MMO-Champion - Gear Changes in Warlords of Draenor
Gear Changes in Warlords of Draenor
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Now that BlizzCon is over and Warlords of Draenor has been unveiled, we’ve been getting some additional questions about the gear changes currently planned for the expansion. To help shed some more light on what you can expect, we thought we’d take a bit of time to clarify a few things.

Keep in mind that as with anything still in development, the information we share now will likely change as we progress, but this should help give you a good understanding of our goals and thinking.


Armor Pieces: Head, Shoulders, Chest, Legs, Gloves, Belt, Boots, and Bracers

Primary Stats

One of our main intents for primary stats is to make sure that higher Item Level (ilvl) pieces from new content are almost always superior to items from older content. Further, the changes we’re making to primary stats will help make pieces more universal, so groups will find gear drops more useful more often. This means you’ll be disenchanting less Intellect plate (only usable by Paladins today) or Agility mail (only usable by Hunters and Enhancement Shamans today). As we discussed at BlizzCon, we’re accomplishing this by making it so primary stats for a given piece of gear will change based on your current spec, though it’s likely that only new gear added in Warlords will work like this, as it might be impossible to implement this for all existing gear. Here are some additional points to know regarding the changes to primary stats:

  • Armor pieces will always have some amount of Stamina and Armor value.
  • Armor pieces always have Strength, Intellect, or Agility as a primary stat. Plate has either Strength or Intellect. Mail and Leather have either Agility or Intellect. Cloth has Intellect.
  • In the cases of Plate, Mail, and Leather, the primary stat will change depending on your current spec. Specifically, casters (including healers) will get Intellect, and melee or tank specs will get Strength or Agility.

Secondary Stats

Our intent for secondary stats is to differentiate pieces that occupy the same slot, allow for player customization, and to further differentiate specs within a class. Here are a few important points regarding the changes that are currently planned for secondary stats:
  • Secondary stats don’t change based on spec on armor pieces (or any piece).
  • Secondary stats on armor pieces can still include Haste, Crit, and/or Mastery.
  • Secondary stats on armor pieces will no longer include Hit, Expertise, Dodge, or Parry. These are being retired in Warlords, and will likely be removed even from existing gear.
  • Secondary stats on armor pieces will also no longer include Spirit, nor will they include Bonus Armor, which are reserved exclusively for non-armor pieces (which are explained below).
  • In addition, secondary stats on armor pieces may include several new stats we are exploring such as Readiness, Amplify, and Multi-strike. Technical Game Designer Chadd “Celestalon” Nervig has been sharing more details about these on his Twitter account.

Additional Properties

Armor pieces may have three other properties at random. First, items may be higher Item Level than normal. For sake of this discussion, we’ll call these items Warforged for now.

Second, items may have gem sockets. Unlike gem sockets today, gem sockets in Warlords of Draenor will be rarer but more powerful. There will be no socket bonuses, but we are strongly considering requiring the right color gem for the socket. All gems will grant secondary stats, including Spirit and Bonus Armor (see below).

Finally, items may have tertiary stats. These include things like a bonus to Movement Speed, Sturdiness, Life Steal, Avoidance (less AoE damage), and Cleave. Because of the rarity of tertiary starts, stacking them to produce (for example) a Movement Speed set will take enormous effort.

The design intent of these additional qualities on items is to make itemization more exciting and to give it more longevity. Rather than waiting weeks to get a breastplate, you might get one pretty quickly—but to get a true “best-in-slot” item will take much more effort and a bit of luck. Here are a few more points to consider for these properties:

  • We haven’t decided on exact numbers yet, but for the current discussion, assume something like a 10% chance for an item to have an additional property. It’s possible for one item to have all three of these properties, but the chance of that is very small.
  • The properties are determined at the time an item is looted (and possibly even includes crafted gear). For example, if an ogre boss drops two copies of the Bracers of Crithto, one might be a normal version, while another might have a tertiary stat.

Being Warforged, having a socket, or having a tertiary stat do not count against the stat budget of the item—they are strictly bonuses. The item will not have reduced primary or secondary stats in order to have these additional properties.

Set Bonuses

Similar to primary stats, set bonuses will also change depending on your current spec. This means a Paladin may only need one tier set rather than one for Holy and one for Retribution. It also means that set bonuses can be more tailored towards a spec. For instance, Marksman Hunter set bonuses can have different bonuses or different numbers than a Survival Hunter set. Like today, not every helmet, chest piece, or other piece of armor that drops will be part of a tier set.

