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Warlords of Draenor PvP Stats
Blizzard recently shared some more information on the plans for PvP stats in Warlords of Draenor.


Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
We are looking at reducing or completely removing baseline Resilience, but it's a big change and requires other larger changes to go with it. Changes that big we tend to wait until an expansion (Warlords) to make - as well as a lot of testing and feedback from y'all during beta. We do have some changes with Season 15, but they won't be a huge departure from where we're already at, mainly tweaks to existing numbers.

Bashiok, I made a suggestion in a thread i created a few days ago, as well as again earlier today in a new thread someone made.
I think in-general we like to avoid piling on more systems when we can achieve the same or (ideally) better results just through intelligent use of the ones we already have - to be entirely vague about it. In any case, I think it'll be something we can really only come to a conclusion on through a ton of testing during the Warlords beta. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Can we get a pvp dummy?
Great suggestion. I'll be sure to bring it up with the team.

That said, we're doing a lot of retuning of how health works in comparison to incoming damage in Warlords, with the hope that we won't need (or can significantly lessen the effects of) things like Battle Fatigue or Base Resilience. If all goes well, there shouldn't be as nearly as substantial of a difference between PvE and PvP damage output.

Still, it's a great suggestion, and there will likely still be at least a small difference (due to PvP Power if nothing else), so I'll make sure to pass it on.

Sounds like a good goal but probably to hard of goal to hit.
It's definitely tough, but we think we can at least get things a lot closer than they currently are.

I think he means more along the lines of "Why can I Chaos Bolt for 1.5 million in PvE while PvP I can rarely go above 180k?" kinds of situations, which I think is a legit concern.
Precisely.

If you guys are doing as much number tinkering as you claim I don't know why you wouldn't take this opportunity to rethink pvp power altogether. I'm all for differentiating gear but I find it pretty silly that a stat called "pvp power" exists at all.
We are planning to revisit PvP Power in Warlords. Our current thinking is that, instead of a flat percentage increase to your normal damage/healing in PvP (as it is currently), it'll be a bonus amount of your spec's primary stat (Strength, Agility, or Intellect).

Here's an example with some completely made-up numbers: lets say a piece of gear has 80 Strength and 30 PvP Power on it. In a PvP environment, that would total out to be 110 Strength. Meanwhile, an equivalent piece of PvE gear might only have 100 Strength on it. Again, those numbers are purely hypothetical, but hopefully it illustrates the idea.

That change accomplishes a couple of things for us. First, it lets us keep PvP and PvE item levels closer together, while still ensuring that PvP gear remains best for PvP and vice versa. It also "demystifies" PvP Power quite a bit; a percentage-based increase can be hard to really quantify without a lot of math, but raw stats are much easier to understand.

As to the name, we can talk about it, but part of why we chose the term "PvP Power" to begin with was that it makes it extremely obvious that the stat only functions inside PvP environments. We want to be sure that players who purchase PvP gear know that it's going to be less effective in PvE situations. I'll bring it up, though.

I really like the idea behind that and it's similar to what I suggested previously. Why not something like this (ROUGH numbers) :

PvP Item A has 70 agi/str/int + 30 PvP Power
PvE Item A has 100 agi/str/int
PvP power does not function in PvE "instances", but functions everywhere else.
1 PvP Power = 1 agi/str/int in the open world
1 PvP Power = 2 agi/str/int inside PvP instances

That way both gear types are basically equal in the open world and equally handicapped in the respective instances. I see no reason that PvP gear should be weaker in the open world against mobs. Gear differences are mainly been for instances anyway.

We've discussed a similar idea (and may yet decide to go with something like it), but our concern with it is that it's still somewhat complicated for players to figure out. As I mentioned earlier, one of the issues we'd like to solve is how difficult it can be to figure out exactly what impact PvP Power is going to have on your effectiveness. "1 PvP Power = 1 Strength vs Players" is easy to get across and understand. "1 PvP Power = 2 Strength in Arenas and Battlegrounds, worthless in dungeons and raids, and 1 Strength in the open world," not so much.

One other thing I should mention based on some other comments in here is that, just like today, PvP Power will be active vs players in any context, not just inside PvP instances. So if you're comparing a PvE and PvP piece of the same item level -- for example, a piece of Conquest gear and a piece of Heroic raid gear -- it should work out something like this:

  • The PvE item is stronger in PvE instances
  • The PvP item is stronger in PvP instances
  • The PvE item is slightly stronger vs creatures in the open world
  • The PvP item is slightly stronger vs players in the open world

Once again, I need to be clear that this is all early development thinking and anything might change, but our hope is that whatever we end up doing makes things work something like that. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Battleground Queue Times
Battlegrounds have used region-wide matchmaking since Cataclysm. Battlegroups are only used by matchmaking systems as a preferred set of realms to match you with, but queue times will dictate how fast and far it'll attempt to match you with others outside your Battlegroup. So really there are no longer any Battlegroup restrictions or limitations in the game.

