MMO-Champion - Skyreach Dungeon, Mob Tagging Rules, Blue Posts, EU Connected Realms, Finalboss #51
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Garden of Terror Battleground Preview & Discussion, Town Hall #23

Warlords of Draenor - Skyreach
Now that the new Arakkoa model is in, the Skyreach dungeon in Spires of Arak is open!





Mob Tagging Rules and Gameplay
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's no question that when spawning or quest objectives are not handled properly on our side, the tap system can create negative and anti-social experiences, wherein seeing players of your own faction nearby becomes a nuisance. We very much want to limit and rectify those situations. The most helpful thing you can do in that regard during beta is to bring to our attention specific quests or areas in which you felt competition for spawns was overly detrimental to your experience. We have a number of ways of fixing those problems, ranging from simply adding additional spawns, to dynamic spawn thresholds that ramp up density as player density increases, to making specific targets open tap.

The main reason we don't embrace a fully open-tap world is that we feel that those mechanics are asocial. To be fair, that is certainly better than antisocial - no question there, and antisocial experiences usually reflect spawning and mechanics that we need to adjust. However, while a world in which everyone runs around damaging things a few times (or however much is needed to qualify for credit) may be one in which you don't feel bad about other players being around, at some point it also makes those players nearly indistinguishable from NPCs or bots with decent AI. You don't need to talk, or ask if someone has room in their group or would like to join yours. You just attack a few times, and then move on.

On the other hand, mob tagging rules inherently reward and encourage social gameplay. Even in solo areas like daily quest hubs in Mists, we'd commonly see transient pickup groups form for the sake of efficiency, and stick together through that hub or maybe even another ("hey, anyone up for Klaxxi after this?"). But once again, it's incumbent upon us to make sure that we avoid situations where that is outweighed by negatives like competing for underspawned quest targets or objects.

Philosophically, for a while now, we've made sure that any time multiple players are sent to kill a single specific target that has a respawn timer (be it named quest boss, world boss, or an event like the Battlefield: Barrens commanders in patch 5.3), the mob is open to credit for all. We're certainly open to extending that treatment where it makes sense, and where it serves to improve the overall experience. But I wouldn't expect a wholesale overhaul of our tap mechanics in the near future.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Warlords of Draenor Theorycraft Discussion
My theory is that for each target in the area of effect of these spells, the healing done to each target is equal to the base healing on 1-6 targets, multiplied by 6, and then divided by the number of targets within some clump check (I don't have an idea of how it does this.) This is consistent with what I saw before (in case 3 above, some dummies treated me as part of their clump number, and some didn't.)
Warning, super techy theorycrafting incoming. You do *not* need to understand any of this to use these spells effectively. This info is primarily for theorycrafters.

Yes. This is something we've mentioned a few times, but I don't know if has ever been fully detailed. Traditional AoE capping works by counting the number of targets hit, and dividing the capped damage amongst them. However, there are four spells for whom that logic does not work: Chi Burst, Chi Torpedo, Divine Star, Halo.

They all heal targets in an area, but that area moves (usually quite quickly, but still). If I launch a Chi Burst down a line of targets, it doesn't preemptively figure out which targets it's going to hit at cast time or anything. It just launches the orb, and there is collision detection that on it that will heal each target that it collides with. That means that when the first target gets hit, none of the other targets have been hit yet, so there's no other hits to help determine how much damage/healing it should do.

So, we have a different solution for these spells. They build a list at cast time of all potential targets, and a count of how many other potential targets are near each one of those targets. That count is used for the AoE capping logic.

Chi Burst: Potential targets are all targets within 60yd. Clump radius is 10yd.
Chi Torpedo: Potential targets are all targets within 40yd*. Clump radius is 10yd. (*was 25yd, should be *40yd in next build)
Divine Star: Potential targets are all targets within 40yd. Clump radius is 18yd.
Halo: Potential targets are all targets within 40yd. Clump radius is 30yd.

