MMO-Champion - Iron Docks, Dev Interview, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month, Ghostcrawler on WoW
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Warlords of Draenor - Iron Docks
Today we are taking a look at the Iron Docks, a dungeon located in Gorgrond.





Warlords of Draenor - Dev Interviews
GAME recently had the chance to interview Tom Chilton at Gamescom.


  • Retaining the soul of the character with the new character models is very important, so players should feel that the new model looks like a higher quality version of the older one. Players have helped to address areas in which the models fell short of that goal during the design process.
  • The more human like races have more player sensitivity to changes, as players are more in tune with how their character looked before. Other races, such as Tauren, are a little harder to spot changes on.
  • Garrisons were originally called Frontier Forts when the team was brainstorming. Eventually the idea was refined to the Garrisons we see today, which finally answer the question of what players would actually do with player housing.
  • For the most part, players have accepted the stat squish.
  • The number of abilities classes have has gotten out of control, as most classes had enough abilities at WoW's launch, but more and more have been added since then. We finally reached the point where pruning had to be done.
  • The design of the Arms Warrior lost its way over the years, moving away from what Arms felt like when WoW was launched. The changes in Warlords should solve this and bring back the identity of the spec.
  • Tol Barad went the wrong direction after Wintergrasp, as it focused more on battleground like gameplay instead of the World PvP aspect. Wintergrasp did feel like an epic battle though.


Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Classes
Paladin (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
Any chance for a on-screen visual for empowered divine storm? (Alike to what we have with exorcism etc.), would be lovely.
Yep, Empowered Divine Storm is getting a spell alert. (Celestalon)

Clemency is pretty mandatory for Paladins. Any plans to chance the other two talents, to be more an option for Paladin?
Unbreakable Spirit is a great option if you're worried about survival, which seems to be a big Ret complaint. (holinka)

Achievements
If no "real" scenarios 100, why add achievement to do 1000 scenarios in WoD, seems like overkill to go spam 90 scens
Agreed. Those were created long ago before we decided to focus on using scenarios as epic storytelling moments. Will fix. (WatcherDev)

Brawler's Guild
Will we see new Brawler's Guild at launch or later in the expansion?
Updated at launch, hopefully expanded later in the expansion. (WatcherDev)

PvE
I'm really happy with the somewhat slower raid release schedule. I'm hoping the "several weeks" turns into, like, 8. Better for me!
I like the number 8. (WatcherDev)
But seriously, probably in that ballpark. 4 weeks for MSV -> Heart of Fear was too fast. (WatcherDev)

Will Challenge Mode bosses drop loot? Or will they be rewards at the end? (Figuring out database tech)
Neither. Daily quest to do a specific CM dungeon of the day, like the daily CM quest that gives a bunch of Valor in Vale currently (WatcherDev)
So GOLD isn't required to get the LFR level gear?
Correct, it's literally just to complete a harder-than-Heroic dungeon. Speedrun is for cosmetic rewards. (WatcherDev)

Sort of confused on CM gear rewards now. Can you clarify the different ways to get different gear? Daily? Getting all Gold? Mix?
Daily CM quest for a shot at LFR quality loot with stats. Then all Bronze/Silver/Gold for title/mount/transmog like in Mists. (WatcherDev)

PvP
Why not make the crowd cheer in arenas when someone gets below 20 percent? And add some random yells from the audience.
We would like to do some more atmospheric things like this...but you may notice, that right now, there are no crowds. (holinka)

Please make skirmishes available for lvl 19s, a community that have been wanting them back for years and was so excited for WOD.
Understand the requests. Looking into it. No guarantees until it's in the game for sure. May be issues at these late stages. (holinka)

Alliance is being destroyed in Ashran right now.
It's rough on beta as there's really no population control going on. But I've seen it swing both ways. (holinka)

What happens to Spirit of Conquest enchants, etc. in WoD? Will still be able to be purchased? Maybe with honor like other items?
We're going to incorporate them into the Garrison enchant transmog system. (holinka)
with 2200 requirements still?
Yes still a rating requirement. Not final on the exact rating yet. (holinka)

Lore
Am I the only one who noticed Kargoth's wrong hand being ripped off in the Lords of War?
Shattered Hand generally replace their left hands. The original Warlords key art was mirrored. (WatcherDev)

So.. we haven't seen Naga yet in Draenor. Will we, or how did they get to Outlands?
No naga in Warlords. They came to Outland with Illidan and Lady Vashj, and weren't here in this time. (DaveKosak)

