Artifact Power and Patch 7.2
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Artifact Power has been a hot topic lately, both around the community and within the development team. With Patch 7.2 on the horizon, introducing both new artifact traits and additional Knowledge levels, we have been reflecting on the way the system has unfolded during the first months of Legion, and evaluating changes based on the lessons we have learned thus far.

First off, a look back at where we started.

From the outset, Artifact Power was intended to serve two intertwined purposes: First, it offered max-level progression that was not entirely item-driven, along with choices and elements of character customization as players traversed their trait trees; second, it was meant to serve as a universally desired, consistent reward from all types of content.

In crafting the systems that delivered Artifact Power, we weighed the merits of hard caps versus a smoother system of diminishing returns. We had extensive experience with hard caps, through multiple past iterations of currencies like Valor Points and Conquest Points, and wanted to avoid several of the downsides of that approach. For example, a cap inherently feels like more of an expected quota, where missing a week or falling short of the cap puts you clearly, and potentially permanently, behind the curve.

Instead, as everyone knows, we settled on an open-ended system of diminishing returns. Without any hard caps on how quickly players could earn AP, it was essential to have some sort of limiting mechanism on the gap in power between players of different playstyles, and different levels of time investment. We accepted the admittedly complex design of Artifact Knowledge because it solved this problem, effectively reining in the size of this power gap. Players trying to progress past the expected artifact level for their Knowledge would run into those rapidly diminishing returns, while those who played less than that would have Knowledge as an accelerator to help them catch up to the cutting edge. When Emerald Nightmare was new content, while the average raider was at 20 or 21 points, the most dedicated might have been at 24 or 25 – a relatively modest gap.

Now, where things went wrong…

We feel that we made two major missteps with the Artifact Power system that increasingly manifested themselves as we got deeper into Patch 7.1 and 7.1.5. And both of them served to undermine that core goal of ensuring that the gap between players with different levels of time invested into the system could not grow too large.

First, the cost of ranks in the 20-point final trait remained relatively flat, as opposed to the rapid exponential scaling up to that point. This meant that someone who spent twice as much time gathering AP as I did would have roughly twice as many ranks as me. Instead of the 24 vs. 21 gaps we saw in Nightmare, a number of hardcore raiders entered Nighthold with 54 points, while others were just beginning that final progression and found themselves with nearly 10% less health and damage, equivalent to being almost a full tier of gear behind. Players who switched specs or characters along the way found themselves in a similar position. The power gap was larger than ever before, which created a sense of obligation and a number of negative social pressures that the system had previously tried to minimize. In short: We’re not at all happy with how this worked out.

A common suggestion is to simply reduce the amount of Artifact Power required to fully unlock the artifact in 7.2. This would not solve the underlying problem, but would rather reduce its duration while heightening its intensity, as competitive players sprinted to finish their Artifacts in order to be “ready.” But then we would inevitably tune around that completed power level, and other players would simply be playing catch-up the entire time. And in the long run, Artifact Power would not be serving its intended purpose of ongoing parallel progression. A capped-artifact player who goes a week without getting any item upgrades ends the week literally no stronger than before. Part of the value of the artifact, both for personal progression and guild progression, lies in ensuring that everyone is at least a bit stronger next week than they are right now, and a bit closer to overcoming whatever obstacle stands in their path. Our goal is for Artifact Power to always be of some interest as a reward, whether from a World Quest, or as a consolation prize when failing a bonus roll.

Instead, we are focusing on fixing the mistake of flat cost scaling at the end of the progression, and instead keeping the increases exponential throughout, while also strengthening Artifact Knowledge as a core pacing and catch-up mechanism. These changes should be visible in an upcoming PTR build.

