Rob Pardo Leaving Blizzard Entertainment

Originally Posted by Elian

i bet WOW is also Racist because there are no Black people around.

Wrathion? Rings a bell?

He's black, isn't he? Dressed like a classic Moor from North Africa..

Originally Posted by Elian

i bet WOW is also Racist because there are no Black people around.

Apples and oranges...

Originally Posted by Wildtree

I am not even sure if he confuses Jaina with Sylvanas.

Not sure if she has a "Boob window". Not even sure what a boob window is supposed to be, but I guess a "plunging neckline".

But yes: Sylvanas / Alexstrasza & Ysera are obvious fanservice.
BTW: I LOVED the middle Wrath beta version of Sylvanas. Too bad she wasn't final.

The moment a fantasy game has to be politically correct, is the moment when the term "game" starts dying.

People who argue for such, do have serious other issues.

If you want less sexy, go play Disney games.
If you want more sexy, go play Playboy Mansion.
And if that ain't enough, there's porn games too.

There are games for all levels of taste and preference.

If you want anything represented on a politically more correct level, wait until a company makes such game.
But don't expect existing products to get altered to your irrational likings.
You don't change a game to make it fit you. You move on to another game instead.

Originally Posted by Wildtree

If you want more sexy, go visit Goldshire.

Fiexed that for you.

Originally Posted by darkest4

HAHAHAHAH, I can't believe you're linking that bullshit ass polygon article. Fucking social justice warriors man. That was the most ridiculous article I've read in a long time. These assholes trying to make issues out of nothing. He said nothing remotely sexist, the twisting of logic and words to serve a "social justice" agenda is so annoying. I'm so sick of this, getting forced more and more into stuff where it doesn't belong. This is one of the things ruining games journalism.

Blizzard has probably created more female gamers than any other company, they are the only games I play where I know there's going to be a bunch of females also playing. Their woman characters are fleshed out strong characters just like the men, they are far from sexist. Who fucking cares if some characters show some cleavage? Real woman wear cleavage revealing clothes in the real world too, get over it, don't try to force your twisted views on how sexuality is somehow evil forced on woman by men and hardcore middle east like actual sexist demands that all woman are fully covered up at all times so they're not "sexualized", it's ridiculous. The ones being sexist here are guys like this article author, they think it's not okay for females, characters or not, to wear whatever the fuck they want no matter what these SJWs think they should wear. No one here is forcing anything on anyone, don't like the outfits the characters wear? Don't play the game. Seems a lot of woman happily cosplay female Blizzard characters, and that's their CHOICE, not yours.

Games are supposed to be fun and most importantly whatever their creators feel like presenting, not what social warriors say the creators should present based on their own opinions that many people don't share. If a creator wants to go into any particular perceived issue in their work, that's their choice, if they don't that's their choice, and they should never be attacked for it. There's far better avenues to argue these views, can these people get over themselves and go address real problems in the world instead of taking offense to almost everything.

Whether you agree with the article or not, that was the one people where upset about so that is what I linked. And actually I don't have any problem with scantily clad female characters so long as there is the option for non-scantily clad females, and for scantily clad males. So long as it's equal opportunity that's fine and WoW provides that. Of course there's still the argument about the practicality of the armour but that's kind of a different matter. I'd say WoW is one of the better MMO's when it comes to chainmail bikinis anyway, most armour sets are reasonably conservative compared to the stuff in other MMOs.

The main problem is the way the female characters are written. How many of Blizzard's "strong" female characters are actually just all following the same archetype of hardass, slightly emotionally unstable zealot? I count Jaina, Tyrande, Sylvanas, Vereesa, Maiev, Admiral Rogers, Aggra and Aysa to a degree, essentially pretty much every major female character is like that. The only exceptions are the "higher beings" like Alexstraza and Ysera. And most of these characters are also satellites for a male character, no matter their supposed positions of power in the setting. Jaina and Sylvanas to Arthas, Tyrande to Malfurion, Vereesa to Ronin, Maeiv to Illidan, Aggra to Thrall, Aysa to Ji. It's ridiculous. Even if you don't care about women's rights in the slightest I'd hope one would still be against the dull repetitive writing.