Since your post was made in the morning/early afternoon I'd hazard a guess that your play time could be a factor, as most people play the game in the evening, and queue times are of course mainly going to be about how many other people are in the queue with you.

I'd recommend spending your wait-time doing something to pass the time that also works toward a goal, maybe an achievement, or even something more PvP focused like the 5.1 rare spawns that drop Honor tokens - probably a bit more fun that staring at the queue time anyway.(Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Future
Are you going to continue updating Brawler's Guild in WoD? It's a cool feature...
Side/flavor content like that usually happens & evolves whenever the designer can squeeze time into the schedule. So, maybe? (Source)

what is happening with quivers in WoD?
Dunno. They never quite 100% worked. Needed new/better tech. They looked awesome, though! (Source)

you guys maybe work Kara into a 5man or scenariopost WoD launch ?? Pretty please :-)
I'd be surprised if something didn't happen w/ it eventually. It's too cool a place for just solo mount & pet runs. (Source)

Transmogrification
I think people should be able to transmog their items to look like their banked Legendaries. But only that.
Yes, internally, there's a range of opinions on what's valid for it. Can't say if it's changing anytime soon. (Source)

Any chance for Silvermoon city guard armor to be added as transmog gear? Was suggested a while back that it'd be implimented.
There's no armor. That guard asset is one solid piece, shield and weapon included. Also... *whispers* ...it's actually a night elf! (Source)
Aw... that's a real shame. That weapon and shield are beautiful. Any chance for them to be added? Maybe along with glaives?
Shield too big & glaives discouraged internally, but maybe! Ideal time would've been back when BE warriors were introduced. T_T (Source)
Can we ask why glaives are discouraged?
Some decisions, old & new, are flavor, or lore, or art; just "gut"/feels stuff. Sometimes they change, sometimes not. (Source)

Speaking of funky gas masks... any chance of making that thing transmoggable? With or without the backpack.
A chance, perhaps, but it's not quite in line w/ current item/reward philosophy. (Source)

Oh! Oh! Any chance for more flowers like Forever-Lovely Rose? One of my favorite flavor items!
Would be cool! That one was a character artist's GF's idea. I was like, U MAKE DAT ART, I'LL MAKE DAT ITEM <3 (Source)

UI / Addons
Will we ever get better combat log support for encounters that have an "upstairs" and "downstairs" (ex: Gara'jal)
While we can't guarantee 100% coverage, this is a problem that we recognize and are going to make an effort on going forward. (Source)

Pet Battles
could the Everlook goblins develop the robo cub/chick technology more, and train engineer hunters to craft their own mech pets?
Engineers & mechanical pets, jewelcrafters & gem/figurine pets, etc. etc. It's all come up many times over the years, yes. (Source)
i was meaning for hunter pets not companion/battle pets
So was I. *queue dramatic music* Jade tigers, mechanical tallstriders, robo-apes, that sort of thing. (Source)

like Eye of the legion is undead and not magical?
Battle pets are a totally different animal, pun intended; more a balance/ability call. 100% flavor thing w/ Hunter pets. (Source)
There is no Demon BP family, so demonic BPs are tossed into either Undead or Magic as current design need/flavor dictates. (Source)

World
Do you think we could get bunny rabbit mounts from Noblegarden
Even I am not that silly. Well... wait. Yeah, you're right. Maybe. But probably not! (Source)

Misc
where did Prince Malchezar come from? Why does he mention time and space? sure doodads...
Medivh's meddling/experiments weakened barrier between realities, thus warp creatures etc. (Source)
This doesn't jive with the Eredar Prince's claims of being able to control time and spice.
It does; he sensed a weak point and drilled thru the infinite Twisting Nether to open it! (Source)
Prince Malchezaar basically drew the tower top "up" into infinite chaos. And floaty rocks. (Source)
and Midevh was cool with this? Was he looking for a roommate?
Totally; he posted a craigslist ad and everything: pets/smoking/drama ok, must like opera (Source)
sounds like a chill guy. He looking for more?
Only if you don't mind being a crazy ghost! (But seriously, Medivh was long gone by then.) (Source)

Upcoming Hearthstone Beta Patch
Blizzard posted the changes coming to Hearthstone in a patch later this week today. If you are interested in the reasoning for these changes, see the full post on Hearthpwn.


