Dev Watercooler: Pruning the Garden of War
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Development on World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor is progressing well, and we'll soon be ready to enter the first phases of public testing. To help prep you for battle, let’s break down some of the upcoming changes we’re making to stats, abilities, and crowd control for the expansion.

Stat Squish
Character progression is one of the hallmarks of any role-playing game, and naturally that means we're always adding more power for players to acquire. After multiple expansions and content updates, we've reached a point where the numbers for health, damage, and other stats are so big they’re no longer easy for players to grasp. What’s more, a lot of power granularity is tied up in tiers of older content, from Molten Core to Dragon Soul—and while it was once necessary for your character's power to spike up suddenly when you hit level 70, that’s not the case anymore.


In order to bring things down to a more understandable level, we'll be reducing the scale of stats throughout the game and smoothing out those obsolete spikes, so that power scales linearly through questing content from levels 1 to 85. This applies to creatures, spells, abilities, consumables, gear . . . everything. And while that means your numbers for stats and damage are being reduced by a huge amount, the same goes for creatures' health and damage output. For example, a Fireball that previously hit a creature for 450,000 out of his 3,000,000 health (15% of its health) may now hit that same creature for 30,000 out of its 200,000 health (still 15% of its health).


It's important to understand that this isn’t a nerf—in effect, you’ll still be just as powerful, but the numbers that you see will be easier to comprehend. This also won’t reduce your ability to solo old content. In fact, to provide some additional peace of mind, we're implementing further scaling of your power against lower-level targets so that earlier content will be even more accessible than it is now.

We’re also removing all base damage on player spells and abilities and adjusting attack power or spell power scaling as needed, making it so that all specializations will scale at the same rate.

Racial Traits
We want races to have fun and interesting perks, but if some of those traits are too powerful, players may feel compelled to play a specific race even if it’s not really the one they want to play. For example, Trolls' Berserking ability was extremely powerful, and their Beast Slaying passive was either completely irrelevant or tremendously powerful, based on the situation, compared to other racial traits. On the other end of the spectrum, many races had few or no performance-affecting perks. On top of that, a number of racials that currently grant Hit or Expertise will soon need replacing, since those stats are being removed in Warlords of Draenor.


To keep racials more in line with one another, we’ve decided to bring down the couple high outliers, then establish a fair baseline and bring everyone else up to that. We’re accomplishing this by improving old passives, replacing obsolete ones, and adding a few new ones where necessary. Ultimately, our goal is to achieve much better parity among races.

Ability Pruning
Over the years, we've added significantly more new spells and abilities than we've removed, and the game’s complexity has steadily increased. We’re to the point now where players are starting to get overwhelmed, sometimes feeling like they need dozens of keybinds (in a few extreme cases, over a hundred). While the game is loaded with niche abilities that could theoretically be useful in some rare scenario, in reality, many of these are barely used at all—and in some cases, the game would simply be better off without them.

For Warlords of Draenor, we decided that we needed to pare down the number of abilities available to each class and spec in order to remove some of that unnecessary complexity. That means restricting some abilities to certain specs that really need them instead of being class-wide, and outright removing some other abilities. It also includes removing some Spellbook clutter, such as passives that we can merged with other passives or base abilities.


This doesn’t mean that we want to reduce the depth of gameplay or dumb things down. We still want players to face interesting decisions during combat, and we still want skill to matter . . . but we can achieve that without the needless complexity in the game now, and we can remove some of the game’s more convoluted mechanics while maintaining depth and skill variety.

One type of ability that we focused on removing is temporary power buffs (aka "cooldowns"). Removing these also helps achieve one of our other goals, which is to reduce the amount of cooldown stacking in the game. In cases where a class or spec has multiple cooldowns that typically end up getting used together (often in a single macro), we merged them, or removed some of them entirely.

The process of determining which spells and abilities to cut or change is a very complex one—we know that every ability feels vital to someone, and we don't take this process lightly. Even if we ended up cutting your favorite ability, we hope you’ll understand why we did so in the context of our larger goals for the expansion. Ultimately, the point of these changes is to increase players' ability to understand the game, not to reduce gameplay depth.

Crowd Control and Diminishing Returns
One other big takeaway from Mists of Pandaria is that there is currently simply too much crowd control (CC) in the game, especially when it comes to PvP. To address that, we knew that we needed an across-the-board disarmament.


