Raid Finder Archimonde Nerfs, Timewalking Rewards Cost Changes, Tweets, FinalBoss #93

Wow quite a drop from 50,000 timewarped badges to 5000 for the mounts.

Can anyone confirm if we still get 150 badges per boss and 250 for a final boss?

Went in on an alt. My group got to 10 stacks, and even with a 50% damage buff we had DPS doing under 20k (3 of those were being out DPSed by a Disc Priest). They were not just auto attacking either, abilities were being used yet somehow they were that bad. I understand LFR is supposed to be easy, but it should never get so easy that you can ignore every mechanic and play your character completely wrong and still win. At that point its no different then watching a video. Actually, at that point a video of a mythic kill would probably be better.

Its like people want to walk into the raid and have Lorewalker Cho tell them a story of the great battle that took place, then hand them loot and move to the next boss room to repeat.

At least now the people that say : "lfr is like normal and heroic with less damage" and that lfr players deserve rewards can finally shut up.For the first time they made an lfr boss SLIGHTLY harder ( its sstill piss easy if you bother watch whats happening around you) and the stacks reack insane numbers.I didnt even know you can go further than 5 and that it was the cap.BUt we cant let the looking for gear difficulty to become even a bit challenging so lets nerf it to pew pew mode

Originally Posted by Kurosu

At least now the people that say : "lfr is like normal and heroic with less damage" and that lfr players deserve rewards can finally shut up.For the first time they made an lfr boss SLIGHTLY harder ( its sstill piss easy if you bother watch whats happening around you) and the stacks reack insane numbers.I didnt even know you can go further than 5 and that it was the cap.BUt we cant let the looking for gear difficulty to become even a bit challenging so lets nerf it to pew pew mode

Pretty sure Blizzard did this intentionally to test how it would be if they kept mechanics of normal/heroic in lfr for future references.
Test is done, now they know.

ITT people confusing real difficulty with mouth breathers being AFK or alt tabbed.

Originally Posted by Turaska

They should add Ogri-la reputation badges to the time walking vendor, doing the dailies at level 100 for Ogri'la is near impossible due to how damage works on lower monsters, you literally have to get a low level character to come and do it for you.

Um ... if you're talking about the nether ray one, you realize you can capture them at full health now, don't you? I did the dailies on my level 100 shaman back around February-March of this year. I never had one die on me and I never had to take my gear off or get resurrection sickness because I could just use the rope immediately. No fighting needed.

Orgi'la hasn't been impossible for a while. Although I do agree rep tokens should be added for it. All TBC and WotLK reps should get one. Mag'har/Kurenei is also missing as are the Sha'tari Skyguard, the Oracles, Frenzyheart, Silver Covenant, and the Sunreavers.

****

As for Archimonde, sucks they're nerfing it. Blizzard tends to overnerf so can't wait to go in and sneeze on Archimonde to make him fall over. He should be hard. People have been complaining that LFR is too easy. He's a nice wake up call (as is Xhul'horac and Mannoroth). None of the fights are even that hard. Just requires people to *gasp* pay attention! But his difficulty doesn't equal his reward so he might as well get nerfed if they're not going to buff his rewards.

And with the mount price reduction, it's rather funny that I said the prices should be dropped by like 90-95% because the original price would have taken people like 2 years to get one mount. Now you can get it in a weekend. Bit of an overnerf, but I'll likely be going after the toys after the mounts and then heirloom upgrades after that. I'll be doing timewalkers for a while to upgrade my heirlooms.

Originally Posted by Inarius

Agree. Some people find Archimonde hard because the fight requires you to have a brain and a little patience if you wipe.

Aye I have to agree, and I bet people who has tryed any non-LFR raids will agree on that.

We reached 10 stacks and wiped another 2 times after that. We disbanded after that.

We managed to change over 110 ppl during those 12 wipes. The bs we want to see the story get the best loot available but put zero effort is beyond me.

If u want to see the lore and story stay and try to complete the game if your goal is to do it via lfr.

4 dps with 7.7k-11.9k with 10 stacks

1 healer with 9k hps with 10 stacks

On try No9 we have 71 million dmg taken from doom fires. First 3 had 31/11/9 million each on a single try.

I mean i know its lfr and ment to be easu and forgiving but jesus christ i never seen something similar even if i compare it with durumu or lei shen.

Originally Posted by Saiona

LFR archimonde is piss easy compared to the already piss easy normal archimonde where you can go get your class trinket :^) Peasant mode shouldnt drop useful items.

