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Armory Stats - Heroic Siege of Orgrimmar Class Representation
Today we are taking a look at class representation for characters that have killed a Heroic Siege of Orgrimmar boss at least once. There is no date restriction this time, so the sample comes from ~8.8 million characters and ~3.2 million accounts. Keep in mind that the sample size for Heroic Garrosh is less than 10,000 characters, so it is going to vary more than the larger samples.

We looked at the same kind of thing back in Catacylsm for Heroic Madness of Deathwing if you are interested in seeing how things changed.

When there is time, we can also look a this data by item level, Normal Siege of Orgrimmar kills, or several other factors. You can leave suggestions for future stat posts in the comments!

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Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Classes
hardest thing I do as a RL is helping healers know theyre doing a good job / how to improve. New tool to help eval in #warlords?
We agree that healer performance is difficult to evaluate. Do you have any suggestions for what would help? (Celestalon)

The data! Malk: http://t.co/G4iPvoEKZG, Jugg: http://t.co/XLpkWwuQfv, Sha: http://t.co/rkYaZz8veE, Thok: http://t.co/MJFtXssXlR
Compare All Parses to Top 100. Shadow is deceptively hard to play optimally. Single target is low average, but high potential. (Source)
You must have some very hidden numbers, hunters were beating Spriest on many fights before 6%? buff ask most raiders 1/2
We balance around more than just single target DPS. (Source)
I think that's the summary of this conversation. Many Shadow priests value ST damage above all else. Considering changes for WoD. (Source)
That's just preposterous. Shadow playing perfection with miraculous RNG does not have the potencial of mage/lock
I agree. That's an Arcane/Warlock problem. (Source)
No it's not. It's a rogue/hunter/mage/warlock/shaman/druid problem. Shadow is simply not playable on e.g. H malkorok.
And we disagree. Your damage is lower than average, but not crippling so, and your utility is higher on that fight. (Source)
Not the case for any other spec. They all have good and bad fights, sure, but shadow has 2 good, 10 bad and 2 unplayable ones.
Total hyperbole. They have 3 great, 2 bad, 9 average, damage-wise. Most of those they have very high utility. (Source)

So the solution for Spriest single target is to remove dots from single target...but thats why I play Spriest, to use dots.
The talent you're referring to is not a "solution for Spriest single target". It's an optional different rotation. (Celestalon)

Hi, is there anything still happening with the ability bloat? A good thread on about this- http://t.co/VdfhFUHaKG
Yes. We haven't given specifics, but we're definitely going to be making big strides in combating ability bloat. (Celestalon)
Thanks. Big strides is what lots of specs need desperately. If you had to guess - before WoD or not?
Not. That sort of thing requires significant change, which we save for expansions. (Celestalon)

past comments have said that dps are balanced around that fact. Not sure about tanks.
Str and Agi are balanced once Agi/Int no longer give crit. (Celestalon)

Death Knight (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
could u please fix the deathgrip bug in tolvir and tigers peak finally which is in the game since the start of mop? please
Yes we're working on a fix but it won't be available until our next patch. It is not hotfixable. (Source)

Mage (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
did mages ice lance get -20% nerf? Can you clarify for us in the pvp community?
I've heard reports but we are not aware of any change to ice lance. (Source)

Art
Also, hear desire for Garrison update - not sure when that will happen but it's on my radar. (artofcgrobinson)

Quick question, are druids getting a new aquatic form model in WoD? YES or NO?
MAYBE (Dave_Maldo)

Then why were Undead allowed to be hunters? That makes no sense at all.
At least pick one w/o tons of in-game precedence! P.S. I once tried arguing for undead paladins because SIR ZELIEK. (Dave_Maldo)

must Cloud Serpents shrink character models? Not sure if bug or intended. Would prefer if it didn't. Thanks for reading
Intended. Last-minute solution to realizing they were even more absurdly huge than intended, w/no time to remake saddles. T_T (Dave_Maldo)

PvP
could we see faction specificity removed from random BG's as it has been for RBG? ie Horde vs Horde. Would this improve que times?
It would but one of the high level fantasies of WoW is red versus blue. We're exploring a lot of options now. (holinka)

said new PvP season would last aroun 20-25 weeks. I'd say, around that.
I definitely did NOT say the new PvP season would last around 20-25 weeks. I'd say that's the max length I'd want it. (holinka)
out of curiosity? What is min length of a pvp season that you want.
Ha ha. This is a fun game of release date we're playing. (holinka)
what season will it be in Australia when wod arrives?
Season 16 (holinka)