Here's a summary of the player-cast CC changes:

  • Removed Silence effects from interrupts. Silence effects still exist, but are never attached to an interrupt.
  • Removed all Disarms.
  • Reduced the number of Diminishing Returns (DR) categories.
  • All Roots now share the same DR category.
    • Exception: Roots on Charge-type abilities have no DR category, but have a very short duration instead.
  • All Stuns now share the same DR category.
  • All Incapacitate (sometimes called "mesmerize") effects now share the same DR category and have been merged with the Horror DR category.
  • Removed the ability to make cast-time CC spells instant with a cooldown.
  • Removed many CC spells entirely, and increased the cooldowns and restrictions on others.
    • Pet-cast CC is more limited, and in many cases has been removed.
    • Cyclone can now be dispelled by immunities and Mass Dispel.
    • PvP trinkets now grant immunity to reapplication of an effect from the same spell cast when they break abilities with persistent effects, like Solar Beam.
    • Long fears are now shorter in PvP due to the added benefit of a fear changing the players position.

Additionally, we've significantly reduced the number of throughput-increasing cooldowns and procs in order to further reduce burst damage.

Whether your favorite class is losing an ability or taking a hit to its CC potential, we hope this discussion helped you better understand why we’re making these changes. It’s important to remember that other classes will be getting some of their CC removed too. We think this entire package will make exploring Azeroth and PvPing a more enjoyable experience for everyone, and we’re looking forward to having you try them out when we open up the expansion for testing.

In the next Dev Watercooler, we'll explore the changes coming to health and healing in Warlords of Draenor.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Dev Watercooler: Pruning the Garden of War started by chaud View original post
Comments 249 Comments
  1. Xucuroz's Avatar
    Everything sounded pretty good to me. Not seeing the down side that others are?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riddley View Post
    It's sad I thought that the CC announcement would be about how CC is going to be required for the more difficult Heroic Dungeons in WOD. In the same fashion that if you didn't CC in BC heroics or Vanilla you would be screwed. That was a fun dynamic that made dungeons more interesting. All the dungeons blur together when you can just charge through with a tank and can pull everything at once.
    It was only ever a fun dynamic when you had a group that communicated or the right classes on hand. I still remember groups forming with classes such as warriors that had no tradition CC (e.g sheep) what so ever.

    I wouldn't give up hope for that just yet. We've not seen what challenge modes will be like in WoD yet, nor the dungeon heroics.
  1. kamuimac's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hagendaz View Post
    Ability bloat is a real thing, I have so many spells on my bars that I don't use it's just clutter. I may use some of those abilities in some given situations that arises once a week or longer.
    and what u describe is what differes average/bad players from a really good one - a really good one uses most of his abilities nearly all the time in eveyr single possible moment they can be used - average/bad players really uses those 5-6 buttons to complete even full normal modes making life for anyone around him significantly harder without even noticing it -_-

    what u descirbed here is exacty reason why people think and have right that blizzard is dumbing down the game with each patch to cater to mediocrity -_- and such catering to mediocrity will be what eventually will kill of wow - wow will kill itself with time cause of how far away from its roots its going to go into console arcade game direction. u can see it already for few expansions which each of them introduces more and more arcade elements to pve cause "its making game interesting " and its goign more and more away from the roots of being rpg.
  1. Nightstalker's Avatar
    Tauren DPS-Racial.
    Hooray!!
  1. mmoced3a8de52c's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and what u describe is what differes average/bad players from a really good one - a really good one uses most of his abilities nearly all the time in eveyr single possible moment they can be used - average/bad players really uses those 5-6 buttons to complete even full normal modes making life for anyone around him significantly harder without even noticing it -_-

    what u descirbed here is exacty reason why people think and have right that blizzard is dumbing down the game with each patch to cater to mediocrity -_- and such catering to mediocrity will be what eventually will kill of wow - wow will kill itself with time cause of how far away from its roots its going to go into console arcade game direction. u can see it already for few expansions which each of them introduces more and more arcade elements to pve cause "its making game interesting " and its goign more and more away from the roots of being rpg.
    What? so i'm an average player because i don't use underwater breathing on my every rotation as a Lock? these are the kind of spells they are removing...

