Battleground Win Ratios, Upcoming SoO Changes Feedback, Blue Tweets, DLC #424

Balance on Legendary Drops, Zakarum, Paladins, Templars and Crusaders, Are Numbers Too Large in RoS

Armory Stats - Battleground Win Ratios
Today we are taking a look at the win percentage for each faction and battleground that took place in the last month. To find these numbers, we compared the number of battles and victories a character had in a December snapshot of data to a January snapshot of data.

These numbers come from a character's statistics pane, so any bugs with character statistics will have skewed the results. This means that there isn't any way for us to verify how accurate these numbers are, so do not take them as fact.

Percentages came fairly close to 100% in most cases, so we normalized the data to 100%. Unfortunately it seems that most Eye of the Storm wins are still not recorded in your statistics most of the time. This bug has been around for five or more years now, but we normalized the data we had (~7.9% and ~9.8% win ratios for each faction) for the chart.

The data used today is a sample made up of ~7 million level 90 characters and ~7 million battles. The sample is slightly biased, as players who are not in a guild are less likely to appear in our sample.

You can see the data from the last time we did this back in 2011, which shows a slightly different picture.

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Upcoming Siege of Orgrimmar Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
I agree. I also am not sure why removing the trivial healing mechanic from Sigecrafter is even...worth it. Most guilds are 4 healing this encounter to kill it, now it's definitely going to be a 4 heal fight. Directly after your tuned for 6-8 fight, Thok. ???
Raid groups are largely making steady progress, but as I said, there are exceptions. Regarding Heroic difficulty in particular, it's pretty obvious that there is a very large jump in difficulty from Thok to Siegecrafter. Siegecrafter/Paragons/Garrosh are currently very close to equal in difficulty, with each presenting different challenges and guilds taking roughly the same number of attempts to defeat each. We'd rather see an upward slope in difficulty, which leaves guilds feeling like the next step is within reach given enough time and dedication, rather than a sudden jump up to a much higher difficulty plateau. That's why we're nerfing Heroic Blackfuse moderately, Paragons just a little bit, and Garrosh not at all.

The changes shouldn't be enough to meaningfully alter healer composition, but they will make some of those "combo" deaths to two damage sources overlapping a bit less likely.

I'm certain that guilds who have already defeated these encounters or who are on the verge of doing so will find that the adjustments make a big difference, but remember, that's because you've already refined a working strategy and have practiced the execution. Guilds coming into the fights for the first time will still need to handle the precise movement associated with the different Blackfuse phases, belt teams will have to learn to navigate the belt lasers consistently, and so forth. Both Blackfuse and Paragons will remain quite challenging. And then there's always Garrosh....

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Art
I've been asking to allow us to make uncorrupted orcs for a while. Any chance of that happening???
can't definitively say yes, but it's likely that will be an option in some way. It would be cool to see UO PC in Azeroth (Source)

Would it really be that difficult to update the goblin/worgen models? You guys surely still have the original LoDs, right?
I'd like to at some point, they still use our original rigging/animation system. Pandaren introduced new system. (Source)

Character / Items
Will [Ai-Li's Skymirror] ever be allowed to copy one's character illusion again? Ex: Grasp from Pre-ZF? An updated WoD version?
Those are fun, but we don't want it to become annoying, and that opens up too many possibilities. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor Stats
Will Disc at least be fixed to do double healing from a multistrike crit. Else it is 100% useless stat for Disc.
I think you may misunderstand something. Crits don't do doublehealing for Disc, as a rule. But how does that make MS useless? (Source)
Sorry, said that backwards, when a spell crit as Disc procs MS, the MS is just as powerful as non-crit, makes it feel weak
You're misunderstanding Multistrike. The healing of the hit that triggered multistrike doesn't matter. Separate healing roll. (Source)
And an MS that crits would trigger Divine Aegis. (Source)

I keep seeing promises that the item squish won't affect soloing capabilities, but is this for all characters or only level 90s?
All. (Source)
That is to say; the squish won't affect soloing capabilities, but other changes may. Soloing at low levels isn't a balance focus. (Source)

Does this mean that we'll start seeing the new stats (possibly mastery even) on gear at very low levels?
Mastery is staying lvl80+. New stats are still being determined, but most likely not available from level 1. (Source)

PvE
I hope this wouldn't replace Warstomp. I know it's not the best for PvE DPS but great for questing/soloing as a caster druid.
No, we wouldn't replace Warstomp. (Source)

PvP
That is good news! Are you planning to increase base resilience with the new season?
Yes (Source)

How big in game scale wise is Ashran? Like are we talking AV big or Wintergrasp big
From base to base is similar to AV but it's wider. (Source)
Would you say Ashran is a spiritual successor to AV? Or more like Timeless Isle?
More like AV (Source)

back to gear being the major determining factor in PvP success. Guess the accessibility experiment didn't work out?
I don't really see how you came to that conclusion. (Source)
dialing back resilience "as much as possible" says bursty PvP and emphasizes PvP power. Sounds like old times 2 me.
In WoD, health pools will be relatively larger and PvP Power is being redefined. It will end up less bursty. (Source)
Is this true for low lvl PvP too? Some spells are too potent in heirloom gear. Aimed Shot and Shield Slam can *literally* one-shot.
A lot of spells have base damage which leads to this issue. We're going through these spells to reduce the base damage. (Source)

so I was wondering if you guys could start doing realm rankings/leaders instead of region? A lot of friends and I are curious.
We've gotten the request a lot so we'll have to look into it. (Source)
"Instead"? Why not "in addition to"?
Certainly what I meant (Source)