To add some more detail to the DR category conversations, you won't see things like Silence, Stun, Fear or Mez combined into one category. (Source)
Can you tell us what we might see? Am very excited for streamlining of DR categories
I know everyone wants to know what we're doing, but I was mostly concerned with putting some fears to rest. (Source)
Only hint: Despite his declaration we can't get it right isn't far off with what we're thinking. (Source)
Also we hate the single DR idea. That will not happen. (Source)

Necrotic strike and aura of enfeeble and arcane slow is nerfed without second thought
They weren't nerfed by accident. (Source)
sad about enfeeblement nerf. It's fundamentally different from passively applied effects. Should be treated differently.
If it the argument is it's bad gameplay, I don't think warlocks should be exempt from the change. (Source)

Warriors can use shield wall without equip shield. May we remove the physical punishment of Divine Shield and Hand of Protection?
I don't normally like to compare specs but I hope you can see what a profound difference there is between those spells. (holinka)

so dks lose runic power going blood pres. Warrs lose?
Rage generation (holinka)

Poll: What Class is Your Main Character?
Defining main however you want (best gear, most time spent playing that character lately, or something else), what class are you playing?


Fan Art Update
The World of Warcraft Fan Art Section has been updated with new fan artwork.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Armory Stats - Heroic Siege of Orgrimmar Class Representation, Blue Tweets, Fan Art started by chaud View original post
Comments 84 Comments
  1. Skippy88's Avatar
    Poor Rogues but I still enjoy playing him.
  1. Pacster's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    @Twitter SPriest discussion: It's hilariously depressing to see how Blizzard fights teeth and claw against shadow priest getting proper single target damage. I really wished that one of those Blizzard DEVs was stuck with a shadow on a fight like H-Malkorok, so he can feel how utterly frustrating it can be to be so far behind.
    Yeah, I hoped it would get any better with Ghostcrawler being gone...but actually they seem to have none in their whole team who actually cares for shadows. They seem to check some simulations for what shadows can potentially do if they reset every dot perfectly...but forget completely that humans are no machines(it's not as easy to reset several dots while checking for proccs...as spamming the same 2 spells over and over again not having to care for proccs at all. Yeah, shadow needs more skill, but it's insane if you need supercomputer perfection to be able to almost compete with a faceroll mage/warlock) and that there is a darn lot of RNG in the game if you actually have to move(which hurts shadows pretty hard and which you can not simulate).
    If you tell them they they start to argue about utility. Too bad that there is NO fight in the game where you really NEED that utility(which got decreased with every second patch anyway)...all you need is dps. I have never been in any discussion where I heard the sentence: "Let's take the shadow, he got more utility!". Even in PvP it's just "target the shadow...he is the easiest to down and can't do anything while under fire and moving!". They always sound like shadow is the ONLY in the game with any utility....

    Sometimes I think they just check how many players play a class/specc. If there are many players then the class can't be that bad after all...and they are afraid that even more players would play shadow if he could actually compete with others. As a result: If they would make a demonhunter it's dps/mechanic would have to suck too...cause elseway too many would play it. =)
    Somebody should spread them the news that most players outside the top100 choose their class based on the basic idea behind that class(being able to help the team and still do damage, is an appealing basic idea. Much more so than just being stuck to one role)...and the lore that comes with it(badass driven priest? COOL...). I for one believe that if they would have introduced Illidan-like demonhunters instead of panda-monks and have given them similar skills to monks we would see WAY more demonhunters in the game than we have monks now.

    But what sucks most is the priest community. Whenever you say that the shadow ain't strong enough you can be sure that you will have 5 players posting "shadow is fine. L2p. I don't want it to be easy."(usually by players that have 5 other toons that they play as main whenever they really need some dps). The priest community seems to be much more masochistic compared to others...maybe because it's the only class with 2 heal speccs(which makes it a heal only class in some minds).


    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord Booty View Post
    I was always seeing all types of druids in progression and the shadow priest discussion was funny, who was asking those questions? Our spriest was topping everything for almost every fight. Yeah, it's harder to master, seems most people just haven't.
    Right. Or maybe he had better gear...or maybe you guys just suck? Oh wait...that's not possible...it's the 30k other shadows that got to suck...much more likely than your 5 other dds. ;-)
  1. Rioo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy88 View Post
    Poor Rogues but I still enjoy playing him.
    You have to remember that rogues normally only have one spec represented in a raid, and you don't stack them. You never see 3 rogues in a 10-man, but you might see a guardian druid, a resto and say a balance druid in one. With that said, rogues are really under represented compared to the other pure DPS classes, especially warlock. Poor melee
  1. MrExcelion's Avatar
    Good tier to be playing a Warlock - I remember when they were the second rarest class behind rogues going into DS. This has been the weakest tier of the expansion for Mages - utility wise there's not much reason to go out of your way to stack them since we don't get insane Combusts to brute force fights anymore.

