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Legion - Max Camera Distance Reduction
The latest Legion build reduced the amount you can zoom out with the camera.


Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
This is one of this changes that we realize will be intensely unpopular with the group of players that has used console/WTF CVars to increase camera zoom beyond what the UI slider permits. For everyone else, they probably won't see what the big deal is, since it's removing a hidden option that most never used. But for those who are accustomed to an increased max zoom, it's changing the way you're experiencing the game in a way that feels restrictive and simply worse. So why would we do that?

In a broad range of gaming genres (from RTS to Action RPG), being able to zoom out and see more of the world around you provides an objective advantage in the form of information. Due to that competitive advantage, camera-unlocking or increased zoom distance are features commonly found in third-party hacks for a variety of games. Whatever the maximum allowed, that's what competitive players will use in order to maximize performance, even at the expense of the game's overall look and feel.

We strongly believe that there needs to be parity in this area between players who are using the default UI and those who have addons or knowledge of hidden console variables. One option was certainly to just allow the in-game slider to go all the way up to the CVar hardcap. But that scale is beyond the one around which the game was designed at its core. The development team builds the world, its art, its combat mechanics, and other interactions, around the base UI experience and scale. At the 3.4-CVar zoom level, your heroic Warcraft avatar takes up about as much screen-space as one of the dozens of marines you might control in a game of Starcraft.

Basically all of us started out playing WoW at the UI-enabled zoom level, and fell in love with that world enough that we now find ourselves here posting on an expansion beta forum discussing its future. At some point, we saw a raid video and wondered how they could see so much of the field at once, or we saw a forum post or got a helpful tip from another player, and learned that if you typed "/console CameraDistanceMaxFactor 4" you could zoom out way more, and we never looked back. But was that original experience bad, or have we just grown accustomed to something different?

There may also be a bit of hyperbole in the discussion around the change. This is a screenshot I just took with the max UI-selectable zoom settings in the current Legion build: http://i.imgur.com/e8vFT6t.jpg

I'm not sure it's fair to say that this level of zoom entails your character dominating the screen, or removes any awareness of nearby threats.

Finally, why did this happen suddenly now, late in the beta cycle, seemingly without any communication? Honestly, the intent was for the change to have been in place from early alpha onwards. I believe that what happened was that one of the CVars (CameraDistanceMaxFactor?) was clamped from the start, but a second CVar (CameraDistanceMax?) was overlooked. That issue was entered and tracked as a bug, and was just fixed recently. As a development team, at this point we're fixing up to 2000 Legion bugs a week, and it's not always obvious which player-facing build will contain a particular one of those fixes. This clearly wasn't something we ever imagined could just be swept under the carpet.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Legion - Max Camera Distance Reduction started by chaud View original post
Comments 795 Comments
  1. Redblade's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    No way they'll allow addons if consoles can't have them if you look at their reasoning for the camera slider.
    Not to mention that it wouldn't be streamlined for cheaper development...
  1. Caolela's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    You don't have cancer so cancer must be BS too, huh? What an asinine post.
    Except that people will make up any excuse because their fave thing was changed that now they don't like.

    Why not just say hey Blizz, fuck that, I/we don't want X or Y changed, not play on heart strings that it's some "medical" reason? ffs

    @ Lunal - I didn't say it doesn't happen or that you don't have such an issue. I said I don't know of anyone who's ever mentioned it, even in passing, thus it seems pretty rare as a problem.

    Let's just tell it like it is: people here are bitching because they want to be zoomed into the next zip code for whatever reason that they think gives them some advantage. Personally, I don't care either way because at a certain point, I think being zoomed out too far is a hindrance and I've never used it.

    IMO it's more the issue that Blizz is doing whatever they want to the game and have their own agenda, while they give short shrift to what their paying customers want. It isn't just one thing like this, it's the piling on of many things that have ruined the game.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Well, as Blizz fanbois love to say, it's their game, they can kill it if they want to.
    If they wanted to be hilarious dicks they'd say "We enjoyed your feedback about this issue and we agree the camera slider giving an advantage is the same as addons giving advantages. Based on your feedback we are no longer allowing addons."

