Patch 7.1.5 PTR - Build 23194

the useless rogue bracers that where going to be useless continue to be useless.

Guardian nerfs... wut? Why? Seems a bit odd, especially when many are still waiting for some Feral changes.

So nerfing guardians even more?

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

A build that requires a 25% buff across the board should never have reached the live servers. That's just unacceptable.

I think it's time to start thinking about replacing some devs...

Well, the whole spec has been gutted, no level 100 talent changes aside from a rename and "experimental" mind spike. SPriest changed to something utterly different to what we chose at live a few months in... Something they promised wouldn't happen.

Just seems that they are wrecking the flow of it just to dampen S2M, don't have a clue how it will perform and just throw numbers at it until it's middle pack.

Coincidental that the alt-AK transfer items are coming with this?

How many class tuning changes that are this sweeping are going to be implemented before blizz outright admits they need to hit the fucking drawing board again.

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

A build that requires a 25% buff across the board should never have reached the live servers. That's just unacceptable.

I think it's time to start thinking about replacing some devs...

I bet you play Mage or Warlock

So we get a 25% dmg increase outside voidform and a 15% dmg increase in voidform. I'm taking it with a handfull of salt, since in ptr everyone says that dots drop so fast you have to recast them all the time while you dont even get to cast Void Torrent. :/

Originally Posted by prwraith

How many class tuning changes that are this sweeping are going to be implemented before blizz outright admits they need to hit the fucking drawing board again.

According to them only Shadow priests (high damage) and Warlocks (rotation) need a rework. But we will have to wait a see, they might aswell throw a every class in a cauldron and start stirring.

Originally Posted by Khorneflake

Well, the whole spec has been gutted, no level 100 talent changes aside from a rename and "experimental" mind spike. SPriest changed to something utterly different to what we chose at live a few months in... Something they promised wouldn't happen.

Just seems that they are wrecking the flow of it just to dampen S2M, don't have a clue how it will perform and just throw numbers at it until it's middle pack.

Coincidental that the alt-AK transfer items are coming with this?

So it's like every expansion when it comes to shadows. Not only that it has to fit a different role every expansion(once it was a "go to" spec for PvP, especially 1on1...and ever since it's a 1on1 loot pinata...then it was a mix of healer, buff-helper and mana battery, aoe-dd, single target dd...and so on...why we haven't been tank yet, is a miracle)...it as well usually has a priroity stat change within an expansion.
S2M just sucks. To kill your own char just so some top equipped dudes can perform at high end raid bosses, while essentially being crap in everything else is just catering to elitists.

When does shadow finally get something were it really is great in? Or is "killing itself"(via S2M...or in PvP via dispersion 6 second self-silence, which is equal to killing yourself) is our trait? I mean, warlocks are better in dotting and our healing isn't great either...cc is sup par, we get ripped apart faster than anyone else without of being a glass cannon(glass, yes, but they forgot the cannon part. A warlock hits you for a million with 1 spell and still has more survivability) and so on.

Originally Posted by Pacster

So it's like every expansion when it comes to shadows. Not only that it has to fit a different role every expansion(once it was a "go to" spec for PvP, especially 1on1...and ever since it's a 1on1 loot pinata...then it was a mix of healer, buff-helper and mana battery, aoe-dd, single target dd...and so on...why we haven't been tank yet, is a miracle)...it as well usually has a priroity stat change within an expansion.
S2M just sucks. To kill your own char just so some top equipped dudes can perform at high end raid bosses, while essentially being crap in everything else is just catering to elitists.

When does shadow finally get something were it really is great in? Or is "killing itself"(via S2M...or in PvP via dispersion 6 second self-silence, which is equal to killing yourself) is our trait? I mean, warlocks are better in dotting and our healing isn't great either...cc is sup par, we get ripped apart faster than anyone else without of being a glass cannon(glass, yes, but they forgot the cannon part. A warlock hits you for a million with 1 spell and still has more survivability) and so on.

Whether it caters to elitists or not, you do not release something in a state where it needs complete rework in 3 months time especially after being promised that it wouldn't happen. By the way, "elitists" and "skilled" are not the same thing, the skill gap and margin of which that gap is enormous should have been addressed in alpha/beta, not leave it till now after everyone who enjoyed it and poured time in now finds it boring. The funny part is that it's not the S2M they are harming the most it's the fast paced gameplay, gone.

Personally I think VF&S2M was the best thing to happen to spriest, both are perfectly fine in dungeons (high mythic+ especially) and it always leaves room for improvement, if people who raid on an spriest complain about it's current form then I have no sympathy for them, raiders should always strive to improve and if we didn't we'd end up with pure patchwork bosses every expansion and no challenge. For casuals it's different because it's very true that little else remains for them other than S2M, and they are forced to "git gud" or die and have no reward which isn't ideal and I agree completely.

All they had to do was tackle the real problem which is MH and it's scaling, make the other two tier 100's more inviting for different content and give us better pvp talents. Not strip out lingering insanity and throw it on the same talent row as reaper of souls just for the sake of choice (and an obvious ninja nerf to pre-S2M voidtime because the other two 100 talents are still awful) we're now left with a slow, boring and watered down version of what we already have.

They can't be serious with the guardian golden trait nerf. 15% chance on a mangle to get a reduction of ~11 rage. What's the point? If they want to nerf our rage generation just replace the whole trait with something that's actually worthy to be a golden trait.

