MMO-Champion - Warlords of Draenor Group Finder and Item Level Squish, Blue Tweets, Armory Stats
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Warlords of Draenor Group Finder
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Raid Finder currently struggles from a bit of a double identity. On one side of things, we want it to be a fun, low-stress environment for people who want to be able to experience new raids, but would rather not devote the necessary time from their week that joining a full-time raid team can often require. Something that you can just jump into, see the new bosses, and be done with in, say, an hour or so, without too much concern.

At the same time, however, Raid Finder has been trying to fill in as a form of endgame progression for a lot of players. There's a very real difference between the casual player who just wants to see the new stuff, and the raider who can't commit to a regular team but still wants some meaningful progression. Prior to Patch 5.4, Raid Finder was all that player really had, so we wanted to provide them as much gameplay as we could while still considering the needs of the "sightseer". Not exactly an easy task, and although we've been happy with what we've accomplished so far, we feel we can do better.

That's where Flexible Mode came in. We've been absolutely thrilled to see how well Flex has worked out, not just technically but also in how much the community has embraced it. We originally designed the feature focused on smaller or less hardcore guilds who maybe couldn't guarantee a full roster every time they wanted to raid, but we've been pleased to see that it's also been working extremely well for pick up groups (particularly through third-party services such as OpenRaid or oQueue).

In Warlords of Draenor, we're implementing a completely new Group Finder, which will allow players to find or create cross-realm groups for pretty much anything, including raids. We think that sort of environment -- finding an organized group, with a leader, and strategy, and possibly even using voice chat -- will be much more appealing and enjoyable for the player who craves an endgame raiding experience but can't find a team that fits their schedule. Plus, having an easy-to-use in-game Group Finder will, we believe, make finding such a group just as easy as queueing for Raid Finder (or easier, if you often find yourself in Raid Finder groups you'd rather not be a part of).

That, in turn, will allow us to take another look at Raid Finder and how exactly it should be tuned. I don't have any specifics to share (we simply aren't at that point in development yet), but our hope is that we'll be able to better provide for both the "busy raider" and "sightseer" styles of gameplay as a result.

In summary: if you're looking for meaningful endgame raid experience, we'd like you to do Flex, and we want to make it easier for you to do that. If you'd just like to see new stuff (or even just take a laid-back approach to raiding), we'd like you to use Raid Finder, and we want to make sure that's fun for you.

This is true, but you can get in at lower ilvls if you don't use that tool. The only raid leaders who have to worry about Blizzard's mins are the ones using the Blizzard's tool.
It's not set in stone, but our current plan is to allow group leaders to set their own restrictions (such as ilevel) when using the Group Finder tool. We'd rather allow players to be upfront about such things than create a situation where an undergeared player is joining groups just to be immediately kicked as soon as the leader inspects them.

Edit for clarity: That also means that we're not planning on having any pre-set restrictions, though again, plans could change.

Will there be stronger moderation as well? It gets really annoying when a player obviously knows they can't be kicked. Because then they just troll it up and can't be removed.
Just like non-Group Finder parties, the leader (or anyone they've promoted to assistant) will be able to kick players they feel necessary at any time.

Warlords of Draenor Item Level Squish
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Our developers are mindful of the concerns about stat squish/crunch affecting the ability to solo older Raid content. Having said that, if you are currently able to solo an older Raid, the squish should not change your ability to do that.

That's great! But I could have sworn solo raiding was frowned upon by Blizzard. Not sure they'll be too worried about keeping it a possibility. Hopefully though.
There's nothing at all wrong with going back and doing legacy raids and other content. The achievement system, cosmetic rewards and titles, and most recently transmogrification all serve to reward that playstyle. There's also a lot to be said for just being able to revisit old locations, for the sake of nostalgia or getting to experience them for the first time, without needing to find a like-minded group. As Rygarius noted, we're committed to making sure that we don't disrupt players' ability to engage in that gameplay.

Without getting into the math, our goal is to make sure that if Kael'thas's Pyroblast does damage equal to 10% of your maximum health today, it will take off no more than 10% of your health post-squish. And if you kill Onyxia in 30 seconds today, you'll be able to kill Onyxia in 30 seconds post-squish.