This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor PvP Stats, Blue Posts, Blue Tweets, Hearthstone Beta Patch started by chaud View original post
Comments 27 Comments
  1. moveth's Avatar
    I want bunny mounts as well. Please, Blizz
  1. Yig's Avatar
    Can we ask why glaives are discouraged?
    Some decisions, old & new, are flavor, or lore, or art; just "gut"/feels stuff. Sometimes they change, sometimes not.
    So basically one of the most common weapons seen used by NPCs and all over a society are off limits to players. I wonder why,... Could it be THEY ARE SAVING THEM FOR SOMETHING?
    It would be ridiculous to claim this is all to make an outdated legendary from the first expansion have more meaning. But a new class or cosmetic mechanic,....

    I may be obsessed with demon hunters, but Blizzard's silence on them speaks volumes to my bias.

    Look. at. them. all.

  1. Zokten's Avatar
    All I have to say is ROFL! at hearthstone
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    His goal should be to learn how to spell.
  1. MrKnubbles's Avatar
    Glaives would be awesome.
  1. Simca's Avatar
    A lot of those glaive models are for night elves, and I think one is even a projectile fired from the glaive throwers. Still, would be cool to have like a 'Miscellaneous" category with Flails and Glaives and some other fun stuff.
  1. Woakerio's Avatar
    I know a few people that quit mostly because of the baseline resilience change, so depending on how they change it perhaps I could lure them back...
  1. cptaylor38's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    So basically one of the most common weapons seen used by NPCs and all over a society are off limits to players. I wonder why,... Could it be THEY ARE SAVING THEM FOR SOMETHING?
    It would be ridiculous to claim this is all to make an outdated legendary from the first expansion have more meaning. But a new class or cosmetic mechanic,....

    I may be obsessed with demon hunters, but Blizzard's silence on them speaks volumes to my bias.

    Look. at. them. all.


    Well I doubt they are saving it for anything but maybe. I feel like it would be kind of lousy to just have it be a demon hunter only weapon the legendaries can be used by so many other classes. Plus, it doesn't exactly make for a major selling point to an expansion, or shouldn't even if it really does to people like me.

    Personally I'm just insulted that they're no considering their customers' long-spoken desire to have more glaives in the game. I'm not going to say that I speak for everyone, but I do have the OPINION*************** that I speak for a good majority. And to outright ignore such an iconic weapon design in the game for "internal gut feelings" just seems rude. Whether it's their game or not, it's the players that keep it funded. I just think that a lot of things in this game should be decided upon via somekind of in game survey or something instead of always being left up to what the developers want to do. Sure there are limitations, but for something as simple as adding a new weapon style into the game, doesn't seem like it would break anything to me!

    Hell, I'm probably going to level my rogue from 85-90 with her one warglaive equipped the entire time just because I love it so much.
  1. markdall's Avatar
    They ruined PVP by adding resilience. Yes, back in vanilla. Yes, I've been playing that long. Up until about 8 months or so ago, on a PVP server. The truth of the matter is that they took a look at their two kinds of players - people who PVE all the time, and people who PVP all the time. Then they gave the people who PVP all the time a massive advantage against anybody who doesn't.

    IF they wanted truly fun world PVP they'd normalize all gear to a certain - I don't care what - item level including PVP resilience (or just ditch it) and PVP power (or just ditch it). Now it's you and your friends vs. them and their friends. Numbers and skill wins, you cannot out gear each other in the open world. BGs and arenas remain unchanged.

    But of course they won't. People would cry and moan, mostly the people who are used to their unfair advantage. Because here's the deal - nobody wants a fair fight. We just want to win.

    No skin off my nose - my raiding guild moved to a high pop PVE server and I couldn't be happier. I sometimes miss all my other characters, but you couldn't pay me to play them at this point.
  1. Kuja's Avatar
    Ooh. If they remove resilience, I will gladly start to pvp again :P
  1. Captaincakewalk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    His goal should be to learn how to spell.
    Actually, the only word he misspelled was 'resil' which is because on twitter you are limited to a set amount of letters.