    H-Lei Shen 25 data would probably be really funny because you wanted 2 DKs and 2 Locks for that fight minimum. LS might have gotten some locks to reroll and then stick with them going into T16.
  1. Jichi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrita View Post
    Watching that graphic (and the poll) it becomes clear that Mages need a buff!
    They don't need a buff (their dps is ok). They need new level 90 talents.
  1. MrExcelion's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jichi View Post
    They don't need a buff (their dps is ok). They need new level 90 talents.
    We actually are a bit behind Rogues, Hunters (post hotfix), and Locks atm, but I'm not sure if they're willing to go to the trouble of bumping us a few %. Saw they tweeted a couple weeks ago that the reason Locks are OP this tier is because they overcompensated for UVLS. They're not going to nerf classes though and make heroic progression for guilds harder.

    I did tweet Celestalon about it, so we'll see if anything comes of it. Part of me doesn't think it's a big deal, but another part of me realizes we'll be doing this place for another 6 months at least. But yeah, like others have said, SPs are significantly worse off than the pures, Mages included. I don't want to use the "s word" because of the negative connotations, but the pecking order is reminiscent of when I raided Sunwell with Locks, Hunters, and Rogues (with glaives) at the top, then followed by Mages. To be fair though, Mages were top the majority of T13-T15 so I don't have much room to really complain. It's just that Combust nerf late in the patch cycle that really hurt us the most, so if they un-nerf us I'd say just surgically tweak Combust.
  1. Moradim's Avatar
    statistics like these are stupid cause they dont tell the real story.

    EVERYONE has a prot or holy paladin, how many rets do you see in heroic raiding? now compare their damage to rogues who have "less representation". this is exactly why you cant choose to buff/nerf a class based on representation...you have to look at it by spec.

    reality is, rogues/locks dominate the meters, so you cant make adjustments purely from class representation
  1. Isiildur's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    statistics like these are stupid cause they dont tell the real story.

    EVERYONE has a prot or holy paladin, how many rets do you see in heroic raiding? now compare their damage to rogues who have "less representation". this is exactly why you cant choose to buff/nerf a class based on representation...you have to look at it by spec.

    reality is, rogues/locks dominate the meters, so you cant make adjustments purely from class representation
    The reason locks are OP is that they bring utility that no other class can hope to bring, those being Demonic Gateway and healthstones. Having Demonic Gateway available can drastically alter how you approach a fight and Healthstones are quite possibly the best raid cooldown available. Blizzard's refusal to give these abilities to other classes in an age of utmost homogenization is ludicrous, especially with statements like "We don't see many raids called due to lack of cookies." Mages could easily have their refreshments converted into a healthstone analogue, especially since they have barely any utility to speak of.

    On top of this, they have 2 of the highest specs available in game, one of which is ideal for prolonged 2-3 target fights and the other is ideal for burst-oriented fights plus a pet mass dispel.
  1. Squeezus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Isoge View Post
    Been playing rogue since the beginning of WoW. Bored to death by it right now ever since the oversimplification of talents and no choice whatsoever except for a few really bland, boring ones. MoP was a deathblow to rogues for me so I cancelled my sub. But I won't switch classes. I'll just wait and see if blizz does something right with rogues for once in WoD. If not, I'll just cancel my sub again and wait some more.
    This is a joke, right? Nearly everything you just said is the opposite of reality. Before MoP, there was nearly no reason to ever switch talents. Now it is done every other fight. Rogue utility is pretty nice now as well. When I read things like this it just makes me realize how few people actually understand all of the different tools an options that rogues have now. I constantly hear other raiders surprise when they find out that I can handle a certain fight mechanic in a way that they can't, or didn't think a rogue could. The tools are there, people need to quit being so damn lazy and use them.

