 10m that is balanced for the lower ilvl gear. Trying to say it is the same as US/EU is completely false.
    It's not balanced around warforged which is common loot on 25 and very rare on 10mans. Warforged is the reward for doing 25man :P
  1. waskas's Avatar
    The thing is that world first in the last patch boss usually implied that the guild was the best of the world for that tier. That is not the case in here, it is obviously a world first, but I don't think ppl is gonna consider them the best guild in this tier.
  1. Notos's Avatar
    This is pretty much the equivalent of 25 man guilds face rolling 10 man Icc back in Wrath, except even moreso because of the extra warforged drops. Totally legit and yet a bit lame and underwhelming.
  1. Velerios's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by vendizritz View Post
    Like I said who cares world first is still world first
    Even if you repeat it 100 times: No it isn't. It is an asia world first; but not a legid one. Blizzard should simply stop to give them too much sugar.

    Do you call Lance Armstrong the best cyclist even after he took performance enhanced drugs (no, i do not trivialize drugs; they are bad); but that how it is: asia sadly got performance enhanced gear compared to the rest of the world. So no, even if you say it again and again and again;

    World first isn't it; but i would simply go away with the term world first:

    There are 4 categories

    Western 1st 10man
    Western 1st 25man
    Eastern 1st 10man
    Eastern 1st 25man

    But there aren't world first anymore. If blizzard want to go back to world 1st, they need to change the rules back that everyone get the same ilvl, and at least the loot rules are the same in the first 4 weeks. Or that they downscale it for the first 4 weeks.
  1. Wayne25uk's Avatar
    Dem crazeh asians...
  1. lyxx's Avatar
    Let me quote manaflask here :

    Unfortunately for Asian top guilds, Blizzard have chosen to change the rules there. They felt these changes - separate lockouts for 10/25 man raids, thus enabling more gear; significantly higher item levels in 25 man as well as 8% hit point and damage increases on 25 man bosses to try and offset that - was what their subscribers in Asia wanted. We cannot regard Asian guilds as competing in the same race anymore, even if they did have more difficult bosses in 25 man, there is simply no way to accurately gage whether this brings them to equal footing with other guilds considering their rather large gear advantage (both in ilevels and extra loot from 10 mans). In 10 man the situation is even worse, as their difficulty is the same as for other world guilds, but Asian guilds still have access to higher level loot (and more thereof) and so the fights become significantly easier.
    Asian world first is irrelevant till Blizzard decide to change rules again.
  1. corebit's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lyxx View Post
    Let me quote manaflask here :



    Asian world first is irrelevant till Blizzard decide to change rules again.
    Oh, did Mana Flask also rail against the fact that Asian realms get the patch days later than US/EU? Does Mana Flask know that Asian guilds do not get access to PTR and learn the boss fights beforehand like US/EU guilds? They should learn not to spout anything "competitive" as it's just laughable.

    Want to know what's truly competitive? Learn from Riot or Valve and how they handle international competition that makes it fair for everyone all over the world.

    Not saying or ignoring the clear advantage that Asian guilds have this time. But when the West gets an advantage as it always had since previous expansions, it's perfectly fine for Mana Flask as they don't bother to point that.
  1. potaco's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Even if you repeat it 100 times: No it isn't. It is an asia world first; but not a legid one. Blizzard should simply stop to give them too much sugar.

    Do you call Lance Armstrong the best cyclist even after he took performance enhanced drugs (no, i do not trivialize drugs; they are bad); but that how it is: asia sadly got performance enhanced gear compared to the rest of the world. So no, even if you say it again and again and again;

    World first isn't it; but i would simply go away with the term world first:

    There are 4 categories

    Western 1st 10man
    Western 1st 25man
    Eastern 1st 10man
    Eastern 1st 25man

    But there aren't world first anymore. If blizzard want to go back to world 1st, they need to change the rules back that everyone get the same ilvl, and at least the loot rules are the same in the first 4 weeks. Or that they downscale it for the first 4 weeks.
    What a silly argument: "It's an Asian world first, but not a world first." By definition, that's exactly what it is. And it's absolutely legit (unless they were hacking or exploiting some way).

    Nobody is saying they beat it the same way or that it's directly comparable to the NA/EU realms, but at the end of the day, they were the first guild in the world to down Heroic Garrosh... hence, world first.
  1. phelioz's Avatar
    I get the argument that the Asian guild had unfair advantage since it had better loot and differen lock outs...
    But going by the same logic, wouldn't that make "10-MAN" the *REAL* world first, since they get less Warforged gear?
    I see people talking about Method and Blood Legion, but shouldn't we be looking to Paragon then?

    Developers themselves already told us that some fights are harder on 10, some on 25... Sure, 25 is harder to organize, but that is not such a issue for hardcore raiders like them because they play this game like a sports team.

    If we are talking about unfair advantage, so we should consider the 'True race' 10-man SoO...

    ---
    Small edit: Average ilevel for those raid teams (from WoWProgress)
    25 heroic
    1st Method: 566,54 (#1 west)
    2nd Blood Legion: 565,29 (#3 west)

    10 heroic
    1st Paragon: 562,27 (#34 west)
    2nd Depraved: 560.27(#97 west)

    There is a clear difference in ilevels between 10-man and 25-man, but the difficult is not meant to be higher in 25... So, wouldn't that be unfair to call a 25 raid team "World First" ?
  1. mitre27's Avatar
    Who cares about worlds first 10man? Especially when they cheese it by using the higher ilevel drops from 25man.
  1. Of-the-horde's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne25uk View Post
    Dem crazeh asians...
    They sure are, haha.
  1. vendizritz's Avatar
    Still the Asian guild was the first in the world to kill garrosh no matter what you say or see different from the way they got higher item lv
  1. Freia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by potaco View Post
    What a silly argument: "It's an Asian world first, but not a world first." By definition, that's exactly what it is. And it's absolutely legit (unless they were hacking or exploiting some way).

    Nobody is saying they beat it the same way or that it's directly comparable to the NA/EU realms, but at the end of the day, they were the first guild in the world to down Heroic Garrosh... hence, world first.
    Actually a lot of people in this thread are saying exactly that. People have specifically said that Asia outplayed EU/US guilds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    It's not balanced around warforged which is common loot on 25 and very rare on 10mans. Warforged is the reward for doing 25man :P
    Provide proof of this.
  1. Wrathbaby's Avatar
    While EU/US cries for casual content (LFR LOL) Asia calls for Hardcore content (Harder bosses, but drop higher ilvl loot)
    It's hilarious you don't recognize them for beating EU/US in the world first race. People on mmo champ SMH

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