Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

Patch 5.4.2 PTR - Build 17585

Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

Battle.Net Desktop App Beta Testers - Hearthstone Beta Keys
If you tested the Battle.Net Desktop App during beta, you will be receiving a Hearthstone beta key in your email shortly! This is the special gift promised to beta testers.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1056 Comments
  1. Self Inflicted Wounds's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    Guess I won't be playing until the patch if ever. Stupid move and an absolute deal breaker for me.
    Thats fine. You can play a game that allows you to skip everything. I don't want people like you in WoW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the moment people hit max they will be sitting in cities using the LFD/LFR to get dungeon queue's instead of "Riding around on the ground" I know I won't leave the city. I refuse to "Ride around" In fact, once I hit max, I will leave Draenor and resume flying around the old zones until 6.1. I don't need dailies or use the player housing. It's great they added it but It's not worthy of my game time and monthly fee to be FORCED to use ground mounts because SOME people don't know how to use self control and not use flight mounts.

    If I wanted to play a game that was ground only, I'd go to Rift, hell they love their player base enough to increase ground travel to 150% AND remove all fall damage. If I want a game with NO mounts, I'll log onto GW2, the fact is the ONLY thing that sets wow out from the others anymore (Other than good raiding content) is the fact you can fly. I don't know of many MMOs (or any at all) that lets you ride a dragon into battle.
    Did you even read the main post? If flying is the only reason you like WoW, I hope you quit =]
  1. TCceen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Thats fine. You can play a game that allows you to skip everything. I don't want people like you in WoW.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Did you even read the main post? If flying is the only reason you like WoW, I hope you quit =]
    What is skipped exactly? When i get on my flight path to the farm... then flight path to timeless isle... or even when mop came out? you grab your dailies and get on the ground and fight? Are you wanting me to travel by ground mount to the farm every day? seriously when I only have maybe 30 minutes to play unless it's my 1 day off? Please explain.

    People are mostly complaining about now the 'gated' mini legendary quest you will have to do in order to attain your flying even after 6.1 through even more quests.
  1. Self Inflicted Wounds's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TCceen View Post
    What is skipped exactly? When i get on my flight path to the farm... then flight path to timeless isle... or even when mop came out? you grab your dailies and get on the ground and fight? Are you wanting me to travel by ground mount to the farm every day? seriously when I only have maybe 30 minutes to play unless it's my 1 day off? Please explain.

    People are mostly complaining about now the 'gated' mini legendary quest you will have to do in order to attain your flying even after 6.1 through even more quests.
    You mean, the mini quest you know nothing about? The one that could be super cool, fun and awesome? Oh okay. Some babies/whiners quit WoW, they won't be missed.

    WHat can be skipped? Literally anything you don't "feel like" dealing with? Mountains, rivers and other landscapes are trivialized. Mobs in general are trivialized. FPs are one thing, but just skipping huge amount of content so you can be really lazy?

    Sorry, every argument FOR flying boils down to "I wanna be lazy!!!"
  1. Garrikk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the moment people hit max they will be sitting in cities using the LFD/LFR to get dungeon queue's instead of "Riding around on the ground" I know I won't leave the city. I refuse to "Ride around" In fact, once I hit max, I will leave Draenor and resume flying around the old zones until 6.1. I don't need dailies or use the player housing. It's great they added it but It's not worthy of my game time and monthly fee to be FORCED to use ground mounts because SOME people don't know how to use self control and not use flight mounts.

    If I wanted to play a game that was ground only, I'd go to Rift, hell they love their player base enough to increase ground travel to 150% AND remove all fall damage. If I want a game with NO mounts, I'll log onto GW2, the fact is the ONLY thing that sets wow out from the others anymore (Other than good raiding content) is the fact you can fly. I don't know of many MMOs (or any at all) that lets you ride a dragon into battle.
    You will still be able to fly dragons into combat in older zones. I'm sorry to hear you are not into garrisons yet, as we haven't even learned all the details about them. As for dailies they will apparently be more story driven and develop over time so it really sucks that you will be missing out on that lore content (and epic dragon rewards). Sitting in a city hardly sounds funner than building a personal army and getting gold and mounts through fun questing (but hey that's just me)

    The fact that you plan on sitting in the cities at the beginning of an expansion saddens me, the point of new content is to experience it. I just never imagined anyone would play WoW simply because of flying mounts.

    As for your remark about self-control and ground mounts. Would you kindly read ALL of my first post and see that the only reason I love this ground mount decision is purely because I will enjoy seeing all the people running around on the ground and will enjoy the immersion that will bring. Not simply because I cannot harness the ability to ride a ground mount at the moment.

    3/4 months of ground mounts //// sounds like a first world problem.
  1. mmoc1e4c5b7903's Avatar
    WHat can be skipped? Literally anything you don't "feel like" dealing with? Mountains, rivers and other landscapes are trivialized. Mobs in general are trivialized. FPs are one thing, but just skipping huge amount of content so you can be really lazy?
    Delete then from game Stealth , Vanish , Shadowmeld, Feign Death , Camouflage , Invisibility , Blink ... they trivialize and help skiping content.


