Top Decks of the Week for March 5

Patch 7.2 - Hunter Spell Animations
Hunters are getting some new spell animations in Patch 7.2.



Patch 7.2 - Fishing Bobbers
Patch 7.2 adds new fishing bobber toys! If you missed the Patch 7.1 release recap, new fishing bobbers were also added there.



Level Type Name
1Other Carved Wooden Helm
1Other Enchanted Bobber
1Other Face of the Forest
1Other Floating Totem
1Other Replica Gondola
1Other Demon Noggin


Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Classes
Not sure who to ask but: Confirm? Feathermane pet group BM-spec only, or just BM maxed weapon to unlock?
just requires the weapon have all traits unlocked (only 1 lvl in concordance), non-exotic, BoA tome (Muffinus)

Art
Will the store helmets such as Crown of Eternal Winter be updated at some point? Since 6.1 the helmets don't fit properly
hmm, what race/gender are you seeing the issue on? (WarcraftDevs)

Ghostcrawler Tweets
Ghostcrawler still occasionally talks about WoW. Remember that he no longer works for or speaks for Blizzard.
Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
What were some of the most important things you learned from WoW that help you become a better designer on LoL?
I tried to just come up with a few off the top of my head:

1) I got better at constructing my written communication to try to get players to understand that we really do understand their point of view and care. It’s really easy in this position to come across as too academic or out of touch.

2) It’s easy as a designer to get in the habit of pushing for elegance at the cost of other things. Sometimes a design just isn’t going to be really elegant if it needs to meet certain goals or solve certain problems. I liken this to a programmer who ends up authoring code that they personally find ugly, but that solves the exact problem they need to solve.

3) Likewise, it’s easy to get in the habit of making a change because it’s the right change for the game without keeping in mind the impact it’s going to have on players. For example, if you’ve had one rule that you’ve been using for years, and eventually come up with a better rule, that doesn’t mean you should immediately implement that rule. Maybe it would be hard for players to adapt to the new rule. Maybe the new rule is better design in a strictly objective sense, but it isn’t as fun as the older design.

In WoW, as a player I always enjoyed dungeons and raids the most out of any content in the game. What I really enjoyed was the problem-solving aspect. “We don’t have a mage for Polymorph, so how can we make that 5 pull?” That sort of thing.

As a player, I didn’t enjoy the late Wrath dungeons where we just AE’d everything down and the tank was running ahead into the next room. Why should my healer have single-target heals and group heals if I only ever used the group heal? Why should I have crowd control abilities if I never used them? What interesting decisions was I making if I approached 2 pulls, 5 pulls and the boss with the same tool set.

So I advocated (and largely got) Cataclysm dungeons that required using the full tool set. You had to strategize and not just run through the dungeon.

4) As a player and a designer, I am pretty tolerant of RNG as a mechanic. I have come to appreciate that many players are less tolerant of it than I expect, so I can’t always trust my own judgment there without some level of introspection and using other developers as sounding boards. It’s kind of like knowing you have bad eyesight so asking someone else what that word is that you can’t make out.

5) You have to pick your battles. There are probably 60 things that you want to improve in your game, but you can’t get to them all and still do a good job on those improvements. It’s better to target a mix of low-hanging fruit (meaning easy-to-fix things that players will still feel) and a few big ticket items (meaning hard-to-fix things that players will definitely feel). Hard-to-implement and limited impact is the kiss of death for a feature, as it should be.

6) Try and avoid even in the hint of favoritism. I still get blamed for buffing Frost mages (which is a class I never played) and nerfing Ret paladins (which was a forum joke that somehow became accepted as reality). I just don’t answer questions about which champions I play the most in LoL.