World
I don't understand why don't they make every FP conneect to every other FP. All problems solved with a straight line,
There's a custom path that the gryphon/whatever takes from each point to each other one. Has to be manually created. (Celestalon)
I thought these were being rethought from the ground up? Seems like the same issues they've always had.
Not sure what 'rethinking' you're referring to. Flight paths are still flight paths. Just need to be more efficient (Celestalon)
These problems have persisted for years. Wonder if FPs were put aside for a bit a better way could be found.
It comes down to what you want flight paths to do, from a game design point of view. Point is not just fast travel. (Celestalon)

Garrisons
---recruitment felt like the big draw of the Inn to me.
Epic dungeon quests with unique rewards a la WOTLK dungeon dailies, from awesome visitors like Gamon, Budd, Lunk, Oralius, etc. (Muffinus)

can you add a garrison follower to spires of arrak inn or was one recently added?
Several spires followers still to come. (Muffinus)

Misc
So, any chance Reshad is this expansion's "Lorewalker Cho"?
Cho was definitely an inspiration. Reshad probably won't be quite as involved, though. (_DonAdams)
That being said, I would love to see Reshad come back. He was fun to write and his voice actor is legendary. (_DonAdams)

Computers - Setup of the Month
Each month or every 2 months, depending on the hardware evolutions, we will post a couple of hardware setups for those of you who are thinking of upgrading their computer!

This month
The current SSD prices are trending slightly downward over the past few months, with most SSDs under $0.50 per gigabyte when on sale.

The Devil's Canyon CPUs are here and they offer somewhat better overclocking performance and lower temperatures. Depending on how much you want to overclock, you may need to spend a bit more for a better CPU cooler like the NH-D14.

Unless you are doing a lot of video rendering or streaming, you do not need the 4790K and should spend that money elsewhere.

Make sure to keep your AMD and Nvidia drivers up to date.

Don't hesitate to post any feedback in the comments of that news post, and don't forget to visit the Computer Forum for any extra questions! If you are interested in Folding@home, take a look in our team's thread.


Peripherals/Monitors
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
MonitorASUS VS228H-P 22-Inch Monitor - $130ASUS VS248H-P 24-Inch Monitor - $170
KeyboardKensington Pro Fit Media Keyboard - $14Cyborg V.5 - $48
MouseLogitech G400s - $46Razer DeathAdder 2013 - $64
SpeakersCreative A250 2.1 Speaker System - $26Logitech Z313 Speaker System - $45
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
MonitorDell P2414H Monitor - $200HP ZR2440W 24-inch - $386
KeyboardLogitech G510s - $90CM Storm QuickFire XT - $120
MouseLogitech G500s - $54Razer Naga 2014 - $60
SpeakersLogitech Z323 2.1 Speaker System - $50Logitech Speaker System Z523 - $70


Puppy and Dolphin
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Puppy and Dolphin.
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
CaseNZXT Source 210 - $35NZXT Source 210 - $35
Power SupplyEVGA 600B - $50EVGA 600B - $50
CPUAMD FX-6300 - $108AMD FX-8320 - $154
HeatsinkCooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $32Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $32
MotherboardASUS M5A97 R2.0 - $91ASUS M5A99FX PRO - $115
MemoryKingston HyperX Blue 4GB 1600 - $468GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $86
Graphics CardGigabyte R7 260X - $100XFX R9 270X - $160
Hard DriveWestern Digital Caviar Blue 500GB - $51Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB - $78
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$535$732


Narwhal and Unicorn
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Narwhal and Unicorn.
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
CaseCooler Master HAF 912 - $60Corsair Air 540 (Special Layout) - $130
Power SupplyRosewill Capstone 650W - $90Rosewill Fortress 750W - $130
CPUIntel 4690K - $230Intel 4690K - $230
HeatsinkThermaltake Frio - $63Noctua 6 NH-D14 - $77
MotherboardASUS Z97-A - $145ASUS Z97-A - $145
Memory8GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $8616GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $182
Graphics CardXFX R9 270X - $160XFX R9 280X OR EVGA GTX770 - $260 / $300
Hard DriveWestern Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $78Western Digital 2TB Caviar Black - $137
SSDCrucial MX100 128GB (Review) - $75
OR
SanDisk Extreme II 120GB (Review) - $80
SAMSUNG 840 EVO 120GB (Review) - $87
OR
SAMSUNG 850 Pro 128GB (Review) - $125
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
Total$934 - 1059$1388 - $1478


Ghostcrawler on WoW
Ghostcrawler took the time to talk about WoW at the end of last week on the LoL forums and Twitter.
Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
For a REALLY long time, you either had to play RMP, or pray you weren't queueing for 3v3 with the good RMPs were. RMP mirror matches were common on both the live game and in tourneys.
Yeah, I agree this is another good example. At the time it felt like the choice was between PvP dominated by rogue-mage-priest or more diverse comps. The rogue-mage-priest ecosystem did have a lot of depth and a lot of what Riot calls counterplay. But if you mained a hunter or paladin, you felt shut out, and leveling viable alts was a much steeper proposition back then. We made the call to open up more Arena comps, but that did come with the added "bonus" of a lot of disruption and instability. Giving more CC and other PvP cooldowns to other classes did create some burst comps that lacked a lot of the depth and finesse of the RMP monoculture. (Trying to balance abilities for both PvP and PvE didn't help at all.) It took several expansions before this felt better once again.

