Armory Stats - Challenge Artifact Appearances, Poll, Tweets, DLC #584

Originally Posted by Planeshaper

It's interesting that your stats show approximately 50k players completing the challenge, while we have Blizzard's own infographic that states that 135k characters completed it. Is the character : player ratio really that high for that first weekend, or is the MMO-Champion Armory scraping bot missing that many players?

You're going to have to eventually stop drinking the Kool-Aid and realize Blizzard does nothing but lie to its customers. It's their standard operating procedure, Trump-style. Anything anyone else reports -- even using their own databases and their own tools -- is "fake news." Only Blizzard and Blizzard alone knows the truth of all things relating to the game. They tell us so, and you will fucking believe them. They have no reason to make anything up, especially in defense of their shitty implementation and mechanics. And why shouldn't you trust them even with basic database information? They've proven time and time again how flawless their programmers are. Epitomes of perfection they are, completely above reproach.

All hail Blizzard and fuck everyone and anyone who dares try to prove them wrong. "Fake news!"

Originally Posted by Shigenari

An alternative view: I'm quite enjoying Legion, and I've enjoyed previous expansions too.

None of that has anything to do with anything being discussed.

"I'm having fun, ergo, Blizzard isn't lying about anything!"

Brilliant fucking logic, kiddo.

The MMORPG genre is dying. May as well try to enjoy it while it lasts.

No it's not. Companies just need to stop trying to mimic Blizzard. Blizzard doesn't even understand why WoW became popular, yet all these other companies keep trying to duplicate them despite them getting worse and worse with every expansion. (Case in point is how they misuse the word "expansion." Blizzard has never created a single expansion for their game. The word "expansion" implies that you're enlarging the game, not shrinking it. Each of their so-called expansions instead shrinks the game by making more and more of itself irrelevant. As of Legion, more than 90% of the game is totally pointless; just five little repetitive zones only a fraction of the size of some of their older ones. Pathetic.)

Do you have absolute numbers for the graph - e.g. 12 of 200 rogues ...

Originally Posted by Feederino Senpai

What are you on about? The whole mage tower challenge is balanced around ToS gear, just wait and you will be able to complete it easy as pie, you just lack the skill to do it while it is hard content.

You know i am right dont you ?
Thats why you lash out at the end .
Maybe i completed it yet , you just dont know that do ya ?
I just stated that catering towards a small % of your base isnt alway a good idea .
Your narrow mindedness made it about my skill .Rofl !!

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Originally Posted by Zyrosis

God forbid something in this game be challenging on a personal level for once. And it won't even remain challenging forever because it doesn't scale with gear.

Again its not about the skill i am talking about .Its about a game that is seeing its sub numbers in free fall .
And in all stubbornness keeps catering towards a tiny selection of its player base .
Is that smart ? It remains to be seen but in my book it can only cost them subs they cant afford losing .
Do things like this at the start of the xp pack so people have all kins of things to do .
Now its just entering content almost none can enjoy . That's dumb .

Now show how many people unlocked all challenge appearances for their class.

Originally Posted by Shigenari

Wow, thanks for enlightening us all there, buddy. I thought this was a definitive measure of the difficulty of the challenges but clearly I've been labouring under a delusion. You - you've seen between the lines, taken the red pill and broken free from the matrix!

Seriously what a pointless post. Nobody even thinks this is particularly accurate but the chances are that a good enough proportion of people who've done it will have the appearance equipped either for cosmetic reasons, or just to show off, that we can make a reasonable estimate as to the percentage of players who've done it thus far. Still, I guess cheers for pointing out the blindingly obvious there?

Again it's not a good measurement. Transmog is mainly used for cosmetic reasons and if your class has a subpar challenge one compared to other classes you're simply not gonna use it for transmog. Period. Speaking of pointless, I guess you enjoy the refreshing discussion about who's artifact challenge is easier than others.