    This dumbing thing is absolute balls. The mythic raiding, world first brigade will still have the skill to get world first kills and top the DPS charts. These changes hopefully mean the the two scrubs in LFR that were doing 20% of everyone elses damage might be more useful in WoD... people have an issue with that!?
  1. mmoc27cecdbbd7's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rokkitan View Post
    Awful graph. Remove the supposed 90-100 before squish line and it might be possible to see details from levels 50 to 80.
    Well that's not really the purpose of that graph. They made it like that so that everyone would agree with them how outrageous the stats would become. I mean how can anyone not think that with a graph like that.

    I do like the squish though.
  1. Wayne25uk's Avatar
    Only two problems im seeing here is Warriors Whirlwind,us rogues (my main) could disarm them and stop them from doing it,so now they are going to be blades of whirling death with no way to counter it or get away quick?

    Secondly i hope to god they sort out the Priests fears,im so sick and tired of being feared about 4 times in a row and for 8seconds each time,its pure bullshit and totally unfair,no other class gets that with no DR,it should be 8 sec then 6 then 4 then 2 then immune from then on but they seem to be given an advantage and left out of DR rules!
  1. furydeath's Avatar
    Wait so from lv. 99 to 100 we'd get like a 30% damage boost or something with out the squish?
  1. Hagendaz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and what u describe is what differes average/bad players from a really good one - a really good one uses most of his abilities nearly all the time in eveyr single possible moment they can be used - average/bad players really uses those 5-6 buttons to complete even full normal modes making life for anyone around him significantly harder without even noticing it -_-

    what u descirbed here is exacty reason why people think and have right that blizzard is dumbing down the game with each patch to cater to mediocrity -_- and such catering to mediocrity will be what eventually will kill of wow - wow will kill itself with time cause of how far away from its roots its going to go into console arcade game direction. u can see it already for few expansions which each of them introduces more and more arcade elements to pve cause "its making game interesting " and its goign more and more away from the roots of being rpg.
    You may want to understand where I'm coming from before posting. Many abilities I don't use as one spec or the other, you don't use all your abilities all the time I don't for instance use Dark Simulacrum (spell copy) on bosses that cast no spells? or how about death and decay single target, would you prefer I used that at a dps loss? Necrotic strike, the same thing, though it's used in pvp. I son't use Obliterate as unholy but I do as frost, reason being is it's not as effective as scourge strike (in pvp anyways as I PvE as frost). You you saying that's what separates a bad player from a good one then throw out the number 5-6 buttons. They're not taking 99% of your spells away so you may want to inform yourself or use simple logic here. I could lose about 5 or 6 abilities and perform just as well without them. I'd also still be using more than 15 abilities, not counting cooldowns.

    PS. My example of using scourge strike over obliterate is exactly what they're addressing. Since you don't need obliterate as unholy you wouldn't have it as an ability being unholy. The skill level is still there for being, they're just bringing people up higher is "skill" the good people will still stand out, so what's wrong with this again?
  1. shise's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    .... That's it? All that tease for nothing? Damn lol.
    Define "nothing"... ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I usually dislike the changes they do when it comes down to cut spells, skills, etc... but this time around I don't see a "dumb down", as long as they remove spells we barely use. However, I don't like this about removing certain CD's, that can be dangerous so I hope they work it out perfectly fine (from the balance perspective).

    About CC: It came about time. CC in this game is ridiculous, you can be chain CC'ed and there is simply nothing you can really do about it, no matter how skilled you are because, even if you manage to break the chain, another one will come about 30 seconds later and your cd's will be down to survive it.


    Item squish: I am expecting WotLK numbers more or less, so let's see how it ends up. I don't even ask the mto bring us back to 9-12k hp as we had in BC by the end... that would be great to be honest, but that's only my opinion I guess.
  1. mmoc10bda09cc4's Avatar
    When will people understand that they HAVE to do the item squish so the game wont break!

    If you don't know why please don't post stupid comments like " They think we are kids, that's why they are doing the squish"
  1. Baracuda's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by dethrix View Post
    What? so i'm an average player because i don't use underwater breathing on my every rotation as a Lock? these are the kind of spells they are removing...