Was there a specific wow example that you think changed the balance too much? Whether you meant to shift the game that way or not, it seems like the playerbase thinks this has happened.
There were a lot of specific class changes where players were convinced they were weaker than we thought they were, or others where players just had a different vision for the class than the developers did, which is always a tough path to navigate.

If I had to point to one controversial change, I'd say that in vanilla and BC to a lesser extent, there were many specs that weren't really viable for PvE or PvP. We felt like they needed to be viable in order to justify being in the game, and we were reasonably successful in getting all of them much more competitive. I'll be honest that there were times when there was still one dominant PvP spec, one dominant PvE spec and one more-or-less dead spec per class, but we did get a lot closer than ever before, especially in the most recent expansion. (And that was the team that accomplished that -- I take very little credit.)

So why was this direction controversial? One, it was just flat out harder to balance since there were more variables. It led to all sorts of religious debates such as whether pure classes "deserved" to do more damage than hybrids. In order to guarantee that a particular class or spec wasn't mandatory for raiding or Arenas, we had to share utility among more classes. (One example is shaman were no longer the only ones to bring Bloodlust.) This did homogenize classes, and some players were understandably not excited about that direction. I'm not sure of a better approach though. Maybe WoW should just have had 10 classes and not the 30 that different specs brought. Maybe some specs should have just stayed dead. I still think about this a lot.

I was the lead systems designer on WoW. I managed about half the design department. My team was responsible for class design, combat, item design, encounters, and many of the features in the game like Dungeon Finder, Transmog and Achievements. As one of the leads on the team, I helped set the vision for the game as well. I was not the lead of WoW overall. I had much less to do with say world design, lore, quest design or anything business related. I didn't do very much implementation myself, because I didn't have the bandwidth to do it right, and because there were designers more qualified to do that. I was ultimately responsible for balance and that includes PvP, but I didn't make every change myself, and mostly I focused on removing barriers so other designers could do their jobs. I make that distinction because I don't mind being blamed for anything, but it does a disservice to a very large team to imagine one dude sitting on a throne spewing out edicts. Blizzard, like Riot, was very consensus based and focused on alignment.

Did I and my team make mistakes? Sure. Every game designer does. I'm pretty honest about admitting them, though it's tacky to throw colleagues under the bus, so I tend to stay away from areas where I had limited influence. I'm pretty happy with the work we did overall, and very proud of the team we were able to build.

Why am I spending all this effort to explain my role on another game? Because I don't want you or any other player to worry what my work on League means for the future of the game. While I think there are contributions I can make, I'm not interested in overhauling League by any stretch, and Riot would never let me get away with making dramatically bad choices that negatively affected our flagship, our only, product.

So, if I may, here are some distinctions between truth and rumor, offered in the spirit of getting to know me better.

1) I'm not super interested in compromising LoL design in the name of accessibility. Yes, League is obnoxiously hard to learn if you don't have a friend showing you the ropes. That sucks, but it's not worth stripping away the depth or potential for mastery for our core audience -- you guys -- in order to attract new players. That's not an approach every game can or should take, but it's the right call for League.

2) I never played a Frost mage in WoW, or any caster really. I played healers and melee. Frost was hard to balance in WoW because of the kit of control plus burst, and I'm fine taking flak for that. But it wasn't because I wanted to dominate in PvP with my character. I would have been fired for that. It was hard in general to balance combat and rewards for a game with both PvE and PvP components. It's very nice to be on a game that is emphatically competitive, team-based PvP.

5) I care enormously about player feedback and trust. That is why I spend so much time reading forums, Reddit and Twitter (@occupygstreet). In fact, that is one of the things I love about Riot and why I wanted to come work here. Anyone from my WoW days will tell you, I hope, that even if they disagreed with a design, they appreciated the effort I made to explain our reasoning and hear out their concerns. And this is the TLDR really. I have always been very vocal in my communication with players. I didn't intend to be the spokesperson for WoW, but my name was recognizable by a lot of players, and when they wanted to complain about something, they wanted to focus on a name. Again, I can take it. But that doesn't mean I called every shot on WoW and neither do I for League.

6) I do like ponies, gin and long walks on the beach. That part is true.