Originally Posted by Granyala

Not sure if she has a "Boob window". Not even sure what a boob window is supposed to be, but I guess a "plunging neckline".

But yes: Sylvanas / Alexstrasza & Ysera are obvious fanservice.
BTW: I LOVED the middle Wrath beta version of Sylvanas. Too bad she wasn't final.

I associated "boob window" (never heard that term before lol) with significant cleavage. And on that aspect, Sylvanas and Alextrasza taking the cake. Jaina is rather tame, rather innocently/naive looking.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Fiexed that for you.

I see what I did there........ lmao

Originally Posted by Protar

Whether you agree with the article or not, that was the one people where upset about so that is what I linked. And actually I don't have any problem with scantily clad female characters so long as there is the option for non-scantily clad females, and for scantily clad males. So long as it's equal opportunity that's fine and WoW provides that. Of course there's still the argument about the practicality of the armour but that's kind of a different matter. I'd say WoW is one of the better MMO's when it comes to chainmail bikinis anyway, most armour sets are reasonably conservative compared to the stuff in other MMOs.

The main problem is the way the female characters are written. How many of Blizzard's "strong" female characters are actually just all following the same archetype of hardass, slightly emotionally unstable zealot? I count Jaina, Tyrande, Sylvanas, Vereesa, Maiev, Admiral Rogers, Aggra and Aysa to a degree, essentially pretty much every major female character is like that. The only exceptions are the "higher beings" like Alexstraza and Ysera. And most of these characters are also satellites for a male character, no matter their supposed positions of power in the setting. Jaina and Sylvanas to Arthas, Tyrande to Malfurion, Vereesa to Ronin, Maeiv to Illidan, Aggra to Thrall, Aysa to Ji. It's ridiculous. Even if you don't care about women's rights in the slightest I'd hope one would still be against the dull repetitive writing.

That has nothing to do with sexism, that is just Blizzard's shitty 1 dimensional writing. You could say most of the male characters follow similar archetypes too, they're just shallow characters regardless of sex... WTF.. you're the one being sexist for calling them satellites just because they have relationships to males. Males and females interact in the story, god forbid. Wow. Yea Jaina, Sylvanas, Tyrande, etc totally have not done anything meaningful themselves, you know like lead entire cities or AN ENTIRE RACE and so on, they're just satellites to males because they had relationships with them. Slyvanas is totally a satellite for Arthas even though he hasn't been around in ages.

This is stupid. I'm done arguing with SJWs, literally can't have any discussion about video games on the internet anymore without SJWs hijacking it to push their agendas. You win, every straight man in the world is apparently sexist because they are biologically attracted to boobs and butts and like looking at them when given the chance, every game is made by bigots because it doesn't force in equal representation of males, females, gays, transexuals, otaku, gingers, blacks, asians, old people, babies, soccer moms, chess masters, bodybuilders, mexicans, lepers, christians, muslims, jews, mentally ill, hipsters, furies, bronies, and every other thing that people use to define or group themselves with under the sun. How dare there not be equal representation, gameplay in games shouldn't matter, only social justice.

Originally Posted by Protar

The main problem is the way the female characters are written. How many of Blizzard's "strong" female characters are actually just all following the same archetype of hardass, slightly emotionally unstable zealot? I count Jaina, Tyrande, Sylvanas, Vereesa, Maiev, Admiral Rogers, Aggra and Aysa to a degree, essentially pretty much every major female character is like that. The only exceptions are the "higher beings" like Alexstraza and Ysera. And most of these characters are also satellites for a male character, no matter their supposed positions of power in the setting. Jaina and Sylvanas to Arthas, Tyrande to Malfurion, Vereesa to Ronin, Maeiv to Illidan, Aggra to Thrall, Aysa to Ji. It's ridiculous. Even if you don't care about women's rights in the slightest I'd hope one would still be against the dull repetitive writing.

I'd agree on that point.
I have hope that they manage to develop Yrel in a unique manner, but it might ultimately be beyond their capabilities.
Warcraft always was a sausage fest after all.

And actually I don't have any problem with scantily clad female characters so long as there is the option for non-scantily clad females, and for scantily clad males.

Yes, my shaman mourns the lack of visible male Draenei sixpacs every day. ._.

