2.6.0 Hotfixes, Legendary Gem Level Rollback, Double XP Event this Weekend!

The Lich King Job Interviews with Ben Brode

Patch 7.2.5 Hotfixes - July 11
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Classes

Dungeons and Raids
  • The Tomb of Sargeras
    • Fallen Avatar
      • [With realm restarts in each region] On Mythic difficulty, 5 Shadowy Blades now spawn (was 7).

Player versus Player

World Boss - Levantus
Levantus is up this week! He drops item level 860 gear and a Blood Relic. Shaman can also get the The Warmace of Shirvallah hidden artifact appearance for Doomhammer.



7.3 PTR Build Deploy - 7/11/2017
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
We'll be bringing down the PTR realms today in order to deploy a new 7.3 build. No ETA for today's push but I'll do my best to update this thread if things look like they're going to take longer than usual (~4-6 hours).

As always, leaving this thread open for discussion so long as conversations remain civil and adhere to forum guidelines.

Thanks for your patience everyone!

Weekly Event - Burning Crusade Timewalking
Burning Crusade Timewalking is back this week.





Black Temple Added to Burning Crusade Timewalking
During the Burning Crusade Timewalking week, you can head to Black Temple with a 10-30 player group to take on the bosses that drop item level 900 loot. The difficulty has been set a little bit below Normal difficulty and the raid will require a premade group.


Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
What’s New?
Head to Outland to face Illidan and his cohorts once more in our first Timewalking raid: The Black Temple!

The Black Temple raid will be available throughout the Burning Crusade Timewalking event. The difficulty is set to Normal and, like any Normal-level raid, will not be available through Raid Finder. To take on this challenge, you’ll need to get your guild or a group of friends together, or head to Group Finder > Premade Groups. The raid scales for your group size (between 10 — 30 players) and your level and gear will be scaled back to match the raid’s challenges.

Want to relive the time you first defeated Teron Gorefiend? Face (face, face) the Reliquary of Souls once more? Witness the showdown between Maiev and Illidan before the final fight? Now’s your chance. Inside you can earn transmog sets, the pets you need for Raiding With Leashes III, a Music Roll: The Burning Legion, and gear drops of ilvl 900. And for Demon Hunters, there’s the enticing possibility of obtaining the legendary Warglaives of Azzinoth. Are you, this time, prepared?

Jump Into PvP Brawls: Deep Six– July 11-July 18
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
Who has your six in this six vs. six brawl? Deep Six will put you and your group to the test — running July 11-July 18.

Every other week, a new PvP Brawl will be available to players looking for something just a little different. Each Brawl will offer a variety of modes, rules, and scenic changes to the usual Battleground gameplay, and you’ll find them in the Group Finder tool (hotkey “I”) in the Player vs. Player tab. Just like Random Battlegrounds, you’ll receive a reward for achieving victory. Here are just a few of the Brawls you can look forward to:

Deep Six pits teams of six players against each other in three iconic Battlegrounds: Warsong Gulch, Silvershard Mines, and Temple of Kotmogu. Each Battleground offers a little variation on the traditional format, such as flags that are a bit closer in Warsong Gulch, less carts to keep track of in Silvershard Mines, and only two orbs within the Temple of Kotmogu.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Forum Downvote Button Removed
Yes, we’ve recently pushed an update to the WoW forums that removes the ability to downvote posts made by other players.

We originally added this feature as a means for players to assist with forum moderation by upvoting helpful posts and downvoting inappropriate or toxic posts. In practice, however, we found that it was primarily being used for things like downvoting a post simply because they disagreed with it, which was not the intent, and too often led to different opinions getting unfairly buried. Moving to an upvotes-only environment will remove this unintended abuse, while still allowing players to give recognition to posts that have a positive impact on the World of Warcraft community.

As a reminder, you can still report inappropriate or abusive posts to the moderation team by selecting the “Report Post” option located in the dropdown menu on the right of the offending post.

Really? I don't like a post, I hit the button labeled DISLIKE... Remove like as well or you (blizzard as a whole) is just doing this to make it look like there are no issues. Cover-ups never go well.
Covering up what exactly?... Posts that disagree with design, for example, can still be liked by players which can indicate to us its something to look into, etc.

The ability to troll threads with downvotes, or downvoting for the sake of disagreement was the prime reason for removal here, and it nay make some increase in workload on the moderation side, but nothing we can't handle.

Let's take off our tin foil hats here.

I don't think this will work like you think it will ...
A good example of the reason for this fall to specific examples, and there are many, but one we see often that ends up pushing people away from the forums is...