    The funny thing is I'd be ok with that in theory cause it would be awesome if everyone was forced to raid without any help. But that magical plum drop fairy land can never exist. If they were to remove addon support then people would just continue to use them as hacks. You would be at an extreme disadvantage choosing not to use them and would have to decide if a possible ban is worth it.
  1. xact4's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Tbh with the amount of gutting coming to abilities I wouldn't be surprised if it gets released on the current or next gen consoles.
    The market for console wow is non-existent, and the ancient game engine would -never- allow for it. You guys are getting weird.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    Except that people will make up any excuse because their fave thing was changed that now they don't like.

    Why not just say hey Blizz, fuck that, I/we don't want X or Y changed, not play on heart strings that it's some "medical" reason? ffs
    I've seen about a dozen people here and on the beta thread mention this. That's an extreme minority and there were already threads about the nausea issue before in tight cramped dungeons that they ignored. This isn't going to change anything they see these people as an acceptable casualty. Saying they're making it up is ignorant. It's not a widespread enough issue that Blizzard is going to care about them anyways. Look at the addon comparison. It makes their whole argument void and you know Ion won't discuss it. What could they possibly say to counter that? He'll just ignore it, same as ignoring medical reasons cause they have no counter point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xact4 View Post
    The market for console wow is non-existent, and the ancient game engine would -never- allow for it. You guys are getting weird.
    A lot of people play other mmos on console, do you think that is weird? Opening up your game to hundreds of millions of possible customers isn't weird.
  1. Drusyn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    If they were to remove addon support then people would just continue to use them as hacks. You would be at an extreme disadvantage choosing not to use them and would have to decide if a possible ban is worth it.
    That or I'd probably play less. Not even because of DBM and raiding addons but addons like altoholic and savedinstances I couldn't live without lol. Try memorizing every daily you've done on a character capped account x_x All your profession CD's who has completed missions, who you've solo'd raids on, how much honor do you have on mage #6? I would rather have the eastern wow system where you pay as you go in that situation.
  1. Cazmosis's Avatar


    A lot of people play other mmos on console, do you think that is weird? Opening up your game to hundreds of millions of possible customers isn't weird.

    Hundreds of millions, huh. Tell me more about these "possibilities." The clarity with which you seem to grasp all concepts surrounding this game. Always so free of logic pitfalls.
  1. Caolela's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    I've seen about a dozen people here and on the beta thread mention this. That's an extreme minority and there were already threads about the nausea issue before in tight cramped dungeons that they ignored. This isn't going to change anything they see these people as an acceptable casualty. Saying they're making it up is ignorant. It's not a widespread enough issue that Blizzard is going to care about them anyways. Look at the addon comparison. It makes their whole argument void and you know Ion won't discuss it. What could they possibly say to counter that? He'll just ignore it, same as ignoring medical reasons cause they have no counter point.
    I had edited my above post before I saw this, which is really more in line with what you're saying. Actually, I've always hated the tight, cramped areas because they're too hard to see wtf is going on to respond well to mobs. I think it's also a cheap way to create a certain difficulty in lieu of using other mechanics.
  1. mmoc93b0a7f85d's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Cazmosis View Post
    B: I wouldn't suggest trying to pretend you know what's happening with the motivations and decisions made to this game.
    You are bound to get speculation when its obvious the reasons given for the change aren't true.
  1. mmoc5829d1e13c's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    The reason they gave made no sense because they're trying to come up with a good reasonable explanation but can't. They can't tell us the real reason cause it will start riots. Probably something like the camera slider doesn't work on consoles and they don't want pc players having an advantage. But they're not ready to spring the console shit on us just yet so they need to make stuff up.
    They could have just made a max slider wich went to a certain point wich they wanted to be max and beyond. But when you go beyond their point and a warning message will pop up that you cant use the new camera future if you put this setting up. Maybe same when you try to use the new camera future it says something like "please put camera distance to medium to use this feature".

    Them saying its a advantage to raiding and such is just dumb. Like alot of people said they made certain bosses to big.
  1. Lunal's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    I didn't say it doesn't happen or that you don't have such an issue. I said I don't know of anyone who's ever mentioned it, even in passing, thus it seems pretty rare as a problem.