Do you ever regret opening the game up to be more casual? Instead of taking the kind of direction you are with league?
Different approaches work for different products, and I don't want to second guess the WoW team. Let's just say that after working on Age of Empires and World of Warcraft for a total of 16 years, it's really refreshing to work on a game where I don't have to worry whether someone's grandmother can pick it up or not.

Would like to see GC's grandmother (or mother or father or brother etc) kill Heroic 25m Siegecrafter Blackfuse!
Blackfuse is not the standard by which most of the game is designed. It's memorable in fact because it's so much harder than 99% of what you do in the game. Very few players even try (though it is a great fight). You don't wipe 100 times leveling up. Few players quit running dungeons because they're too hard. In much of the game, death is unlikely and not much of an obstacle when it does happen. That's just the way the game was designed and the way nearly all players experience it. I'm not even commenting on whether I agree with that philosophy or not, but it was the philosophy.

Regardless of whether anyone's grandmother can beat Blackfuse or attain Challenger tier is really besides the point. The points (and these are facts, because I was on the staff of both dev teams) are:

1) WoW spends a lot of effort to make sure almost any player can pick up the game, learn the ropes, level to 90 and even raid if that's their interest. LoL spends almost no effort making sure almost any player can pick up the game. It does expend some effort to make sure that players who self-identify as gamers can pick up the game.

2) As a result of these efforts and different definitions of potential audience, WoW has a much broader audience than LoL. That's fine. Different strategies work for different games.

My point was that I spent a lot of development time on both Age of Empires and WoW trying to make the games approachable to a wide audience without compromising the game design. I don't have to do that anymore, which is s nice change of pace.

It sounds kind of spiteful to say "a grandma can pick it up." Just throwing that out there
I meant no offense, but I chose that verbiage because "casual" is a very overloaded term. For some players it means that they play say League, but only once a month or so. For other people, casual means they play Candy Crush. For others it means, IDK, that you're unskilled at the games you play with no motivation to get better.

I figured "grandma" would communicate the kind of non-traditional gamer that doesn't usually show up in your League matches. To be fair, they don't show up in WoW that much either, but we would use that term when discussing whether some UI or teaching element was obvious enough.

WoW players seem to think I am dissing WoW. I'm not. I love WoW. But difficulty and accessibility are not the same thing. We spent a lot of effort on AoE and WoW making them accessible for almost any gamer. That was the direction of both games. League is targeted at core gamers and it's really nice to be able to spend all our effort on making the game engaging for them. (Source)
No, you aren't dissing WoW. Instead you are being contemptuous of a large portion of WoW subscribers.
Contempt wasn't what I had in mind. They are just different games. I'm not advocating for WoW to abandon non-hardcore players. (Source)
of course that risks LoL putting off core gamers such as myself that dislike the environment Riot has established in LoL
The best way to play almost any game, including League, is with friends. I really believe that. If your friends are toxic, well... (Source)
and - I dunno. Coming from the console dev world, WoW fails pretty hard on the accessibility front, imo. (pedrothedagger)
Yes, but we spent a lot of effort on making it more accessible. (Source)
is LoL not something that should be able to be accessible?
Not for a broad audience and not for casual gamers, no. Could it be easier to pick up? Of course. (Source)
It's very odd to hear that, because most people (including me) consider LoL very casual.
Games can be played casually without being targeted at casual players. (Source)

Why do you hate my grandma Greg?
It's challenging to be a hardcore gamer and have to constantly put yourself in the mindset of a very casual one. That said, I know some grandmas who raid. (Source)
Sounds bitter.
Bitter? No. It's just nice not to have to worry about attracting casual gamers. (Source)
I'm open to recruiting any grandma's that can heal heroic thok. just saying.
WoW has very hard content. That's not the same as being accessible to a broad audience. (Source)

I love WoW but if not for heroic raiding, I likely would have left a long time ago.
I'm a heroic (mythic) raider. That's how I fell in love with WoW. But they can't sustain the game alone. (Source)

There's a widespread misunderstanding that most people even want to be "brought up." Everyone has the tools and capability to do anything. How many do it? (Bashiok)
We thought in Cata that we could entice players to rise to the occasion to do harder content. But, you know, some players just said that's not why they play the game. More power to them. (Source)

I'd like to know what Blizzard considers to be the big barriers.
Well *I* consider the biggest barrier being it's a 3D WASD game with a movable camera. (Bashiok)
I agree. So does a lot of data. (Source)

Man, I always supported you with WoW changes and felt really bad when you left, but that WoW comment... ouch.
We updated Elwynn Forest twice while I was there to make the game accessible. It was a lot of work. There are very hardcore aspects of WoW but there are also casual ones. Catering to both (or all) is a big challenge. That's all I meant. I earned a reputation for "dumbing the game down" which is bizarre to me. I was countering that supposition. No offense intended.(Source)

