Skyreach Dungeon, Mob Tagging Rules, Blue Posts, EU Connected Realms, Finalboss #51

A shame about the tagging. A lot of people seem to be in favor of open tap on the official forums.

Originally Posted by Yavamar

A shame about the tagging. A lot of people seem to be in favor of open tap on the official forums.

There is no reason not to go to shared tagging, all you do with the current system is create trolling and ire as people try to complete quests. I rather walk up and take out this mob with this one guy instead of letting him kill it and having to wait for it to respawn to fight whoever else is there for claim.

Originally Posted by Holybell

There is no reason not to go to shared tagging, all you do with the current system is create trolling and ire as people try to complete quests. I rather walk up and take out this mob with this one guy instead of letting him kill it and having to wait for it to respawn to fight whoever else is there for claim.

All open world tagging would encourage is for me as a Mage to walk through the quest area, Ice Lance any mob already engaged in combat with someone else, then reap the rewards for zero effort.

Open world tagging would be ok if there is a minimum damage requirement, such as a % of mob health based on the number of tags.

Originally Posted by Masarah

All open world tagging would encourage is for me as a Mage to walk through the quest area, Ice Lance any mob already engaged in combat with someone else, then reap the rewards for zero effort.

Open world tagging would be ok if there is a minimum damage requirement, such as a % of mob health based on the number of tags.

I've never seen this type of activity in other mmos with shared tagging it's generally not that worth it. Most players would get pretty bored of playing like this. In any case you'd still have to run around and loot everything. Aoe loot doesn't have that large an area.
Most share tagging does have a min participation to get the rewards anyway.
Blizz is just being way too "safe: with this change.

No, I agree with Blizzard. The leveling experience (speaking very generally, not just about WoD) needs improvement, and making it into a further-trivialized DoT-and-run extravaganza is NOT a step in the right direction.

What's wrong with Wildstar's way of doing things? You get loot and quest completion proportional to the amount of damage your group did to the mob (every quest where you kill multiple things gives you a percentage completion rate, with harder NPCs granting more). Doing a little damage here and there doesn't add up to as much as if you just focus something down.

Isnt it just an issue the first day or two when everyone has to do the same quest at the same time?

Originally Posted by subanark

What's wrong with Wildstar's way of doing things? You get loot and quest completion proportional to the amount of damage your group did to the mob (every quest where you kill multiple things gives you a percentage completion rate, with harder NPCs granting more). Doing a little damage here and there doesn't add up to as much as if you just focus something down.

I actually really disliked this system, in Wildstar I was trying to complete quests as fast as possible and when spawns were slightly limited I found it REALLY annoying several other guys would just jump in and "steal" 50% of my credit. I'd rather just have the option to help people kill a mob out of kindness than out of gaining any benefit.

Personally I am not a fan of shared tagging, and greatly prefer the system the way Blizzard does it. Wildstar's system doesn't fit WoW either. Aion had a similar one, except there only the person doing the most damage would get credit. Certain classes were that way put at heavy disadvantage over others, which is probably what would happen in WoW as well. I haven't played in a while, but last I checked some classes would burst down mobs a lot quicker than others. Burst would be very important in areas with a lot of players.

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Originally Posted by slayton

I actually really disliked this system, in Wildstar I was trying to complete quests as fast as possible and when spawns were slightly limited I found it REALLY annoying several other guys would just jump in and "steal" 50% of my credit. I'd rather just have the option to help people kill a mob out of kindness than out of gaining any benefit.

Honestly, I would not even be comfortable with stealing credit from the one who attacked the mob first. How is that any less "griefing" than the current system? (which imo hasn't been a problem in years... or well, only at expansion launch).

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Originally Posted by Holybell

There is no reason not to go to shared tagging, all you do with the current system is create trolling and ire as people try to complete quests. I rather walk up and take out this mob with this one guy instead of letting him kill it and having to wait for it to respawn to fight whoever else is there for claim.

If I'm waiting for respawns, I tend to help kill the one active mob even if it's not my tag. Makes the mob die quicker, gives me something to do while waiting, and any new mob will respawn quicker(not by much, but atleast I didn't just sit there and watch when I had the chance to actually do something more fun some of that extra time).

They have no clue what there doing to Monks, they're ruining ww for no reason what so ever other than saying its a energy spec? completely pointless and more important unfun change they could make.

Originally Posted by Geodew

No, I agree with Blizzard. The leveling experience (speaking very generally, not just about WoD) needs improvement, and making it into a further-trivialized DoT-and-run extravaganza is NOT a step in the right direction.

Nobody plays WoW for leveling, it's time for them to stop pretending. Make leveleing simple and painless experience where people don't need to fight over mobs - it works wonders in other MMOs and promotes cooperation instead of pointless competition.

Originally Posted by Cronnix

Nobody plays WoW for leveling, it's time for them to stop pretending. Make leveleing simple and painless experience where people don't need to fight over mobs - it works wonders in other MMOs and promotes cooperation instead of pointless competition.

Nobody, eh? I know enough people who actually like levelling alts. I don't, I'm crap at levelling but it is certainly NOT the fact that we don't have open tagging that puts me off. Mainly, because it almost never happens, the world is so vast and varied, you barely see anyone else, 1-85. Even in MoP you barely see anyone levellling.

I mean mob competition is only going to be an issue at the launch of WoD, after that, it'll die down after the initial surge, furthermore, should there /be/ any cooperation between horde and alliance? They should most certainly be competing with each other. The best way around mob competition in the initial surge is just form a group with guildies or friends.

