MMO-Champion - Armory Stats - Siege of Orgrimmar Progression, Blue Tweets, DLC #439
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Armory Stats - Siege of Orgrimmar Progression
Today we are taking a look at the Siege of Orgrimmar progression of players in each difficulty. Now that achievements are account wide, we can group characters by account and get an idea of what percentage of players (not characters) have defeated a boss on any difficulty at least once, based on progression data.

The data used today is a sample made up of 7.3 million characters from 2.3 million accounts, with at least one character active after March 15. The sample is slightly biased, as players who are not in a guild are much less likely to appear in our sample.

The second chart uses the number of players that killed Immerseus in each difficulty as the base of participating players for that difficulty. Each difficulty can be toggled on and off by clicking the name in the legend.

We looked at per wing stats in December 2013 and per boss stats in January 2014. You can leave suggestions for future stat posts in the comments!

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Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Classes
You make a new toon, what spells/abilities do you use pre-level 15 when you choose a spec?
You learn non-spec-specific spells/abilities at various levels, just like today. That's no changing. At lvl10, you choose a spec. (Celestalon)
"Abilities have been reshuffled for a smoother leveling flow" When do we get at peak at this?
That tends to happen later in the development process. (Celestalon)

Seems hard to hold easy and hard at opposite poles with the bored wanting more challenge and frustrated less
We find it good for the game to provide a variety of specs that feel different. Difficulty is one huge difference (Celestalon)
Players who really want a challenging rotation are drawn to specs like Feral or Subtlety. (Celestalon)

Hunter (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
Birthday presents for Hunters! Currently planning to replace Flaming Shots, return Rapid Fire to Marksmanship, and add Bear Trap to Survival (Celestalon)
Don't forget to replace focusing shot too. It's even worse than flaming shots in my opinion. BOOOOORING.
From playtesting, it's far from boring; it has a significant impact on your rotation, has a high skill cap. (Celestalon)
I just don't understand how aimed and powershot can do massive damage, but then focusing does terrible dmg with a longer cast.
You seem to be completely ignoring the focus regen, or brushing it off like it's irrelevant. It's really really not. (Celestalon)

Mage (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
The devs chose to make mana a non-issue in MoP. Why the change of heart now? I miss old Arcane....
Which Arcane variant did you like? I liked Cata, personally, it was simple but felt unique. (Muffinus)

Monk (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
as a MW, will I want to fistweave on mythic progression on a regular basis, or only on niche situations?
Could be either, depending on how you want to fill out your guild's healing strategy. (Celestalon)

BM 4 Chi Explosion is a waste defensively (+8.3% chi effic.), vs. 3 CE (+22.2%). Using it only with 3 intended part of rotation?
What are you measuring? (Celestalon)
But in general, if you don't benefit from the AoE, you should prefer to do 3-Chi CEs. 4-Chis aren't a total waste though. (Celestalon)

Chi serenity sounds bad for WW to me because impossible to avoid energy capping. Would be better w/shorter CD/Duration.
It's tuned assuming that. (Celestalon)

Are there any plans to address the fact that zen sphere is completely unusable except in the most fringe situations?
Tuning phase is still yet to come. Yes. (Celestalon)

Priest (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
Another little birthday present for SPriests... Glyph of Mind Harvest: Your first Mind Blast against each enemy generates 3 Shadow Orbs. (Celestalon)
I'll take it. Mandatory though, and that's not good. Might as well give us astral communion-esque something.
Aye, we're still debating the mandatoriness of it; may make it a Draenor Perk instead. (Celestalon)
Yet you make a flash of light perk for retribution paladins. #Balance #Useful #Idonteven
Basically all DPS have a couple defensive perks, such as that. (Celestalon)

In WoD will Shadow Orbs decay out of combat like Holy Power and Chi? Glyph of Mind Harvest makes me believe they will.
Yes, though slowly. (Offhand I believe it's 20sec til it starts decaying, then 5sec per. Something close to that.) (Celestalon)

Rogue (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
To be clear, Hemorrhage is no longer part of Sub rotation, except when Backstab is not possible?
Correct. (Celestalon)

Rolling Hemo bleed will break Backstab? http://t.co/EhMZdSRfxm
Backstab > Hemo, other than from the front, or if backloading damage is more useful than frontloading (very rare). (Celestalon)
Which means sub from the front < everyone else, while sub from the back = everyone else, wonder why so few play sub pve....
The skill difference between players will easily overshadow the miniscule difference between front and side/back. Sub is *hard*. (Celestalon)
Help me understand the feral/Subtlety distinction on this one. Is retaining positionals literally about *difficulty*?
No. (Celestalon)