    And 'resi' is a misspelling in itself too.
  1. Lorien's Avatar
    The Silvermoon Guard armor/glaive tweets are three weeks old (Dec 23). Why are they showing back up today?
  1. Captaincakewalk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    I want bunny mounts as well. Please, Blizz
    Agreed! And a snail mount like the one on TI!
  1. Kobomino's Avatar
    People want glaives, I want the giant log weapon that you find on Cairne Bloodhoof for my Tauren toons.
  1. Gilian's Avatar
    you guys maybe work Kara into a 5man or scenariopost WoD launch ?? Pretty please :-)
    I'd be surprised if something didn't happen w/ it eventually. It's too cool a place for just solo mount & pet runs.

    /cry

    It is a cool place until they turn it in some abomination (5 man/scenario). It will never be as good or better, never ever.
  1. ziv0rk's Avatar
    Rip pyroblast
  1. Yig's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    A lot of those glaive models are for night elves, and I think one is even a projectile fired from the glaive throwers. Still, would be cool to have like a 'Miscellaneous" category with Flails and Glaives and some other fun stuff.
    Yes, glaives are elven racial weapons, the projectiles are for sentinels, which hunters have an ability to throw them like in WC3.
    I don't think they need a category any more than Azzinoth glaives do, just another sword variation or throwing weapon for cosmetics.
  1. Heisenburg's Avatar
    Add a glyph for hunters that allows them to use their pets as a ground mount. Do it. Do it now.
  1. Yig's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by cptaylor38 View Post
    Well I doubt they are saving it for anything but maybe. I feel like it would be kind of lousy to just have it be a demon hunter only weapon the legendaries can be used by so many other classes. Plus, it doesn't exactly make for a major selling point to an expansion, or shouldn't even if it really does to people like me.

    Personally I'm just insulted that they're no considering their customers' long-spoken desire to have more glaives in the game. I'm not going to say that I speak for everyone, but I do have the OPINION*************** that I speak for a good majority. And to outright ignore such an iconic weapon design in the game for "internal gut feelings" just seems rude. Whether it's their game or not, it's the players that keep it funded. I just think that a lot of things in this game should be decided upon via somekind of in game survey or something instead of always being left up to what the developers want to do. Sure there are limitations, but for something as simple as adding a new weapon style into the game, doesn't seem like it would break anything to me!

    Hell, I'm probably going to level my rogue from 85-90 with her one warglaive equipped the entire time just because I love it so much.
    I wish my rogue had the set of warglaives my warrior has, I have confidence one day we will be able to mog them, I am 95% certain. And I have a small hope they will create universal transmog libraries similar to mounts and pets, account wide. Though it would remove a lot of content for alts, transmog runs.
    But it would just be so popular and fulfilling to bring the WOW lore to life even more with transmog.

    But their gut feelings I feel matter more than you seem to give them credit for, they're pretty much nearly admitting they are saving them for something by using the "gut feeling" excuse I'd say. Those gut feelings are another word the break out when approaching the issue around traditional aesthetic restrictions of the RPG and fantasy genre.

    They're talking about why classes only can belong to certain races, why only certain classes can use only certain weapons, why only certain factions have certain races, all very deep seeded aesthetic conceptions that keep the WOW world feeling like WOW and your choices from being watered down and robbed of distinction.

    Now why deny us glaives? They are common in night elf society.

    They don't deny other racial specialized weapons to other races and classes, anyone can use Rend's Doomsaw that can use a pole arm, a Blademaster sword using polearm mechanics, and you don't need to be an orc or a blademaster. The Argent Tournament's racial weapons are all able to be used by any race.

    That's why I think glaives are not being restricted just because elves are traditionally the only races who use them(and trolls), I think they want them to be a possible major element of the class kit of demon hunters are ever established in game. Demon hunters need all the unique novelty they can muster to warrant existing. Especially seeing how they're realizing the class in totally new ways within their flavor in Heroes of the Storm. Hurling your glaives into the ground like a totem from hell, using it like a warrior uses their banner as a target to charge and intercept and safeguard.

    I think it could possibly work like Runeforging, mogging any weapon type demon hunters use into a selection of warglaives. It would be like stealing the stats of the weapon for your glaive to consume, much as demon hunters steal the powers and souls of demons.

    They would have an altar I could imagine where any weapon with magical stats is broken down to it's reagents and spells, then imbued into the variety of glaives you unlock as you level up.

    Just like Hunters are now the only class that can use guns or bows, it's not unheard of.

    And if WOTLK is precedent, they will have some token glaives similar to DK armor and runeblades any melee user can use too, the other melee fighters just won't have the rich mechanics and themes and array of glaive models as the class will have access to with specialized glaive animations I see on par with the monk's library of custom animations.

    All in my deranged hopes of course.
  1. Heisenburg's Avatar
    Add a glyph for hunters that allow them to use their pets as ground moutnts. GG

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