For example, if a Paladin posts in the Paladin class forum about something the 'general' Paladin community doesn't feel is important, they were just downvoted to oblivion, often with no context. We'd much rather people engage in meaningful conversation with each other to convey those kind of things, and, even if they don't, the poster of the thread doesn't feel worthless for posting a thread that ended up with -70 votes for no reason.

There's not really a bad outcome here, but we will keep an eye on the change going forward, and we encourage posters to report posts that are toxic or against our Forums Code of Conduct.

We built a much larger, scaled moderation team since the downvote feature was implemented, and they are typically quick to react to these types of things to remove them entirely, and we will work with our moderation team to adjust to react to this as well.

Downvoting doesn't really serve a purpose with that kind of thread in the bigger picture, as people can still read it.

Clicking the button that said "Dislike" on a post we didn't like was now, according to a blue, trolling?

Covering up quite a bit actually. If there's a lot of disliked comments on a topic, good chance it's not popular (of the forum population) opinion. By only allowing the like button to continue you're pushing any opinions that are not +1 out of the game. If someone can add a +1, someone else should be able to add a -1, or you're promoting a false utopia of upvotes...

Many of the downvoted threads did not warrant a full reply. The dislike button was enough to say "I don't like this".

*puts on tin foil hat*

It wasn't the *original* intention. I wasn't here when it was implemented, and maybe there was a poor word choice on the button, but we're a bit past that now.

And now if there's not a lot likes, then it's still not popular?

I think your concern is how do we know x is popular versus y and z (wheras x may be a disagreement about game design and y may be a thread about Illidan lore). Things will be compared on the bigger picture now instead of thread by thread, which is how we've been doing it for a long, long time to be honest. (Official Forums)
This article was originally published in forum thread: July 11 Hotfixes, Levantus, PTR Build, Burning Crusade Timewalking, Deep Six Brawl started by chaud View original post
Comments 20 Comments
  1. familiar's Avatar
    They need someone to write better reference points for the CMs, because damn that reasoning is cringe-worthy.
  1. Riistov's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by familiar View Post
    They need someone to write better reference points for the CMs, because damn that reasoning is cringe-worthy.
    How is it cringe-worthy? Please elaborate.
  1. familiar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Riistov View Post
    How is it cringe-worthy? Please elaborate.
    All the rhetoric about dislike button not supposed to be used for disliking a post, how is it not?
  1. Shambulanced's Avatar
    Currently, downvotes get weighed on posts against upvotes. So the net can stay neutral if folks are divided on the post.

    As suggested, now they'll only see a post (usually the OP) and how many upvotes it has. Which means a lot of dumb ideas and statements will get a lot more credibility than they would currently. Especially if the devs overlook (and they do, frequently, the forums are nothing if not a sea of good ideas/theorycrafting/etc that goes completely ignored) the post 5 down from OP that is also upvoted far more, saying that OP was an idiot.
  1. Ausr's Avatar
    The tin foil hat and general disrespect that blue is replying to... damn. That's why I generally dislike the WoW community.
  1. americandavey's Avatar
    It doesnt matter if the post has dislikes or likes. Whatever the community ever posts is ignored. To complain that people used they dislike a post or topic because they DISAGREE with it is a lame excuse. I seen plenty topics down voted because it was the generic, "Blizzard sucks! This Sucks, that sucks, etc." What Blizzard wanted the community to police itself than hiring or asking vetted volunteers to monitor the forums. Reason why MMO-C forums are handled better.
  1. Shambulanced's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by americandavey View Post
    It doesnt matter if the post has dislikes or likes. Whatever the community ever posts is ignored. To complain that people used they dislike a post or topic because they DISAGREE with it is a lame excuse. I seen plenty topics down voted because it was the generic, "Blizzard sucks! This Sucks, that sucks, etc." What Blizzard wanted the community to police itself than hiring or asking vetted volunteers to monitor the forums. Reason why MMO-C forums are handled better.
    That's not true at all. In the past they've used posts (or lack thereof) to justify decisions--huge and small--so to remove an easy way to disagree with a stance is pretty shifty at best.

    They should just remove the like button while they're at it.
  1. ElDoorO's Avatar
    It's not really toxicity -- that'll happen anyways. What it does is encourage an echo chamber.
  1. americandavey's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    That's not true at all. In the past they've used posts (or lack thereof) to justify decisions--huge and small--so to remove an easy way to disagree with a stance is pretty shifty at best.