This is done with the primary goal of reducing the power gap based on time investment, while preserving Artifact Power as an endgame reward that everyone values. If the leaders in Artifact Power were only a few points ahead of a more typical player, rather than crossing the finish line when most were just leaving the starting blocks, players with less time to commit would not be as disadvantaged in competitive activities. If a Warlock were choosing between having 48 points in a single spec or 44 points in all three specs if they’d split their efforts evenly, the barrier to playing multiple specs would be significantly reduced. We are still tuning the curve for 7.2 trait costs, but we’re currently targeting scaling such that someone who earns twice as much AP as me will have an artifact that’s only ~1.5% stronger; someone who earns four times as much AP as me should only be 3% stronger. On the whole, this should be a massive reduction in the power gaps we see in the live game today.

The second problem with our initial implementation was that repeatable sources of Artifact Power (Mythic Keystone dungeons in particular) dominated time-limited sources such as Emissary caches and raid bosses. The fact that a large portion of the community evaluates their Artifact Power needs using “Maw runs” as the unit of measurement is ample evidence of this failure. We very recently deployed a hotfix to increase AP earned from Nighthold in order to make raiding, with a weekly-lockout, better compare in efficiency to repeated Mythic Keystone runs. And in 7.2, we’re more thoroughly addressing this issue by adding a significant amount of AP to the weekly Mythic Keystone cache, while somewhat reducing (and normalizing based on instance length) the AP awarded by repeated runs. These changes are being made to narrow the gap in AP earning, and thus power, based on time investment.

All of the above changes are aimed at allowing players the freedom and flexibility to decide how they want to spend their time, and which goals they wish to pursue, while limiting the difference in power between players who arrive at different answers to those questions.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Artifact Power and Patch 7.2 started by chaud View original post
Comments 123 Comments
  1. Rilas13's Avatar
    The Mechanar problem 2.0
  1. erinthea's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Not a chance I believe this;

    I do my Cache, raid NH, LFR NH, run around 10-15 mythic pluses(+5-9) a week since AK25, AND IM ONLY at 43. If you are truly 880-885 geared, because you said you are raiding normal, and artifact 54, I'd like you to prove it. Because, I truly don't believe it.
    My character I am talking about is aarreder on dalaran check out my profile, I don't get why anyone would doubt that this was easily accomplished in fact within a week after getting my mainspec to 54 I got both alt specs to 35 again not grinding M+ dungeons, I basically throw all my tokens i get in normal gameplay to my second spec and am i think 38 or 39 on it now without trying as I did with my 54 on primary spec.
  1. mmocaad0a8dadd's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    This is just pants-on-head stupid. I've lost literally half of my raid size since the expansion started and almost all of those quitting the game put it down to artifact power burnout.

    Making it even harder to get traits in this fashion won't help anyone other than the most casual of players. What on earth are they thinking?
    but casual players ARE the intended target audience of this expansion... so it's all working 'fine'.

    this expansion is just culling the semi-hardcore players who want to raid, are capable of playing on mythic difficulty (nowhere near of wf race ofc but finishing it within the tier) but have no time to / don't want to do grinds... casual players are just happy they have something meaningful to do every time they log on and truly hardcore players will just do whatever they need to do to compete

    at least that's what i see from mine and my friends' anecdotal examples :P
  1. phantomlink's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Not a chance I believe this;

    I do my Cache, raid NH, LFR NH, run around 10-15 mythic pluses(+5-9) a week since AK25, AND IM ONLY at 43. If you are truly 880-885 geared, because you said you are raiding normal, and artifact 54, I'd like you to prove it. Because, I truly don't believe it.
    I don't M+ very often, my highest i've ever done was a +10 the other night. Since I started playing, I try to do my AP WQs every single day, only missing the odd days. I hit rank 54 with under 50 m+ dungeons done ( according to wowprogress ) back on Feb 4th

    https://www.wowprogress.com/characte...am/Phantomlink
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tomlink/simple

    I started playing Legion a good week behind it's launch, so I wasn't one of the first people in my guild to hit rank 25 either. On a good day I'd get almost 2 million AP if I got a good mix of world quests, an AP item from an honour level up and daily dungeons etc
  1. Airwaves's Avatar
    Hope this change works out. The moment 100% raid attendance no longer became enough I started to lose interest in WoW. To the point I almost want to quit. I fucking hate AP.
  1. mmoc3f73018074's Avatar
    They should just not cap the Artifact Knowledge, so people having less time have options later to come closer to the higher ones, maybe just the balance of how much hours you spent until the next % increase comes in should be adjusted to something like a "cap per week" ... e.g. if I do something 10 hours a week and next week I just need 5 hours for the same reward. I guess there is enough mathematic around to get a graph pointing out what a good increase per week should be as well as how much a dungeon boss should return.