Originally Posted by elvor0

Nobody, eh? I know enough people who actually like levelling alts. I don't, I'm crap at levelling but it is certainly NOT the fact that we don't have open tagging that puts me off. Mainly, because it almost never happens, the world is so vast and varied, you barely see anyone else, 1-85. Even in MoP you barely see anyone levellling.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole

Originally Posted by elvor0

should there /be/ any cooperation between horde and alliance? They should most certainly be competing with each other. The best way around mob competition in the initial surge is just form a group with guildies or friends.

I'm not talking open tagging between factions but within a faction.

Originally Posted by Geodew

No, I agree with Blizzard. The leveling experience (speaking very generally, not just about WoD) needs improvement, and making it into a further-trivialized DoT-and-run extravaganza is NOT a step in the right direction.

in every MMO I've played with shared tagging, I've had a massively better experience than in games with mob tagging.

Rift had tagging, removed it, massive increase in fun right there. I like seeing other players. Or GW2 where everything is shared, its great, players help each other, players ressurrect each other. Its really social around events with people forming crowds and chatting.

When in the world, you see other players, you play with them, you talk if you want.


Compare that to wow.....annoyance everytime I see another player in the same area. Competing for resources and mobs and quest items. Pick up groups are not social at all, no more so than shared tags anyway....

LFG dailies.....

Then never say anything until you drop group.

Bliz really needs to get out of the past.

In all the time since I played GW2, I wondered why Blizz would not use this great system of having mobs being tabable by everybody.
I kinda get their arguement, but in all the many years I played WoW, I was always annoyed at my faction for tabing a mob I was just approaching. (If an Alliance member would tab it, fine, we are at war).
I tried to group in my early years. Mostly I got "already in a group" and there would be no invite for me, or just a decline. Nowadays I dont want to group. I want to help, yes, but I want to do that on the fly, not having to invite, or be invited. Make buffs like auras, so every faction member benefits from it without being in a group, and without me having to constantly (every hour, of course) rebuff my stuff. (where is that skill or useful, or even not annyoing?)

My example from GW. There is a herb I want to gather (Herbs, veins and stuff is phased in GW2 so everybody can farm it) and a mob is "guarding" it. So I attack the mob to kill it. In WoW, another player rushes to the herb and collects it, and is gone, while I still fight with the mob. In GW, there is a good, (in my expirience) chance, the player will help me kill the mob (since he can also loot it then) and we can both collect the herb.
In what universe is that a bad thing? (No, not in all of them!)

Also, while we are at it, insert the Gold, Silver and Bronze level of reward. Do it in LFR for Dommhammers sake. So if players are just barely approaching the mob, or the boss, and they make the last 5% of the HP of the boss damage to it, then it will probably only be a bronze reward, while players who where there all the time, not afking, and damaging, tanking and healing like they should get gold reward.
So there would be no afking in LFR, and the people who do minumum ammount of efford get the minimum or nothing.

I think the argument Blizzard is using about shared tagging is a theoretical one that has not played out in other games with shared tagging. Their argument sounds good on paper, but the reality is in games with shared tagging, you just do not see the behavior that Blizzard seems to expect will happen.

But that said, WOW is unique in many ways. The community, especially those wishing to ´cheat´ are much more efficient and advanced in WOW. I could see tag-sharing be used as part of gold-farming.

good idea should be base on the dmg done to mob.. more times you hit it more exp you gain (IE: low % such as .0100% to your exp with the kill of X % *we say 1%). so that way people wouldnt just run around hitting a mob and moving on, and would also have people help out others on that mob.

Not sure if that make sense let me break it down.

Mob A gets hit by Player A & B
both get total of kill xp (we say 1% keep it small)
but Player A attacked it more so gets that bonus from attacking it per hit (each hit = .0100%)
player B came half way but still get that bonus from attacking it per hit (each hit = .0100%)
Player A got (we say) .9% total from all his hits
Player B got (we say) .5% total from all his hits (due to coming half way into the fight)
Both players get (we say) 1% for killing the mob as a team..
Player A = 1.9% Xp from that mob
Player B = 1.5% Xp from that mob

That way it sorta forces that other player to stay and help cuz your getting xp from each hit.
Idea is from RF Online (if anyone played the game) each hit gives you % of xp (this includes the dmg you do to mob) + the kill % xp from that mob.

Originally Posted by Cronnix

Nobody plays WoW for leveling, it's time for them to stop pretending. Make leveleing simple and painless experience where people don't need to fight over mobs - it works wonders in other MMOs and promotes cooperation instead of pointless competition.

I enjoy leveling, and get bored if just leveling through dungeons etc. Apparently I am somebody. Apparently I am not the only one. Your opinion does not make it everybodies.

How is a random quest group where no one says a word and people drop in and out as they finish their quests social but the same players playing the same way solo asocial ?
Blizzards definition of "people in a group for whatever reasons = social = good" is really funny.

Well, I have seen a lot more groups forming, a lot more interaction after kills and a lot more helpful interventions so far in the game I play with free mob tagging. I just don't buy any of the mob tagging arguments, it's just bad for interaction. All it does is make it easier for groups that has already formed, instead of encouraging groups to form. I'm not even lying if I said it is the primary way I've made friends in this same other mmo, because I didn't know hardly anybody joining it.

All you've got to do is to make sure there is a certain treshold for mobs, like you have to be present for 20% of its life (the value scaling with amount of players) or something, to get credit. This way you can't just tag and pass. The reward you get is really no big deal if you add something like this, no reason to scale it down. It is a nonissue then because you simply cannot tag that many things that are spread out, if you also have to damage them.

I also saw a great post in that thread regarding how people that are a bit cautious in forming ties with strangers is actively discouraged by the system in WoW where if you don't naturally end up grouping, why on earth would you feel an incentive to actually group, on a social level? I'm pretty introverted, as is a very large part of humanity, so it's not an isolated thing. I can relate to this a lot, it's exactly how I feel on the topic. For me, free tagging made a huge difference in actually forming those ties.