I'm reading a lot of comments confusing accessibility with difficulty. Learning to play WoW is accessibility. Raiding is difficulty. WoW's intent when I was there (I can't speak for it now) was to appeal to a wide audience. Developing for a wide audience is very hard. Ulduar (my favorite raid) had two raid sizes (and optional hard modes). After that we added more difficulty tiers to broaden raiding appeal.
Is that something you didn't want to do?
You can argue it exposed more players to the fun of raiding, but might have diminished the psychological reward of doing so. Raids also self nerf over time as players gear up, and we did across the board nerfs as well. So dedicated players would eventually get to see the content. The change was more about whether players deserved to see new content when it was new vs several patches later. (Source)
Adding multiple tiers per raid is more work. Appealing to a broad audience is more work. For once in my career, I don't have to do that. (Source)
People struggled through bad design and confused it with mastery of difficulty.
There also was very little concept of damage meters or optimal rotations in Molten Core. The audience matured. (Source)

What by your experience are the constant things that come up that make learning a game hard?
1) Identifying the goal, 2) Understanding the controls, 3) Realizing where the fun is going to be. I mention that third point because too many tutorials strip away too much fun out of fear of burdening a new player.
Hand held guidance vs joy of discovery and freedom. Can`t have both.
Yes, but you can make the hand held guided part fun. Maybe you can see a dragon even if you have no business fighting one yet. (Source)

Explained another way, when you see a big drop off in players after only a few minutes then they are probably very confused. Players can't usually tell if a game will be fun that quickly, but if they have no idea what's going on, then they may quit. You see this a lot when casual players can't mouse look, a skill second nature to many core gamers. (Source)

Look, you can play a very demanding game casually or invest many hours in a simple iPhone game. WoW appeals / tries to appeal to many gamers who don't fit the traditional gamer mold. League doesn't go after those gamers. Simple as that. (Source)
I can mouse look, play WoW, and adventure games. Dont consider myself (hard)core gamer. Core/casual split seems so limiting
It is very limiting. However, when even game developers watch a brand new player struggle with controls it's eye opening. (Source)

Can you talk one feature you like paper but did not went well in WoW? And one community complain announced b like when tested
Reforging sounded great on paper but just became extra work solved by a website for most players. (Source)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Iron Docks, Dev Interview, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month, Ghostcrawler on WoW started by chaud View original post
Comments 80 Comments
  1. Gilian's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    As I thought: most people completely misinterpreted his statement.
    He is talking about development freedom and it's very understandable that he enjoys not having to worry about making stuff accessible to new gamers.
    What's new. People in general tend to get their feelings hurt way too quickly which results in misinterpretation. Some comments here are just ridiculous... 'hatred for casual players'. Seriously, get over yourself.
  1. Trassk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Damn, you sure sound angry. What did he ever do to you (except not giving you the moose he promised)?
    From a design PoV I completely understand his statement. Also I do not like to overinterpret stuff, been wrong too often.
    I just hate the attitude of douchebags like Greg Street, who thinks elitist hard mode is the only thing that matters and screw anyone else, anyone else who isn't an elitist hardcore player is a 'grandmother'.
  1. Salech's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I just hate the attitude of douchebags like Greg Street, who thinks elitist hard mode is the only thing that matters and screw anyone else, anyone else who isn't an elitist hardcore player is a 'grandmother'.

    Dude you are putting way to much into it, that is not what he said at all.... Geez man, jut calm down and read eveything and don't make assumptions based on a few words.
  1. Airbag888's Avatar
    What it feels like is Activision laying in Blizz devs to make the game more accessible to grand ma's which aggravated a lot of devs that wanted to make a game worth playing as opposed to the current "faceroll see all content" model that's supposed to attract more subs. Quantity over Quality of players is just too bad.

    I'm not a hardcore player (never cleared the original Naxx, Didn't kill clear Sunwell)but I wouldn't be butthurt if I didn't see some content because I (or the group)wasn't good enough for it. That's how it is in life. It appears a lot of people feel they deserve 100% of the content even when they can't handle the hurdles to get there. Just go watch some youtube videos if you want it that bad.

    It's really too bad they got bought out by Activision... There was a sense of accomplishment before when you killed bosses, not only for loot but for pushing back the baddie of the expac (or die-a lot trying) now well you've seen the fight 3 times by the time you get to an actual 'difficult' encounter.

    I'm sad to say though that I've invested so much time in WoW that I will probably end up buying WoD.. I got too many commitments IRL to go and learn a new MMO. At least I managed to kick D3 in the ass
  1. Houyi's Avatar
    WoW, thats GC tying himself in knots.

    Reading it a couple of times I think I actually agree with him on most of it, and I think its fair what he said, but damm, he worded it badly.
  1. Drpizka's Avatar
    I think that a man alone isn't responsible for the game's philosophy.


