MMO-Champion - Armory Stats - Player Raid Completion Rates, Blue Tweets, GW2 on Sale, Fan Art Update
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Armory Stats - Player Raid Completion Rates
Today we are taking a look at the overall raid completion rate of players. Now that achievements are account wide, we can group characters by account and get an idea of what percentage of players (not characters) have completed a raid at least once, based on earning the achievement for the final wing.

The data used today is a sample from 6.3 million characters from 2.5 million accounts. The sample is slightly biased, as players who are not in a guild are much less likely to appear in our sample. You can leave suggestions for future stat posts in the comments!

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Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Raid Finder
GC, lack of tanks has to be one of the main problems you guys need to work on - 45+ min LFR queue as DPS, is just not cool.
It seems to have gotten worse with 5.4. We're looking at the data to try to understand what's going on. (Source)
If you want to know why there is less tanks. Please tank a lfr and you will have your answers.
If that was the only issue, it would likely be a gradual decline not a sudden drop at 5.4. That implies it's flex (or a bug). (Source)

then take a look at it before you say it doesnt guarantee everything.
There are guys in LFR doing 10K dps because they don't realize that e.g. you should use abilities as fast as you can. (Source)
In that environment, being able to do any kind of PG will help teach that player how WoW combat should really be played. (Source)
And yet the enrage timers in SoO LFR are tuned as though this was not the case.
Hitting enrage timers in LFR is nearly always a lack of understanding the mechanics rather than just low DPS. (Source)
That's still on us to fix, but we'd rather not just dial down all the mechanics until you can just ignore them. (Source)
My concern and experience is that SoO LFR seems to be tuned for a level of skill and gear that the mode no longer attracts.
The feedback was very similar for ToT LFR until players knew the fights better. (Source)

No PG experience can be a substitute for the 10 years of raiding that many of us have, but it can serve as an introduction. (Source)
Did i get you wrong that it should be an additional prerequisite? Or would it either be ilevel or pgs?
Yeah, we would never require PGs for LFR. It would just be a way to demonstrate that you didn't need the ilevel. (Source)

Just heard the best description of LFR "If someone tells me to eat a pile of crap for $10 million, I'll eat the pile of crap"
I get that, but there are also heroic raiders who get bored once the loot stops rolling it. (Source)
So you can't just argue that every activity must be so fun that the rewards don't play into someone's desire to do it. (Source)

Please don't remove the ability to enter LFR purely on iLevel. Forcing PG medal would effectively shut off LFR for too many.
The idea I floated, and Olivia even referenced, was PG letting you enter with a lower ilevel because you know what you're doing. (Source)

what is the future for lfr now you have split its community in two with flex raiding. it seems from in game play lfr is done.
LFR is still more popular than flex. However we think flex will be more fun for many of our players so we don't mind some transition (Source)

Why is kick protection a thing? having people do nothing and be toxic intentionally is rather frustrating
It was originally to protect folks in 5-player content from e.g. being kicked so they couldn't roll on loot. (Source)
We are considering that kick rules might be too strict on 25-player LFR, where one toxic player can affect a bunch of others. (Source)

I dont understand why people get so hyped about LFD being unsocial. It isnt.Without it, only a few would see content
It's pretty unsocial but it still serves a valuable purpose. (Source)

Class Balance Discussion
there are dozens of fan sites for that. The entire point of having an official forum is to talk to the devs directly.
Just to be clear, that is not our goal for the official forums. (Source)
question and run stats on the collected data. Allows massive and robust sample.
Agreed, but it has one massive downside, in that there is no back and forth discussion among players, which I really value. (Source)
Regardless, the forums serve two purposes: people complaining to Blizzard; people trolling those people.
While that exists, I find that view a little cynical. There are good discussions with a lot of back and forth as well. (Source)
We learn a lot when there is back and forth between two sides, especially if we can ascertain why they feel a certain way. (Source)

I always see the same people trolling for nerfs and crusading against certain classes. Everyone Is OP except me
As a team, we're a lot more interested in fun than balance. It's just for some players they are tightly connected. (Source)
And of course fun is subjective, so one can't just play the "X isn't fun for me - change it" card. (Source)
That there is too much content that requires balance and not enough content that encourages variety?
It's concern, but we're a lot better at making the "balance" content than we are the "variety" content. (Source)

Guild Wars 2 Sale
It looks like Guild Wars 2 is on sale today, but only until Sunday night at 11:59 PM PDT. This is the lowest sale price so far, so now is a decent time to pick up a copy if you wanted to give it a try. You can find regular GW2 news updates over at GW2Guru.