Is difficulty considered a defining part of a spec and if so how do you balance damage for a more difficult spec?
Yes, and it's difficult. (Celestalon)
Is the more difficult spec balanced to a different (slightly higher) point to compensate?
In some extreme cases, yes. Emphasis on 'extreme' and 'slightly'. (Celestalon)
Based on your statements about subtlety being hard am I correct in assuming sub has a **SLIGHTLY** higher balance point?
Yes. However, much of that is lost in raid encounters, where it's slower to target swap, ramp up, etc. (Celestalon)

can you explain me why sinister calling is nerf for wod?
Getting stat balance in the right ballpark. Not a nerf to the spec's performance. (Celestalon)
puncturing wounds was delete for mop, can you revert this change please? No more critical from agility sound like a huge nerf
Absolutely nothing, and I really mean nothing, that you see in datamining should be considered a nerf/buff to spec performnce (Celestalon)
ok, and what about energy regen? you guys wants rogues and ferals more dynamics, right?
What do you mean by "dynamics"? (Celestalon)
I mean less passive, less dependant of autoattacks.
Ferals' autoattack damage is already quite low. Rogues varies a bit by spec, sometimes a little high, but not hugely so. (Celestalon)

On that note, what was the intent behind this? Rogues have no AoE way of spreading poinsons save for FoK.
FoK (or Blade Flurry) work quite well for that. (Celestalon)

Shaman (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
One last birthday present. The TBD Shaman Draenor Perk... Now "Unleash Elements also increases movement speed by 30% for 4sec." (Celestalon)
Is that going to be available to all 3 specs?
Still discussing it. That TBD Perk was just for Ele/Enh, but we see the value of it for Resto, of course. (Celestalon)

Will Elemental retain its 'niche' of cleave 3-5 targets or are you moving in a different direction?
Yep, not planning to change that. (Celestalon)

Character / Items
As someone who loves transforms e.g deviate delight/orbs. Is it possible their effects persist through Shaman Ghost Wolf?
Maybe. We're working on this. (Celestalon)

Don’t think that much would change in the intervening 8 weeks…
In 6.0, Cloud Serpents no longer require Cloud Serpent Riding. (WatcherDev)

Warlords of Draenor Stats
..inue and in the same way, how will it work with starsurge procs (moonkin)or hot streak (fire mage)? Potential problems there.
MSs don't trigger procs unless explicitly called out, and I don't believe we're making either of those trigger from MSs. (Celestalon)
Can CCs with dmg components MS? (i.e. If I Combustion MS, will it DR the stun? Does it overwrite the dot?)
Damage can multistrike. Debuffs cannot. (Same as crit) (Celestalon)

If we get a multistrike with Templar's Verdict will the multstrike copy also trigger mastery damage like the original? cont...
It only goes one-way, though I don't recall which one offhand. I think its "Mastery can MS, MS can't Mastery". (Celestalon)
So, TV for [x] can MS for [x/30] and both can trigger Mastery, which can both MS? Would make more sense just with TV MS imo.
No. TV for XTV-MS for 0.3*XMastery for YMastery-MS for 0.3*Y. (Celestalon)

Is the Multi Strike Stat going to break cc such as polymorph or will it be "smart"?
It isn't a cleave (holinka)

Raid Finder and Heroic Dungeons
b/c the tops can't enjoy game by seeing LFR peeps in tier gear. They've hate it even existing.
It's unfortunate that's the perception. Some players might feel that way, but certainly not the ones we listen to. (WatcherDev)

LFR changes will gate raiding away from avarage players and return it to a toy for elite players only. Thanks for nothing
Not sure I follow. Warlords makes "organized" raiding more accessible than ever. And LFR is still there with epic loot. (WatcherDev)
"Organized" raiding is still not a thing for many of us - LFR *is* our endgame. And the so-called epic loot won't be tier loot.
True, no argument from me there. Was just missing the "no tier in LFR" = "raiding now a toy for elite players" connection. (WatcherDev)

LFR Loot better or equivalent to Heroic Dungeon loot? The watercooler post didn't specify.
.6.0 LFR ilvl is between Heroic dungeon and Normal raid, same as today. (WatcherDev)
Meaning for alts of Flex/Mythic/Heroic raiders it will still be a wanted road to take gearing up.
There are other sources of catch-up gear. And we'll tune the first Normal raid tier around having Heroic dungeon gear. (WatcherDev)
Was MSV 10N tuned for 463 gear? Looking for a frame of reference.
It was. But MSV 10N was tuned at a level that we'd call Heroic in 6.0. That was part of the point of the blog. (WatcherDev)
Wait, does this mean we can still do Heroic in WoD with Heroic dungeon gear like we always did with Normal before?
If you're good enough, sure. But obviously gear from other sources will help. (WatcherDev)