    The company is.

    Blizz decided that it should give in to casual demands; gief epics, moar epics, moar mounts etc


    When I started playing I was a noob; I leveled up my rogue on sub spec. I was dying all the time, my gear was greys and greens. At lvl 60 with a lot of effort I had a cool full blue gear , from quests and dungeons, and I was "OMG I am great".

    I knew that epics required greater effort and time, and I couldn't try it.

    On BC I had both the experience and the time required to raid. I respec to combat, I could make my own gear, I had spent a lot of time with my rogue and knew all his secrets.
    I didn't ask from Blizz to give me free epics. I put much effort and time for them.



    Nowadays casuals ask to have the same privileges as the hardcores, and unfortunately Blizz gives in.


    It's all about casuals' demands and Blizzard's fear for mass sub-cancellations.
  1. Armourboy's Avatar
    I think most of it makes sense, I find the more interesting to stuff to be where he touches briefly on the class design choices. I got the feeling that he wasn't real thrilled with the idea of trying to balance both PvE and PvP with the same skill set. I also got a strange feeling that at a certain point they just went too far with trying to spread the utility and basically went to the point of no return where they just had to keep going with it. You can see in his talk about Frost Mages, that the spec just had too much stuff going for it, and frankly I think its not the only spec that falls into that category.

    As I said when it was first announced though, we will eventually figure out just why he ( and Pardo as well) left. I think its becoming very apparent that he was just tired of beating his head against the wall when it came to certain aspects of developing the game. I'm directing that more at his bosses and coworkers than I am the players.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drpizka View Post
    I think that a man alone isn't responsible for the game's philosophy.


    The company is.

    Blizz decided that it should give in to casual demands; gief epics, moar epics, moar mounts etc


    When I started playing I was a noob; I leveled up my rogue on sub spec. I was dying all the time, my gear was greys and greens. At lvl 60 with a lot of effort I had a cool full blue gear , from quests and dungeons, and I was "OMG I am great".

    I knew that epics required greater effort and time, and I couldn't try it.

    On BC I had both the experience and the time required to raid. I respec to combat, I could make my own gear, I had spent a lot of time with my rogue and knew all his secrets.
    I didn't ask from Blizz to give me free epics. I put much effort and time for them.



    Nowadays casuals ask to have the same privileges as the hardcores, and unfortunately Blizz gives in.


    It's all about casuals' demands and Blizzard's fear for mass sub-cancellations.

    See I think far too often the players point the fingers at other players, when in reality its was a choice made by the company. I've played with some extremely casual people over the years, I've also played with some very hard core. That said, not one time ever have I ever heard anyone say they wanted to be handed epics. Frankly I can't really remember a time when very many players were demanding the ability to have the same gear as the heroic groups. The closest thing I've ever seen to this was that many of us asked for a more accessible version of these raids because we with ran in smaller guilds, or because back then, most of the climax of the story was in the raid itself and very few people ever got to see it.

    Frankly I blame Blizzard far more for the current design than anything asked for by players. The everyday player didn't ask that every ounce of meaningful content be routed through raids, Blizzard just chose that route because it was cheaper and easier to do. I was in a casual guild in Vanilla and no one complained about not seeing every single raid boss, but we also had plenty to do and ways to progress that didn't just include AQ40 or Naxx 40.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    As an older player whose rl friends have mostly left the game for various reasons (mostly rl stuff) i find myself "casual" in that i don have a ton of time to spend in game anymore, my times are erratic, and I'm relying more and more on group finder tools. I get that people like a challenge, but I'm starting to realize the other perspective, the "i don't have 3 hours to wipe on shattered halls for loot.

    I am skilled. On any class on the game, in all three roles. But my opinion is the polar opposite of yours. And that's okay, because that's all they are. Opinions.

    Gc expressing his opinion is fine, but i do find it disappointing that he is so disdainful of some players who used to contribute to his paycheck.
    If you don't have the time for a time sink game then maybe it's time you moved on to something else. Like candy crush.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I just hate the attitude of douchebags like Greg Street, who thinks elitist hard mode is the only thing that matters and screw anyone else, anyone else who isn't an elitist hardcore player is a 'grandmother'.
    Spoken like a true LFR hero.
  1. Drpizka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post


    See I think far too often the players point the fingers at other players, when in reality its was a choice made by the company. I've played with some extremely casual people over the years, I've also played with some very hard core. That said, not one time ever have I ever heard anyone say they wanted to be handed epics. Frankly I can't really remember a time when very many players were demanding the ability to have the same gear as the heroic groups. The closest thing I've ever seen to this was that many of us asked for a more accessible version of these raids because we with ran in smaller guilds, or because back then, most of the climax of the story was in the raid itself and very few people ever got to see it.