Non-Armor Pieces: Weapons, Rings, Cloak, Necklace, and Trinkets

Primary Stats

In general, most of these pieces will not have Strength, Agility, or Intellect. Instead, they may have Attack Power or Spell Power to make sure they are more universal. However, our current thought it to keep primary stats on weapons so that they continue to feel iconic and special. Many of the items will have Stamina as well.

Secondary Stats

The information about secondary stats on armor above also applies here. In addition, Spirit and Bonus Armor can appear on these items. Spirit is only useful for healers. Bonus Armor is generally only useful for tanks. A Spell Power piece without Spirit may be attractive to healers or may be attractive to DPS casters instead.

The intent of including Spirit and Bonus Armor on these pieces is to make sure some items are still valuable only to healer and tank specs, helping to make sure they don’t have too much competition for gear against the more numerous DPS players in a given group. These are also stats we consider interesting, because how much of each of these stats a tank or healer might want is more subjective. For example, one tank in a group might prefer more Bonus Armor while another might prefer more Haste.

In the case of Spirit, imagine that stacking Spirit on every non-armor slot will give you more mana regeneration than you would reasonably need. That is to say, you likely won’t need Spirit on every single spot in order to function as a healer.

In the case of Bonus Armor, this stat fills the niche that Dodge and Parry fill today. We like tanks avoiding attacks as a mechanic, but it hasn’t proven to be a particularly interesting gearing strategy. However, we still want a dedicated damage-mitigation stat, and Bonus Armor will be it.

Additional Qualities

These items will also have a chance to have one of the additional qualities discussed above (Warforged, gems, and tertiary stats), and the information related to these qualities on armor still applies here.

Examples

A Holy Paladin has a raid tier set from the Blackrock Foundry. If she switches to her Retribution spec, the tier set is still functional, as the primary stats and set bonuses change. However, if she prefers Haste for her Retribution spec and Crit in her Holy spec (and is someone who enjoys the min-max game), then a single set of armor may not be optimal.

For her healing set, let’s assume this player also has one ring with Spirit, a shield with Spirit, and a trinket that procs on heals. The trinket is almost useless in her Retribution set. The shield is also useless, since Retribution is designed to wield a two-handed weapon. The ring will be sub-optimal because Spirit is useless to a Retribution Paladin, but if it has another valuable stat (e.g. Haste), it may still be worth using—again depending on how min-max-focused the player is.

A more casual player would probably be fine just using the trinket anyway and using a lower Item Level two-handed mace when she plays Retribution. A more min-max player would probably want separate rings, cloaks, trinkets, neck pieces, and weapons to use in the different specs. A very min-max player—such as someone competing in world-first Mythic raid progression—might even want different heads, shoulders, chests, and so on depending on the mix of secondary stats. This player might even swap out gems between the two specs.

This may seem like a lot to take in now, but we’ll continue to watch feedback and answer any additional questions where we can. And again, keep in mind that as with anything still in development, this information or some of the details will likely change as we progress.

As always, we welcome your constructive feedback, and we look forward to reading what you think.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Gear Changes in Warlords of Draenor started by chaud View original post
Comments 398 Comments
  1. Ilfayt's Avatar
    Really, I think it's going to come down to how drastic stat weights end up being for most specs. If we've got these polar opposites like we have today for some classes, then this could be a far worse system. Luckily, it looks like that may not be the case, because all 4 of the new stats have synergy with just about everyone(if they're like they are on the SoO trinkets, Amplify will boost the 3 core, Readiness will all around make everyone's rotations smoother and quicker, and Multistrike has the potential to boost procs/resource gen for almost all specs. Bonus Armor, we'll have to see, it depends ont he amount.)
  1. iperson's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Orkwuzhere View Post
    "Hey guys, let's get rid of stats like Hit for...more bullshit stats players will still have to min-max and grind. Oh yea, we're going to make it more mandatory to have the 'right gems' even if our itemization is still a joke."

    Why bother getting rid of stuff like Hit if you STILL have to min-max with gems and the new, dumber stats like Cleave and Life Steal (Life Steal!? Really!?)!? Blizzard's not making it easier; they made it even more annoying.