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Classes
not really that much of a problem with them though. Far more important things to crunch imo
We recognized that leveling wasn't feeling rewarding, and announced plans at BlizzCon for 'minor talents' that you get as you lvl (Source)
Getting passive talents that you have no control over doesn't really seem all that exciting.
Why not? (Actually asking). Seems like "Sweet, I leveled, now I can hold 5 Shadow Orbs." is more exciting than "Sweet, I leveled, now my numbers are a tiny bit bigger, I think?" Would you disagree? (Source)

And given that has said he thinks Disc/absorbs are properly balanced, little hope for that
I never said that Disc/absorbs are properly balanced. (Source)
You strongly hinted that you think the issue with absorbs is healing meter focus not much of a balance issue
No I didn't. I stated that focus on healing meters *clouds* the issue. Healing meters can't prove healer balance problems. (Source)
That doesn't mean that there isn't one. (Source)

Monk (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
It makes so much sense for my WW monk to have a water-walking ability (the roll glyph doesn't count), why hasn't this happened?
They're good at WINDwalking, not WATERwalking. (Source)

Quick Y/N: Does Avert Harm work as a personal CD when no one else in range?
While it was not intended to be used that way, yes. Technically, "all allies" includes you. Decided to leave it that way for 5.x. (Source)

Art
Not sure if youd be the one to ask about this but could we be seeing somethin like cosmetic glyphs but not class specific stuff?
I LOVE cosmetic/customization glyphs, class-based or otherwise. Not 100% sure what the item & class peeps are planning, though. (Source)

Are there new character models for draenei in WOD trailer?( looks no much different but i can see more animation)
no, that was the current model with a little animation work from our in game cinematics team. (Source)

Any plan for new rogues animations in wod?
We recognize that Rogue visuals aren't very cool/flashy. Somewhat expected, due to their stealthiness, but we can do better. (Source)

Updated textures on Classic/BC pve/pvp tier sets,to keep up with the new characters models. Is it possible and when?
Lots of rework that costs time for new sets. We try to address this with 2.0 versions of iconic armor rather than rework. (Source)

Big % of popular xmog armor is BRIGHT primary colors. Armor colors in MoP were very "faded." Can we get SOME color in WoD?
reduction in color was in response to the clown outfit epidemic of BC. Possible now with smarter itemization thx (Source)

Character / Items
I believe stat changes are intended to make it so you can put new gear on and go without reforge. Chadd?
Yes, you can put new gear on and go, most times. Less DE'd loot = you have alternate gear for more flexibility. (Source)
why would I want to carry around more gear for versatility? I already have at least 3-4 sets in bags.
Most reason that you have to have multiple gearsets right now is going away due to gear consolidation. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor Stats
How important is making all secondaries useful for each spec in WoD? E.g., will Crit have damage reduction value for Blood DK?
Important. (Source)
How do you plan to accomplish this for stats that have no value for a spec, such as the DK example? Resource regen interaction?
Nothing to announce yet, but you can see how we've made Crit useful for other tanks as examples. (Source)

I thought I saw say there will be no missing for +3 level targets anymore.
We've been consistent about it; there's no more missing against +3 targets, or being dodged. (Source)
There will still be a chance (except for tanks) to be parried. So DPS will still want to be behind. Tanks won't be parried. (Source)
I've heard it will be only 3% boss parry down from the current 7.5% is that true?
I think so, but I couldn't recall the right # offhand. If I said that in a tweet somewhere previously, yes that's still accurate. (Source)

PvP
Are we really going to go another week without addressing how weak Spriests/Boomkins are and OP Warriors/Mages are?
Shadow & Balance not in the same ballpark with respect to balance/representation, etc. Shadow just worse than early expac. (Source)
Shadow went from highly represented, to second to last with the change of a patch. If War/Mage is toned down, could help w/ Balance
Second to last? By what measure? (Source)
Keep in mind, I don't consider "representation" as a good measure of balance, but even if I did I don't see the data. (Source)
I was just curious as to why there has been no consideration of changes for sp's regardless of idea output from the communtiy
Idea output from the community has never been a factor on whether or not we make a change (Source)
so, what's the point of beta and ptr? /confused
Feedback is always welcome. (Source)
But the implication that if the community proposes a lot of solutions, we must choose one of them is false. (Source)

what do you really think about warrior? Overpowered/a bit op or balanced? Serious question
They we're considered weak so we buffed them. Then they were considered too good so we rolled back a buff. (Source)
So for me I am going to see how things play out a bit more but I think they are strong but manageable. (Source)

Have you ever thought of implementing a blizzcon global champion title for those who won?
I think it would be cool to celebrate them in game somehow for sure (Source)