    I still do not understand why a RAID boss still is less rewarding then endlessly doing the same shit... at least on mythic difficulty a boss should reward tons more AP then a complete M+0 run as a raid boss only exists once a week, needs strategy, a larger group, more preparation, and also takes for the first kills more time then these 10-20min M+X runs. I really would like to see this increased so a Raid gets the AP by raiding and not by farming endless shit... I even can not see dungeons anymore, and only 1 will come in the near future. I did more dungeon runs I did in LK + Cata + MoP + WoD together ( just guessing) - nearly 100 m+ on NL ... I can not understand why the game should reward boring stuff. A raider is forced to do this shit over and over again :-( does not really feel good.

    I do not know anyone who likes the current system which is like an endless grind... and the next grind comes up... if this is the only method to keep players active, then maybe find more rewards then this... also that AP system breaks the feeling you have when "something" drops... its like "oh no again this ring" - just a roll higher would have been better... and again and again... and then this point when you get something after 100 m+ which is better as a fucking Mythic Endboss kill... WTF :-(

    I don't feel it's balanced. The post sounds it's going in a direction to think about it, but it also sounds somehow like "you need to do even more to compete with others which have more freetime... (but less skill)".
  1. Exerionx's Avatar
    Should've just capped it at 35 points and left it there tbh. I'm sick of grinding all this AP in multiple specs to feel the need to stay competitive. Seriously fuck the AP system.
  1. Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by cateran View Post
    Just how old are you? Pretty young I guess if you think the amount is the important part and not the value of the service what you get for that money...can you explain to me why is that 50 cent necessary for WoW? To put simply: Why do you pay? (No, you are not paying for servers..D3, Overwatch, HS, SC2, HotS running on servers as well and no monthly fee for them...for the updates and patches? Every normal game release fixes and hell even content patches for free...or in DLC form, but that cost a lot less than what we pay for an expansion and per month..)
    I'm 30, how old are you? Having been a legal adult for a bit less than half my life and handling my own economy since I was 15, I'm quite capable of realizing that WoW is one of the cheapest forms of entertainment there is. However, "value of a service" is subjective in itself when concerning something as subjective as entertainment, something you should know if you're an adult. If you're going to act superior, at least show some proof of actually backing your attitude up. I've been getting amazing value for my money from WoW for 9 years. YOU (or others) not seeing value in it is quite frankly fucking irrelevant to me.

    And if you don't understand the difference between D3, OW, HS, SC2 and HoTS from WoW, that's an entirely different issue. If I enjoyed those very different games more than WoW, I would obviously play them instead. Meaning they have less value to me than WoW @ 50 cents per day. Not to mention that people can spend more money on games with micro-transactions in a month than they would on a subscription-based game, but if they think it's worth it I'm not arrogant enough to judge unlike some.

    The fact that you (and others that I assume to be adults) try to make 50 cents per day out to be this ENORMOUS waste of cash because it's spent on something you might not enjoy however, is pretty damned alarming... How tight on cash must one be to think that the price of 1 month's WoW access is outrageous on principle and that only F2P with micro-transactions out the wazoo is viable...?
  1. reid8470's Avatar
    I think it's a mistake on Blizzard's part to continue this artifact power grind. Here's how I think the system should work (as if what I think even matters):

    1. Artifact power should be applied to all artifact weapons on a character, regardless of spec. Alternatively, 50% of the AP you put into your active spec should go into your inactive specs.

    2. Artifact power should only apply to the first set of unique traits in a weapon, not to scaling bonus once traits are maxed. Have the % dmg/stam scaling be leveled via a maximum of 2 content-gated tokens (for 1% bonus) per week.