7) As a lead and a manager, I got a lot better at resolving when I need to stand back and let someone try out a crazy idea. The chance of failure may be high, but they’ll learn something from the experience, assuming there isn’t a very high cost for players. (For example, trying something out before a change goes live with plenty of time to revert can still be “expensive” in terms of wasted developer time but may not impact players much except for the wasted dev time.) On the other hand, there are some times you need to jump in and catch what could be a horrible mistake. I follow the general rule of not catching someone who is about to skin their knee, but definitely catching them if they’re about to break their neck. (Source)



Heroes of the Storm - Probius
Blizzard announced a new hero coming to Heroes of the Storm, Probius!



MMO-Champion Forums Moderator Recruitment
Good news everyone! We're recruiting moderators for the forums again! Please be sure to read the entire post before applying!



Dark Legacy Comics #574 - The View
DLC #574 has been released!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 7.2 - Hunter Spell Animations, New Fishing Bobbers, Tweets, Probius, DLC #574 started by chaud View original post
Comments 48 Comments
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
    As a player, I didn’t enjoy the late Wrath dungeons where we just AE’d everything down and the tank was running ahead into the next room. Why should my healer have single-target heals and group heals if I only ever used the group heal? Why should I have crowd control abilities if I never used them? What interesting decisions was I making if I approached 2 pulls, 5 pulls and the boss with the same tool set.

    So I advocated (and largely got) Cataclysm dungeons that required using the full tool set. You had to strategize and not just run through the dungeon.

    Yeah, and it turned out so well. /s


    And I think his thinking then/now is mixed up. The ICC dungeons were still no cakewalk in LFD even if the average person in the group had an item level of 251 (in the 232 version). It was the 3.0 heroics where you'd pull an entire room and mow them down with AoE. And why not, since people were rocking ICC 25 gear in ilvl 200 heroics. If there were anything to be blamed for this, it was the ballooning stat values in WotLK (which Blizzard explicitly admitted its failure to control). Towards the end of the expansion, for example, 100% armor penetration wasn't unheard of (albeit not easily reached).

    /rant
  1. MasterHamster's Avatar
    Making dungeons into pure AoE fests is one of the biggest mistakes WoW has done. Dungeons are the other bread-and-butter when it comes to endgame in PvE, and it's sad to see that other than high level Mythic+, it's still just mindless. And leveling, just as with dungeons, you don't have to think. Put damage abilities on actionbar and gogogogogogogoggogogogogogogogogogo and hopefully dinging every 11 minutes will keep you entertained.

    Sadly it can't easily be reversed, and people would just bitch and moan about dungeons taking longer if Blizzard made radical changes to mob/boss health and damage in order to avoid it in further expansions... when a lot of the issue with why everyone wants them over with quickly is because they are so mindnumbingly easy you fall asleep. But whenever you try to argue that you miss doing things like sapping/trapping, you just get rebuttals of "lul well i just wanna finish the dungeon cc doesn't require any skill lul"
    Well at least it activates parts of the brain. When mobs actually can pose a threat, things get interesting. When key mobs use very dangerous abilities your toolkits become relevant.

    But alas, it's more important to make sure that every group is 100% viable. Heaven forbid a group realizes no one has Polymorph. How did we ever survive classic and BC.

    It's a result of snowballing design over years. If you want a challenge anywhere in WoW you can only find it in organized raids or high keystones. Everything else is made to be guaranteed success for the new kind of MMO player that rather whine than improve.
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Making dungeons into pure AoE fests is one of the biggest mistakes WoW has done. Dungeons are the other bread-and-butter when it comes to endgame in PvE, and it's sad to see that other than high level Mythic+, it's still just mindless. And leveling, just as with dungeons, you don't have to think. Put damage abilities on actionbar and gogogogogogogoggogogogogogogogogogo and hopefully dinging every 11 minutes will keep you entertained.

    Sadly it can't easily be reversed, and people would just bitch and moan about dungeons taking longer if Blizzard made radical changes to mob/boss health and damage in order to avoid it in further expansions... when a lot of the issue with why everyone wants them over with quickly is because they are so mindnumbingly easy you fall asleep. But whenever you try to argue that you miss doing things like sapping/trapping, you just get rebuttals of "lul well i just wanna finish the dungeon cc doesn't require any skill lul"
    Well at least it activates parts of the brain. When mobs actually can pose a threat, things get interesting. When key mobs use very dangerous abilities your toolkits become relevant.