    Maybe with 7.0, Blizzard will admit Mastery is one of the biggest pain in the ass stats that should have been removed with Hit, Expertise, and Parry for WoD. Screw Mastery.
    Hmm. Stats they're getting rid of you stack until you have x amount and then it does nothing and you needed reforging to juggle a magic number using addons, websites, or spreadsheets just to make the gear an upgrade at all. Stats they're adding don't count against the budget and give your character a little more power as a bonus. Apparently some people need the game dumbed down...
  1. Sinnewah's Avatar
    So how do they (devs) think this will effect loot distribution? Jimmy and Johnny both got a piece of gear last week, but Jimmy claims that this crit piece will give him 100 more dps then Johnny and it is his BiS. However, we still have Jack, James and Justin who don't really go for crit, but are lacking that item level.....
    This. I can see raiders holding out and not taking gear because they don't want to give up their chance at the correct stats, given once they take a piece of gear they have to wait for everyone else to get the same ilvl piece before they can get another shot at it. I also think about the poor loot masters who have to sift through this mess...two pieces dropped that are the same, piece A has a gem slot, and piece B doesn't. Piece B has optimal stats, Piece A has less-than-optimal stats. Five people ask for them both, since they can both be used in the slot, but they want one of the items more than the other, and it will vary by raider. Ugly.
  1. nightfalls's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by iperson View Post
    Every example you provided depends on the amount of stat provided. Do you know how much of the tertiary stat will be on an item? Or are you just assuming everyone at blizz is bad at math and will load so much of the tertiary stats on items that it will break the game?
    None of it depends on stat provided unless it turns a "flavor" into "non-flavor." Cleave is always extra damage, so it's never "just flavor" (its relative value can be disputed but we know these are "bonus" stats). Run speed is arguably not flavor for the reason I gave. Me claiming that AoE damage reduction and Life Steal are not important (and "just flavor") is actually giving both stats and the balancing team a bit of credit.

    "Game breaking" is one thing. But you did not use that term. You used the term "just flavor." Which the stats clearly are not.
  1. Thornrayn's Avatar
    See this is where the reforge could actually come in handy. Lets say you 1k gold (just tossing a number out) to switch 1 secondary stat to another, now this would not work for ILvl, sockets or tertiary stats. You could in essence create awesome and in some cases experimental gear combos with out going completely insane waiting for the right stat roll.
  1. Constraint's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    I have a feeling that, instead of simplifying the system, it is becoming much more complicated...
    How is it becoming more complicated? It either drops with additional stats/ilvl/socket or it doesn't. If that's what you call "much more complicated".. I'd hate for you to see something that was actually more complicated, put it that way.

    Oh and fellow raid leaders/officers - don't be dense. There aren't too many options. Either you enforce people taking upgrades if they're upgrades, or you allow them to "save up" for the good pieces. It's pretty simple.



    Oh, and Thornrayne I strongly disagree. I think it'll be great having interesting loot drop throughout a tier, even when you have all the "items" you already want - still being able to find upgrades is always a good thing. Carrot on the stick, and all that jazz.
  1. nightfalls's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    I strongly disagree. I think it'll be great having interesting loot drop throughout a tier, even when you have all the "items" you already want - still being able to find upgrades is always a good thing. Carrot on the stick, and all that jazz.
    This is where my "RNG is good but not too much RNG" comes in. Carrot on the stick is nice until you realize that you have a carrot on a stick.
  1. Klingers's Avatar
    What is multi-strike? I'm thinking some kind of %-chance for an instant swing-timer reset, but I could be wrong.
  1. Orkwuzhere's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnewah View Post
    This. I can see raiders holding out and not taking gear because they don't want to give up their chance at the correct stats, given once they take a piece of gear they have to wait for everyone else to get the same ilvl piece before they can get another shot at it. I also think about the poor loot masters who have to sift through this mess...two pieces dropped that are the same, piece A has a gem slot, and piece B doesn't. Piece B has optimal stats, Piece A has less-than-optimal stats. Five people ask for them both, since they can both be used in the slot, but they want one of the items more than the other, and it will vary by raider. Ugly.
    You're still going to see spreadsheets when Mr Robot or other gear checkers will expect you to have these 3rd stats min-maxed with your main stats to be an efficient raider. For example, if Life Steal is going to be good for tanks, Mr Robot and gear checkers will tell you to get it or buzz off. WoD is not making stats easier no matter how you see it. Depending on your class and Blizzard's itemization, this can be absolutely dreadful (Blizzard's itemization has been pretty bad).
  1. nightfalls's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    What is multi-strike? I'm thinking some kind of %-chance for an instant swing-timer reset, but I could be wrong.
    Celestalon explained it pretty well on twitter.
  1. iperson's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    None of it depends on stat provided unless it turns a "flavor" into "non-flavor." Cleave is always extra damage, so it's never "just flavor" (its relative value can be disputed but we know these are "bonus" stats). Run speed is arguably not flavor for the reason I gave. Me claiming that AoE damage reduction and Life Steal are not important (and "just flavor") is actually giving both stats and the balancing team a bit of credit.