    3. Make these content-gated artifact trait tokens come from optional sources (i.e. 1 from weekly M+ chest, 1 from final raid boss, 1 from winning 4 BGs, 1 from clearing 4 mythic dungeons, 1 from the weekly Dalaran quest such as timewalking, etc.). Want to get your weekly +1% dmg/stamina from 2 tokens? Go kill Kil'jaeden, go clear 4 mythic dungeons, go loot your Mythic+ weekly chest, or whatever you want to do. Do this weekly for 10 weeks and your character's artifact weapons will be maxed out.

    4. Players still have titanforged gear to "grind" M+ for if that's what they want to do, but the infrequency of it relative to artifact power grinding would make it feel like less of an obligation and more of a choice.
  1. mmoc3c02903358's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by BoredomIncarnate View Post
    Player will be so distressed that they will be driven to play Sudoku? THE HORROR!

    (Just FYI, the word you are looking for is Seppuku. Sudoku is a puzzle game. If this is a joke I am not getting, ignore me.)
    I know Sudoku isn't the right word... Just a meme my man.
  1. ComputerNerd's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithildine View Post
    This does not address the issue you still cannot rerrol without harming your main character.
    AP has to be account wide in a way or another, rerroling should no more be punished to have more tanks and healers in the queue.
    We have had a shortage of tanks and healers before Legion.
    That isn't the issue.
    See how guild recruitments are just the opposite, seeking DPS.

    It being wider has a problem.
    On the one character, is it split and therefore worse off for those with more specs and better for those with less.

    On multiple characters I would argue as a catchup it is faster than any we had before, such as the improvement to quest drops during WoD ring progression which were simply not on a scale remotely similar to the increase artifact knowledge can offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by reid8470 View Post
    I think it's a mistake on Blizzard's part to continue this artifact power grind. Here's how I think the system should work (as if what I think even matters):

    1. Artifact power should be applied to all artifact weapons on a character, regardless of spec. Alternatively, 50% of the AP you put into your active spec should go into your inactive specs.

    2. Artifact power should only apply to the first set of unique traits in a weapon, not to scaling bonus once traits are maxed. Have the % dmg/stam scaling be leveled via a maximum of 2 content-gated tokens (for 1% bonus) per week.

    3. Make these content-gated artifact trait tokens come from optional sources (i.e. 1 from weekly M+ chest, 1 from final raid boss, 1 from winning 4 BGs, 1 from clearing 4 mythic dungeons, 1 from the weekly Dalaran quest such as timewalking, etc.). Want to get your weekly +1% dmg/stamina from 2 tokens? Go kill Kil'jaeden, go clear 4 mythic dungeons, go loot your Mythic+ weekly chest, or whatever you want to do. Do this weekly for 10 weeks and your character's artifact weapons will be maxed out.

    4. Players still have titanforged gear to "grind" M+ for if that's what they want to do, but the infrequency of it relative to artifact power grinding would make it feel like less of an obligation and more of a choice.
    1) Penalises any player that isn't a demon hunter with only two specs, unless you duplicate the result at which point it is unfair to anyone who isn't a druid.

    2) Simply another cap with the expectation that you meet it.
    3) Though it offering some improvement with the variety of sources for each.
    For a capped system, that is one of the better ones I have seen.
    Even though I think inherently a cap has that issue I described.
    A cap will always be black or white, you meet it or you don't.
  1. RuneDK's Avatar
    The whole....44 in three specs vs 48 in one is a shitty argument...It seems theyve completely forgotten about the legendary system they put in place. It's keeping you locked in a spec until you get all the current bis legendaries...which will eventually change...so you're better just keeping it locked to one spec. I would LOVE some resto legendaries, but that's never going to happen with this garbage system....I know they will have information soon enough with the new system they plan to implement, but honestly anything short of boa tokens(which would gimp your alts), them dropping significantly more frequently, or being tied to spec and not your character would be a failure to understand how bad the current system is.
  1. Requimortem's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Laciaty View Post
    but casual players ARE the intended target audience of this expansion... so it's all working 'fine'.

    this expansion is just culling the semi-hardcore players who want to raid, are capable of playing on mythic difficulty (nowhere near of wf race ofc but finishing it within the tier) but have no time to / don't want to do grinds... casual players are just happy they have something meaningful to do every time they log on and truly hardcore players will just do whatever they need to do to compete

    at least that's what i see from mine and my friends' anecdotal examples :P
    ...What?