    Frankly I blame Blizzard far more for the current design than anything asked for by players. The everyday player didn't ask that every ounce of meaningful content be routed through raids, Blizzard just chose that route because it was cheaper and easier to do. I was in a casual guild in Vanilla and no one complained about not seeing every single raid boss, but we also had plenty to do and ways to progress that didn't just include AQ40 or Naxx 40.

    Complaining directly - maybe not

    Indirectly though, complaining about attunements , raid size etc you are asking for the company to make it easier for you.

    My guild was cooperating with another guild, back in the BC, to kill Maggy and Gruul. We weren't on the forums complaining.

    In my opinion, there must be a content designed just for the top in every MMO. If you want to experience it, become a top player, if not just sit back and enjoy the remaining content
  1. Stinky244's Avatar
    At first glance i read Iron Ducks. I was saddened when it was actually Docks.
  1. Yriel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bashiok View Post
    Everyone has the tools and capability to do anything. How many do it?
    That part annoys me. No not everyone has the capability to do anything. Yes that is something you tell your young child "You can be president one day" but in fact he won't.
    Not everybody is good at Math, not everybody is good at art, not everybody can run at olympic levels, no matter how hard they try.
    And not everybody can do heroic raids. I was in a family guild with really nice but really bad people. We had people that died every time for example with Imperial Vizier Zor'loks spiral thingy. We tried and tried and told them different tactics and said that they should do nothing at all on the second platform but try to survive the spiral running but they still died every single time.
    And it was like that in every encounter. The bad thing was.. they really loved raiding.
    So don't tell me everybody can do anything. They couldn't, no matter how often we tried and no matter how easy we made it for them. And that was on normal.
    There are a lot of players that are not good at the raid dancing game. Oh dancing makes me remember Heigan. In all Naxx we didn't have a single run where everybody survived. Usually it was me and 2 others that killed him in the end, everyone else was dead. Even after months they still died there.
  1. Airbag888's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    That part annoys me. No not everyone has the capability to do anything. Yes that is something you tell your young child "You can be president one day" but in fact he won't.
    Not everybody is good at Math, not everybody is good at art, not everybody can run at olympic levels, no matter how hard they try.
    And not everybody can do heroic raids. I was in a family guild with really nice but really bad people. We had people that died every time for example with Imperial Vizier Zor'loks spiral thingy. We tried and tried and told them different tactics and said that they should do nothing at all on the second platform but try to survive the spiral running but they still died every single time.
    And it was like that in every encounter. The bad thing was.. they really loved raiding.
    So don't tell me everybody can do anything. They couldn't, no matter how often we tried and no matter how easy we made it for them. And that was on normal.
    There are a lot of players that are not good at the raid dancing game. Oh dancing makes me remember Heigan. In all Naxx we didn't have a single run where everybody survived. Usually it was me and 2 others that killed him in the end, everyone else was dead. Even after months they still died there.
    Do you agree though that they should be handed out epics and the gratification of having killed an expansion end boss OR rather that they should acknowledge their shortcomings, decide that either they'll only see content they can handle or move to another game without bitching at blizz about difficulty and not seeing content (which is what happened over time and made the game what it is today unfortunately)

    The kind of 'bad' you're describing makes me think they're here and contributing at pull then at some point they're just dead meatsacks enjoying the show in 1080p
    LFR is already like the special olympics these days and there are still wipes that happen there
  1. Gilian's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    That part annoys me. No not everyone has the capability to do anything. Yes that is something you tell your young child "You can be president one day" but in fact he won't.
    Not everybody is good at Math, not everybody is good at art, not everybody can run at olympic levels, no matter how hard they try.
    And not everybody can do heroic raids.
    Holy shit. Did you just compare doing heroic raids to becoming an olympic athlete or the president? I get your point but come on... You don't need exceptional genes to raid in WoW, it's a videogame.

    You have to understand that no one was able to kill raid bosses straight from the get go. You also have to understand that raiding isn't (or wasn't... :S) only about killing the boss. Maybe I am a minority but I could wipe hundreds of times on a boss and still have fun as long as there was reasonable progress.
    I've also raided with people who were really, and I mean really, bad. But I have still seen them become better. I get that not everyone wants to put in that much time and effort to become better at some videogame but then this game just might not be for you...

    I don't see the problem anyway. You say they were bad at it, you wiped a lot but they still loved raiding. So, just let them do their thing then? And if you didn't enjoy playing with them you could have gone and played with other people.
  1. Armourboy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Drpizka View Post
    Complaining directly - maybe not

    Indirectly though, complaining about attunements , raid size etc you are asking for the company to make it easier for you.

    My guild was cooperating with another guild, back in the BC, to kill Maggy and Gruul. We weren't on the forums complaining.