Any plan for a new title after "the bloodthirsty" in pvp?
Probably not. Those achievements often encourage some degenerate behavior. (Source)

any thoughts on current BG queue times? 13 minutes waiting for a random is killing my desire to play this game.
Definitely looking at it. It isn't a technical problem unfortunately. (Source)
Perhaps the system could prioritize HvA matchups, and do HvH/AvA if a match can't be found in (X) minutes.
RBGs does do that. I would hesitate to say that's even a last resort as I'd prefer to explore other routes (Source)

Compromised accounts - Potential Trojan
This post has been updated with more information here.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
We've been receiving reports regarding a dangerous Trojan that is being used to compromise player's accounts even if they are using an authenticator for protection. The Trojan acts in real time to do this by stealing both your account information and the authenticator password at the time you enter them.

If your account has been compromised recently, I'd recommend looking for the Trojan. It can be identified by creating an MSInfo file and then looking in the Startup Program section of that file for either "Disker" or "Disker64". It will usually appear like this:

Disker rundll32.exe c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\w_win.dll,dw Name-PC\Name Startup
Disker64 rundll32.exe c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\w_64.dll,dw Name-PC\Name Startup

We are currently looking for more information on the Trojan. We have not been able to locate any anti-virus programs that will remove it besides just reformatting your system. If you have been recently compromised and find it on your system please reply with the following pieces of information.

Armory Stats - Guild Boss Kills
Our friends over at WoWProgress have put together some nice stats on the number of guilds and players that are killing bosses.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor Group Finder and Item Level Squish, Blue Tweets, Armory Stats started by chaud View original post
Comments 39 Comments
  1. stgeorge78's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jinreeko View Post
    how many times do they need to say that item squish won't affect soloing old raids?
    They said it "should not" affect not "will not" - how many times does Blizzard go back on what they said previously? Many times...

    Until they produce the math that shows how they turn an exponential curve to a linear line and preserve the relative power difference (which is the core of what allows soloing) then people should remain skeptical. Because it's not a solvable problem where the same raid remains equal for at-level players and max-level players (since max-level players are currently 10X stronger than Wrath content, and squished would be something like 2X stronger). So either raid bosses become one-shot for players at the same level or max level players have to work a lot harder to solo the same boss.
  1. Cattleya's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jinreeko View Post
    how many times do they need to say that item squish won't affect soloing old raids?
    To be fair, they keep saying that, but never explain how they'll do it, that's why people keep asking about it. If they succeed, that's fine, but a healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing.
  1. Spotnick's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    You obviously haven't thought that through very well, you wouldn't be the only one that has the power to down vote people. Imagine every single time someone quits in lfr they down vote the entire raid just to spite them. Then there would be people down voting for silly reasons such as they just don't like them or they aren't specced the way you want them to be etc.
    Statistics have all kind of formulas to eliminate top and bottom votes, don't worry about it.

    The whole reason people join guilds is because they want to raid with people on the same level their are, since Blizzard doesn't seem interested to do some kind of PVE rating, there really is no way to know if you are going to waste your time or not. Personally I'd like to know who I'm raiding with, because I don't wish to re-do progression on stuff I have already killed multiple times, and that's why I usually don't pug.

    iLvl is really not the good metric to use here. But so far the answer from Blizzard has been "make your own group" to avoid match making with people you won't enjoy. This raid browser is a tool to make your own group, so it only makes sense there is some kind of way to build a group that, let's say, could kill a few heroic bosses.

    If such a system existed where people could group up with people with same experience they have, it would be awesome. But then, what would be the point of raiding guilds lol. Some people think it's elitist to think that way, well, let's think of this as any sport, they have various levels in professional sports for a reason.
  1. Grizzly UK's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Peeb View Post
    For people wondering here is the list for AVs that detect the trojan. https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/8...c0344/analysis
    Detection is the first step, but I think people also want to know if any AV's can actually remove the trojan as well, particularly when Blizzard say they "have not been able to locate any anti-virus programs that will remove it besides just reformatting your system."!

    I really wish there was some way that the low-life <insert your own appropriate insult> responsible for these trojans could be held accountable and punished for all the misery they cause!
  1. Spotnick's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Wont work because the system will be open to abuse, though one way around that problem of abuse it to make it like the kick system in that every one in the raid group has to vote the person down a reputation level and not just one or four or whatever the kick system needs now.. But then again the problem of abusing the system still remains..
    Well, if letting it to the community doesn't work, then some kind of PVE rating similar to the PVP rating would definitively work better than ilvl as a metric.

