MMO-Champion - Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys
Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

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Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

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This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1064 Comments
  1. MisterMxyzptlk's Avatar
    To the Hate No Flight Till Later Club. I wrote you a song!

    (Sing to Fly me to the moon)

    Take me to Dreanor
    Let me play among the orcs
    Let me see what it is like
    on Dreanor with no flight

    In other words, hold on man
    In other words, wait, its okay you

    Find out what its like
    Before you whine forever more
    That is all I long for
    All I ask of you

    In other words, wait for 6.1
    In other words, it will just a few

    Fill your time with fun
    Let you see what its like
    You are all jumping the gun
    All I say is wait

    In other words, please be true
    In other words
    In other words, Don't be a noob!
  1. TCceen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kededia View Post
    Just remove flying overall. It kills the whole wow expierence.
    awe sweetie, honey? it's a choice to train it. If it ruins the game for you don't train it See how that works!! I don't like first aid on my alts so I don't even train it! <3 <3 <3
  1. Ruak's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TCceen View Post
    awe sweetie, honey? it's a choice to train it. If it ruins the game for you don't train it See how that works!! I don't like first aid on my alts so I don't even train it! <3 <3 <3
    One could only wish you'd figure out the difference between one person not flying and the whole world not flying. From a gameplay experience point of view. Brains is hard, yo...
  1. Dervrak's Avatar
    I don't have a problem waiting till level 100, or paying gold for the skill to obtain flying, or even waiting to patch 6.1 for that matter. But making me jump through a bunch of hoops in the guise of some boring "epic" quest just to re-acquire a skill I've had since BC is just flat out stupid. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE epic quest lines, but I expect the reward to be equally epic, and just reactivating some old skill doesn't fit that bill.
  1. TCceen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    You mean, the mini quest you know nothing about? The one that could be super cool, fun and awesome? Oh okay. Some babies/whiners quit WoW, they won't be missed.

    WHat can be skipped? Literally anything you don't "feel like" dealing with? Mountains, rivers and other landscapes are trivialized. Mobs in general are trivialized. FPs are one thing, but just skipping huge amount of content so you can be really lazy?

    Sorry, every argument FOR flying boils down to "I wanna be lazy!!!"
    I know about the quest they mention that is my only gripe, i don't mind if they keep us grounded until 6.1 but it better attune all your toons, etc. The scenery really? I get maybe 20 minutes to play on most days unless its my 1 day off. I don't want to sit and admire mountain trails from the ground ... then log off.

    And honestly? EVERY single expansion the moment I hit max level... delete ALL my quests, and pick up the essential either dailies for rep or what i need that will give gear leading into heroics. then i don't touch a SINGLE quest until new factions or patch hubs come out for new rep. And sweetie? all of those are required to quest on the ground anyway!!! i can't just fall on a mob and it dies!

    I don't mind them keeping flight out til 6.1 because they said it will be like timeless, things to actually dooooo when you are max level.. *GASP* That will be a first! that i have an option to NOT delete my quest log and get by just fine! I'll believe it when i see it!!

    And like ANY game content it's ALL optional. I don't like first aid, I don't train it!! I don't do pokemon battles! unless i'm extreeeeemely bored. I don't like achaelogy! so I only did it on 1 character! So sweetie, honey, darling? You don't ever have to train flight on your characters either! and you can travel ever road and mountain and river AND you can fight them nasty critters all the way !!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    One could only wish you'd figure out the difference between one person not flying and the whole world not flying. From a gameplay experience point of view. Brains is hard, yo...
    But sweetie dear, I will be flying, I'm flying right now!! with all these mounts I paid 100's of $$ for... and just because you want to see me trotting along the road on a little horsey getting hit by ever mob and dismounted *since i'm cloth* having to fight my way to my destination like a damsel in distress every time you pass me be, since most players train others and watch them die (timeless isle is proof) doesn't mean I will be. I'll enjoy my flight paths to the content I have time for, then get my flight when I can.

    Choices are good, if you hate flight so much don't train it. Simple.
  1. Asmekiel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Lol of course you go way over the top with it.

    Because is sooooooo hard for players to use ground mounts. (Hint: It isn't)
    Apparently it is for those who don't want to use a flying mount.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    One could only wish you'd figure out the difference between one person not flying and the whole world not flying. From a gameplay experience point of view. Brains is hard, yo...
    One person? Last I checked it's pretty much 50-50 on these forums, you're definitely not alone on the ground.
  1. jaderen91's Avatar
    You guys: "Flying mounts are the worst thing to put into WoW. Get rid of it!"

    Blizzard: "There will be no flying until WoD 6.1."