    In my opinion, there must be a content designed just for the top in every MMO. If you want to experience it, become a top player, if not just sit back and enjoy the remaining content
    Oh we did the same thing, well actually we ended up getting Gruul down with 20 people on our own but that was later in the expansion. I have, nor do I think most people have a huge issue with there being that content they may not get a chance to see. However the problem is, that the game became so much about raiding, and gearing through raiding that people just didn't have much remaining content to enjoy. Its the one of the reasons that dailies get a bad wrap, they aren't bad, unless thats really all you have to do every day.

    This is the reason so many players asked for a 10 man format. They weren't asking to see or experience every single thing that the big guilds were doing, they just wanted something to do group wise as well. I sure as heck don't recall anyone in our guild complaining about the 10 man gear being lower level than the 25 man in Wrath, we were just happy to have something fun to do.

    As far as the attunements, those were removed as much because they were hindering new players from moving up even in hardcore guilds. Shoot for us, they were more annoying than hard, and it was actually the larger more progressed guilds that did the complaining about those, simply because it became such a pita to get new recruits.

    I think far to often though that Blizzard made design and philosophy changes based on the ideas of gaining new players and more profit and I think in some cases we as a player base allowed them to point the finger at us and blame us for decisions they wanted to make. Certainly players wanted every spec to be viable, and a huge portion of us wanted smaller group content made available, but I certainly don't recall anyone asking for instance for the initial Wrath heroics to be so easy, or Naxx to be as much as a walk in the park as it was ( we were actually disappointed with it as we cleared it in the first night. We were expecting something like Kara which took us a couple months to get down)
  1. Drpizka's Avatar
    Well, back on EU- Silvermoon that I was on BC, top guilds didn't have any problems recruiting

    I think that there were groups doing all attunment quests, but I am not sure.. I did my attunment quest chain while in a PUG though!


    Anyway, my point is : Play the game at the level you (or your guild) can play. If you want to experience end game --> devote time and progress.
  1. Laylriana's Avatar
    In WOTLK I thought the way Blizzard handled letting everyone look at the endgame cinematic at the fountain in the center of town was very well done. I remember the fountain was plain until the first guild got him down and that was quite a ways into the expac. I logged in one day and went to the fountain and there were statues around it and a plaque I could click and see Arthas taken down by Fordring. That satisfied my curiosity since my guild was stuck on Sindy and never got to the LK until cataclysm when we had more gear. I had gotten to see the lore.
  1. Armourboy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Drpizka View Post
    Well, back on EU- Silvermoon that I was on BC, top guilds didn't have any problems recruiting

    I think that there were groups doing all attunment quests, but I am not sure.. I did my attunment quest chain while in a PUG though!


    Anyway, my point is : Play the game at the level you (or your guild) can play. If you want to experience end game --> devote time and progress.

    We did too if you were referring to the Kara one, but the ones after that required you to down the content first ( TK and SSC) before you could move on. I could definitely remember a ton of complaints on the WoW forums from " top guilds" who were tired of needing to go back and clear those places just to be able to move people into current content as replacements. You saw many of the same complaints back in Vanilla as well in regards to that content.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    That part annoys me. No not everyone has the capability to do anything. Yes that is something you tell your young child "You can be president one day" but in fact he won't.
    Not everybody is good at Math, not everybody is good at art, not everybody can run at olympic levels, no matter how hard they try.
    And not everybody can do heroic raids. I was in a family guild with really nice but really bad people. We had people that died every time for example with Imperial Vizier Zor'loks spiral thingy. We tried and tried and told them different tactics and said that they should do nothing at all on the second platform but try to survive the spiral running but they still died every single time.
    And it was like that in every encounter. The bad thing was.. they really loved raiding.
    So don't tell me everybody can do anything. They couldn't, no matter how often we tried and no matter how easy we made it for them. And that was on normal.
    There are a lot of players that are not good at the raid dancing game. Oh dancing makes me remember Heigan. In all Naxx we didn't have a single run where everybody survived. Usually it was me and 2 others that killed him in the end, everyone else was dead. Even after months they still died there.
    So they should make everyone president.
  1. Khiva's Avatar
    Haha, and now we know why developers, moderators and representatives all have to be excessively PC, or just avoid posting anything all-together. Ghostcrawler makes one mild and amusing comment that may or may not have been at WoW's expense, in a LoL forum, and a bunch of WoW players still manage to jump down his throat for it like he's not human.
  1. Shilien's Avatar
    The real funny part is the actual dumbing down of the game (and the coinciding loss of subscriptions) didn't start until GC actually joined the team. Sounds like he just had the wrong job all along, based on his comments after leaving. That he's sitting there and making it sound like it wasn't his fault for the past however many years is pretty disingenuous.

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