    Even the rogues easiest spec is in the middle of the pack as far as complexity goes, and sub is one of the most complex. They are beyond not boring, unless your playing them incorrectly.
  1. Coal's Avatar
    As others have already pointed out, it would be very interesting to see some kind of breakdown by spec if it's even possible. Even MORE interesting to see the breakdown change over time, but that would probably involve too much work if that much data was even available. Some of these classes are more represented because they can fill multiple roles. I think a spec breakdown would be far more useful for many reasons.
  1. Swampmoose's Avatar
    Extremely useless chart unless you start looking into specs. There can be completely even class representation across each of those tiers but if if you have 99% holy priests vs 1% disc, or 99% resto druids vs 1% feral, you have serious issues within the class that are not displayed in a chart like this.
  1. rhoark's Avatar
    I find it interesting that most of the classes move towards the mean 9% representation as they approach H Garrosh, except DK's and Hunters start below average and move further down, while priests start above average and move up. That gives some actual insight into raid effectiveness disambiguated from overall class population. (The priest number probably also includes a larger than depicted movement towards disc priests masked by a reduction in shadow.)
  1. Wildspirit's Avatar
    interesting chart but without the spec representation, its not very useful. For classes like warlock, hunter, rogues (only dps) it works but for others who can assume tank / heal / dps, this is kinda meh.
  1. Moradim's Avatar
    "devs balance around utility"

    thats why locks do the most damage and have the best raid utility trololololol
  1. Ater's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    While the information isn't nearly as comprehensive.....
    Thanks a lot mate!
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Swampmoose View Post
    Extremely useless chart unless you start looking into specs. There can be completely even class representation across each of those tiers but if if you have 99% holy priests vs 1% disc, or 99% resto druids vs 1% feral, you have serious issues within the class that are not displayed in a chart like this.
    Really most people here can´t do the math anyway. Look at how many people complaining about ´see rogues suck´... when the fact is, probably 2 of their 3 specs are above average in representation. Are rogues 3 times as high as enhance, ferals and ret?

    Not sure I blame MMO-C, but they have a bad habit of putting up graphs that are easy for ´less savy´ people to misinterpret. Probably 75% of the analysis being done in this thread isn´t accurate because the graph doesn´t give them information people think it means.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturnes View Post
    Monks, well nobody rly likes a panda in this kind of games....I hope Blizzard gets a bit mature now...
    Actually, it has nothing to do with monks, since pandas can be many classes and many races can be monks.

    But even if you are talking about monks you are wrong. Sure, monks are lowest, but you have to realize there was no reason to reroll to them this time. In Wotlk, DKs not only started at 55, but they were also fairly OP. Most raiders knew from beta that DKs were going to be OP, sot hey rerolled to them, which was easy considering they started at 55. Monks were never really OP in beta, and they started at lvl 1. So for hardcore raiders, that is a bit of a pill to take to start out so far behind for a class that is not OP. Most serious raiders in MoP just were content to play their mains from last expansion and be ready to raid week one. Considering this is full heroic clears, these are the most extreme raiders, guys that wanted to be fully geared that first week, so didn´t want to have to level from 1.
  1. Mormolyce's Avatar
    Woo least represented class!

    Although I would like to consider all my characters equal really.
  1. Kalisandra's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Isiildur View Post
    The reason locks are OP is that they bring utility that no other class can hope to bring, those being Demonic Gateway and healthstones. Having Demonic Gateway available can drastically alter how you approach a fight and Healthstones are quite possibly the best raid cooldown available. Blizzard's refusal to give these abilities to other classes in an age of utmost homogenization is ludicrous, especially with statements like "We don't see many raids called due to lack of cookies." Mages could easily have their refreshments converted into a healthstone analogue, especially since they have barely any utility to speak of.

    On top of this, they have 2 of the highest specs available in game, one of which is ideal for prolonged 2-3 target fights and the other is ideal for burst-oriented fights plus a pet mass dispel.
    They're also one of the three classes that brings a battle rez. That's another massive reason to bring them. They're mobile, bring raid mobility, bring a unique health buff (soulstones), a very desirable and somewhat class-limited piece of raid utility (brez), and top DPS, oh and they've got good survivability. You'd be insane not to bring as many as you can fit into your raid. Hell, they could have low-average DPS and they'd still be worth bringing (just not worth stacking).
  1. Yavvy's Avatar
    Specs matter. If you're ret, you can go tank or healer. If you're a Rogue, you can reroll. Which is what I had to do. If only Rogues could tank, I'd still be playing that fun class.
  1. rokkitan's Avatar
    Class representation as percentage of total class numbers for normal and possibly heroic kills would also be interesting to see how classes do and if anyone is over/under represented.

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