This works, but has some downsides of gamability, and potentially AoE capping more than needed. Example: Have a clump of a dozen players. Throw a Chi Burst but mis-aim it so it only grazes a single person in the clump. It'll apply the full AoE capping in that case, even though it only healed one target.

Just did a tuning pass on weapon enchants, and here are what they'll do in the next build. (See Blue Tracker for full list)

-The other day I soloed ICC and ULD with my 90 premade toons for fun, and realized that all of my damage jumped by 100-120 times, while the formula you gave before showed 16.5 as the maximum multiplier. That's where I started guessing about a new formula implemented. Testing in Firelands showed a multiplier around 30 and considering that the mob was squished to 25%, it's about the same 100-120 multiplier in total.
Looks like we changed the formula to make it scale much more. I'll get new formulae for you soon.

1) Darkmoon cards seem very week (620 only) compared to heroic high maul gear (655), even weaker than 5h (630 and rarely 645). What's the reason behind that?
2) Why do devs decide to use 15 as the new tier difference, instead of 13 which has been used for such a long time?
3) I could see 620 and 660 pvp gears (while in pvp they're 675 and 690). Are those the final versions of pvp gear progression in 6.0? If so, then that big gap is really causing some issue imo and 660 pvp gear is again "necessary" for pve progression now that the only better stuff than 660 is tier-2 raid gear.

1) Darkmoon cards are upgradable.
2) To create more differentiation and allow more gradiation within a tier.
3) The very top end of PvP gear is good, but not great, for PvE. That does not make it necessary for PvE.

This isn't really theorycraft, so please start a new thread to discuss that further. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Garrison Resource Cap
Just to be clear. The resource cap is a holding cap, not a weekly earning cap. There are no limits (currently) on how many resources per week you are able to earn, just that you can walk around with a maximum of 1000 on your character at any given time.

We are working on more cool things to spend resources on. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Garrison Followers and Custom Attributes
Level 2 of the inn lets you select custom attributes on the followers you recruit, not your existing ones. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Racials
racials in WoD favour alliance heavily. Surely you should aim for parity rather than using them as a social engineering tool?
Everything we're seeing suggests that there previously was a favor toward Horde, and now there is parity. (Celestalon)
If have any data to suggest otherwise, we'd love to evaluate it. (Celestalon)

Classes
just curious are the class mechanics close to being worked out at this point?
Close, but not all done. Still several things on our list, design-wise. Then tuning, which may involve a few more design changes. (Celestalon)

Many classes have spec specific lvl100 talents, many also do not, any chance at adding spec-specific talents to boost flavor?
It's an option in our toolbox, but not always required in order to create an interesting choice. (Celestalon)

Is the intent still to make all three talents in a tier competitive, or are you okay with just two? 1/2
Yes, all 3 talents should be competitive, though some may be more niche than others. (Celestalon)
What is different between "niche" and "used only in very specific circumstances that occur only 1 fight/tier"?
That's just a matter of extremes; of just *how* niche something is. What's the concern? (Celestalon)

Monk (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
I don't get what your problem is . Nerf the dmg but increase the energy regen. Win Win, same dmg and always stuff to press.
The problem is that Windwalker is an energy based spec, and many people are forgetting the impact of that. (Celestalon)
Making an energy based spec that's not limited by energy... Is simply not something we're going to do. (Celestalon)
Devil's advocate - What about Mana based specs that aren't limited by Mana? Why have a Mana bar in the first place?
They're limited by some other resource (sometimes that's Time), and are designed around that. (Celestalon)
So you may as well axe some specs Mana bars, no? Or is this intended to be flavour? An homage to when it did matter?
Somewhat flavor. It's a very fair criticism that most DPS with mana bars don't use mana as their primary resource. (Celestalon)
In these cases, Mana is functionally a tertiary resource, used for offheals/utility. Presentation as primary is misleading. (Celestalon)

any thought about monks changing their celestial guardian depending on what stance they are in, so brew get the ox not xuen?
It's something we'd like to do, but would be mostly just a cosmetic change, so is low on our priority list at the moment. (Celestalon)