    "Game breaking" is one thing. But you did not use that term. You used the term "just flavor." Which the stats clearly are not.
    If it's not game breaking then what are we talking about? Is the sky falling or not? If it is, give us some numbers to backup your claim. They've said the game isn't balanced around you having every piece perfectly itemized. They've even said the pieces will be rare enough that you shouldn't expect to ever put together a full set.


    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Cleave is always extra damage...
    Oh, and since we're clearly playing a game of semantics I'd love to see how cleave is extra damage on a single target encounter.
  1. Ilfayt's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Orkwuzhere View Post
    "Hey guys, let's get rid of stats like Hit for...more bullshit stats players will still have to min-max and grind. Oh yea, we're going to make it more mandatory to have the 'right gems' even if our itemization is still a joke."

    Why bother getting rid of stuff like Hit if you STILL have to min-max with gems and the new, dumber stats like Cleave and Life Steal (Life Steal!? Really!?)!? Blizzard's not making it easier; they made it even more annoying.

    Maybe with 7.0, Blizzard will admit Mastery is one of the biggest pain in the ass stats that should have been removed with Hit, Expertise, and Parry for WoD. Screw Mastery (stupidest stat since Armor Penetration).



    It's not a fun stat when gear checkers like Mr. Robot tell you, "Raise Life Steal and Cleave or get the fuck out of raiding, you scrub." You still have to min-max no matter how much Blizzard tries to hide this (I don't hate min-maxing, but don't pretend it's easier with more bullshit stats Wow doesn't need).
    Why are you comparing Secondary stats to Tertiary stats? Why not compare Hit/Expertise to the new Secondaries, Amplify, Multistrike, and Readiness? I don't get why you're trying to compare the Life Steal/Cleave stuff to Hit/Expertise... the 3 stats(+Bonus armor) are all stats that are going to be valuable 'after a cap', unlike Hit/Expertise, and in most cases, Dodge/Parry. They're going to still have 'weight', and thus not be as easily expendable as Hit/Exp. The thing that made Hit/Expertise appalling in my mind, even more so than the 'virtual hurdle' they provided, was that they were utterly worthless past a specific point, being over half the reason Reforge existed in the first place. Reforge was a 'band-aid' for a scourge in WoW, pointless cap stats, and now they're having the balls to actually fix the problem rather than just paint over it.