    You guys: "I'M SICK OF THIS SHIT! I WANT TO FLY IN DRAENOR!"

    Please explain the logic here.
  1. Ichifails's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jaderen91 View Post
    You guys: "Flying mounts are the worst thing to put into WoW. Get rid of it!"

    Blizzard: "There will be no flying until WoD 6.1."

    You guys: "I'M SUCK OF THIS SHIT! I WANT TO FLY IN DRAENOR!"

    Please explain the logic here.
    Multiple people = multiple opinions.
    And flying is hurting the game more than people even want to admit. Especially at the start of the expansion. You can't say "DON'T FLY YOURSELF BLA BLA" because that argument doesn't work. If I won't fly, another guy will negating my "NO FLY policy".

    Flying would be good if it was an exclusive thing. I could afford 310% flying on a new realm the day I hit 90 and that's bullshit. Make flying 200-300k gold and epic flying 800-1mil and I'd be fine with it being in game.

    People are just too entitled.
  1. Asmekiel's Avatar
    That joke was funny 10 years ago...


    We've talked about flightpaths and travelling a few times now. Being able to fly in Pandaria never stopped me from walking on the ground with either a ground or flying mount. Neither did it stop me from using flightpaths. I use flightpaths all the time actually. It allows me to go AFK and reach my destination while having the game do all the travelling for me.
    What bothers me here most is the removal of choice.
  1. RumlyD's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Pearl View Post
    What bothers me here most is the removal of choice.
    What bothers those of us who are not fans of flying is the removal of other players from the ground, once flying is turned back on.

    Telling people to go ride around on the ground if they prefer it misses that point.
  1. Abstieg's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by RumlyD View Post
    What bothers those of us who are not fans of flying is the removal of other players from the ground, once flying is turned back on.

    Telling people to go ride around on the ground if they prefer it misses that point.
    I have yet to see anyone interact meaningfully with people in Pandaria because they were forced to ride on the ground.
  1. yessir's Avatar
    I'd lost hope it was possible for Blizzard to make a choice I actually agreed with.

    Flying mounts, while seemingly convenient and briefly enjoyable, destroyed the epic feeling of the world and wider game. Sometimes people don't know what's good for them. Above all, this game should feel epic. It hasn't for quite some time because of decisions, let me remind you, taken by Blizzard catering towards an audience demanding convenience. It's so so easy to entice temporary subscribers with gimmicks that dilute gameplay, much harder to win back the players you alienated in the process.
  1. DragonsBeard's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Silly reason? They're blocking you from using something you have already spent gold, time, and maybe even money on.
    Your cloud serpents will be useless, as will your phoenix mounts.

    It isnt for one patch. It is for the entire expansion, unless you want to go and fly in outdated areas. Every new patch will be no-fly until the next patch.

    We must not have liked the game? Nah kid, you seem to like it a bit too much to the point where your nose is so far up Alex Afriasabi's ass (because lets face it, it is most likely that cunt's idea) that you cannot see reason anymore. Everyone else doesnt like the fact that they lose something they have aleady earned.

    They want to make getting flying rewarding again? You cant. At this point, all you do is piss people off and then give them back their property. They're basically being assholes, you know, the ones you see on schoolyards, dangling someone's property above their head while the filthy peasant customers try to jump and grab their property.

    Its a good thing that this will never ever make it live.
    Incorrect. I can see reason just fine. I have not been subbed to World of Warcraft for over a month and a half. Why? Because I have other games I want to play. Unless you can show me the exact line in their post that says other wise, its only till patch 6.1 that you can't fly and once you have completed the quest chain you have flying for the rest of the expansion.

    Plus, I didn't say people shouldn't be pissed off about it. I said its silly to refuse to play the game over it. Doing this will let them make more defined quests, as well as better zones. Flying makes it easy to just skip whole area's and story's that Blizzard as worked hard on developing. So why shouldn't they request people to see that content the way it was meant to be see for at least one patch? It's not like they are just removing Flying Mounts from the game. They are simply telling you to wait a bit for it so you actually see what they worded so hard on doing.

    I hate the fact I can't fly the moment I hit level cap, but I'm not gonna quit the game over it. I also like the idea of them doing a quest line for it this time rather then just saying "here, give me 4k gold and you can fly in Draenor!" So, i stand by what i said. It's silly, and I'm sure there are better reasons to quit or not play the game for a patch then that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    It wasn't the only reason I play but restricting it that much is a deal breaker because I LOVE flying. With the latest post I doubt I'll be picking up this expac at all.
    I still think that's silly. I love flying to, but it's not something to quit over because you have to wait a little while before you can fly in the new zones. It's not like they are removing flying mounts. They are just telling people to wait for it because of how powerful being able to fly is. It make the game less meaningful when you can just skip past everything.
  1. Lumocolor's Avatar
    It's too bad that they came to the realization that spamming daily quests as your main source of non raiding content started to suck 3+ years ago.
  1. bigmac's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kededia View Post
    Just remove flying overall. It kills the whole wow expierence.
    NO!!!