Paladin (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
Will Empowered Seals be altered to allow seal swapping without using the GCD? Or is this complexity intended.
Complexity is intended. (Celestalon)

Warlock (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
Is Warlock T100 designed to allow you to choose between Infernal & Doomguard by personal pref, or are they still split AoE / ST?
Doomguard is single target. Infernal is AoE/Tanking. (Celestalon)

can demo get back the old gosac only with passive fury gen attached, petless option would be nice
Changes are coming to that talent slot, but not like that; sacrificing your pet is too kit-inappropriate for *Demonology*. (Celestalon)

Why the Soul Shard cost to Soul Swap? Adds a global to each target i need to DoT. VERY costly in PvP.
A global? Should be a shard cost, not a GCD cost. Soulburn isn't on the GCD. But intended to be high cost. Want Warlocks... (Celestalon)
...to actually cast their DoTs most of the time. SB:SS should be a niche tool, not the main source of DoT applications. (Celestalon)

Warrior (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
all questions about stance dancing have been ignored, myself and others have asked many times.
Not ignored, just already answered in the patch notes. (Celestalon)
We expect that in their current implementation on beta, it'll displease many warriors, but won't once... (Celestalon)
...we fully implement it. Some changes are good, even knowing that we won't get much positive feedback. (Celestalon)

3 Raging Blows = 12 second CS window, correct?
If those RBs are within the CS, yes. (Celestalon)
What about Enrage extention? Enrage already falls off before CS less reliable crit now, just going to BT more in CS
Yes, as you absolutely should. It significantly changes your in-CS gameplay. (Celestalon)
Yes will have to play with it more. Just seems like we will spend all the extra CS hitting BT again for Enrage.
1 extra BT within the CS is not "all the extra CS". Big difference. (Celestalon)

Think we could shift some of the rage gen away from crit? This helps a lot but even having crit be +50% instead of +100%...
That's also on our list in case we need to tune up or down the value of crit, but will happen in tuning. (Celestalon)

Warlords of Draenor Stats
however dots do multistrike yes?
The *damage* from DoTs will multistrike. The DoT itself doesn't apply two debuffs. (Celestalon)

I think it gets confusing on the few abilities that have multiple hits. Penance, Missiles, etc. AoE/Dots trigger per tick?
Each Penance missile, or each Arcane Missile, can multistrike. AoEs can deal multistrike damage to each target individually. (Celestalon)

I ultimately don't understand how in the end it is any different than a crit. It's just a chance of increased damage.
Similar in that it gives you additional damage, but it does so in a different way, with a different feeling, and implication (Celestalon)

can the damage resulting from multistrike crit?
Yes, but a multistrike's damage is not dependant on the damage that triggered it; it's a separate damage roll. (Celestalon)

This brings the question: Will resource generators multistriking generate more resources or will it just copy the damage?
Just the damage. (Celestalon)

General answer to all "Does this Multistrike?" questions:Everything benefits *once* from Multistrike. No doubledipping, or zerodipping. (Celestalon)
Does that include taunts? :P
.No, debuffs/buffs don't multistrike, only damage/healing. (Celestalon)
how do HoTs and Dots benefit from multistrike? Extra tick or doubled damage/healing?
Each tick has a chance to multistrike. (Celestalon)

PvP
comes to open world cross realm tech, how is Ashran going to be different to other open world events on Oceanic servers?
A good question, we'll be sending a lot of the oceanics to the same Ashran. (holinka)

any plans to make reporting bots easier in wod? Report afk is a bit vague. Let us help you remove bots from pvp!
Definitely something we're talking a lot about but nothing to announce yet. (holinka)

Lore
The high-Arakkoa models look really cool. Will any of them be with the Arak Outcasts as exiled, but not corrupt? Or enemies only?
You might see one. (_DonAdams)