    Let's just tell it like it is: people here are bitching because they want to be zoomed into the next zip code for whatever reason that they think gives them some advantage. Personally, I don't care either way because at a certain point, I think being zoomed out too far is a hindrance and I've never used it.

    IMO it's more the issue that Blizz is doing whatever they want to the game and have their own agenda, while they give short shrift to what their paying customers want. It isn't just one thing like this, it's the piling on of many things that have ruined the game.
    I don't have a problem with the opinion that people are fine with the change. I have a problem with the idea that someone feels the need to discredit my problem because it's not their problem or because it's not a problem many people have. I had a problem with you calling valid concerns 'bs' and implying I was lying just because I wanted to 'pull at someone's heartstrings'. It irked me, so I responded. I already said I haven't experienced it, so I can't know for sure, it is just my guess. I also said I have a problem with it on base for raiding/world view purposes. I never lied about my reasons, I just have multiple.

    No one may listen, but I eliminate the possibility if I don't speak up. If everyone thinks this way, changes we hate will always go through uncontested instead of starting a dialogue and creating change or compromise. It has happened in the past (look at WoD flying or water striders).
  1. dopefishz's Avatar
    Oh my... I really hope they revert this change. Legion is looking promising so far, but this change makes me want to quit.
    Seriously who came up with this idea ? 'Sooooooo, we pruned so many abilities... what's left that we can remove ?' - 'Uhhmmm, how about this old /console command that let's you zoom out very far ?' - 'Great idea ! We'll just say that there weren't too many using this command. Now back to work !'

    Fuck this. There will be an addon or another work-around available and I sure as hell will use it.
  1. Yakshamash's Avatar
    Why the fuck people (who never used camera max settings or macro) complaining about people who used max distance camera? Are you seriously so much fanatic about your precious Blizzard? Will you fucking eat own shit if Blizzard asks so in blue posts? Fucking scrubs...
  1. MakeMeLaugh's Avatar
    Fucking blizz, I swear. Now they are even prunning console commands, what the fuck STOP!
  1. Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunal View Post
    No one may listen, but I eliminate the possibility if I don't speak up. If everyone thinks this way, changes we hate will always go through uncontested instead of starting a dialogue and creating change or compromise. It has happened in the past (look at WoD flying or water striders).
    Indeed. People are content being asshats and "LOL it's a non-issue!!!" about topics that they personally don't give a shit about/have a problem with. One day, it'll concern something they enjoy/care about.
  1. Shinagami091's Avatar
    The camera distance console command is something that wasn't widely used because the majority of people didn't even know about it. It doesn't make sense that in this day and age, especially when Blizzard is losing subscribers left and right, that they would remove a feature that's been in the game since as far back as I can remember instead of improving upon it like making it available in the options or default it so new players can easily use it also
  1. Caolela's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Indeed. People are content being asshats and "LOL it's a non-issue!!!" about topics that they personally don't give a shit about/have a problem with. One day, it'll concern something they enjoy/care about.
    Well, giving Lunal the benefit of the doubt as I did, there are still a whole lot of bullshitters on this and WoW forums that use whatever excuse. We've all seen it.

    However as I also said, I have more of a problem with Blizz changing things that make no sense from a player's viewpoint, instead it benefits Blizz in some way that doesn't seem apparent at first glance. You can bet your last RNG strongbox that they wouldn't have gone out of their way to do this if it did not have potential to increase profits/reduce overhead - and a big 'fuck you' to players if they like it or not.
  1. Elim Garak's Avatar
    The further you zoom out the less profit Blizzard gets.
  1. uxzuigal's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Ion, please stop posting on sock puppets. Thanks.
    I've got no idea what you are talking about.
  1. mmoca75c1ad8b1's Avatar
    Don't they realize how fukin stupid it will be to raid and kill bosses as melee and even ranged?? Most of the bosses are huge and all u gonna see is its feet or whatever. With zoomout possibility u could actually see the entire boss. Was not sure if i buy this expansion, but if this goes live im sure i wont.

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