    But alas, it's more important to make sure that every group is 100% viable. Heaven forbid a group realizes no one has Polymorph. How did we ever survive classic and BC.

    It's a result of snowballing design over years. If you want a challenge anywhere in WoW you can only find it in organized raids or high keystones. Everything else is made to be guaranteed success for the new kind of MMO player that rather whine than improve.
    Yes unfortunately it is a pandora's box scenario I suppose at the time it was seen that have a group of complete strangers would be asking too much in terms of CCing.. Unfortunately in catering to that it has made the normal/heroic dungeon a blur of action then finished.. What will be interesting is 7.2 and the upping of the item level requirement for heroic dungeons but will see..
  1. Socialhealer's Avatar
    CC is dead, even in mythic +20 you're not going to CC anything because thats a dps loss to kill 1 mob instead of aoe a pack and you're against a timer.

    CC is just for making the game really fucking annoying in pvp now, ah yes thank you demon hunter for stunning me for a total 8 seconds and interrupting when i tried to cast, that 10 seconds of my keyboard doing sweet FUCK ALL felt good.

    i mean i guess CC is used in mythic+ but its more aoe stuns aoe slows not the original hex this sap that sheep that trap that, hunter you kite those 2 mobs when we've killed these FD and they'll come running back tank will pick them up or we can sheep 1 kill 1 etc. only way to bring that back is trash literally 4 shotting tanks so you can't even handle 4 melee swings but no tank is going to enjoy that anymore.
  1. lightspark's Avatar
    GC mentioned Cata dungeons in another post:

    In WoW, as a player I always enjoyed dungeons and raids the most out of any content in the game. What I really enjoyed was the problem-solving aspect. “We don’t have a mage for Polymorph, so how can we make that 5 pull?” That sort of thing.

    As a player, I didn’t enjoy the late Wrath dungeons where we just AE’d everything down and the tank was running ahead into the next room. Why should my healer have single-target heals and group heals if I only ever used the group heal? Why should I have crowd control abilities if I never used them? What interesting decisions was I making if I approached 2 pulls, 5 pulls and the boss with the same tool set.

    So I advocated (and largely got) Cataclysm dungeons that required using the full tool set. You had to strategize and not just run through the dungeon.

    A lot of players enjoyed this change. However, some did not, and their response surprised me. For these players, they didn’t want dungeons that were stressful. For them, running through a dungeon and blowing everything up with very low risk was a nice way to unwind and chill with friends after what may have been a stressful day of real life. If I had been a better designer, I should have anticipated this response.

    I don’t think the right answer would have been to nerf all of the content. I think the right answer was to make sure the “interesting decision / strategy” crowd and the “chill / blow shit up” crowd both had content suitable for them.
  1. blitz156's Avatar
    And now, as a result of 'basic that shit' or 'chill/blow shit up' mentality.
    We have neutered classes, and previously baseline abilities now gated behind Honour talents or removed completely.
    #feelsbadman
  1. thane's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by blitz156 View Post
    And now, as a result of 'basic that shit' or 'chill/blow shit up' mentality.
    We have neutered classes, and previously baseline abilities now gated behind Honour talents or removed completely.
    #feelsbadman
    aren't honor talents only working in pvp? ^^
  1. Jonuts's Avatar
    I still get blamed for buffing Frost mages (which is a class I never played) and nerfing Ret paladins (which was a forum joke that somehow became accepted as reality).
    Because you were the name everyone knew, and Cata didn't hit Ret Paladins with the retard stick, they hit Ret Paladin's with the entire retard tree. Repeatedly. God, early Cata Ret Paladin was as shit and unfun as BC Ret Paladin, and moving into later Cata, it stayed just as unfun but at least the numbers weren't still a bad joke.