Do calls that LFR gear having a higher iLvl than heroics still makes it part of progression show you you can't satisfy elitists?
Many want us to design for their specific needs. We're not trying to cater to any one group, but rather make a fun, coherent game. (WatcherDev)

Just to clarify: there are still trinkets in LFR, they're just unique, not scaled down versions of the Normal/Heroic/Mythic … (WatcherDev)

is lfr armour unique art or shared with dungeon art?
Different than dungeon art. (WatcherDev)

Hey re lfr and flex options. Says min 10.. How will tanking work? 1 tank min or 2 tanks req?
LFR is still going to matchmake 25-player groups. 2 tanks. Encounter design often fundamentally requires 2 tanks. (WatcherDev)
But if some people drop, the numbers will scale down in the interim while the group waits for people to backfill. (WatcherDev)
. what happens if there is no second tank and ready to pull a boss ?
If there's no second tank and the boss requires 2, then you aren't ready to pull the boss, sorry. (WatcherDev)
On that note - any chance bosses will actually be unpullable if required roles aren't present?
That's an interesting idea - will think about whether that's doable. (WatcherDev)

Is it still planned for H Dungeons to be harder than LFR? If so it seems weird to get better loot, easier.
LFR is gated; Heroic dungeons available day 1. LFR has a weekly lockout; dungeons daily. (WatcherDev)
What do you mean daily? Will we not be able to run heroics several times a day?
You can chain-queue for random Heroic indefinitely, but individual Heroic dungeons have always had a daily lockout. (WatcherDev)

It wasn't fun at all. Heroics were overturned, and groups failed to do lfd heroics. Any plans to try to prevent a repeat of this
Honestly, by not overtuning our dungeons and entry-level raid content. That was a clear mistake in Cata. (WatcherDev)

To remain relevant in my opinion or people will just abandon them, even more with more chances.
If they were equal, THAT would kill LFR. And we don't want to kill LFR. Dungeons will still be relevant for catch-up. (WatcherDev)

So basically for me gearing an Alt, I would prefer to do Herioc Dungeons as my starting point than jump in 2 Normal/Herioc so on
Pretty much. Or you could do LFR. Or you could use loot from other sources in the outdoor world. Whichever you prefer. (WatcherDev)

I will NOT be able to raid in #Warlords now. Thanks for that. Every1 is getting bumped up except LFR raiders. my core fun = gone
Just to be clear, your core fun was collecting class set pieces? Did you stop raiding each tier the moment you got your set? (WatcherDev)
Do you at least understand/care that for many, LFR was the tops and that taking that (tier gear) away feels immensely shitty?
Of course. Faster gearing may ease that a bit, but we know that we have to make up for the loss elsewhere. (WatcherDev)

PvE
Will in-game cutscenes like the lei shen bridge be exclusive to normal/heroic/mythic in WoD raiding?
No. Though only Normal/Heroic/Mythic raiders will get a working skip button. (I kid, I kid.) (WatcherDev)
You're intended to experience the full story in LFR, except maybe the odd heroic bonus boss. (Muffinus)
Awesome I hated the fact that only normal+ got to see cutscenes or exclusive bosses ._.
Bridge cutscene missing from LFR was never a deliberate intent - just a side-effect of how we broke the raid up into discrete wings (WatcherDev)

To commit full time to raiding just because yall want to listen to the forum neckbeards will be terrible.
A core premise of our changes is that flexible+cross-server+Group Finder makes organized raiding accessible without a commitment. (WatcherDev)
That simply is wrong. Even with flex, you need a core group and a schedule.
Why? If you can search for or form a raid at any time of day with a region-wide browser, you can do it on your schedule. (WatcherDev)
why will PuGing thru this tool be better than LFR? Harder content exacerbates issues with PUGing, doesn’t solve it
A lot of LFR's social issues flow from lack of structure. Leader running the group vs. chaos and votekicking. (WatcherDev)

Meanwhile gear imbalance is so gigantic that with my boosted green weapon tanks outdps me even when the stars align.
Weapons in particular are both a bit too meaningful and too hard to get currently, not going to argue there. (WatcherDev)

How will normal/heroic raid access be in Wod? Will it be wing based menu-teleport like flex today or walk through a door?
Walk through a door, but the layouts themselves will be much less linear so you can pick what your group wants to do. (WatcherDev)
Glad to hear! So I assume we will be able to save lockouts to continue next week, differently flex is today, right?
Yes, you'll be able to extend raid lockouts if you like. (WatcherDev)

So if we are at 12/14 HM in SoO and want to kill the 2 last bosses for loot, we have to do EVERY boss in NM before?
From the blog, "Less linear layouts and shortcuts that allow experienced groups to skip to certain bosses..." (WatcherDev)
Previously I heard one needed to clear all wings of Blackrock Foundry before facing Blackhand ALA Naxx, no longer case?
You do, but imagine if killing each wing boss X times lets you forge a key that unlocks Blackhand's door. (WatcherDev)