While we're on the arakkoa topic though, are the Outcasts the same group we fought in Terokkar?
Some of them, yes. (_DonAdams)

random question but are the arakkoa outcasts the wingless ones or do they have some winged outcasts too?
The vast majority are cursed and have withered/useless wings. You might meet a few un-cursed arakkoa who have left Skyreach... (_DonAdams)

World
Celestalon, are you aware that almost all lava ticks for a static 20% of your characters health on beta?
Yes, intended. (Celestalon)

Misc
"only complaint I have about WoW ... lots of oppurtunity to meet strangers, nothing to help make friends" @AmeliaTalon
Hopefully our new group finder is a step in the right direction. But we could do more for guilds. (holinka)
For instance, we've discussed a "Recently Seen" list in social to help you find people again. (holinka)
Like if you had a good dungeon experience in LFD, after the group breaks up, you can reach out, etc. (holinka)
but everything with good intentions has potential for harassment so we need to be careful. (holinka)

EU Connected Realms Update - 28/07
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
The following realms are due to be connected on 30 July:

English Realms
  • (PvE) Bronzebeard and Aerie Peak

German Realms
  • (PvP) Mannoroth and Nefarian/Nera'thor

Russian Realms
  • (PvP) Гром and Термоштепсель

The following realms are due to be connected after the realms above:

German Realms
  • (PvP) Destromath and Nefarian/Nera'thor/Mannoroth

Finalboss #51 - Warlocks and Shadow Priest
Finalboss talked with DPSonRoids of Midwinter and TwinTop of Slash/Hug this week about Warlock and Shadow priests in Warlords of Draenor.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Skyreach Dungeon, Mob Tagging Rules, Blue Posts, EU Connected Realms, Finalboss #51 started by chaud View original post
Comments 40 Comments
  1. Turaska's Avatar
    Have to disagree about the tagging thing, prefer having it as is now.
  1. Kilmir's Avatar
    The issue has arisen again mostly due to Beta spawnrates being badly balanced still. Some bad spawnrate questmobs or events have dozens of people jumping every spawn or just camping a spawn for half an hour to get their tags.

    At lvl 96 I have about 7 unfinished quests simply because after half an hour I gave up on the spawn. I reported them all through the ingame suggestion system and I expect them all to be fixed with release, but for now it does get annoying.

    There are also several areas where the spawnrate scales with number of people and I haven't heard any complaints about those. I'm curious why Bliz doesn't add that mechanic to simply every spawn. It will give a much better respawn rate feel right off the bat.
  1. Syridian's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lizardo View Post
    I've never seen this type of activity in other mmos with shared tagging it's generally not that worth it. Most players would get pretty bored of playing like this. In any case you'd still have to run around and loot everything. Aoe loot doesn't have that large an area.
    Most share tagging does have a min participation to get the rewards anyway.
    Blizz is just being way too "safe: with this change.
    GW2 trains through Arah farm excessively based on the very fact that shared tagging is enabled. You just get a blob of 50 max levelled players spamming AoE just to ensure they each get credit before mobs die. Would not want to see that become a meaningful practice in WoW.
  1. jimlow's Avatar
    Wow these instances are getting me really hyped! Maybe its because I have run the MOP heroics to the point now where it seems like every run is a time trial. But between the item squish/ new mechanics/ and all the really cool new looking models and art this expansion is shaping up to look really awesome!
  1. Help ol Gil Out's Avatar
    I really dislike the mob tagging system (outside of bosses/rares) and that they are holding back on it in much the same way that they were about AoE-looting. A lot of newer MMOs use faction tag and it's incredibly convenient to the point where it inspires players to help each other out regardless of being grouped or solo rather than see the name turn grey a fraction of a second before you hit it, you groan, and move on to another mob. Spawn rates are a non-issue in games which use this method.