    Yeah, and it turned out so well. /s
    I find it hilarious that something so much easier than BC heroics caused so many tears. Sadly, Wrath trained the player base to expect every dungeon run to be a complete and effortless success. So honestly, Cata dungeons turned out quite well for me

    It was the 3.0 heroics where you'd pull an entire room and mow them down with AoE. And why not, since people were rocking ICC 25 gear in ilvl 200 heroics.
    Dude, we AoE'd entire rooms in heroics before we even started Naxx. Wrath dungeons were a complete joke, except for Occulus since you had to be not-retarded, and that was an extremely high bar for most the player base.
  1. Shambulanced's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lightspark View Post
    GC mentioned Cata dungeons in another post:
    Yeah. Well, now they do. High M+ runs.

    They just haven't tuned the difficulty/affixes/timers correctly. Timers should be more lenient, but foes more punishing at higher levels, so that CC is necessary.
  1. blitz156's Avatar
    A neat analogy; for those familiar with hack and slash/action combat games. And how much you need to think and strategise.

    We went from Dark Souls, to Dynasty Warriors.

    Generally, both are fun, but one is a chill-grindy pass time and the other is one constantly challenging you and you strive to conquer.
  1. lightspark's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    Yeah. Well, now they do. High M+ runs.

    They just haven't tuned the difficulty/affixes/timers correctly. Timers should be more lenient, but foes more punishing at higher levels, so that CC is necessary.
    I like M+, but I think Blizz should add an affix that would punish people for CCing, so it'd turn things into "gogogo on steroids"... Some people will like it, others will hate it

    Problem w/ current M+ system is that people prefer to use lower level keys, just because they can roflstomp everything in there, many people don't want to do M+ of an appropriate level, they just want easy and smooth runs. Guys who should be doing M+25, are running M+20 and lower, CC is irrelevant in this case....

    M+ system should reward people for pushing as hard/far as they can.
  1. LemonBabby's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alayea View Post
    Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
    As a player, I didn’t enjoy the late Wrath dungeons where we just AE’d everything down and the tank was running ahead into the next room. Why should my healer have single-target heals and group heals if I only ever used the group heal? Why should I have crowd control abilities if I never used them? What interesting decisions was I making if I approached 2 pulls, 5 pulls and the boss with the same tool set.

    So I advocated (and largely got) Cataclysm dungeons that required using the full tool set. You had to strategize and not just run through the dungeon.

    Yeah, and it turned out so well. /s


    And I think his thinking then/now is mixed up. The ICC dungeons were still no cakewalk in LFD even if the average person in the group had an item level of 251 (in the 232 version). It was the 3.0 heroics where you'd pull an entire room and mow them down with AoE. And why not, since people were rocking ICC 25 gear in ilvl 200 heroics. If there were anything to be blamed for this, it was the ballooning stat values in WotLK (which Blizzard explicitly admitted its failure to control). Towards the end of the expansion, for example, 100% armor penetration wasn't unheard of (albeit not easily reached).

    /rant
    While I tepidly agree that Wrath dungeon difficulty were diminished due to the inflating stat issue (Though I'd argue they didn't take much thought even at launch.) I'm tempted to ask what you thought was wrong with the Cataclysm heroics. In my experience, they were incredibly fun to do and massively rewarding to beat. I was always struck and dumbfounded at the community response to them in the past.
  1. BellicoseAxe's Avatar
    The Probius trailer delivered a critical strike right into my feels. As a dedicated Protoss player, I must have trained hundreds of thousands of these little guys back in the days of Brood War, and well into Wings of Liberty.

    During those times, I often had to stay home throughout the weekend to take care of an ill relative, and I had to watch from afar as everyone else would happily head out into the city. But, I would like to think that I did not miss out on anything - I was merely living in a different world. An awesome world of aliens, advanced technology, telepathy... and a world where heroes fought and perished because, apparently, they forgot to change the battery of their psi blades before heading out to battle the Zerg at the province of Antioch.
  1. Penpal's Avatar
    Ew Hunter spell animations.