Was MSV 10N tuned for 463 gear? Looking for a frame of reference.
Mists lacked a true "entry-level" organized raid difficulty at release. Warlords will have one. (WatcherDev)

Watercooler doesn't specify whether people are saved to a single Mythic (or even Heroic) RaidID for the week (or reasons)
Mythic raid locks will work exactly like Heroic locks did in Mists and prior - a single fixed ID and lock. (WatcherDev)

Are we (raid leaders) still going to be able to choose between personal and regular loot options on new normal/heroic?
That's the plan. (WatcherDev)

Actions speak louder than words. Your actions say you're trying to kill lfr. What reason will there be to run it.
The exact same reasons that exist today: Seeing the content, getting some of the best loot outside of organized raiding. (WatcherDev)

will be Normal T18 better than Mythic T17? It sucks to upgrade max difficulty gear with items you'll use for few days
No, just as Flex T16 was not better than Heroic T15. A Mythic raider should begin with Heroic of the next tier. (WatcherDev)
actually Heroic T15 was item lv 535, while Flex T16 was item lv 540. That's the reason of my concern.
Upgrades changed things a bit. Functionally Heroic raiders had 543-549 gear going into T16. In any case, T18 Mythic > T17 Norm (WatcherDev)
Did you say that backwards? (Point is that T17 Mythic won't be ugprading into T18 Norm?)
T18 Mythic item level is greater than the item level of T17 Normal. (WatcherDev)
Going by his response earlier, T17 Mythic>T18 normal.
Blarg, sorry, many tweets. Yes, T17 Mythic higher item level than T18 Normal. (WatcherDev)
Though technically my first statement was also true.... (WatcherDev)

I find it hard to get flex grps. Get 1 maybe every 2 weeks or so. Flex matching is bad. LFR is only reliable raid
It wasn't designed explicitly for PUGs but it absolutely is puggable. It's a social problem. (WatcherDev)
Group Finder will help a lot with this - you can make your own group with minimal fuss, and set your own req (WatcherDev)
And yes, Group Finder groups can and will advertise their loot type, and you can choose or avoid them accordingly. (WatcherDev)

the problem is, if you give exclusionary tools to the players many don't even get a chance to even try.
One of our main goals and challenges in designing Group Finder is to allow people to find like-minded allies. (WatcherDev)
What are you doing to prevent players from having silly reqs like today 560+ to do normal SoO.
1) You can't make a group whose req you don't meet yourself. 2) People with lower reqs will have groups that fill. (WatcherDev)

This is all I wanted to know, but will there be any safeguards to prevent changing loot type mid-raid to avoid griefing?
You won't be able to change loot rules while an encounter is in progress. (WatcherDev)

Personal loot brought a breath of fresh air and new life to pug raids, I feel making it optional will hurt more than help.
Why? Personal loot is great for PUGs. Terrible for F&F groups that want to share with friends. A choice makes sense. (WatcherDev)
Why is personal loot bad for F&F? If my raid team has more mail or plate than leather, personal loot seemsbetter
Then that option is available. But being able to pass loot around to those who most need/want it adds a lot. (WatcherDev)

Another interesting question - if 24/25 have run, is there a bare minimum of loot drops?
There is not. In that case, you might get zero drops. Obviously that's an extreme edge case. (WatcherDev)

any word on allowing players to solo queue or small group queue for older lfrs for transmog purposes?
Looking promising that we'll be able to do that for Dragon Soul and all 5.x LFRs at level 100. (WatcherDev)

Battlegrounds
Concerned new random gear boxes will make me lose slots in my 2k+ teams because i was unlucky with boxes. Plans to address that? ty
The boxes have some degree of bad luck protection on them, especially the gold ones. (holinka)

Good question. Does the box open immediately after a BG is done or can I save opening it, even?
Would like to avoid bags but there might be technical limitations. Sorting that out. It will obey loot spec (holinka)

Will the strongboxes be available while leveling through BG's or is this a Max Level only reward?
it will be similar to the bags you get from dungeons (holinka)

will we be flooded with starter gear from strongboxes long after we have any use for it, or are boxes ‘smart’?
Possibly, but you know, you can DE it, or vendor it for gold. OMG what gold from PvP?! (holinka)

Because PvP Players have no good way to make gold.
there will be a way for PvPers to make gold through item acquisition in Warlords (holinka)

What's the feedback been like regarding bonus PvP loot roll on RBG win? I think it's a great idea, but a lot seem to disagree.
People that don't like to do RBGs are unhappy. Some concern that people won't bother if they don't get something. (holinka)
its too time consuming for a roll... esp if you lose a few in a row and have multiple alts.
I'm never sympathetic to concerns about time commitment to gear out an alt. Gearing is your primary progression. (holinka)