    Just feels like another system Blizzard is reluctant to change and I don't feel it's for the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syridian View Post
    GW2 trains through Arah farm excessively based on the very fact that shared tagging is enabled. You just get a blob of 50 max levelled players spamming AoE just to ensure they each get credit before mobs die. Would not want to see that become a meaningful practice in WoW.
    If you mean the three defense missions that were within a minute or so run between each other, yeah, I would put more of that blame on to the developers for not realizing the consequences of putting timed events (often in series) which can provide you with massive amounts of points, items to salvage and crafting materials that ran 24/7 to the point where you could literally no longer see the mobs due to the amount of players on screen at once.

    For an open/faction tag system to work, the rest of GW2 and Wildstar are good examples of how they handle it through mob density and respawn rate.
  1. Slappyjoe's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Syridian View Post
    GW2 trains through Arah farm excessively based on the very fact that shared tagging is enabled. You just get a blob of 50 max levelled players spamming AoE just to ensure they each get credit before mobs die. Would not want to see that become a meaningful practice in WoW.
    As opposed to now where players out in the world in WoW actively avoid each other because there's no reason at all to help? What you're describing in GW2 isn't because of open tagging, it's because the game sort of funnels players into that type of behavior just because it's available and the density of normal and group mobs is far higher than it is in WoW. You're also ignoring the fact that in every other place in GW2, open tagging is a huge benefit. It encourages social behavior simply because there's literally no reason not to help out people who are around you. And let's be real: a lot of people are going to take the path of least resistance anyway, so if there's an equivalent to Champion farming in WoW, people are doing it already. Back when Timeless Isle was new, people were forming raid groups to farm rep all the time. How is being a nameless person in a 40 man raid any different than doing exactly the same thing without having to form that raid group?

    Speaking of Timeless Isle, it's weird because of how perfectly it illustrates the difference between shared and unshared tagging. All of the named mobs and rares are open and people naturally gravitate to one another to kill them. They may not talk to each other much or form actual groups, but they're still playing together because there's no effort required to do so. Then you have every other mob on the isle that isn't shared. What do you do when you see someone killing one of those? You go somewhere else. You may group up, but just as it is throughout all the other levels in the game as people are questing to level up, unless people form groups with people they already know, chances are they're playing solo.

    Open tagging removes the pressure to be social and simply lets it happen naturally. People help one another because there's no reason not to. I'd be willing to bet that most players here who have spent any amount of time solo questing have wished at least a few times that those other people killing the quest mobs weren't there. So with open tagging, even if you're not making friends every time you kill a mob together, at the very least that's better than actively avoiding contact at all, isn't it?
  1. Docmortem's Avatar
    I loved WoW for such a long time ... only two months of Wildstar changed how I look at WoW Dungeons though... I really dont think any of the bosses looked challenging at all >.>

    that is how a run around in a circle mechanic looks like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37r_OSj-1DA
  1. ApeDosMil's Avatar
    Rebuttals to the trite responses to tagging stance:

    "X game does it and its not antisocial..." Okay, let's say you see x paladin in quest area, cool, you quest together. Once the quest is over, no words are exchanged, nothing social actually happens. It may seem like a small thing, but asking to group may result in chit chat while killing stuff and may result in friend listing, guild inviting. If this isn't happening, either you are a toxic person or they are, not the community as a whole. Open tag doesn't reward you for socializing.

    "X game splits quest credit..." Okay, cool so that lock dotting and running around the field gets the same credit you get without as much effort. You play a class without an instant cast spammable dot. These same locks would /roll their eyes and tell you to re-roll. Other players seem like a nuisance for efficiency.

    "X game splits kill experience..." So, by the time you run out of quests in one zone without reaching the level requirements of the next zone, you are stuck mindlessly grinding the few non-quest-related mobs away from other players. Seems like antisocial behavior. Other players seem like a nuisance for efficiency. "but you can group up..." Yeah, just like in wow... during quests.

    Bosses and named mobs are always open tap, and the rarer multiples-needed quest kills always have their spawn rates increased or get put on dynamic spawn timers based on other players in the area. "Oh, but if too many people are in the area, killing one will have them spawn on top of me once I am done..." <---An actual genuine gripe? Whaaaaa... Okay, this just means you have to make note of where they spawn, and pull them into safe areas where you can escape afterwards. Open world should be dangerous anyways. Learn to group for fun, efficiency, and to prevent having to corpse run every 5 minutes.