    And yeah, OF COURSE the casuals are going to want to blow through those dungeons and relax after their day. That's what they do; they come in droves to some of the best video games ever released, then encrust themselves within and ruin everything.

    Fun fact: Vanilla primarily targeted an audience of players in their twenties, who already had jobs and were well on their way to saving up for a mortgage at the time. Vanilla was a HUGE success. So why the sudden shift toward accommodating those players who only have 1-2 hours to play per day, despite the general truism that WoW's audience has only been getting younger? Did the vocal minority drown out reality, or is there something we don't know?
  1. WowIsDead64's Avatar
    Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
    As a player, I didn’t enjoy the late Wrath dungeons where we just AE’d everything down and the tank was running ahead into the next room. Why should my healer have single-target heals and group heals if I only ever used the group heal? Why should I have crowd control abilities if I never used them? What interesting decisions was I making if I approached 2 pulls, 5 pulls and the boss with the same tool set.

    So I advocated (and largely got) Cataclysm dungeons that required using the full tool set. You had to strategize and not just run through the dungeon.

    Wrong. Sorry, but when one mistake = wipe, then there is no room for actually playing the game and learning game mechanics. There is no learning curve - it's just brick wall. Yeah, there are hardcore games, like Battletoads, where one mistake = death and therefore whole game is one big trial'n'error-fest. But overall - it's BAD GAME DESIGN, because hardcore tryhards - are minority. For example ICC heroics were hard, but at the same time mistakes didn't cause instant wipes - players were able to continue playing the game and learning fight, till healer wasn't going OOM. They were able to ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME - not perform endless corpse-run-fest.
  1. Rósa's Avatar
    I actually prefer the old hunter animations, the new ones just look messy
  1. Maorin's Avatar
    Wish they focus on story and new world quests instead of class spells animation, cos 7.2 animations sucks balls. It looks like driving on reverse gear on a highway, dk's spells - worse, hunters spells - worse. Please Blizzard, pretty please, leave animations alone and do something important - new world quests, strike animation (TBC swords had nice striking animations, why new ones looks like choping the wood?).
  1. lightspark's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Maorin View Post
    Wish they focus on story and new world quests instead of class spells animation, cos 7.2 animations sucks balls. It looks like driving on reverse gear on a highway, dk's spells - worse, hunters spells - worse. Please Blizzard, pretty please, leave animations alone and do something important - new world quests, strike animation (TBC swords had nice striking animations, why new ones looks like choping the wood?).
    You do understand that there are multiple quite independent teams that work on different aspects of the game, right? o_O
  1. huehuehue's Avatar
    underwhelmed by the hunter shots because of how how bad the shooting animations still are...

    concussive shot is really cool though, kill command I need to see in-game
  1. TheDeeGee's Avatar
    Man, Undead Hunter Animations really look poo...

    That being said, what does Kill Command look like for the player? Still that silly animation breaking finger pointing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    CC is dead, even in mythic +20 you're not going to CC anything because thats a dps loss to kill 1 mob instead of aoe a pack and you're against a timer.

    CC is just for making the game really fucking annoying in pvp now, ah yes thank you demon hunter for stunning me for a total 8 seconds and interrupting when i tried to cast, that 10 seconds of my keyboard doing sweet FUCK ALL felt good.

    i mean i guess CC is used in mythic+ but its more aoe stuns aoe slows not the original hex this sap that sheep that trap that, hunter you kite those 2 mobs when we've killed these FD and they'll come running back tank will pick them up or we can sheep 1 kill 1 etc. only way to bring that back is trash literally 4 shotting tanks so you can't even handle 4 melee swings but no tank is going to enjoy that anymore.
    Last time i used CC was in TBC Heroics ^^

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