Will any new bg come in warlords?
In the traditional sense, not at release. Ashran will certainly provide new PvP content. We have some other...plans. (holinka)

For instance, give a player gold medal if he assaulted bases and defended flags, depending on the current amount of bases.
We've explored how we would do this. But it could easily be exploitable. Imagine capture point swap parties. #ohbaby (holinka)
There may be value in monitoring where people are fighting and if they're "doing it right" (holinka)

Won't RBG wintraders be able to farm full gear in week1 in WoD?
you can only earn 3 bonus roll tokens per week (holinka)
but you can farm tokens before the season starts right?
Obviously, we don't want everyone geared in 1 week, so we'll ensure it doesn't happen. (holinka)

So, battle groups where they "lose all the time" will gear far slower now. what is the answer to this?
I'm not sure that's true. Actually, I think the losing team will have more incentive to put up a fight to get a better strongbox. (holinka)
what about instances such as in wsg where if you're being GY camped, you don't have a chance, no matter how good incentive is.
We have to fix that graveyard situation then. (holinka)
Admittedly, the CTF pose the biggest problem for any system like this as they often are the most lopsided score wise. (holinka)

Our intention with bonus rolls in RBGs is to continue to incentivize RBG participation but simplify a confusing conquest cap system. (holinka)
are you guys considering letting smaller groups (say like 5) queue for RBGs? Or would that create too many problems?
We're doing Group Finder instead. Prefer you fill out your group yourself then match you with another group of people. (holinka)

But it still forces people who only like arena to do RBGs to keep on par with gear. Same as cap currently.
We realize that and we're fine with it. We say "reward" you say "forced" (holinka)
I say "forced" with quotes too, but anyone who wants to keep up with gear will be doing RBGs, like it or not.
we like it (holinka)

PvP Gear
Q about PvP itemization. What stats will PvP Trinkets have? What happens to current items? PvP Power and Resilience still exists?
they won't exist but the item squish normalizes the ilevel of a lot of gear in those earlier tiers (holinka)
.Also we plan to keep the damage reduction set bonus on PvP trinkets. We think it works well. (holinka)

will there be a third currency for pvp now that there will be three "levels" of gear available?
.you don't buy the first tier with currency. You get it through strong boxes only. But we'll be generous. (holinka)
sweet, I love the idea of the strong boxes, gives more incentive to do BGs, which I think may help faction imbalance
I think skirmishes will also help BG queue times as it offers an alternative honor gear generator for the side with long queues. (holinka)

Sorry for so consistently sabling ideas, but these are all huge changes that must be polished to a shine.
The ilevel floor is low enough, we're not concerned about green pieces scaling. (holinka)
Also, each season, the PvP gear moves further away from the freshly dinged max player. This has always been a problem. (holinka)

So will Mythic gear be better than Honor gear in instanced PvP?
yes (holinka)
Makes sense, thanks for the clarification.
Sorry to be brief before. Phone. But definitely feel a Mythic raider should be able to step into PvP at a pretty high level. (holinka)

The gear scale up to a minimum ilvl is brilliant... no more skipping out on BGs because my freshly leveled alt's gear is too weak
Yes we felt that even if starter gear was sold for gold at a vendor, some people wouldn't know to do it. Why not make it easy? (holinka)

Are crafted gears gone now then?
Yes crafted PvP starter gear is gone now (holinka)

Will there be anymore scaling in Lowlvl bgs?
We scale your level and your ilevel already. We'll be setting the brackets to 10 level increments as well. (holinka)

Will that extra roll system use a currency separate from the raiding currency?(I would assume so)
The plan was to use the same token. (holinka)

Forcing arena players into RBGs to spend bonus tokens or you will be behind. Rather do a PvE boss for my extra gear, RBG sucks hard
"Behind" for what? For how long? Titles are decided at the end of the season. Most hardcore players finishing gearing fast. (holinka)

PvP
DPS CD's such as Avatar & Holy Avenger, are they going to replace reck/wings, or will it still be stacked in a macro?
We'd like to end macros for this wherever possible. (holinka)

Ever thought about a CAPTCHA before entering a PVP/PVE queue? To prevent bots and AFK players in battlegrounds and instances?
Did some research and found that Captcha's aren't that effective anymore. Still worthwhile to investigate other options though. (holinka)

Not ignoring current season. Exploring PvP only options for underperforming specs. More to come. (holinka)
Can you define under performing? Ele shamans are gods, but they're low on Rep. And Warriors are high on rep, but cleaves are ruined
I would not expect changes to Warriors, Warlocks, Shamans, Mages, Hunters or Rogues. No promises unmentioned classes will change. (holinka)