Okay, someone obviously hasn't done Archimonde in LFR yet. General LFR player base is for whatever reason absolutely incapable of coping with Archimonde's mechanics. Pretty sure it has to do with their typical inability to recognize that fire is hot.

Based on the typical skill level of those who raid normal difficulty, yes Normal Archimonde isn't altogether that difficult. Based on the typical skill level of those who raid LFR, LFR Archimonde is absurdly difficult. You can argue how piss easy it is all you want but the player base it is designed for is wiping on it continuously, a phenomena they haven't had to experience before. If we want to get away from the one-shot everything mentality that LFR has then Archimonde is probably in a good place, but LFR has never really required strategizing or learning while attempting before so it's unrealistic to tell the LFR community to do so now.

I would love being able to use LFR to get some of my alts the legendary ring as it is faster to get into and finish than Normal mode (which is frankly a let down in terms of gear for alts with only 5/13 bosses dropping items better than those attainable in Tanaan, tier and trinkets being exceptions). I currently hate doing Xhul, Mannoroth and Archimonde because being one of the few people that survives mechanics doesn't mean the boss dies and does mean that I get to spent at least another 10 minutes attempting a boss that should have died.

Originally Posted by Kurosu

At least now the people that say : "lfr is like normal and heroic with less damage" and that lfr players deserve rewards can finally shut up.For the first time they made an lfr boss SLIGHTLY harder ( its sstill piss easy if you bother watch whats happening around you) and the stacks reack insane numbers.I didnt even know you can go further than 5 and that it was the cap.BUt we cant let the looking for gear difficulty to become even a bit challenging so lets nerf it to pew pew mode

I don't recall anyone ever claiming that. Take it easy , nerd boy. Blizzard is not giving out any LFR rewards. So technically, LFR should be what "you" claim it is suppose to be, a tourist mode. It should not have any difficulty at all. Why should an LFR boss be even remotely difficult?

The only reason to do LFR Archimonde is for the story (all of the gear in LFR is awful compared to what you can get from Apexis dailies or other avenues). There's no real reason to run it more than once apart from that--it's absolutely not worth waiting in the queue for the chance at one more Tome--so I'm not sure it should be that much more difficult than the rest of LFR. Given that story is the only real reason to be there, I feel there's no need for it to be so tough on the typical LFR crew, especially given that it's the "final" chapter in the story of the entire expansion. Seems a shame to have so many people stumble in frustration right at the end.

As for those saying they should "grow a brain" etc.., that's a fine thing to say when you're talking about a premade group, but when it's 25 complete strangers thrown together regardless of their experience, skill or attention span, expecting them to tackle harder content is kind of a big ask, particularly when--especially given that it's LFR--there are bound to be half a dozen players that are either outright trolling or are just so bad they drag the whole team down, and that Vote to Kick function has some rather large holes in it and doesn't ensure that the replacement will be any better. That becomes even more pronounced when the baddie in question happens to be the tank.

LFR rewards have already been nerfed into oblivion for silly reasons. Let them finish their story and move on.

People complaining there's nothing to spend time on in WoW.
Don't want to last more than 10 fights per week on Archimonde.
Classic.

oh thank zeus. it would have taken over 100 dungeons to get just one of the timewalking mounts

Bad players wanting bigger bites spoon fed to them. They never are satisfied until they have to put in absolutely no effort or thought into it.

Originally Posted by tj119

Bad players wanting bigger bites spoon fed to them. They never are satisfied until they have to put in absolutely no effort or thought into it.

The issue is:

-LFR is full of randoms with 0 communication. This is not an organized raid on Ventrillo...these are 25 random people who pressed a queue button (this is the biggest issue)
-Blizzard themselves called LFR a "Tourist Mode". Archimonde on LFR is anything but. While most bosses on LFR have mechanics severely tweaked (or even removed) he maintains ALL of his mechanics they just do a little less damage. After beating him on LFR I felt like I went through a Normal or Heroic progression boss, and I didn't even need gear from the guy. It felt extremely overtuned when you consider the quality of the gear the drops from him: 685 ilvl. You can get better by just doing Tanaan jungle.

So they either need to lower his difficulty on LFR, or increase the quality of his loot to match his difficulty. Make him drop 700ilvl loot or something similar to the lower-end of Normal HFC ilvls.