It also feels lousy to work hard to acquire full grievous gear only to be killed by a dragon slayer in heroic pve gear
Yup, we've mentioned we don't want to end up in this situation again. (Source)
but I give you credit in admiting that what occurred was not what you intended.
Certain systems (like warforged and upgrades) that inflate ilevels didn't make much sense for PvP. (Source)
PvP not having them meant gear falling further behind. (Source)

I've already given you a good solution. Nerf dmg/healing by 65/55% and roll those numbers into a raid wide buff for players who pve
It isn't a good solution for the same reasons base resilience and battle fatigue aren't good solutions. (Source)
The entire reason why you needed BF/Resil is because abilities do too much damage/healing.
It's lousy to have a spell hit for 100k against a creature and 20k against a player no matter where you increase/decrease it. (Source)

as horde I frequently spend more time in random BG queue then in the actual games. Fix it please. Faction conflict !> fast queues
I wish it could be fixed quickly. I really do. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor
Didnt know where to ask. Blizzcon mention quest items gone from bank in WoD. Will my [Amulet of Draconic Subversion] disappear?
Don't know yet. Could be considered a Toy, perhaps. If you still have the quest, may be kept. Very up in the air, know important (Source)

Dark Legacy Comics - #424
DLC #424 has been released!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Battleground Win Ratios, Upcoming SoO Changes Feedback, Blue Tweets, DLC #424 started by chaud View original post
Published on 2014-01-20 01:58 AM
219 Comments
Comments 218 Comments
  1. Jibjabb's Avatar
    (GASP) AV IS BALANCED IN THE ALLIANCE FAVOR!?

    ZOMG NO WAY

    if only the player base had been saying this for the last 5 years or so
  1. Godric's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbath234543 View Post
    They need to remove IOC from the game, and remove AV from Q to make it like vanilla AV with Hour(s) long battles, dailies, objectives and mini bosses, AND make the dailies, boss and player kills give honor. In one fail swoop you get rid of the whole reason Horde dont Q AV and IOC, BOTS.
    What an absolutely horrible idea. It's interesting to note how many horde players will complain about the 40 mans but don't seem to have a problem with winning the majority of everything else.
  1. Kolic's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    And why is that exactly?

    I can't expect to clear normal raids with PVP gear, why should we let PVE'ers do "normal" BGs with their gear?
    I say gear should cross over more. Let PVP gear be slightly worse but still viable in raids, and PVE gear about the same in BGs. I'd rather players be able to enjoy both without having to spend double the time to get the respective gear.
  1. Railander's Avatar
    i assume the people being perplexed by the statistics havent done bgs in a while.
    the main reason the disparity between alliance/horde w/l rations skyrocketed in favor of alliance in AV and IoC was because of the option to blacklist bgs.
    compare january's graphic with the one from 2011. the trends were the same, but deffinitely not as impacted.
    back when the 2011 statistic was snapshotted (WotLK i believe), horde still used to win IoC, but if you remember cataclysm, alliance almost always won it. when MoP came out and the option to blacklist bgs was implemented, horde players simply blacklisted the bgs they used to lose most of the time (those 2), which resulted in only inexperienced horde players still playing them (because they dont even know there is an option to blacklist them) or bots.
    alliance, on the other hand, picked some other 2 bgs that they thought they lost the most to blacklist. again, inexperienced players and bots still played said bgs.

    bg blacklisting was a great idea in principle, but turned out disastrous. it is also the main reason queue times are horrible.

    as for why there were trends in bgs to begin with, the only explanation i can think of is mentality formed among the years in both factions. all bgs are symmetrical enough that a 1% delta in w/l ratios would still be a bit much solely because of it.
  1. Stormykitten's Avatar
    Mean call to arms conflicting with my IoC blacklist!

    Honestly though, ioC would probably be a lot of fun as a 10-15 player Bg. It's just a complete fail with 40 people tho. Actually, i don't think the map is that far off being a nice world zone, but it's totally not suited for complete pugs, you don't even have the same realm recognition fallback of TB-esque battlefields to fall back on most of the time :P
  1. Rekx's Avatar
    Oh look, its pretty close, but slightly horde dominated except for AV and IOC. who would have thought AV favors alliance.. o right. people have been saying that since its release but nah.. lets NEVER fix AV. IOC.. not sure what to say of the huge disparity there. I think thats more along the lines of stupid horde always running for the sieges and no one stops the glaves or catapults.
  1. Sesethi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Khwaj View Post
    lol, giving reason why IoC/AV should change/remove with your left hand while trying to deny the underlying reason is you want the advantage in ALL bgs with your right hand
    its not like alliance can black list the other 9 bgs