What is your theory on why their is a disparity in each factions PvP participation? Racials? Style? etc?
Different regions have different faction distributions suggesting it's more social than game related. (holinka)

Could be a terrible idea but, what if we could trade 4k honor for 250 honor bound to guild token? For us who are capped.
I'd prefer we sell BoA Honor boost pots than straight up Honor gifts. Think it's important you have to play the character. (holinka)

OK. So. OK. If I’m fighting some mob on a PvP realm and a player attacks me, my iLevel changes vs. the player but not the mob?
No, it just changes. You'll be stronger vs that mob you were in the middle of killing, too. (Celestalon)
Will the health you gain by the extra stamina be 'empty' health (as usual) or 'full' health?
It keeps the same Health %. So you could go from 50k/100k to 75k/150k, for example. (Celestalon)

Any chance in WoD we'll see honor to conquest conversion in a way similar to honor to justice?
No and you can expect the justice to honor conversion to go away (holinka)

the group finder group is as random as joining a solo queue. So why no solo queue instead?
With Group Finder, there's an intrinsic social dynamic where someone put together the group (holinka)
Leaders have to run a good group, so people stay. People have to behave, or get kicked. (holinka)

Am I not able to invite my friend to pvp with me on ashran if he is on a different server?
You will be able to bring a cross-realm friend to Ashran with you. (holinka)

Will skirmishes only be for solo queing, or will i by able to que Skirmish 2v2 with a friend?
you can queue with a friend as well (holinka)

is there anything stopping people exploiting the PvP ilvl in PvE by having someone follow them and keep them in PvP combat?
nope. Congrats, you have a great friend to do something so mundane for minimal impact (holinka)

Possible to use new PVP loot system to incentive visiting Tol Barad or even Wintergrasp?
the right way to fix Winterrgasp/Tol Barad is to instance them. Realm populations will always be a problem. It is on the backburner. (holinka)

can we please position the PvP-Vendor somewhere easy to reach for WoD. Like the one in Dalaran... I really dislike the current spot
they'll most likely be in Ashran. We want people outside of the capital cities. Big world out there. (holinka)
I dislike having the PvP-Vendor outside the capital because you have to travel all the way back for Enchants/Reforge/AuctionHouse
Reforging is gone and the number of gem and enchant slots have been reduced. (holinka)

UI / Addons
another follow up, was the New BG scoreboard shown at Blizzcon scrapped?
It's still in progress. Probably won't make release. (holinka)

Dark Legacy Comics #439
DLC #439 has been released.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Armory Stats - Siege of Orgrimmar Progression, Blue Tweets, DLC #439 started by chaud View original post
Comments 86 Comments
  1. moveth's Avatar
    Dat Garrosh kill %.
  1. lizon's Avatar
    The Clones are the best part of DLC. >.>
  1. Azahel's Avatar
    That's bizarre.
    From the comments I see on MMO champs forums about how casual wow is now, I thought we'd have many more garrosh heroic kills.
    weird...
  1. niker99's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Azahel View Post
    That's bizarre.
    From the comments I see on MMO champs forums about how casual wow is now, I thought we'd had many more garrosh heroic kills.
    weird...
    SOO hc is easy, but most That plays the game is just bad, face it. and peoples that raid 2 days a week can clear all heroic content so i would call that casual or am i wrong?, u dont have to be close to hardcore to clear all heroic content nowdays,
  1. Arbs's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by niker99 View Post
    SOO hc is easy, but most That plays the game is just bad, face it. and peoples that raid 2 days a week can clear all heroic content so i would call that casual or am i wrong?, u dont have to be close to hardcore to clear all heroic content nowdays,
    Nah HM SoO isn't easy, Unless your getting carried by a group that has SoO on farm. An the percentage of guilds that have SoO on farm is very low.

    I see alot of people completing LFR claiming that the raiding is easy & refuse to try the other difficulties. Unless you have completed HM SoO in the form of progression not buying a clear than you really can't say it is easy. But not every boss is difficult & not every boss is easy either. Its more of a ramp up than what H ToT was.