    I hate this. Just let us be able to buy Draenor flying at 100. Grrr....
  1. Deuse's Avatar
    This is like, not even a big deal.

    We couldn't fly on the Thunder or Timeless isle and it was fine.
  1. anonidea's Avatar
    All I can say is they better have a good reason for the barrier. I am ok with not being able to fly, but it better have a good name. The last thing I want is to have to pay for "Draenor Flying." I hope it will be called "Space Flight" or "Savage Flight."
  1. Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TCceen View Post
    I know about the quest they mention that is my only gripe, i don't mind if they keep us grounded until 6.1 but it better attune all your toons, etc. The scenery really? I get maybe 20 minutes to play on most days unless its my 1 day off. I don't want to sit and admire mountain trails from the ground ... then log off.

    And honestly? EVERY single expansion the moment I hit max level... delete ALL my quests, and pick up the essential either dailies for rep or what i need that will give gear leading into heroics. then i don't touch a SINGLE quest until new factions or patch hubs come out for new rep. And sweetie? all of those are required to quest on the ground anyway!!! i can't just fall on a mob and it dies!

    I don't mind them keeping flight out til 6.1 because they said it will be like timeless, things to actually dooooo when you are max level.. *GASP* That will be a first! that i have an option to NOT delete my quest log and get by just fine! I'll believe it when i see it!!

    And like ANY game content it's ALL optional. I don't like first aid, I don't train it!! I don't do pokemon battles! unless i'm extreeeeemely bored. I don't like achaelogy! so I only did it on 1 character! So sweetie, honey, darling? You don't ever have to train flight on your characters either! and you can travel ever road and mountain and river AND you can fight them nasty critters all the way !!

    - - - Updated - - -



    But sweetie dear, I will be flying, I'm flying right now!! with all these mounts I paid 100's of $$ for... and just because you want to see me trotting along the road on a little horsey getting hit by ever mob and dismounted *since i'm cloth* having to fight my way to my destination like a damsel in distress every time you pass me be, since most players train others and watch them die (timeless isle is proof) doesn't mean I will be. I'll enjoy my flight paths to the content I have time for, then get my flight when I can.

    Choices are good, if you hate flight so much don't train it. Simple.
    1) I hope it doesn't attune all your toons. Bad choice.
    2) You still don't know shit about the questline.
    3) 20 Minutes is barely enough time to do anything, anyways. Flying won;t change this.
    4) Most of your post is ranting, sweetie.
    5) You don't have to delete your quest log.
    6) Sweetie, honey, darling, I know this is complex, but a few people not flying won't change anything about the game. There are many consequences to flying, and many of them are bad. Why not just give players to have the option to 1 shot bosses, its good to have choice and options, right?
    7) Paying money for mounts is your option, but it doesn't entitle you to anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Pearl View Post
    That joke was funny 10 years ago...


    We've talked about flightpaths and travelling a few times now. Being able to fly in Pandaria never stopped me from walking on the ground with either a ground or flying mount. Neither did it stop me from using flightpaths. I use flightpaths all the time actually. It allows me to go AFK and reach my destination while having the game do all the travelling for me.
    What bothers me here most is the removal of choice.
    There are plenty of things you can't choose to do. Choice =/= always good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Abstieg View Post
    I have yet to see anyone interact meaningfully with people in Pandaria because they were forced to ride on the ground.
    But, I have.
  1. ponyzel's Avatar
    Everytime when blizzard says something like: "remember when it was in BC, wotlk or cata........." I know there will be something go wrong.
    That one time, at the end of wotlk, when blizzard said they want to bring back the epicness when ppl get hold of new purples, that didn't end well, did it? That came the first sub drop in the whole WOW history.
    Now they want to bring back the feeling when you first got your flying mount? Please blizzard, get over it, lets move forward, we had the flying mounts for YEARS!!
    Lets go forward, not backward please.

    Another note: if I had a few lvl85 alts now, that means I will have to level them to lvl100 without any flying, that is 15 levels on the ground.
    Looks like Blizzard is really trying to kill alts.
  1. JMWolf's Avatar
    I don't understand I have had the Battle.Net Beta Client installed and I have not received a Hearthstone beta key at all!?!?

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