MMO-Champion - Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys
Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

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Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

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This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1064 Comments
  1. kassy's Avatar
    Hs beta "special gift", with open beta coming in a couple weeks, gg =p
  1. manswtor's Avatar
    Awesome move :>
  1. Killyox's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Path View Post
    So what is the point they tried to convey then?
    That's something they already explained. Won't bother repeating them. You should analyze it if you don't understand it well enough to comapre rogue's vanish to being able to fly away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirra View Post
    But he is not forcing a singular option upon you. He doesn't want to take your precious ground mounts away and keep only flying. He wants to only keep in the way it is now - possibility to choose between ground and flying mounts. He is giving a choice to everyone, you are forcing a single option to everyone. His way is better, because it keeps the possibility for you to play your way - the ground mount way.
    Well guess what I am not forcing anything on anyone either. I am playing Devil's Advocate whuile myself being indifferent to whatever they decide to do.

    Also you are wrong about one thing. Having option to choose may be bad because some things don't work when they are half done. Things they want to achieve with disabling flying until 6.1 are only going to succeed if everyone cannot fly until then. Half measures don't work in this case.

    They DON'T want you to be able to just fly away from everything. And because of that they don't want anyone to be able to fly 6.1. It's not a matter of choice. Your choice to fly and escape is in contradiction to their idea of you not being able to do it.
  1. Doorsfan's Avatar
    I think the main issue that Blizzard is failing to see here, is recognizing people whom play a lot of alts.

    While sound in reasoning and all - having read all of Bashioks posts in that thread - they're still essentialy saying "Deal with it" to people whom have a lot of alts to level.

    Now, i hate levling. Beyond any messure of this game, i hate it. But that's only because it's extremely gated and repetetive/lack of challenge/lack of anything really.
    You go through once, cool - you seen cool stuff. You go through twice, that stuff gonna get repetetive. Now i have several characters, more then 2.

    So essentialy my hopes are that they bloody fix the whole idea of "Levling should be a slow grind" - cause if not, i ain't levling alts. Simple.
  1. muto's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by thebdc View Post
    So will they also remove stealth from rouges and droods?
    No. That would make too much sense.
  1. Perryn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Oerba Yun Fang View Post
    You realize they're not just delaying it until cap this time, but until 6.1, right? They didn't do that in Mists... seriously, was I playing a different Mists than everyone else? O.o
    Yes I realize this. I have no problem with it.
  1. Killyox's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Doorsfan View Post
    I think the main issue that Blizzard is failing to see here, is recognizing people whom play a lot of alts.

    While sound in reasoning and all - having read all of Bashioks posts in that thread - they're still essentialy saying "Deal with it" to people whom have a lot of alts to level.

    Now, i hate levling. Beyond any messure of this game, i hate it. But that's only because it's extremely gated and repetetive/lack of challenge/lack of anything really.
    You go through once, cool - you seen cool stuff. You go through twice, that stuff gonna get repetetive. Now i have several characters, more then 2.

    So essentialy my hopes are that they bloody fix the whole idea of "Levling should be a slow grind" - cause if not, i ain't levling alts. Simple.
    They didn't say anything about alts. It will probably be like before. You have 1 max level and there is 6.1 and then you can fly even at 90. If it's 6.0 then you level like... everyone else.
  1. Mirra's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dura View Post
    You are delusional if you think there is a choise.

    If you have to go to work. you have the option to
    A take your bike and ride 15miles before gettign to work.
    B Take public transport
    or C Take your car.

    What do you take? if there aint any money involved etc. people want to travel the most efficient way takign the car saves Alot of time and other hassels like in public transport. You will choose C

    Now lets go back to WoW:
    A ground mount having to fight your way to the quest area.
    or B go ziiinng and be there in a second.

    There is no choise if Option B is available you will choose B and you are seriously delusional if you think A is an option compared to B
    Apparently you are the delusional one, if you don't know what choice is. Choice is defined by giving multiple options, not by it's results. It's not my problem some people are weak-minded and can't resist the way of the least resistance. The wan't to ride their ground mounts, the option is there. If they don't use that option, be my guest, but don't force your ways upon the rest of us, who want the choice here.

    And your compatrison is seriously flawed. Do you really think your opinion is superior, so A isn't an option compared to B? For some people it can be and from the comments here, it apparently is. Because you only meassure the options by time commitment. That's really unrealistic... using your first example, going by bike helps people to keep fit and using a car can have troubles with finding a parkspace. All those are real concerns. In WoW, people can use ground mounts to look at the scenery and if they value it so much, then it's definitely a better choice for them to go ground mode. But if they babble here about how it's great to use ground mounts and then still use flying mounts, they are only big hippocrites.
  1. pixelgnomes's Avatar
    I'm excited for this, for everyone else who is, see you at launch!
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by retro View Post
    Good, maybe players will get a better sense of combat in a game based around combat.