    If you argue after this, you may just be stubborn. I love you anyways.
  1. papajohn4's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    How is a random quest group where no one says a word and people drop in and out as they finish their quests social but the same players playing the same way solo asocial ?
    Blizzards definition of "people in a group for whatever reasons = social = good" is really funny.
    exactly...I have been in countless groups for rep/coin farm on the island and guess what, no one ever spoke or even better put someone on friend list...first they add all those LFG tools and LFR to let everyone push a button solo and do dungeons/raids without ever need to say a word and then they care about "social" activities and they try to achieve this social part with a very old and outdated mechanic..how ironic.
  1. leipuri's Avatar
    So that explain why Golden Lotus dailies were such nuisance early in MoP. It was blizzard way to design social gameplay.
  1. Houyi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Syridian View Post
    GW2 trains through Arah farm excessively based on the very fact that shared tagging is enabled. You just get a blob of 50 max levelled players spamming AoE just to ensure they each get credit before mobs die. Would not want to see that become a meaningful practice in WoW.
    and yet its massively more social to do that, have fun event farming in GW2, jking with people talking between events, helping people in the zones to do stuff. All the time people are in chat asking for a bit of help with a skill point or something and someone will go help.

    I just dont see it in wow, which I regards as a single player game unless you are LFG running or in a raid.
  1. Keleri's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yavamar View Post
    A shame about the tagging. A lot of people seem to be in favor of open tap on the official forums.
    This is one thing that GW2 did so well, I felt excited to see other players because I wasn't competing with them for anything, not even resource nodes. WoW might be okay with shared tap on named mobs and dynamic spawns for the regular ones, but only if quests are intelligently designed (e.g. kill 20 mogu, not kill 10 mogu warriors and 10 mogu mages-- inevitably, one of these groups spawns less than the other and then it's trolling and stealing to finish up because no one wants to be wasting time clearing the surplus mobs).
  1. thunderdragon2's Avatar
    as ive said in another thread 2 fixes could make things alot better for everyone

    1) allowing the ability to solo queue for dungeons/scenerios/lfr even when grouped - the system for this is already in place and its working for battlegrounds even when in a group you can solo queue or grp queue for battlerounds

    2) for quests that to loot X of Y from corpses you can have it shared so that all your party memebrs that killed Y mobs 4 of X drops all members that killed Y get the 4 of X this alredy qorks for the 50 ephoc stones quest from timeless isle, exaple me and houyi kill 8 frogs 5 stones drop houyi loots the 5 stones i can also go and pick up those stones
  1. BlaQ's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Docmortem View Post
    I loved WoW for such a long time ... only two months of Wildstar changed how I look at WoW Dungeons though... I really don't think any of the bosses looked challenging at all >.>

    that is how a run around in a circle mechanic looks like [can't post links]
    So you just run and avoid lava circles? That is boring. Can't even attack anything. You just run. It's just repetitive and annoying after first 2 times.
  1. subanark's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ApeDosMil View Post
    Rebuttals to the trite responses to tagging stance:

    "X game does it and its not antisocial..." Okay, let's say you see x paladin in quest area, cool, you quest together. Once the quest is over, no words are exchanged, nothing social actually happens. It may seem like a small thing, but asking to group may result in chit chat while killing stuff and may result in friend listing, guild inviting. If this isn't happening, either you are a toxic person or they are, not the community as a whole. Open tag doesn't reward you for socializing.

    "X game splits quest credit..." Okay, cool so that lock dotting and running around the field gets the same credit you get without as much effort. You play a class without an instant cast spammable dot. These same locks would /roll their eyes and tell you to re-roll. Other players seem like a nuisance for efficiency.