Originally Posted by Khorneflake

Well, the whole spec has been gutted, no level 100 talent changes aside from a rename and "experimental" mind spike. SPriest changed to something utterly different to what we chose at live a few months in... Something they promised wouldn't happen.

Yeah, but it needed to happen. I still remember the hell that was trying to level my shadow priest main through Legion content. It was infuriating to see yourself struggling to kill a single mob, only to hop on your warrior alt and be able to pull seven at a time without breaking a sweat. The whole balancing around SPriests at launch, where we only became effective after maxing out most of our artifacts and with S2M, was terrible design-wise. We were without a doubt the worst spec at launch.

So overall, I'm generally welcoming the post-launch changes, which have already made quality of life a lot better for the spec. We really do need to have S2M replaced though; it's dominance and costliness to use is problematic to say the least.

Originally Posted by logintime

Yeah, but it needed to happen. I still remember the hell that was trying to level my shadow priest main through Legion content. It was infuriating to see yourself struggling to kill a single mob, only to hop on your warrior alt and be able to pull seven at a time without breaking a sweat. The whole balancing around SPriests at launch, where we only became effective after maxing out most of our artifacts and with S2M, was terrible design-wise. We were without a doubt the worst spec at launch.

So overall, I'm generally welcoming the post-launch changes, which have already made quality of life a lot better for the spec. We really do need to have S2M replaced though; it's dominance and costliness to use is problematic to say the least.

Thing is in today's wow leveling is done in 2-3 days not weeks, they could fix the problem by giving us some useful talents in our 100 row rather than redoing the spec which has an adverse effect on everything you do with that spriest after you ding 110. Don't like this stigma that if something is the worst at something it somehow has to be improved, something is always the worst at one aspect or another, if that's not accepted then everything just gets diluted.

I'd never want to see S2M removed, it's too much fun and offers absolutely endless opportunity to do it better that next pull, that being said the other talents need to be inviting to other players that do different content and currently that's not the case.

Leave s2m alone, nerf MH and make other talents more viable... Don't understand why they've gone to great lengths changing everything again.

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

A build that requires a 25% buff across the board should never have reached the live servers. That's just unacceptable.

I think it's time to start thinking about replacing some devs...

Blizzard has the best game developing talent in the world. Who are you going to replace them with? Next time, don't post such stupid things.

Originally Posted by mainrak

I bet you play Mage or Warlock

When I played, I played both. I dropped my sub in the first week of WOD. Don't see much reason to come back. I'm still interested in the game, and I've been watching "my" classes in case I ever decide to return, but what they did to my main with rogues, and locks...nah. I'm good.

I understand they gutted the classes. And I stand by my opinion that a class that requires a 25% buff across the board is a class that should never have been released - and that Celestalon is in over his head, he and his team are fucking up, big time. They took on too much, without enough time. They're also way too slow to react. That locks are so broken at this point, that they won't even be addressed in this patch should be grounds to seriously take a look at the class team and their leadership. Locks arent the only broken class, either.

This isn't a case of whining or complaining for the sake of complaining. Class stability is important. Players should'nt be forced to relearn or respec their characters multiple times throughout an expansion. Raid leaders shouldn't have to deal with the viability of players changing so often - they need to know how to compose their teams, and not have to wonder if they need to drop some classes entirely each patch. These broken classes and the changes they're making are disruptive to the game overall, and it's something players shouldn't be dealing with - it should have been dealt with during beta.

It's bad enough that they have to prove to players that WOD was an outlier and a mistake, and that players can trust them - now they're squandering any regained trust with how they're handling this issue, and how slowly they're addressing it.

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

When I played, I played both. I dropped my sub in the first week of WOD. Don't see much reason to come back. I'm still interested in the game, and I've been watching "my" classes in case I ever decide to return, but what they did to my main with rogues, and locks...nah. I'm good.

I understand they gutted the classes. And I stand by my opinion that a class that requires a 25% buff across the board is a class that should never have been released - and that Celestalon is in over his head, he and his team are fucking up, big time. They took on too much, without enough time. They're also way too slow to react. That locks are so broken at this point, that they won't even be addressed in this patch should be grounds to seriously take a look at the class team and their leadership. Locks arent the only broken class, either.

This isn't a case of whining or complaining for the sake of complaining. Class stability is important. Players should'nt be forced to relearn or respec their characters multiple times throughout an expansion. Raid leaders shouldn't have to deal with the viability of players changing so often - they need to know how to compose their teams, and not have to wonder if they need to drop some classes entirely each patch. These broken classes and the changes they're making are disruptive to the game overall, and it's something players shouldn't be dealing with - it should have been dealt with during beta.

It's bad enough that they have to prove to players that WOD was an outlier and a mistake, and that players can trust them - now they're squandering any regained trust with how they're handling this issue, and how slowly they're addressing it.

I didnt mean to make it sound like you were complaining, its that we S.priest, locks and mage are the only Cloth-casters so its normal to compete each other.
I agree with everything and thanks for the name (i know now who to blame ).
I really cant understand what the class designer are doing when some players are giving their well constracted feedback. I know its their job and they are focused (maybe) in it, but maybe they are focusing too much. They need to take a step back and look at it with a fresh eye while also listening for opinions. These are the same principles for art, but they aren't artists, are they? :/

Originally Posted by paflodder

Any news on ret ?? Buffs , nerf's anything ?

Ret does not need anymore damage.

That legendary ring nerf on balance druid is extremely bad for us, why even nerf a class that cant even compete in raids?