    Only the people who have actually cleared it for progression have the right to say it is easy or not.
  1. Kiritsugu-Thrall's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Azahel View Post
    That's bizarre.
    From the comments I see on MMO champs forums about how casual wow is now, I thought we'd have many more garrosh heroic kills.
    weird...
    I'm going to be honest, I'm taking a large break until WoD and I have killed Heroic Garrosh months ago. I think the encounter is a complete joke. It's painstakingly awful to swallow that the playerbase is so awful/casual to not have even raised the bar on Garrosh kills. It actually shows you how the MMO genre is a dieing genre for hardcore players.
  1. stupidfish's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbs View Post
    I see alot of people completing LFR claiming that the raiding is easy & refuse to try the other difficulties.
    I am glad they added LFR. A lot of lore is taking place in raids and to me lore is one of the main reasons to play WoW. Just because I don't have the time or skill to raid does not mean I should not experience these world changing events firsthand.
  1. Dundebuns's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Azahel View Post
    That's bizarre.
    From the comments I see on MMO champs forums about how casual wow is now, I thought we'd have many more garrosh heroic kills.
    weird...
    It is casual. People have killed him, difficulty mode is irrelevant. Heroic is for the top echelons, but now EVERYONE has the opportunity to see all the bosses.
  1. Kiritsugu-Thrall's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbs View Post
    Nah HM SoO isn't easy, Unless your getting carried by a group that has SoO on farm. An the percentage of guilds that have SoO on farm is very low.

    I see alot of people completing LFR claiming that the raiding is easy & refuse to try the other difficulties. Unless you have completed HM SoO in the form of progression not buying a clear than you really can't say it is easy. But not every boss is difficult & not every boss is easy either. Its more of a ramp up than what H ToT was.
    Yes it is. It's a complete joke and one of the most boring raid instances I have ever done in this game. It reminds me of Dragon Soul but longer and without a % nerf.
  1. stupidfish's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    but now EVERYONE has the opportunity to see all the bosses.
    And why is that a bad thing? EVERYONE pays the same price for the game, why would you want to take away some content from them?

    If you need to feel superior you can show off your titles, 'Heroic' tagged gear, etc. I don't understand why you would mind that all people get to experience the same content.
  1. Arbs's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    It is casual. People have killed him, difficulty mode is irrelevant. Heroic is for the top echelons, but now EVERYONE has the opportunity to see all the bosses.
    Ya it sucks, the entitled crowd really ruined it their. one thing I always praise that Carbine is doing is the Raiding is only for the people who deserve to get their & have the time for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by stupidfish View Post
    I am glad they added LFR. A lot of lore is taking place in raids and to me lore is one of the main reasons to play WoW. Just because I don't have the time or skill to raid does not mean I should not experience these world changing events firsthand.
    Honestly, my personal opinion has always been if you don't have the time for it than you don't do it. Make the time for it & than get to experience it. The main problem with MMOs & games in general are they are to casual.

    Herioc Raiding is the only difficult part about WoW, which is kinda sad. When the rest of the game used to be atleast somewhat challenging all around.
  1. RoKPaNda's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiritsugu-Thrall View Post
    I'm going to be honest, I'm taking a large break until WoD and I have killed Heroic Garrosh months ago. I think the encounter is a complete joke. It's painstakingly awful to swallow that the playerbase is so awful/casual to not have even raised the bar on Garrosh kills. It actually shows you how the MMO genre is a dieing genre for hardcore players.
    Why, in your mind, does the low clear % on Heroic Garrosh mean that WoW players are awful? The numbers were equally low before the game went "casual." If the MMO genre is in trouble, it was in trouble before it even started to grow in popularity. WoW was what made MMOs mainstream, and in Vanilla WoW like 2% of the game's playerbase even made it into the last tier, and a similarly small number made it into AQ40.

    What I think these numbers should tell you is that even though the game is more accessible than it ever has been, organized raiding is just not appealing.
  1. randprin's Avatar
    is it just me or do those charts not add up?
    the % of players who completed each wing is higher (4-6% depending on the wing) from the % of players that killed last boss in LFR for that wing.

    also, i'd like to point out according to this chart close to half the player base that actually do raids (which, from the start, appears to be 70-75% of the total characters) only plays in LFR, granted some are there for the view and some are probably someone's XX alt, but most are probably loot oriented to some degree, which means the jump to organised raiding in WoD is going to be interesting to say the least.
  1. cptaylor38's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbs View Post
    Ya it sucks, the entitled crowd really ruined it their. one thing I always praise that Carbine is doing is the Raiding is only for the people who deserve to get their & have the time for it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Honestly, my personal opinion has always been if you don't have the time for it than you don't do it. Make the time for it & than get to experience it. The main problem with MMOs & games in general are they are to casual.

    Herioc Raiding is the only difficult part about WoW, which is kinda sad. When the rest of the game used to be atleast somewhat challenging all around.
    Some people actually have lives.
  1. Arbs's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Why, in your mind, does the low clear % on Heroic Garrosh mean that WoW players are awful? The numbers were equally low before the game went "casual." If the MMO genre is in trouble, it was in trouble before it even started to grow in popularity. WoW was what made MMOs mainstream, and in Vanilla WoW like 2% of the game's playerbase even made it into the last tier, and a similarly small number made it into AQ40.