    They should just remove the like button while they're at it.
    I dont disagree with you on any part. My point is, their reason is BS.
  1. Appelgren's Avatar
    Good! About time rshams were brought down a notch from godmode
  1. zrankfappa's Avatar
    lurk in customer support forum, down vote all wanna-be-blizzard-support posts, see down vote removed. seriously, it's like a circle jerk of up voting in that forum ...
  1. arcaneshot's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by americandavey View Post
    It doesnt matter if the post has dislikes or likes. Whatever the community ever posts is ignored. To complain that people used they dislike a post or topic because they DISAGREE with it is a lame excuse. I seen plenty topics down voted because it was the generic, "Blizzard sucks! This Sucks, that sucks, etc." What Blizzard wanted the community to police itself than hiring or asking vetted volunteers to monitor the forums. Reason why MMO-C forums are handled better.
    MMOC polices itself like crap. It also, if you hadn't noticed, doesn't have Downvote buttons, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by zrankfappa View Post
    lurk in customer support forum, down vote all wanna-be-blizzard-support posts, see down vote removed. seriously, it's like a circle jerk of up voting in that forum ...
    Downvotes didn't get removed, you got outvoted.
  1. Baneleaf's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    That's not true at all. In the past they've used posts (or lack thereof) to justify decisions--huge and small--so to remove an easy way to disagree with a stance is pretty shifty at best.

    They should just remove the like button while they're at it.
    Let me explain to you why you are both right and wrong at the same time. My example is this, PlayerA puts together a post on ClassX forums explaining why his class needs a buff. He has a well put together argument with several key points and even a youtube video he has put together with the argument. The thread gets several views and a few good comments. Then PlayerB comes along reading over the forums one fine day and decides to put "GAME SUCKS BLIZZ SUCKS YOU SUCK" all over PlayerA's post, which then encourages more basement dwellers to do the same. At this point the original argument has lost all traction and this has been turned into a troll post so Blizzard ignores it. Now PlayerA has lost his drive to make valid post and decides to stop using the forums. Now BLizz says that they are making some change to ClassX and there was no discussion on the forums so they dont have any feedback about the change so they are just going to make it and people can deal with it. In one post we have two examples of a valid argument being destroyed then blizzard ingoring the existence of feedback because the post was destroyed.

    TLDR Blizz does not monitor their own
  1. decsis's Avatar
    When are we finally gonna see some hard warrior nerfs??
  1. MasterHamster's Avatar
    People see a post that is -x and they press Dislike. Same shit on Reddit.

    Trying to wade into the swamp that is bandwagon-complaints of the month threads like flying or say, removal of AK50, or my latest favorite, when Blizzard made mobs scale a tiny bit with iLvl and a flood of complete morons thought it meant gear wasn't having an impact anymore. And try to argue from a game design PoV and all you get is a barrage from the guys who has spent the last 8 hours refreshing the thread calling anyone not disagreeing with Blizzards reasoning an idiot. So even when there's a change most people aren't really bothered by, the threads are nothing but strongholds of downvoting complainers voicing their opinion by making sure any dissenting opinion is brought to -50.

    In those kinds of threads, posts, regardless of whether they are well-written and constructive or not, are being judged on nothing but the opinion being expressed.
  1. zrankfappa's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneshot View Post
    MMOC polices itself like crap. It also, if you hadn't noticed, doesn't have Downvote buttons, either.



    Downvotes didn't get removed, you got outvoted.
    are you 50 lines of perl code or a real person? 'cause that makes no sense.
  1. Ophenia's Avatar
    Bleh, premade group for Black Temple... Not cool Blizz
  1. paflodder's Avatar
    If these are all the balance changes , i am out .
  1. Shambulanced's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Baneleaf View Post
    Let me explain to you why you are both right and wrong at the same time. My example is this, PlayerA puts together a post on ClassX forums explaining why his class needs a buff. He has a well put together argument with several key points and even a youtube video he has put together with the argument. The thread gets several views and a few good comments. Then PlayerB comes along reading over the forums one fine day and decides to put "GAME SUCKS BLIZZ SUCKS YOU SUCK" all over PlayerA's post, which then encourages more basement dwellers to do the same. At this point the original argument has lost all traction and this has been turned into a troll post so Blizzard ignores it. Now PlayerA has lost his drive to make valid post and decides to stop using the forums. Now BLizz says that they are making some change to ClassX and there was no discussion on the forums so they dont have any feedback about the change so they are just going to make it and people can deal with it. In one post we have two examples of a valid argument being destroyed then blizzard ingoring the existence of feedback because the post was destroyed.

    TLDR Blizz does not monitor their own
    I don't need an explanation, but thanks.

    If they're going to make the forums about DISCUSSION and not VOTING, they should remove the Like button as well.

    If they're going to make the forums about Discussion+voting, there should be a dislike button and a like button.

    It's really that simple.
  1. Reek's Avatar
    ah butthurt about a little forum feature removed, didn't think the community could get anymore whiny but once again I'm surprised.

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