Originally Posted by Wildtree

Jaina is rather tame, rather innocently/naive looking.

Agreed, which is why I latched on to the ridiculous comment in the first place.

PS: Soridormi > Sylvanas. :P

Originally Posted by Granyala

I'd agree on that point.
I have hope that they manage to develop Yrel in a unique manner, but it might ultimately be beyond their capabilities.
Warcraft always was a sausage fest after all.

Well, I have to agree too....
But, with guys like Metzen and that wanna be metal dude (I forgot his name, the leader of team horde at the bike event) in charge, there's no wonder how bland females are represented. Yet I still just take it as story writing. And I do not expect much from that aspect, since I hardly expect literature prize worthy story telling from a video game.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

PS: Soridormi > Sylvanas. :P

nice catch there.

Originally Posted by Protar

The main problem is the way the female characters are written. How many of Blizzard's "strong" female characters are actually just all following the same archetype of hardass, slightly emotionally unstable zealot? I count Jaina, Tyrande, Sylvanas, Vereesa, Maiev, Admiral Rogers, Aggra and Aysa to a degree, essentially pretty much every major female character is like that. The only exceptions are the "higher beings" like Alexstraza and Ysera. And most of these characters are also satellites for a male character, no matter their supposed positions of power in the setting. Jaina and Sylvanas to Arthas, Tyrande to Malfurion, Vereesa to Ronin, Maeiv to Illidan, Aggra to Thrall, Aysa to Ji. It's ridiculous. Even if you don't care about women's rights in the slightest I'd hope one would still be against the dull repetitive writing.

My God you're reaching. Talk about selective confirmation bias.

Originally Posted by Granyala

Not even sure what a boob window is supposed to be, but I guess a "plunging neckline".

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...CleavageWindow

Plunging neckline is a subclass. (Correction: related trope.)

An example from MoP:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=85835

(On the male version of that item, the exposed skin comes down to slightly below the larynx.)

Originally Posted by Dat Guy

My God you're reaching. Talk about selective confirmation bias.

Name a major female character who isn't either a sweet as sugar princess, probably completely subservient to a male character, or a hardass bitch (who is also probably completely subservient to a male character.), or a deity/demigod.

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The one major female character who's been getting spotlight recently and who doesn't really fit those stereotypes is Moira Bronzebeard. She's probably the best female character in the game at the moment because she's pretty much the only one who's story explores sexism rather than ignoring it (Magni's disappointment at having a girl) and women specific "things" such as motherhood. She's competent without having to made into a kickass warrior, and she's actually morally ambiguous.

Originally Posted by Protar

snip

Yes because we all know medieval history (which a lot of the inspiration to warcraft comes from) had an abundance of female champio-.. oh wait.

Lets also not forget how in the lore night elf society is essentially run by a female majority. But hey, I can start nitpicking on weak male characters to make the same argument from the opposite perspective - oh wait, I forgot sexism doesn't ever apply to males.

Maybe I should argue that blizzard needs more gay characters? I don't think I know of a single one yet. Because you know why? It's pointless, and I'm not so vapid I need that crap to relate to a character to make them more "real". Its a fantasy setting for crying out loud.

Seriously, take this bullshit somewhere else. Its a video game and frankly I'm tired of seeing people wanting every damn minority represented when there really is no need for it.

Originally Posted by UniBlue

Seriously, take this bullshit somewhere else. Its a video game and frankly I'm tired of seeing people wanting every damn minority represented when there really is no need for it.

Just out of curiosity...why does the want of more minorities piss you off so much?

Originally Posted by Osmeric

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...CleavageWindow

Plunging neckline is a subclass.

An example from MoP:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=85835

(On the male version of that item, the exposed skin comes down to slightly below the larynx.)

Things you can learn on the Internet...
Thanks!

Originally Posted by UniBlue

Yes because we all know medieval history (which a lot of the inspiration to warcraft comes from) had an abundance of female champio-.. oh wait.

Its Fantasy. By definition it means its not constrained to reality or history.

Plus there WERE strong female characters back in Warcraft 3. Jaina was competent and level-headed, Sylvannas was a strong and determined warrior, Tyrande was a strong and determined warrior (...and a bit of a moaner who relied on her husband a bit too much later on, but hey) and the primary spellcaster unit for the Alliance faction was female.