Fan Art Update
Blizzard has updated the art gallery to feature ten new pieces.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Armory Stats - Player Raid Completion Rates, Blue Tweets, GW2 on Sale, Fan Art Update started by chaud View original post
Comments 101 Comments
  1. Osmeric's Avatar
    The stats show just how few people have finished the legendary quest chain.
  1. schwarzkopf's Avatar
    I hope that it is realised that you can unlink your characters (as I have done) by using an option in game. This means that there can be many characters not tied together via achievement.
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by pimpeddakota View Post
    I blame the community not the player honestly. IF we has a community enforce people actually having to play their toons (vote kick like crazy anybody sub 50k dps, people in current raid tier with no gems/enchants) then we will actually have a change in the community as these players would get fed up with always being kicked after 1 fight in LFR.

    But you people would rather come cry about it on the forums instead of making a change!
    I've done my share of kicking trolls and bums from LFRs. Unfortunately, something was messed up when 5.3 was released that rendered a lot of people unable to initiate vote-kicks whatsoever (yay 2/4 hr error). This resulted in an increased tolerance for bad players because what else are you to do if you can't vote-kick? Leave the LFR and hope you don't get an hour-long queue or more?

    The error has mostly gone away in patch 5.4, thankfully, but I've a hunch we'll be feeling the effects caused by 5.3 for a good while.
  1. Mormolyce's Avatar
    Can you use the Ahead of the Curve achievement to at least distinguish Flexi from NM? And of course the Heroic kill achievement should distinguish HM from NM. Might be an interesting split.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    Do we really need to call in Scooby Do to solve this mystery?

    Tank numbers are down because A) People are fed up with tanking for random people who are jerks B) People who are geared, experienced and willing to tank (and heal) are doing Flex.
    Aren't DPS and heals also fed up with LFR? Why are tanks so much more fed up than the other roles?

    I've tanked LFR and I'd say it's actually the easiest of the three. I suspect the real issue is you can't afk as a tank. Also considering their near-zero queue times a lot of tanks are kind of prima donnas.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    "We're looking at the data to try to understand what's going on."

    Instead of looking at data maybe they could try playing the game. I play the game, so I know why I quit tanking.
  1. MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Completion rates broken out by difficulty would be interesting.

    Completion rates for raids previous to LFR as a comparison to what they are now would also interesting. I'm curious just how much higher it is now than in previous expansions.
  1. Blur4stuff's Avatar
    tanks have more responsibility. dps and heals are easier to play with more room for error. also, you'll notice that older lfr raids don't have as bad of a tank problem. it's easier to do content as an undergeared dps or healer than a tank.

    without making tanking easier, the only way you're gonna get more tanks into lfr is to provide incentive. the cta bonus bag isn't nearly enough since it's usually just a little gold and a useless item. if the cta bag had a significantly higher chance at rare items with a higher gold reward it would help. it also needs guaranteed spirits of harmony, not motes. toss in bonus valor and justice for good measure.

    if that's not good enough then one way to erase the tanking problem is to add items to the cta bag that are no longer obtainable. items that were never obtainable in the game to begin with, too. if you put asian only pets in there, blizzard event rewards from the past, etc... the tank issue would disappear.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    tanks have more responsibility. dps and heals are easier to play with more room for error. also, you'll notice that older lfr raids don't have as bad of a tank problem. it's easier to do content as an undergeared dps or healer than a tank.

    without making tanking easier, the only way you're gonna get more tanks into lfr is to provide incentive. the cta bonus bag isn't nearly enough since it's usually just a little gold and a useless item. if the cta bag had a significantly higher chance at rare items with a higher gold reward it would help. it also needs guaranteed spirits of harmony, not motes. toss in bonus valor and justice for good measure.

    if that's not good enough then one way to erase the tanking problem is to add items to the cta bag that are no longer obtainable. items that were never obtainable in the game to begin with, too. if you put asian only pets in there, blizzard event rewards from the past, etc... the tank issue would disappear.
    Or they could make tanking fun, instead of lazily throwing useless rewards out to try and bribe us. It's a game, you play it to have fun not to do something you don't want to do because there might be a mount in the bag.
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixis View Post
    If you'd have waited a week or two, the number of people who'd completed SoO mighta shot up, as it is, people who only raid LFR such as myself, won't figure in the stats at all as he's not released yet.