    Outside of cutting edge Heroic Progression, you don't have to 'min-max down to the wire'... I don't know what guilds you raid/have raided with, but just a general understanding and attempt to gear will get you into most normal raiding guilds, and some heroic ones. Tertiary are being aimed at 'nifty-side-bonus'(hell, it's apparent even by the name 'Tertiary'), so, with know one knowing exactly how strong or weak they are, all we have to go on is their word, which as I said, is tilted towards them being rare, but 'nice' little bonuses, and not worth dropping an ilvl tier or side-grading out of desired stats for.
  1. iperson's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Orkwuzhere View Post
    You're still going to see spreadsheets when Mr Robot or other gear checkers will expect you to have these 3rd stats min-maxed with your main stats to be an efficient raider. For example, if Life Steal is going to be good for tanks, Mr Robot and gear checkers will tell you to get it or buzz off. WoD is not making stats easier no matter how you see it. Depending on your class and Blizzard's itemization, this can be absolutely dreadful (Blizzard's itemization has been pretty bad).
    Any guild that says you can't join without an item that takes on average 10 weeks to drop per raid isn't a guild I would want to app to. Remember, they're saying there's something like a 10% chance an item will have tertiary stats, there's not even a guarantee that the stat you're looking for will drop prior to the next tier. So like I said, I'd avoid the kind of stupid that would have to be present in a guild with that requirement.
  1. Ilfayt's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Orkwuzhere View Post
    You're still going to see spreadsheets when Mr Robot or other gear checkers will expect you to have these 3rd stats min-maxed with your main stats to be an efficient raider. For example, if Life Steal is going to be good for tanks, Mr Robot and gear checkers will tell you to get it or buzz off. WoD is not making stats easier no matter how you see it. Depending on your class and Blizzard's itemization, this can be absolutely dreadful (Blizzard's itemization has been pretty bad).
    See, that's exactly where you're missing the point. You're making assumptions about stats that you haven't seen the values on. Lifesteal was put into the game via a trinket in SoO(as were all the other Tertiary and secondaries), and guess what happened? It was ignored by tanks. Even at 3% overall lifesteal, it wasn't enough. Sure it was in a situation where it actually had 'weight', but the point remains, it wasn't so 'amazing' that tanks dropped whatever trinket they were rolling to go after this 'shiny new lifesteal' stat, hell some of them even outright avoided it even if they had a high tier version of it versus a low tier(Normal-Heroic Juggernaut's is still worse than LFR ToT trinkets).
  1. nightfalls's Avatar
    I think it's pretty clear that you are either straight out extremely stupid or you are being deliberately dense. I am hoping it's the former (which would mean you have a legitimate excuse) but it's probably the latter. Either way, I am done responding to you after this.

    Quote Originally Posted by iperson View Post
    Oh, and since we're clearly playing a game of semantics I'd love to see how cleave is extra damage on a single target encounter.
    1) There are only ~2/14 encounters in Siege of Orgrimmar heroic where there is just one and only one attackable target. Most of the hardest DPS checks not just this tier but in most tiers involve adds that need to die and can be cleaved.

    2) Healer cleave is never irrelevant.
  1. iperson's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    I think it's pretty clear that you are either plain stupid or you are being deliberately dense. I am hoping it's the former (which would mean you have a legitimate excuse) but it's probably the latter. Either way, I am done responding to you after this.



    1) There are only ~2/14 encounters in Siege of Orgrimmar heroic where there is just one and only one attackable target. Most of the hardest DPS checks not just this tier but in most tiers involve adds that need to die and can be cleaved.

    2) Healer cleave is never irrelevant.
    1) Always must mean something different where you're from.

    2) You said "always extra damage". When exactly would healer cleave be damage?

    Oh noes, you're done with me...
  1. Orkwuzhere's Avatar
    Reforge is awful, and it's good that it's being removed. It's not going to fix Blizzard's abysmal itemization.

    Don't be silly to think guilds won't care if you have some bullshit, tertiary stats like Life Steal if you're a healer that doesn't have armor with healing-based, tertiary stats even if you know what you're doing (just throwing these stats names out as an example). Even normal raid guilds be irritated with you if your stats aren't anywhere near optimized (there's a healing difference between optimized and whatever armor that's not optimized).
  1. Granyala's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by deftones View Post
    I think everyone is blowing this WAY out of proportion.

    The normal unsocketed/non-tertiary gear that drops will be just fine to complete whatever raid it dropped from, etc.
    Do you -need- Warforged gear to complete Heroic SoO?
    It's just the weird mindset of the WoW players, that makes them discard all suboptimal pieces as junk, even if the difference between them is something like 30 main stat, a value you never feel in the real world.

    The only thing I don't like is the change to the sockets. Ain't fun to be a jewel crafter, when sockets are super rare.
    But then again GC would like to axe profession bonuses all together, so I might just not bother leveling mine at all, if it doesn't benefit the raid.
  1. NateJagger's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rathimis View Post
    I thought warforged was/is enough RNG
    And maybe socket or no socket.

    Random stats is pushing it too far. Guess they just aim for a way to make people keep their subs active longer until the next content release.

    Not that I particularly hate the changes but you know...
  1. nightfalls's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Orkwuzhere View Post
    Even normal raid guilds be irritated with you if your stats aren't anywhere near optimized (there's a healing difference between optimized and whatever armor that's not optimized).
    Right, you don't have to be world first to say realize the value of hit cap. Those that somehow equate caring about your stats to "OMG CARE U RNT WORLD FIRST DURRR" are either just trolling or stupid, and to repeat, I hope to god it's the latter for the sake of the human race... but it's probably the former.

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