    I'm all for World of WARCRAFT, not World of Nah im just gona mount up and fly over/around the mobs because i can CRAFT.
    If they remove flying everyone will just take flight paths. I didn't know flight paths had combat. Thanks for the info.
  1. Kurgath's Avatar
    *Sigh* ... seriously wtf?

    All because of all the whining people, who can't gank people in the world anymore? We all know, that wasn't World PvP ... not really when one is AFK, or killing mobs and you get at him/her when they're at 10% hp ...
  1. Karragon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by phyx View Post
    I'm really happy about that change. By these answers and reasoning of some posters seems like WoW will get rid off a nice chunk of toxic players. People who want to quit over means of travel really shouldn't be heard at all. What does flying bring - faster traveling. What does it take? A whole number of things. So if you think about it just for a tini-tiny minute it doesn't not make any sense at higher levels. This whole thread can be summed up in 'QQ more' because that's what this is. It's like people quitting over removing orange color of copper. Skipping an expansion for this? Be my guest. Blizzard will have less moaners on their hands. I just hope they won't cave in.

    Remember, it's Blizzard who gave you that flying option, it's Blizzard who will take it (temporary). Regarding you want to have an option. You will have it eventually. It's a little sad that people are so self-entitled. Yes you pay for a sub, so do I, but that doesn't mean you are right, or have a right to demand things. 'Blizzard give me a submarine for water exploration or I WILL VOTE WITH MY WALLET'. So sad. But again, at least we're filtering out.
    The difference between this and "removing orange colour of copper" is that colour is just a personal preference, this actually cost me something valuable. Time. I now have to spend longer traveling which means less time at my destination which means less time doing the things I enjoy in the game. I'm sorry if you find my aversion to having less fun as "QQ more"
  1. Pibutzki's Avatar
    To summarize this entire thread: "LET'S ALL AGREE TO DISAGREE!"

    Signed,
    Hugs, Rainbows and Unicorns.
  1. ovamaestro's Avatar
    i think is a good change, flying feels just too safe.
    All you have to do is: disengage combat, cast your flying mount, and that's it, you're safe.
    there should be "dangerous for flying" zones, where you can encourage pvp, or be forced to open your way through enemies fighting.
    I vote for map pvp objectives, just like in bc, where a faction controls a buff in a zone, for example, every 2 hours, both factions should fight to get a "safe flying buff" in a zone.
    Also, not being able to fly encourages exploration. i remember when in vanilla azeroth, went to the south of silithus, or the trolls village in winterspring, It felt rewarding.
  1. nekobaka's Avatar
    LOL, looks like the developers put a bit of a "suck it" to those who threaten to only resubscribe after 6.1.
  1. TeslaHolmes's Avatar
    I love how people are literally causing an uproar over this.

    "WTF MAN I CANT FLY ACROSS THE MAP IN 1 MINUTE ANTYMORE WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF LIKE I WANT TO RUN THROUHG MOBS OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG ITS NOT LIKE I HAVE FLIGHT PATHS WTFFFF WELL FUCK YOU BLIZZ I WILL COME BACK PATCH 6.1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    Please, do. You know what I'm gonna be doing? I'll be level 100. With a flying mount.

    Camping you the second you leave Azeroth.

    Every. Step. You. Take.
  1. Perryn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rogas View Post
    Honestly i don't mind if we have flying during questing/ levelling up. The thing that bug me is the fact blizz thinks that taking away flying will improve the questing experience. Because it really don't solve a thing if wod only consists of a 1000 boring ' fetch me this, kill me that- quests. The only thing that will improve wod questing are awesome epic storylines. Like they did in cataclysm.
    Are you kidding me? Cata leveling was awful, MoP was miles and miles ahead of it.
  1. Army Dreamer's Avatar
    Interesting reasoning. I'm just curious how these reasons will disappear 6.1?
    Flying trivializes combat.
    Does combat change depending on sort of mount I arrive?
    Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will.
    Didn't know I can mount up in combat.
    other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger
    Isn't Dreanor is just about the size of Outland?
    It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create
    While ground mounts allows creating a corridor like gameplay, right?
    to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.
    Player don't want to avoid content, they just want to get to it faster.
    but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle
    What experience? Ganking paradise? Not been able to explore these isles from above? Access to Ordos? Hey, warlocks still have summoning stone! People are going skip the content and trivialize the combat! Are you going to remove this? I hope they won't read this.

    Flying mounts just save us time. You want us to spend more time in game, make content, not artificial obstacles.
  1. Moshrag's Avatar
    No flying worked in vanilla and it will work in WOD (untill first patch) .....people like me loved vanilla cause you could explore every corner while you had no flying mount. AND back those day werent so much world details as it will be in the new xpac....so me will love this.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    "Blizz, please do something about flying mounts! They are ruining the game!"
    "Ok. Ummm how about this: we are delaying flying mounts until the first patch. How does that sound?"
    *quits game*
    We're not a hive mind. I have no clue how you function irl if you can't figure something as simple as that out.

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