    This dumbing thing is absolute balls. The mythic raiding, world first brigade will still have the skill to get world first kills and top the DPS charts. These changes hopefully mean the the two scrubs in LFR that were doing 20% of everyone elses damage might be more useful in WoD... people have an issue with that!?
    They're not removing underwater breathing like abilities lol, I think you've misunderstood the ability squish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne25uk View Post
    Only two problems im seeing here is Warriors Whirlwind,us rogues (my main) could disarm them and stop them from doing it,so now they are going to be blades of whirling death with no way to counter it or get away quick?

    Secondly i hope to god they sort out the Priests fears,im so sick and tired of being feared about 4 times in a row and for 8seconds each time,its pure bullshit and totally unfair,no other class gets that with no DR,it should be 8 sec then 6 then 4 then 2 then immune from then on but they seem to be given an advantage and left out of DR rules!
    Bladestorm has removed and made you immune to disarm for some time now.
  1. Scendera's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    (I have seen some very good reasons for an item squish. This is not one of them.)
    I don't think they want to do what Sony did with EQ2 and admit that damage calcs were making the servers stagger. Sony was forthright and handled it by switching from a "many attacks, smaller numbers" to a "fewer but larger, with a higher floor" model by swapping the places of multi attack and dps in stats weighting. It was for the most part a rather elegant solution to a real problem.

    I don't have much hope at all for this to be as well thought out and well executed as the EQ2 change was, but we'll see.
  1. mmoc7f25e17046's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    Are people serious? Do people ACTUALLY think this is the full extent of the massive info dump? Celestalon said it was 33 PAGES. You'd have to be blind if you think this is the ENTIRE 33 pages of info. Also, do people not know how to read? Literally earlier TODAY on MMOC's front page, they said there would be a SECOND blog post. If you're complaining about this, you clearly don't know how to read or comprehend, because basically anyone could tell that this is the START of the info dump, not the entire info dump.

    Also, lol at people complaining about button reduction. Because it was SUPERHARDCORE, INTELLIGENT gameplay to macro Skull Banner and Recklessness into one button. Blizz decides to put those two abilities together into one button, so it's literally the exact same as how people use it now? BLIZZ Y U DUM DOWN GAME.
    I generally don't quote entire posts... And I generally don't "second" them for the purpose of more people reading them but I'm going to make an exception today:

    Second.
  1. Adramalech's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliok View Post
    He also tweeted a follow-up. I think he's serious.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    (Remember, no more haste breakpoints!) Touch of Elune, a new passive which grants 1% Haste at night, 1% Crit during the day. (Source)
    Suddenly, all the people calling "FAKE!" on the leaked racials thread feel like a massive hammer was just dumped on their heads.
  1. CaptainArlong's Avatar
    Flip-flop-flip-flop-flip-flop

    I'm fully expecting them to announce they're re-doing the talent system next.
  1. mmoc7f25e17046's Avatar
    Two reasons for an item squish:

    - numbers getting too huge that a computer can process them effectively, making the servers handle much more workload, thus laggy and useing them up faster

    - do you see this gigantic spike in power from level 90 to 100? that's like 5 times the power we have now. Can you imagine tanks haveing around 6 million health? Or hiting 6 digits with dots? Well, I can, but it would look extremely silly
  1. Deathgoose's Avatar
    One of the lines that made me curious was:
    It's important to understand that this isn’t a nerf—in effect, you’ll still be just as powerful, but the numbers that you see will be easier to comprehend. This also won’t reduce your ability to solo old content. In fact, to provide some additional peace of mind, we're implementing further scaling of your power against lower-level targets so that earlier content will be even more accessible than it is now.
    Scaling against a lower level target with an actual level makes sense, sure. But how do you scale against a "older content" ??? Boss that is always considered "[Player Level] + 3"?

    I would imagine they will recognize this obvious oversight, but I'm curious how it will be handled.
  1. mmoc894395812b's Avatar
    Atleast give us Feral Druids our instant cyclone back then if it can be dispelled now too. I mean, hardcasting a clone for it to be dispelled is not really worth it.
  1. Farabee's Avatar
    I really hope they don't get rid of Diplomacy for humans.
  1. mmocd841b653eb's Avatar
    I understand why the squish is happening, you can't increase things exponentially indefinitely, I have no issue with that. MY problem is that beyond that, and beyond the simplifying of abilities, they've stated here that they're making pre-90 content "even more accessible" which means DUMBING DOWN by anybody's reckoning.

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