Originally Posted by daem

Just out of curiosity...why does the want of more minorities piss you off so much?

It doesn't. I guess by my post you'd be surprised to know I also think sexism and racism are a quite an issue in modern day society.

What I have a problem is that people demand these things by video game companies, and if not given (refer to the recent "incident" with an all male cast in the new AC game) they claim the company in question is being sexist. Which is wrong. I know many people who work in the industry who are offended and upset to be associated as such. Thus the ignorance of "Well why can't they just add a female / black -insert any kind of minority here that I consider underrepresented- to the game? That must mean they're sexist/racist!" - is something that really irks me.

Not to mention I think personally WoW has done a much better job representing females in video games than many other mainstream game titles. Which is why the complaint that they're not doing a good enough job and the word sexist being used frankly offends me. If people want to campaign women's rights or whatever else then this really isn't the place for it. Especially not in this thread since its offtopic to begin with.

Originally Posted by UniBlue

Yes because we all know medieval history (which a lot of the inspiration to warcraft comes from) had an abundance of female champio-.. oh wait.

Well first of all there were just as many women in historic times as there were today and a good amount of women warriors. More than your high school history lessons would lead you to believe. And additionally a lot of women who made the most of their situation and gained power and influence in other ways. But that's kind of a moot point anyway as WoW is really based on every point of history at once a long with a lot that is just pure fantasy.

Originally Posted by UniBlue

Lets also not forget how in the lore night elf society is essentially run by a female majority. But hey, I can start nitpicking on weak male characters to make the same argument from the opposite perspective - oh wait, I forgot sexism doesn't ever apply to males.

So what? How does that actually translate into strong female characters? Just saying "the women are in charge, it can't be sexist!" is a complete copout. Some of the most sexist characters I've ever seen are from The Wheel of Time series where women are mostly in charge.

And just so you know I do think sexism can occur against males, I think it's very often ignored. But let's not pretend that Misandry is an equally pressing matter as Misogyny.

Originally Posted by UniBlue

Maybe I should argue that blizzard needs more gay characters? I don't think I know of a single one yet. Because you know why? It's pointless, and I'm not so vapid I need that crap to relate to a character to make them more "real". Its a fantasy setting for crying out loud.

WoW does need gay characters in my opinion. So yeah.

Originally Posted by UniBlue

Seriously, take this bullshit somewhere else. Its a video game and frankly I'm tired of seeing people wanting every damn minority represented when there really is no need for it.

over 50% of the world's population is a minority? Seriously there is literally no benefit to the video game industry continuing to write female characters so poorly. It's sexist, it results in dull repetitive characters and it alienates a large target demographic.

Originally Posted by Durandro

Its Fantasy. By definition it means its not constrained to reality or history.

Plus there WERE strong female characters back in Warcraft 3. Jaina was competent and level-headed, Sylvannas was a strong and determined warrior, Tyrande was a strong and determined warrior (...and a bit of a moaner who relied on her husband a bit too much later on, but hey) and the primary spellcaster unit for the Alliance faction was female.

Naturally, which why, if you'd read in to my post a bit and not assume things off the bat. You would understand that my point was the devs may have ended up taking more of our history in to account when making the game than they had to.

Also your points regarding strong female characters is something I never disputed. In fact it reinforces my point that warcraft in general is pretty damn good when it comes to sexual bias (because there hardly is any).

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Originally Posted by Protar

So what? How does that actually translate into strong female characters? Just saying "the women are in charge, it can't be sexist!" is a complete copout. Some of the most sexist characters I've ever seen are from The Wheel of Time series where women are mostly in charge.


over 50% of the world's population is a minority? Seriously there is literally no benefit to the video game industry continuing to write female characters so poorly. It's sexist, it results in dull repetitive characters and it alienates a large target demographic.

"the women are in charge, it can't be sexist!" - Just like saying "men in charge means it must be sexist" is a copout, right?

And generally speaking when addressing females in the video game community they are referred to as a minority. Do you dispute that? I don't see how real life has any relevance since your argument is that you were displeased with the female characters. I can make the same argument for my displeasure with some of the male ones but I still don't see how that translates to blizzard being sexist.