    Because is sooooooo hard for developers that instead of doing a QUEST "Kill boss X " to do one "Kill boss X and 12 of his minions". So no one would have reasons to skip directly to the named boss.
  1. Self Inflicted Wounds's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Delete then from game Stealth , Vanish , Shadowmeld, Feign Death , Camouflage , Invisibility , Blink ... they trivialize and help skiping content.


    Because is sooooooo hard for developers that instead of doing a QUEST "Kill boss X " to do one "Kill boss X and 12 of his minions". So no one would have reasons to skip directly to the named boss.
    Lol of course you go way over the top with it.

    Because is sooooooo hard for players to use ground mounts. (Hint: It isn't)
  1. Cronnix's Avatar
    While I don't mind running around (more people for me to gank, yay), I don't understand their reasoning. Earning flying? I've been doing that every damned expansion, it is illogical that your mount suddenly forgets how to fly. While we are at it, why not take away half of your skills and make you re-learn them too? Yay for new skills!

    If you want people to spend more time experiencing the content you designed, but they skip it with flying mounts then YOU designed the content wrong. Disabling flying feels like a bandiad solution to a much deeper issue, forcing players to experience the content they otherwise want to skip.
  1. Ealyssa's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Sorry, every argument FOR flying boils down to "I wanna be lazy!!!"
    Yeah and ? If it's what WE LIKE ? You like your game as hard as it can be nice to you use your ground mount. We don't...

    You can allready do what you want and still will be able to play so. Why people who don't like YOUR way should be forced to follow YOUR path ?

    Then why not also take away all the epic gear ? Becaue hey, if one thing trivialize leveling it's clearly being in full HC gear roflstomping every single mob. But don't cry, you will be able to do a super epic quest chain @100 to unlock your ability to wear again epic loot and that will be SO AMAZING TO EXPERIENCE !!!

    Taking away and giving back is the most retarded thing you can imagine in any MMOish environment.
  1. mmoc1e4c5b7903's Avatar
    The fact that you plan on sitting in the cities at the beginning of an expansion saddens me, the point of new content is to experience it. I just never imagined anyone would play WoW simply because of flying mounts.
    When the expansion will come , just imagine how "immersed" in the game we will be those of us who already frozen the acounts .
    Definitely the no flying thing helped us to "immerse" in the game .

    In another game.
  1. Dracbane's Avatar
    Man.....so much QQing about not getting flying first thing at level 100.....I much rather have this approach to it feeling epic again than just sinking 5,000g into a new flying skill.....
    This is pretty much the same model they have always used...no flying mounts while leveling. Just because they are moving flying as a whole back to 6.1 instead of just allowing max level to buy it is really not going to be that big of a deal or that big of a difference... I mean....Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle are both max level content without flying mounts and that didnt kill anyone....personally both were far more enjoyable without flying mounts. Timeless Isle actually feels somewhat dangerous because you cant just fly around everything and most of the mobs can do a good deal of damage even at a high ilvl, esp when you get up on the hills. I don't think I would like Timeless Isle anywhere close to what I do now if everyone were allowed to fly around on it.
  1. Self Inflicted Wounds's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Yeah and ? If it's what WE LIKE ? You like your game as hard as it can be nice to you use your ground mount. We don't...

    You can allready do what you want and still will be able to play so. Why people who don't like YOUR way should be forced to follow YOUR path ?

    Then why not also take away all the epic gear ? Becaue hey, if one thing trivialize leveling it's clearly being in full HC gear roflstomping every single mob. But don't cry, you will be able to do a super epic quest chain @100 to unlock your ability to wear again epic loot and that will be SO AMAZING TO EXPERIENCE !!!

    Taking away and giving back is the most retarded thing you can imagine in any MMOish environment.
    Its not as simple as "hey I just want people that love flying to suffer!" its a complex problem with convenience and flying is a huge part of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    When the expansion will come , just imagine how "immersed" in the game we will be those of us who already frozen the acounts .
    Definitely the no flying thing helped us to "immerse" in the game .

    In another game.
    Thats fine, have fun.
  1. Kededia's Avatar
    Just remove flying overall. It kills the whole wow expierence.
  1. MisterMxyzptlk's Avatar
    To the Hate No Flight Till Later Club. I wrote you a song!