    I know overwhelming ignorance is par for the course in this community but I find it astonishing that you could be that oblivious. This expansion is in no way directed at casuals. You have your seemingly endless grind for Artifact Power, random chances at getting a Legendary which may or may not be utterly useless, you're forced to raid to progress your professions and even the appearances/alternate colors of your artifact weapons require a stupid amount of work. World of Warcraft has never been more unfriendly to casual players.
  1. Supercool's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Requimortem View Post
    ...What?

    I know overwhelming ignorance is par for the course in this community but I find it astonishing that you could be that oblivious. This expansion is in no way directed at casuals. You have your seemingly endless grind for Artifact Power, random chances at getting a Legendary which may or may not be utterly useless, you're forced to raid to progress your professions and even the appearances/alternate colors of your artifact weapons require a stupid amount of work. World of Warcraft has never been more unfriendly to casual players.
    I would say there's a large proportion of casual players who are simply happy with anything that makes raiders upset, because they believe that fun in WoW is a zero sum balance and buy into the fiction of WoD having "catered to" raiders on hand and foot rather than simply raiders managing to not get screwed quite as hard as everyone else. Ergo if it makes raiders mad, it must be good for everyone else, right? Right?
  1. Traveler Voltin's Avatar
    Is this the typical blizzard "We know there is a problem but refuse to fix it" crap?
  1. RuneDK's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Zanjin View Post
    Is this the typical blizzard "We know there is a problem but refuse to fix it" crap?
    pretty much, the AP grind itself honestly isn't terrible. Yes the difference in throughput ended up being massive which should be fixed...The legendary game still to me is the biggest problem of this expansion.
  1. Aeula's Avatar
    They should have just made traits easier to acquire. This seems like they're changing the system in a way that will have absolutely no effect. Raiders will still grind maw, doesn't matter if the AP is less. Once they've exhausted raiding and all the one time AP sources they'll do maw runs to get even further ahead.
  1. JIMM-'s Avatar
    i love how they are STILL ignoring the biggest problem with legion , legendaries.

    seriously just end the AP grind already, at least for those with 54 for their specs to free them up from their spec (torture chamber) n allow them to invest into the remaining 2 specs they might want to try out.

    bring back valor upgrades if there is a need for players to feel slight power upgrade.

    blizz is impressive at delivering no results n be completely ineffective , in the end this announcement and their future plan fixed exactly nothing and the problem will continue to persist.

    I absolutely love how they improved their communication n presence but if they refuse to fix problems they acknowledged (looking at you, legiondaries), in the end its all fucking pointless.
  1. jinreeko's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Hope this change works out. The moment 100% raid attendance no longer became enough I started to lose interest in WoW. To the point I almost want to quit. I fucking hate AP.
    Yeah, there have definitely never been other obstacles raiders have been obligated for other than showing up for raid. Goddamn Team 3!!!
  1. Requimortem's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Supercool View Post
    I would say there's a large proportion of casual players who are simply happy with anything that makes raiders upset, because they believe that fun in WoW is a zero sum balance and buy into the fiction of WoD having "catered to" raiders on hand and foot rather than simply raiders managing to not get screwed quite as hard as everyone else. Ergo if it makes raiders mad, it must be good for everyone else, right? Right?
    I sincerely doubt that's the case since Warlords of Draenor was fairly casual friendly. Virtually everything could be done through your garrison and I don't remember anything other than Archimonde being close to "challenging"--the same can't be said for Legion.

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