I have more or less exclusively done LFR this expansion on an alliance and horde DPS. There are two core problems with LFR that i see

1. Everyone assumes everyone else has already done it successfully. This results in little instruction being given out before a pull and very impatient people when the group wipes or someone makes a mistake. I've seen people melt down as if they were just knocked out of the running for realm first kill.
2. Half the group is in a huge rush and the other half mostly doesn't care. This results in weird pulls being made to reset cooldowns that can result in wipes or two tiny trash mobs being skipped that ends up killing people and causing delays/wipes, or the classic "can't stop watching netflix long enough to move out of the fire" mishaps that cause delays/wipes.

The Journal has a decent breakdown of what's going to happen in the fight but there is no way to transfer that to the raid other than verbal instructions . That is difficult when there is no one actually in charge (because random queue) and the experienced players will only speak up when there is a failure.

It's difficult to deal with #2 when you get so many different types of people in one raid group but communication is key in raids and something about Warlords has completely shut down all group/raid communication from what i've seen. People don't even say hi any more unless someone says hi first. I've lost track of the # of LFR groups where no one says a single word even when i start off with a "hello!" or something. You want things to go smooth? People need to get back to talking.

As far as education, it would be nice if they (or DBM) could allow someone in the raid to post summarized instructions to people's screens in a vignette style. I'm kind of shocked that this hasn't happened already, actually. Most bosses are reached by crossing some threshold via corridor. There could easily be a trigger line somewhere in the last 50 meters to the bosses room that starts a role-based animation of the boss's name and the things to watch out for down the side of the screen while everyone gets into position.

"Gruul
DPS Tips:

• Stack on or near other players in your assigned location to ensure you split Inferno Slice damage
• Move away from Cave In locations
• Sidestep Overhead Smash
• If affected by Petrify, move away from other players to avoid spreading Shatter damage

Something like that would be very helpful as a baseline for everyone and then at least there is a common set of instructions people are operating from.

It's threads like this that remind me why I don't play anymore.


PS - Holinka is still a dick.

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

It's threads like this that remind me why I don't play anymore.


PS - Holinka is still a dick.

Could you at least be more specific? Because its replies like this that can make reading threads like this a chore with the vague comments and unnecessary personal attacks.

Ahh yes, the "everyone wants everything handed to them" when they want something *easier*.
Easier / less time consuming != "handed" to you.

Effort : Reward ratio is important and fact is -- the generation now is *different* than, say, Vanilla's generation which is different than UO's generation.

You laugh, but I openly MOCKED people like you back when I played older MMO's when you started in Vanilla or later. Vanilla was for filthy casuals. BC made it easier. I came in during Wrath (funny enough) and picked things up pretty quickly. It was AMAZING how fast you leveled (relative to my former experience) and how fast you got gear.

In addition the scale of things is different. Things scale stupidly potent now so it nearly makes them a requirement to *begin* doing things.

But take away my experience and let's look at someone who maybe played Super Mario Brothers 3 or maybe Counter-Strike (where it's pretty balanced at the start, it's a purely skill game where WoW isn't).

Make a new character on another realm. No heirloom, no nothing. Start from scratch. It's daunting, annoying, and by the time you can raid and pvp you're already exhausted. NOW you begin the gearing process. Now you have to give praise to RNGeesus for loot. Oh, you're Horde? Good luck going against all the geared Alliance. Oh you picked the wrong realm and no one does the kind of raiding you like? Go re-roll on another realm and re-gear up.. or pay cash, which you may or may not have (imagine being a teenager).

You'll see how annoying and frustrating some of this can be. You come from a place of balance where *skill* is what mattered (say CS:GO) and in to a world where all you want is that damn shield / weapon / trinket to drop... and it doesn't. For weeks on end. Then it drops and it goes to someone else.

So imagine this paradigm shift for them. Then people on this forum come in, mock them for wanting it "easy" and then they just get discouraged and quit.

Losing half your player base in a single expansion means *something*. I'd like to think it was a combination of flying, PvP, and other things... but I'm starting to lean away from those and lean towards communities like this and Reddit where you're told to "just quit" over and over if you want something easier. Something that takes 6 weeks and you want it in 2, then being told because you want it in 2 that you want it "handed" to you. That argument won't get you anywhere except look like your entitled and just want to gloat over your work versus theirs.

To add to Gadzooks: Holinka is both a dick and a person incapable of leading a team for PvP. He should be demoted or fired and subsequently replaced.

But hey... I read over and over the past few years and keep hearing how everyone tells people to "just quit". And now we're at half sub base and shattered guilds. Are you happy now that those people quit and people just left? Are you going to be happier when it happens to your guild and you finally get the server ALL to yourself one day?

If the price for gear stays at 35 per item then timewalker is going to be a great time to gear up alts