    (and now i see you referenced that yourself in your comment )
    Yeah, not sure what purpose there is of even putting that chart up there. It just begs to be misinterpreted. Flex has only been out for a short time, and LFR not at all. This chart should have been put up the week before 5.4, or else waited another month. The only thing it really shows is how few people raid compared to how many do LFR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    I'm just shocked that the percentage of people doing normals and flex is so low.
    Flex has only been out a short time.

    But really, if anything, this graph should be a huge b-slap at those people who want LFR removed. What this graph does show is that the vast majority of people clearing a boss, are doing it on LFR. If they removed LFR, then the dev time that would be devoted to raiding would be slashed significantly to match the % as seen on this chart for SoO

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    "We're looking at the data to try to understand what's going on."

    Instead of looking at data maybe they could try playing the game. I play the game, so I know why I quit tanking.
    The whole irony of LFR and vote-kicking is pretty much the only people I ever see get kicked out are tanks.

    We will see what they have to do, but I think it is just the success of Flex. If you are a decent tank, there is no reason to be in LFR now. Flex does the same thing and you are grouped with people who are socially accountable, which makes all the difference. Tanking LFR is easy, but it is painfully slow. I did a Immerseus recently and it felt like it took a year to kill him. There was no chance of wiping, and nobody was dying.. but phases were just taking forever... I dropped group and said never again. My top raiding will be Flex mode, but I can tank all the bosses already, so getting an upgrade in LFR doesn´t feel that important to me, not enough to deal with how long it takes.
  1. Evory's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chaud View Post
    Just US and EU. Comparing the different difficulties is slightly harder since you can't use achievements anymore, but I am going to look into using the kill counts that you see at the bottom of armory profiles to do so. Not sure how accurate they are, as there are fun bugs like Paragon kills never showing up.
    Should be easy enough to distinguish normal vs heroic as you gain Ahead of the curve on normal and Cutting Edge on heroic, though don't think there is anything to separate LFR/Flex as both will just gain Downfall afaik.
  1. Baine's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    Only 2% finished SoO.

    98% are baddies or unsubbed.
    If 98% are baddies, they are the majority so they are not bad. It is the 2% who is better
  1. nekobaka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    "We're looking at the data to try to understand what's going on."

    Instead of looking at data maybe they could try playing the game. I play the game, so I know why I quit tanking.
    Oh he does, but he is a heroic raider who does not have time for such low level stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Flex has only been out a short time.

    But really, if anything, this graph should be a huge b-slap at those people who want LFR removed. What this graph does show is that the vast majority of people clearing a boss, are doing it on LFR. If they removed LFR, then the dev time that would be devoted to raiding would be slashed significantly to match the % as seen on this chart for SoO
    The vast majority of normal mode and even flex raiders have not cleared SoO. A bunch of progression oriented guilds that do heroic modes later on have also not fully cleared normal. First you complain about players jumping the gun and misinterpreting the SoO numbers and yet you do it yourself.
  1. Alakallanar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    tanks have more responsibility. dps and heals are easier to play with more room for error. also, you'll notice that older lfr raids don't have as bad of a tank problem. it's easier to do content as an undergeared dps or healer than a tank.
    Tanks usually have more responsibility and less room for error than healers, which again have more responsibility and less room for error than dds. But I wouldn't say they are harder to play. Just because errors have harsher consequences doesn't mean that errors are also easier to make.
  1. det's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Good lord, where did all of the raiders go? Would be interesting to see current sub numbers.
    If they sampled 2.5 million players (in the west) and 75% of them completed..say Mogushan Vaults, there you have your 1.8 million ppl that raid and this number is higher than raiding participation even in ICC with weekly quests and a 30% buff was. These 1.8 million are everyone from heroic to LFR

    The "real raiders" are the 50 000 ppl that are 14/14 normal according to wowprogress or possibly including flex the percentage that is shown on the graph (5%?). Wing 4 isn't even open on LFR, right?