    "X game splits kill experience..." So, by the time you run out of quests in one zone without reaching the level requirements of the next zone, you are stuck mindlessly grinding the few non-quest-related mobs away from other players. Seems like antisocial behavior. Other players seem like a nuisance for efficiency. "but you can group up..." Yeah, just like in wow... during quests.

    Bosses and named mobs are always open tap, and the rarer multiples-needed quest kills always have their spawn rates increased or get put on dynamic spawn timers based on other players in the area. "Oh, but if too many people are in the area, killing one will have them spawn on top of me once I am done..." <---An actual genuine gripe? Whaaaaa... Okay, this just means you have to make note of where they spawn, and pull them into safe areas where you can escape afterwards. Open world should be dangerous anyways. Learn to group for fun, efficiency, and to prevent having to corpse run every 5 minutes.

    If you argue after this, you may just be stubborn. I love you anyways.
    By "split" quest experience is not the same as shared experience. If you do 10% of the damage you get 10% of the quest credit. Your quest progress is only measured in percentages. The exception to this is bosses, which, yes if you hit the boss once you get credit and can complete the quest. In any case, there are more quests to do in a zone than needed to level up, so you generally shouldn't run out.
  1. Aybar's Avatar
    Lol I know what that guy means when he says: "I actually hate raidleading".

    I'm in a pretty casual guild, but still MoP was the first expansion where we didn't clear any heroic bosses. When the last raidleader quit the game the choice was no raids or someone that didn't want to start leading. That someone ended up being me and I did not feel up to leading heroic progression raiding. So we called raiding quits after we cleared everything on normal with all the regular raiders.

    We'll have to do some new recruiting in WoD because of the long period of inactivity, but I prefer it over a WoW burnout. The plan for WoD is to at least do some mythical bosses, but we're not to worried if we don't clear it :-)
  1. ApeDosMil's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by subanark View Post
    By "split" quest experience is not the same as shared experience. If you do 10% of the damage you get 10% of the quest credit. Your quest progress is only measured in percentages. The exception to this is bosses, which, yes if you hit the boss once you get credit and can complete the quest. In any case, there are more quests to do in a zone than needed to level up, so you generally shouldn't run out.
    *swoooosh* Over your head. However it's divided, it will be scrutinized by anyone who doesn't agree. Here's a possible result of percentage damage=percentage quest exp, percentage loot drops, and/or percentage quest credit... OP classes will have an exponentially easier time leveling, gearing up, and completing quest chains required for other perks, because they just hit harder and if hitting harder = more experience, more loot allowances, and faster quest completion (higher xp-per-hour). The OP classes will be nerfed into the ground. One perceived OP class/spec will rise and fall after another, and while OP classes usually get nerfed anyways, there will be more push to homogenize to make things "fair." And you know damn well that once that happens, healers will complain that the already difficult level experience is too hard without others trying to "help" by siphoning off experience, because their specs struggles to kill things. No healers leveling up, no healers in leveling dungeon queues. Slippery slope, slippery slope.
  1. Hotei's Avatar
    So you may as well axe some specs Mana bars, no? Or is this intended to be flavour? An homage to when it did matter?
    Somewhat flavor. It's a very fair criticism that most DPS with mana bars don't use mana as their primary resource. (Celestalon)
    In these cases, Mana is functionally a tertiary resource, used for offheals/utility. Presentation as primary is misleading. (Celestalon)
    Blizzard just officially killed mana. RIP mana 2014.
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    That dungeon looks awesome but wonder how long it will be before Blizz caves to the "it's too hard whiney brigade" and changes it..

    And I wonder that since Ghostcrawler is long gone that Celestalon has taken up the mantle of community whipping boy..
  1. Terracresta's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    That dungeon looks awesome but wonder how long it will be before Blizz caves to the "it's too hard whiney brigade" and changes it..

    And I wonder that since Ghostcrawler is long gone that Celestalon has taken up the mantle of community whipping boy..
    What about the "we get kicked 'cause we got no long lasting, short cd cc" people?

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