    (Sing to Fly me to the moon)

    Take me to Dreanor
    Let me play among the orcs
    Let me see what it is like
    on Dreanor with no flight

    In other words, hold on man
    In other words, wait, its okay you

    Find out what its like
    Before you whine forever more
    That is all I long for
    All I ask of you

    In other words, wait for 6.1
    In other words, it will just a few

    Fill your time with fun
    Let you see what its like
    You are all jumping the gun
    All I say is wait

    In other words, please be true
    In other words
    In other words, Don't be a noob!
  1. TCceen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kededia View Post
    Just remove flying overall. It kills the whole wow expierence.
    awe sweetie, honey? it's a choice to train it. If it ruins the game for you don't train it See how that works!! I don't like first aid on my alts so I don't even train it! <3 <3 <3
  1. Ruak's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TCceen View Post
    awe sweetie, honey? it's a choice to train it. If it ruins the game for you don't train it See how that works!! I don't like first aid on my alts so I don't even train it! <3 <3 <3
    One could only wish you'd figure out the difference between one person not flying and the whole world not flying. From a gameplay experience point of view. Brains is hard, yo...
  1. Dervrak's Avatar
    I don't have a problem waiting till level 100, or paying gold for the skill to obtain flying, or even waiting to patch 6.1 for that matter. But making me jump through a bunch of hoops in the guise of some boring "epic" quest just to re-acquire a skill I've had since BC is just flat out stupid. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE epic quest lines, but I expect the reward to be equally epic, and just reactivating some old skill doesn't fit that bill.
  1. TCceen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    You mean, the mini quest you know nothing about? The one that could be super cool, fun and awesome? Oh okay. Some babies/whiners quit WoW, they won't be missed.

    WHat can be skipped? Literally anything you don't "feel like" dealing with? Mountains, rivers and other landscapes are trivialized. Mobs in general are trivialized. FPs are one thing, but just skipping huge amount of content so you can be really lazy?

    Sorry, every argument FOR flying boils down to "I wanna be lazy!!!"
    I know about the quest they mention that is my only gripe, i don't mind if they keep us grounded until 6.1 but it better attune all your toons, etc. The scenery really? I get maybe 20 minutes to play on most days unless its my 1 day off. I don't want to sit and admire mountain trails from the ground ... then log off.

    And honestly? EVERY single expansion the moment I hit max level... delete ALL my quests, and pick up the essential either dailies for rep or what i need that will give gear leading into heroics. then i don't touch a SINGLE quest until new factions or patch hubs come out for new rep. And sweetie? all of those are required to quest on the ground anyway!!! i can't just fall on a mob and it dies!

    I don't mind them keeping flight out til 6.1 because they said it will be like timeless, things to actually dooooo when you are max level.. *GASP* That will be a first! that i have an option to NOT delete my quest log and get by just fine! I'll believe it when i see it!!

    And like ANY game content it's ALL optional. I don't like first aid, I don't train it!! I don't do pokemon battles! unless i'm extreeeeemely bored. I don't like achaelogy! so I only did it on 1 character! So sweetie, honey, darling? You don't ever have to train flight on your characters either! and you can travel ever road and mountain and river AND you can fight them nasty critters all the way !!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    One could only wish you'd figure out the difference between one person not flying and the whole world not flying. From a gameplay experience point of view. Brains is hard, yo...
    But sweetie dear, I will be flying, I'm flying right now!! with all these mounts I paid 100's of $$ for... and just because you want to see me trotting along the road on a little horsey getting hit by ever mob and dismounted *since i'm cloth* having to fight my way to my destination like a damsel in distress every time you pass me be, since most players train others and watch them die (timeless isle is proof) doesn't mean I will be. I'll enjoy my flight paths to the content I have time for, then get my flight when I can.

    Choices are good, if you hate flight so much don't train it. Simple.
  1. Asmekiel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Lol of course you go way over the top with it.

    Because is sooooooo hard for players to use ground mounts. (Hint: It isn't)
    Apparently it is for those who don't want to use a flying mount.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    One could only wish you'd figure out the difference between one person not flying and the whole world not flying. From a gameplay experience point of view. Brains is hard, yo...
    One person? Last I checked it's pretty much 50-50 on these forums, you're definitely not alone on the ground.
  1. jaderen91's Avatar
    You guys: "Flying mounts are the worst thing to put into WoW. Get rid of it!"

    Blizzard: "There will be no flying until WoD 6.1."

    You guys: "I'M SICK OF THIS SHIT! I WANT TO FLY IN DRAENOR!"

    Please explain the logic here.
  1. Ichifails's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jaderen91 View Post
    You guys: "Flying mounts are the worst thing to put into WoW. Get rid of it!"

    Blizzard: "There will be no flying until WoD 6.1."

    You guys: "I'M SUCK OF THIS SHIT! I WANT TO FLY IN DRAENOR!"

    Please explain the logic here.
    Multiple people = multiple opinions.
    And flying is hurting the game more than people even want to admit. Especially at the start of the expansion. You can't say "DON'T FLY YOURSELF BLA BLA" because that argument doesn't work. If I won't fly, another guy will negating my "NO FLY policy".

    Flying would be good if it was an exclusive thing. I could afford 310% flying on a new realm the day I hit 90 and that's bullshit. Make flying 200-300k gold and epic flying 800-1mil and I'd be fine with it being in game.

    People are just too entitled.

Site Navigation