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...hanics-DLC-411 - right! Flex wing 4 opened last week, LFR opens this.

    So..not sure what you mean where all the raiders are? The first raids have been available for months and months, all content is not yet availabale to all difficulties.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    Only 2% finished SoO.

    98% are baddies or unsubbed.
    Well I better get used to off hand remarks like your, naturally I cannot. I like to call you a baddy with the same rights if you haven't finished 14/14 HM.
    Then again, it is ignoring that only 2.5 million raiding people were sampled apparently and this is a completion rate. Millions of others DO NOT CARE about raids

    Lastly: LFR cannot yet access wing 4 of SoO

    Thus is the danger of statistics.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    "We're looking at the data to try to understand what's going on."

    Instead of looking at data maybe they could try playing the game. I play the game, so I know why I quit tanking.
    Yes, that is fair, so tell them. But remember: You are not the center of the game or the universe. What if your reason was "My wife had a baby"? How would we balance the game around that info?

    And the devs are clever enough (certainly more than players) to know that even around THEM the universe does not revolve. What shitstorm would happen if they went "We play the game, we think it is fine". Ofc they play the game. Still...feedback and data from 100 000 players is better than from 10...or just from you.

    I wonder why that is so hard to see?
  1. faerierhona's Avatar
    I understand LFR folks being frustrated at lack of tanks and healers, but to be honest Blizz aren't encouraging us. I don't need loot there, but did some for the satchel - then it didn't drop. So I raised a ticket and basically got told "yeah we know it's a bug, if that's the only reason you do LFR right now we suggest you don't, you're not getting the satchel awarded after the fact"

    So, that being my *only* reason to ever do LFR, I did as the GM suggested and stopped doing it.

    And yes, it is also frustrating that people like me demand PG, achievements, tactics and 550+ ilevel for Flex and so folks can't get in(and I kick people who can't show they know tactics) but honestly I am finding LFR level people trying to do Flex, who lie about knowing the tactics and wipe us repeatedly, especially using oQueue. At least with those things I stand a chance of them having looked at the tactics and having a clue. I get a ton of abuse for it, but all I am asking is 15 minutes spent reading a site and looking at a video.

    If LFR actually starts offering a decent reward for people like me, we might come back and tank or heal it, but meanwhile the reason so many of us won't do LFR is down to *LFR players* not down to Blizz. It's just that Blizz aren't rewarding us for taking the pile of crap that comes with putting up with those players
  1. Dawnday's Avatar
    Ive played tank for 8 years now. Tanked every boss there is on every mode there ever was. Even in LFR when it was introduced. I honestly think that in its...

    If you want to know why there is less tanks. Please tank a lfr and you will have your answers.

    ..subtleness, that is the reason why tanks are shying away from LFR. Its a cesspool of toxic, unskilled, rude, and impatient people. I dont think ghostcrab even knowns half of it.

    I used to do some LFR. But for many months already im done with it. For good.
  1. Triklops's Avatar
    Very interesting analysis. It shows that the number of "real" raiders (hc, normal, flex) is really low while the majority seems to enjoy LFR. That is really funny, especially if you compare it to the the "LFR has to go" shouters in the official forums. Furthermore, the low amount of people who finished the legendary queet is quite surprising. Seeme like the vast majority of the subscribers is playjng on a really casual basis.
  1. Darkness77's Avatar
    oh lol onyxia in that outfit
  1. ZeroWashu's Avatar
    Those percentages look incredibly high.
  1. Thagoblin's Avatar
    I'd really wish that all the noobs complaing about LFR, the queues the other people in it, to level a tank class of their own! Instead of complaining and whining like a little bitch go do something about it... WoW has been made so easy, that there is no need to complain about the drops or LFR difficulty.... Christ, go do something useful instead!

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