    Like I said, it would never happen, but it would be nice, and a very nice incentive for people to give an effort.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    "Will there be stronger moderation as well? It gets really annoying when a player obviously knows they can't be kicked. Because then they just troll it up and can't be removed.
    Just like non-Group Finder parties, the leader (or anyone they've promoted to assistant) will be able to kick players they feel necessary at any time."

    I'm sorry, but this is not enough. There needs to be a rating system in place. Yeah sure you can kick that troll but there is nothing in place to stop him from just joining a new group and ruining that. The reason open raid works so well is the rating system. If you're horrible you soon find yourself unable to find a group. We need to go back to the old days when there were server communities and people got reputations. If you were a dick you would find yourself blacklisted. Cross server crap made a wave of anonymous assholes. Blizzard half assing this feature is making it just another joke like LFR is.
  1. americandavey's Avatar
    I dont know I never saw a good thing from Blizzard's "let the community police themselves" logic. To me it has never worked. I would like a Rockstar GTA online kinda thing where the problematic players/account are put in their own pool to group with.

    Yes I know it will never happened, but one can dream.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    You obviously haven't thought that through very well, you wouldn't be the only one that has the power to down vote people. Imagine every single time someone quits in lfr they down vote the entire raid just to spite them. Then there would be people down voting for silly reasons such as they just don't like them or they aren't specced the way you want them to be etc.
    It doesn't work that way. One person voting against you doesn't change your score. After a raid is completed you have a list of everyone in the raid. You vote on each member. It then takes all the votes and if a certain amount gave you a bad one your score goes down, or up if they voted positive. That way the moron that rage quit and wiped the group before he left has no power over the people he screwed over. But the majority of the raid can now affect his score. The very fact that a system is in place will have a tremendous affect on people's behavior. Not only is there incentive to be polite and do well, since they get a higher score, there is a fear in place of not wanting to get on a blacklist.

    Quote Originally Posted by jinreeko View Post
    how many times do they need to say that item squish won't affect soloing old raids?
    When they stop using the word "should" and start using "will" then we'll stop asking. I honestly think they'll screw this up bad.
  1. Rude Hero's Avatar
    does this post mean they're going to somehow remove LFR from the gearing treadmill for flex raiders?

    i want to be able to quickly jump into flex mode raiding, and the ten weeks or whatever it takes to gear up in LFR on a new character is really too much for me.
  1. heerobya's Avatar
    I like the idea of making LFR even more noob friendly, possibly lowering ilvl to match like heroics +10 or whatever, and making Flex (searchable w/o 3rd party addons) the go-to progression option for good/decent players who don't have the time/commitment for a real raiding schedule.

    I support this move and this logic Blizzard, thank you.

    Still, I think you have to go one step further. Use Proving Grounds as a litmus test for joining group content. Would it be that hard? Redesign the Proving Grounds for WoD at 100 to actually make you learn and demonstrate how to effectively handle situations as a tank, healer, or DPS (including avoiding bad things, picking up adds, clicking objects, CC, etc.)

    Like, you have to get a Bronze rating as Tank/Heal/DPS in PG to do Heroics LFD as T/H/D, Silver rating in PG as T/H/D to do LFR as that role, and Gold rating to do Flex.

    Make minimum gear requirements to attempt Bronze/Silver/Gold challenges, make players really prove they understand mechanics and how to play their class before being allowed to have a DIRECT effect on other players enjoyment of the game. Done. Simple.
  1. Quilzar's Avatar
    I am very much in favour of a ranking system as well.

    It does need to be well thought through though so people can't/don't abuse it.

    I have been very impressed with the oQ groups I have joined (I do Flex 2 for my transmog set quite a bit).