    What I think these numbers should tell you is that even though the game is more accessible than it ever has been, organized raiding is just not appealing.
    I agree with him to an extent, Blizzard is allowing the players to be bad & not want to better themselves they buckle at the knees from the pressure of the entitled crowd that stuff is to hard (when it really isn't) example Cata Heroics. Now it isn't all Blizzard's fault it is also the players fault themselves. But Blizzard should be giving us more challenging content. Like Timeless Isle wasn't challenging, but I do want more mobs that are deadly & can kill you in like 2 attacks if your not careful that are out in the world.

    Bring back some sort of danger like the Fel Reaver in Hellfire or The Storm Giants in Howling Fjord. The World Bosses should also move around the zone not sit in one spot.
  1. randprin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Why, in your mind, does the low clear % on Heroic Garrosh mean that WoW players are awful? The numbers were equally low before the game went "casual." If the MMO genre is in trouble, it was in trouble before it even started to grow in popularity. WoW was what made MMOs mainstream, and in Vanilla WoW like 2% of the game's playerbase even made it into the last tier, and a similarly small number made it into AQ40.

    What I think these numbers should tell you is that even though the game is more accessible than it ever has been, organized raiding is just not appealing.
    actually, as a vanilla semi hardcore raider (my guild was actually working on KtZ before the pre expansion breaks forced us to stop) i can tell you AQ40 and naxx were only limited access due to the tight gear checks, especially resistance fights and fights like 4hm (it took us ages to gear up the minimal 6 warriors with 4pc T3 for that fight, which was one of the reasons we were delayed for so long)

    i argue that WoW has been more lenient with requirements from it's raiders over the years, but i do not see it as a bad thing. let the so called elitist crowd move to the niche games where they can have the difficult raids they crave, and leave us WoW as the mainstream MMO suited for mum and pop with their 12 year old kid to play at.
  1. RoKPaNda's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by randprin View Post
    is it just me or do those charts not add up?
    the % of players who completed each wing is higher (4-6% depending on the wing) from the % of players that killed last boss in LFR for that wing.

    also, i'd like to point out according to this chart close to half the player base that actually do raids (which, from the start, appears to be 70-75% of the total characters) only plays in LFR, granted some are there for the view and some are probably someone's XX alt, but most are probably loot oriented to some degree, which means the jump to organised raiding in WoD is going to be interesting to say the least.
    There won't be a jump to organized raiding in WoD. Blizzard has stated that there is an idea in the community that if the difficulty bar is raised that the players will rise to the challenge (specifically in regard to making the jump to raiding.) but Blizzard's data indicates that this isn't the case. LFR players will likely just stay LFR players, at best some of them will move to Flex.

    With the recruitment standards in most raiding guilds I've seen in recent years it's extremely unlikely that your average LFR player, or even the skilled LFR players with time constraints, will join a raiding guild and actually raid.

    Raiding just isn't appealing for the majority, even when it was the only choice at end game very few people (in the grand scheme of things) moved beyond the first tier. We like to talk about how only 2% of the playerbase ever stepped foot into Naxx, but the number of people that got past razorgore (First boss in the second raid tier.) was also really really low.

    Quote Originally Posted by randprin View Post
    actually, as a vanilla semi hardcore raider (my guild was actually working on KtZ before the pre expansion breaks forced us to stop) i can tell you AQ40 and naxx were only limited access due to the tight gear checks, especially resistance fights and fights like 4hm (it took us ages to gear up the minimal 6 warriors with 4pc T3 for that fight, which was one of the reasons we were delayed for so long)

    i argue that WoW has been more lenient with requirements from it's raiders over the years, but i do not see it as a bad thing. let the so called elitist crowd move to the niche games where they can have the difficult raids they crave, and leave us WoW as the mainstream MMO suited for mum and pop with their 12 year old kid to play at.
    I don't disagree with you.
  1. Arbs's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by cptaylor38 View Post
    Some people actually have lives.
    Umm thats actually a very sad sterotype you know, I'm sure many World First / Hardcore raiders have lives, but they take the time out their day to play & do something they love to do. Doesn't mean they don't have lives. You as a casual player can take 3 hours out of your night 3 times a week & try to progress through the content & still be able to do other things during the day. Some guilds do more & some do even less but that don't mean they don't have lives.

    They just manage their time properly.
  1. chaud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by randprin View Post
    is it just me or do those charts not add up?
    the % of players who completed each wing is higher (4-6% depending on the wing) from the % of players that killed last boss in LFR for that wing.
    Some players don't do LFR and only do higher difficulties, which is where the extra comes from. For example, I have never killed any of the last 2 LFR wings, but I have done them on Flex and Normal, so I don't show up as having participated in LFR.
  1. Snuzzfizzle's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by cptaylor38 View Post
    Some people actually have lives.
    Because raiding and clearing the instance once a week is such a time commitment that you have to be a no-lifer to accomplish that feat.

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