    alliance - 2 bgs
    horde - 9 bgs
    oh yea... the win disparity is sooooo great that you actually need to blacklist the other 9 right ?
  1. Ispamx's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekx View Post
    Oh look, its pretty close, but slightly horde dominated except for AV and IOC. who would have thought AV favors alliance.. o right. people have been saying that since its release but nah.. lets NEVER fix AV. IOC.. not sure what to say of the huge disparity there. I think thats more along the lines of stupid horde always running for the sieges and no one stops the glaves or catapults.
    I wouldn't call winrates up to 68.3% slightly dominated, Horde flat out smash Alliance in every battleground except Warsong Gulch which I would call slightly dominated. But no, lets complain about the two battlegrounds Alliance win and how they need to be rebalanced. Horde can just blacklist those two and go win like 60%+ of their battlegrounds, Alliance can only blacklist 2/9.
  1. Tommassive's Avatar
    IoC is still broken. At least you can blacklist two. The only real fix is mixed factions BGs, which is what should happen.
  1. Austilias's Avatar
    Those AV/IoC statistics are totally not surprising. That doesn't stop AV from being my favourite BG though, and i'm looking forward to Ashran a hell of a lot.
  1. mmoce1e4d9dec7's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ispamx View Post
    But no, lets complain about the two battlegrounds Alliance win and how they need to be rebalanced.
    So we should have one BG that favours Alliance by design (AV) .. because they can't win other battlegrounds by properly working as a team?

    What does say about Alliance players?
  1. Khwaj's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sethorian View Post
    oh yea... the win disparity is sooooo great that you actually need to blacklist the other 9 right ?
    horde 1 - bl av/ioc
    horde 2 - bl av/ioc
    horde 3 - bl av/ioc
    etc


    ally 1 - bl temple/ab
    ally 2 - bl sota/mines
    ally 3 - bl eots/deepwind
    etc

    get the picture?
    horde have it ez to bl the 2 ones they lose more often in hence the disparity
    allies have to choose 2 from a group of 9 and they are not going to choose the same
    overall the stats will be a bit more even cos of that factor

    lets swap it around and there was 9 40m bgs and only 2 10/15m bgs total, which 2 40m would you bl list?
  1. Maconi's Avatar
    60/40 isn't a bad ratio at all (although the fact that it favors the Horde more often than not is odd). Blizzard would be the most amazing designers/developers EVER if they managed to pull off a consistent 50/50 (that's not realistic though).

    The 3 BGs that need to be looked at/rebalanced are obviously Alterac Valley, Isle of Conquest, and Strands of the Ancient. That large of a disparity shouldn't be acceptable.
  1. BobAwesome's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by orangelemonrain View Post
    Interesting to note that the old stats show horde having a huge win ratio over alliance in IoC though if recent memory serves me no changes to that BG have been made.
    Alliance discovered that the docks flag is closer to them than it is to the Horde.
  1. Levit's Avatar
    Really guys....Alliance only wins AV and IOC and you are already saying they need to fix it because it's not fair. So basically horde players wont be happy until they dominate all battlegrounds?
  1. Lastgope's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Levit View Post
    Really guys....Alliance only wins AV and IOC and you are already saying they need to fix it because it's not fair. So basically horde players wont be happy until they dominate all battlegrounds?
    No LEARN TO READ or atleast LEARN TO STATISTICS.

    The other 9 BG's are closer to the dream 50/50 Ratio, so close that there are probably other factors involved, like Racial's or Playerskill. Than look at the 40 Man BG's.

    Can you see the difference?
  1. dustdog's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Godric View Post
    It's interesting to note how many horde players will complain about the 40 mans but don't seem to have a problem with winning the majority of everything else.

    When I saw the stats I just knew there would be a slew of omg alliance zerg type comments, even though the 2011 figures show horde dominating IoC and being much closer in AV. Arguements of convenience, meow.
  1. Bloodbath234543's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Khwaj View Post
    lol, giving reason why IoC/AV should change/remove with your left hand while trying to deny the underlying reason is you want the advantage in ALL bgs with your right hand
    its not like alliance can black list the other 9 bgs

    alliance - 2 bgs
    horde - 9 bgs
    You are missing the point, a LOT of Alliance only queue for IOC and AV because its a steamroll when half of the opposing team are bots, I dare you to roll a 90 on horde and queue IOC so you can watch 10-20 people every game mount up at the beginning, pile up into a ball and run continuously to mid then graveyard run the rest of the game because they are all using the same program. Never again will I ever join that madness, if you dont blacklist then all you get is IOC and AV, I shit you not... every game... If Blizz removes blacklisting and all that pops is AV and IOC over and over again, ill just selectively queue and pass on insta queues with 90% losses for 50 honor.
  1. D-Throes's Avatar
    lol at butthurt horde players crying for a fix av and ioc, meanwhile they praise themselves for dominating the other bg no problem haha cool story...
  1. mmoce1e4d9dec7's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by FmDarkslayer View Post
    lol at butthurt horde players crying for a fix av and ioc, meanwhile they praise themselves for dominating the other bg no problem haha cool story...
    Horde dominates all mirror maps.

    What does that say about Alliance players?
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