    There is some sense of responsibility which is nice.
  1. Kektonic's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jinreeko View Post
    how many times do they need to say that item squish won't affect soloing old raids?
    Until their braindead userbase finally grasps it which will probably be six years AFTER it takes place.
  1. RoKPaNda's Avatar
    Leaving the item level requirements up to the users is pretty much the worst idea ever for the group finder. Players have shown since BC at least that they have NO IDEA what the gear requirement for a raid/dungeon/etc is. The new group finder is most definitely NOT for the good player that doesn't have time or a set schedule to raid. Or I should say while that may be their intention, it won't work out that way. The good player with time issues is not going to have the ilevel requirement that idiotic players will set for content, and as such the system designed for them will become worthless to them. LFR remains king of the hill for people that can't fit a raid schedule to their life, woo. -.-

    Quote Originally Posted by heerobya View Post
    I like the idea of making LFR even more noob friendly, possibly lowering ilvl to match like heroics +10 or whatever, and making Flex (searchable w/o 3rd party addons) the go-to progression option for good/decent players who don't have the time/commitment for a real raiding schedule.
    I'd be really happy about it too if the ilevel requirement wasn't left up to the players. If Blizzard set the ilevel, it would be set appropriately, and kicking people without an ilevel higher than required / higher than the reward would become too much of a hassle to even worry about. Then content would be more accessible and fit the intended audience.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by heerobya View Post
    I like the idea of making LFR even more noob friendly, possibly lowering ilvl to match like heroics +10 or whatever, and making Flex (searchable w/o 3rd party addons) the go-to progression option for good/decent players who don't have the time/commitment for a real raiding schedule.

    I support this move and this logic Blizzard, thank you.

    Still, I think you have to go one step further. Use Proving Grounds as a litmus test for joining group content. Would it be that hard? Redesign the Proving Grounds for WoD at 100 to actually make you learn and demonstrate how to effectively handle situations as a tank, healer, or DPS (including avoiding bad things, picking up adds, clicking objects, CC, etc.)

    Like, you have to get a Bronze rating as Tank/Heal/DPS in PG to do Heroics LFD as T/H/D, Silver rating in PG as T/H/D to do LFR as that role, and Gold rating to do Flex.

    Make minimum gear requirements to attempt Bronze/Silver/Gold challenges, make players really prove they understand mechanics and how to play their class before being allowed to have a DIRECT effect on other players enjoyment of the game. Done. Simple.
    I would prefer if they made tutorials. Other games have them. I think it's stupid that people need to go watch fan made videos on youtube in order to learn the fights. They should have a solo instance where you go to say, immerseus. It's you and 24 AI characters. And it shows you what the fight will be like, explains the mechanics and allows you to try it. In order to queue for a wing you need to complete each boss tutorial. I've been noticing a ton of people in flex groups that have no idea what is happening. Look at Lei Shen. People running away when they get static shock. People running to the overcharged platform and hanging out there like idiots.
  1. Osmeric's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rude Hero View Post
    does this post mean they're going to somehow remove LFR from the gearing treadmill for flex raiders?

    i want to be able to quickly jump into flex mode raiding, and the ten weeks or whatever it takes to gear up in LFR on a new character is really too much for me.
    I suspect heroic 5 mans are going to be the gearing precursor for Flex, and normal 5 mans for LFR (and that LFR and heroic 5 mans and possibly world TI-like content will have similar gear levels).
  1. SalizarMarxx's Avatar
    WoW progress is currently reporting guilds that have merged server players as LFR raids and not as normal or heroic raids. So these numbers should be higher than currently being reported.
  1. The Ogdru Jahad's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Wont work because the system will be open to abuse, though one way around that problem of abuse it to make it like the kick system in that every one in the raid group has to vote the person down a reputation level and not just one or four or whatever the kick system needs now.. But then again the problem of abusing the system still remains..



    As my bit above says there would be a high probability of people abusing the system..
    Honestly, who cares, who is going to abuse the system and why? The whole raid doesn't need to vote, just the majority, because I know for sure there will be people who "just don't care" and won't vote either way.

    Look at the ribbons in LoL, if you give out bad reviews to players a lot, your reviews are worth less, and same goes for the good ones. So if you abuse the system and give everyone a lot of negative ratings, it'll stop being worth anything.
  1. heerobya's Avatar
    Sounds like the plan is:

    Dungeons (same) -> LFR (easier than on live)

    Heroics (much harder) -> Flex (about the same as on live)

    Heroic Raids

    Mythic Raids

    Completely separate dungeon->LFR progression for the site seer and heroic-flex for the PUG who are not bad and want progression, leave Heroic for guilds and mythic for top 1-2%.

    I like it.
  1. piromaca's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Peeb View Post
    For people wondering here is the list for AVs that detect the trojan.
    I got hacked too even with my authenticator. Maybe i got this fake curse trojan too...
    So what you posted means Avast cant detect this trojan? Its sad. I use spaybot search and destroy 1.6.2 and malwarebytes too, but they cant detect it either.

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