I beat it as a ilvl 901 fire mage ^.^

Rogue legendary shoulders make it a walk in the park for Outlaw
I couldn't do it until i had them though. Frustrating it's tied to a specific Legendary

Originally Posted by Shigenari

Lots of assumptions, no substance. I'm not interested in whose challenge is easier for the same reason that you're wrong on this - it's subjective.

Let's go over the areas where you're reaching:

- 'Appearance X doesn't look good' is very much subjective. Just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean that others won't.

- 'People won't ever use a transmog that doesn't look good.' Again, you're generalising from your own experience. Somebody else might value displaying the challenge appearance to show that they've done it over using an appearance that they feel looks better.

The simple fact is that for myriad reasons, people will use their challenge appearances. Maybe not all people, but the fact that every spec has representation proves this to be the case.

You've managed to confuse yourself, but I can help. Nobody said that it was a 'good measurement'. it provides an indication, and to that end the method is entirely fit for purpose. By all means, if you have data other than your own personal experience to suggest that spec X or spec Y may be underrepresented due to an overwhelming perception that the appearance is so ugly as to preclude a significant number of players from using it, then go ahead - share it.

Otherwise, we can see that the data is largely in line with what we would reasonably expect to see. In each of the classes, the completion rate per spec correlates with the proportion of players who are actively using that spec. No surprises there. Tank challenges are known to have tuning issues, and tank representation is lower than any other role, as we would expect. If the aesthetics of a particular appearance were so poor as to dramatically reduce the representation of that particular spec, we would see that effect in the data. We do not, and we can reliably conclude that it is not a significant enough factor to bring into question the veracity of the method as a indication READ: NOT MEASUREMENT of the representation of specs who have completed the challenge relative to one another.

Tl;dr: You're just straight up wrong. What you think is not at all reflected in the data.

Subjectiveness has nothing to do with it. If the challenge looked like a piece of turd you still think people would use it equal to other challenge looks just because they have their own taste? In a piece of turd i mean literally as piece of turd if you didn't get it. Some things looks better than others and are therefore more popular. But I guess in your world all transmogs are equally used if you factor out availability.

Doesn't matter what I think. If a look is very unpopular it will be used as transmog less and will greatly affect the charts. It's a transmog look after all. And no you can't say how much it affects the data in numbers, naturally. you could compare how many has the achievement to how many are using the actual look, but then again there is no way to bind the logged out spec/artifact look to the actual achievement. It's just enough to know it's a factor dismiss "the indication" you are speaking of and say it has to be taken with a huge scoop of salt.

Speaking of tank challenge. Guardian has much more representation than the other tanks, 2-4 times more. Interesting, why is that? Its the same challenge, and I guess looks has nothing to do with it at all? Guardian is just soo much easier and more powerful than other tanks at high ilvls, right?

TL;DR nice try

Originally Posted by Shigenari

You're terrible at looking at statistics, but you want to be right so badly that you're willing to ignore all of the facts.

Before I get to that, I'm going to explain the word 'indication' to you like an idiot, because it's clearly the only way to get it through your skull.

Indication: Not exact. Gives you an idea of. Doesn't necessarily point to the truth of a thing. For example, your complete failure to understand simple concepts gives me an indication that you're not very bright. That might not be accurate, but the signs point that way. Similarly, unless there's a spec where the numbers are wildly different from the others, we can probably surmise that there are no outside factors which are significant enough to suggest that these numbers don't point us in the general area of the reality of things.

That brings me neatly onto Guardian Druids. You're right, they are over-represented (albeit at about 2% of the total population vs about 0.6 for the other tank specs, a staggering difference of less than 2%) and that does suggest that something could be different in their case. Spoilers: it's still not the skin. Instead of just guessing like you did, I did some research, and it turns out that on release, Guardian druids could cheese the encounter, which neatly explains the disparity.

An indication, by its very nature, is to be taken with a pinch of salt. The available evidence, however, would tend to suggest that your assertion that some skins are so ugly that significant numbers of players will not use it, relative to other specs, is either incorrect, or does not apply in enough cases to make a significant enough effect on the data to render it unreliable as a ball-park indicator of numbers.

So, I've explained Guardian Druids; tell us, wise one, which are these specs whose challenge appearances are stopping huge swathes of players from using them, and what is your evidence?

You just proved my point. Things like cheesing hugely affects the poll. Therefore the poll is even less an indication of pure difficulty. If you want to know which skins are more popular than others i'm sure you can find that information in a poll somewhere. You still haven't answered why popularity among skins wouldn't affect what skins people are using and therefore also affect the poll in the same matter though. Even if it happends to be a small factor it's still there and have to be taken into account together with all the other things. Including difficulty of course.

My whole point with my post was that people don't seem to be able to critically evaluate what is presented infront of them. I'm glad you finally did though and therefore you deserve a medal. Most people in this thread are still struggeling with that, therefore i'm done with this thread.

Originally Posted by paflodder

You know i am right dont you ?
Thats why you lash out at the end .
Maybe i completed it yet , you just dont know that do ya ?
I just stated that catering towards a small % of your base isnt alway a good idea .
Your narrow mindedness made it about my skill .Rofl !!

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Again its not about the skill i am talking about .Its about a game that is seeing its sub numbers in free fall .
And in all stubbornness keeps catering towards a tiny selection of its player base .
Is that smart ? It remains to be seen but in my book it can only cost them subs they cant afford losing .
Do things like this at the start of the xp pack so people have all kins of things to do .
Now its just entering content almost none can enjoy . That's dumb .

In the end, I am the one that is right. The Mage Tower Challenge is balanced around us having ToS level gear. That will be what, 50 ilvls more than we currently have? Making it a walk in the park for A LOT more players.

And I doubt you got it, to be honest. But feel free to prove me wrong, if it really matters to you.

.rofl !!


Also, Legion is hardly catering towards the small percentage of playes that are playing for the challenge. It is more about playing a lot and farming, something everyone and their grand-aunt can do if they want to. No skill needed at all.
So I find it fine to have one thing in this game, that really tests our skill. And I wish it would scale with ilvl, making it hard for the rest of the expansion, so we got one item that is extremely hard to obtain that shows how good you are at this game. But nooo, that would be a shame! Everyone needs to be able to obtain it.

Originally Posted by The Jabberwock

None of that has anything to do with anything being discussed.

"I'm having fun, ergo, Blizzard isn't lying about anything!"

Brilliant fucking logic, kiddo.


No it's not. Companies just need to stop trying to mimic Blizzard. Blizzard doesn't even understand why WoW became popular, yet all these other companies keep trying to duplicate them despite them getting worse and worse with every expansion. (Case in point is how they misuse the word "expansion." Blizzard has never created a single expansion for their game. The word "expansion" implies that you're enlarging the game, not shrinking it. Each of their so-called expansions instead shrinks the game by making more and more of itself irrelevant. As of Legion, more than 90% of the game is totally pointless; just five little repetitive zones only a fraction of the size of some of their older ones. Pathetic.)

Blizzards idea of expansion differs from other game developers how? Name one expansion for any game that doesn't make the older content less appealing simply because it is new? If you hate WoW you're only making yourself look stupid to continue to play it. If there are so many other games out there that are better then go play those. Lets use a little, maybe a fraction of common sense here. The starting zones are larger in comparison because they were intended to get us from level 1 - 60, why would new zones need to be as large to get us from 90-100, 100-110? That would leave a very large portion of the content unplayed if there were 60 levels worth of content put into an expansion meant to get us only 10 levels.

Originally Posted by Zigrifid

Its good to see blizz actually caters towards those who try a bit harder at this game , than people who brainless mashing buttons , i havent completed mine but i wont whine if i cant for now .

Yeah because we all know all those millions rolling in every month are from the people who "try a bit harder"...But you go ahead and believe what you will. Your money will still be distributed to me with every share I own.