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The Nighthold - Raid Boss Strategy Guide and Loot
by Published on 2012-08-09 07:56 AM

Massive Amounts of 1.0.4 Information on It's Way, Showing Off That Profile, Blue Posts, Win Awesome Prizes with Blizzard

Valor and Justice Quartermasters
The latest beta patch added items to the Valor and Justice Quartermasters found in Niuzao Temple in Townlong Steppes. There appear to be a few items that don't require reputation and one item that costs Valor Points and should cost Justice Points; these are likely just bugs.

Keep in mind that heroic dungeon loot is still ilvl 463, so all of the Justice Points gear is lower quality than what you can find in a heroic dungeon.

Level Type Spec Slot Name Cost Faction Rep
489ClothSpell SpiritHandsGloves of Red Feathers1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489ClothSpell DPSHandsSunspeaker's Flared Gloves1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489LeatherSpell DPSHandsOgo's Elder Gloves1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489LeatherPhysical DPSHandsFingers of the Loneliest Monk1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489MailPhysical DPSHandsSentinel Commander's Gauntlets1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489PlateTankHandsGloves of the Overwhelming Swarm1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489PlateMeleeHandsStreetfighter's Iron Knuckles1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489MailSpell DPSHandsRavenmane's Gloves1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489PlateSpell SpiritHandsGauntlets of Jade Sutras1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489PlateMeleeFeetTankiss Warstompers1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489PlateTankFeetYu'lon Guardian Boots1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489PlateSpell SpiritFeetBramblestaff Boots1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489MailPhysical DPSFeetSteps of the War Serpent1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489MailSpell SpiritFeetSandals of the Elder Sage1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489LeatherPhysical DPSFeetTukka-Tuk's Hairy Boots1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489LeatherSpell DPSFeetBoots of the High Adept1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489ClothSpell SpiritFeetStorm-Sing Sandals1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489ClothSpell DPSFeetVoid Flame Slippers1750 x The August CelestialsRevered
489PlateMeleeWristsBraided Black and White Bracer1250 x The August CelestialsRevered
489PlateTankWristsBattle Shadow Bracers1250 x The August CelestialsRevered
489PlateSpell DPSWristsFallen Sentinel Bracers1250 x The August CelestialsRevered
489MailPhysical DPSWristsTiger-Striped Wristguards1250 x The August CelestialsRevered
489MailSpell DPSWristsBrewmaster Chani's Bracers1250 x The August CelestialsRevered
489LeatherPhysical DPSWristsQuillpaw Family Bracers1250 x The August CelestialsRevered
489LeatherSpell DPSWristsClever Ashyo's Armbands1250 x The August CelestialsRevered
489ClothSpell SpiritWristsBracers of Inlaid Jade1250 x The August CelestialsRevered
489ClothSpell DPSWristsMinh's Beaten Bracers1250 x Shado-PanRevered
489PlateMeleeWaistKlaxxi Lash of the Rescinder1750 x The KlaxxiRevered
489PlateTankWaistKlaxxi Lash of the Consumer1750 x The KlaxxiRevered
489PlateSpell DPSWaistKlaxxi Lash of the Doubter1750 x The KlaxxiRevered
489MailPhysical DPSWaistKlaxxi Lash of the Winnower1750 x The KlaxxiRevered
489MailSpell DPSWaistKlaxxi Lash of the Precursor1750 x The KlaxxiRevered
489LeatherPhysical DPSWaistKlaxxi Lash of the Borrower1750 x The KlaxxiRevered
489LeatherSpell SpiritWaistKlaxxi Lash of the Harbinger1750 x The KlaxxiRevered
489ClothSpell DPSWaistKlaxxi Lash of the Orator1750 x The KlaxxiRevered
489ClothSpell SpiritWaistKlaxxi Lash of the Seeker1750 x The KlaxxiRevered
489MiscellaneousMeleeNeckBloodseeker's Solitaire1250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489MiscellaneousPhysical DPSNeckChoker of the Klaxxi'va1250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489MiscellaneousTankNeckParagon's Pale Pendant1250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489MiscellaneousSpell SpiritNeckLinks of the Lucid1250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489MiscellaneousSpell DPSNeckWire of the Wakener1250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489MiscellaneousMeleeFingerRing of the Golden Stair1250 x Golden LotusRevered
489MiscellaneousPhysical DPSFingerAnji's Keepsake1250 x Golden LotusRevered
489MiscellaneousTankFingerAlani's Inflexible Ring1250 x Golden LotusRevered
489MiscellaneousSpell DPSFingerSimple Harmonius Ring1250 x Golden LotusRevered
489MiscellaneousSpell SpiritFingerLeven's Circle of Hope1250 x Golden LotusRevered
489ClothMeleeBackCloak of the Dark Disciple1250 x Shado-PanRevered
489ClothTankBackYi's Cloak of Courage1250 x Shado-PanRevered
489ClothPhysical DPSBackBlackguard Cape1250 x Shado-PanRevered
489ClothSpell DPSBackCloak of Snow Blossoms1250 x Shado-PanRevered
489ClothSpell SpiritBackSagewhisper's Wrap1250 x Shado-PanRevered
489MiscellaneousTrinketLao-Chin's Liquid Courage1750 x Shado-PanRevered
489MiscellaneousSpell DPSTrinketScroll of Revered Ancestors1750 x Shado-PanRevered
489MiscellaneousSpell DPSTrinketBlossom of Pure Snow1750 x Shado-PanRevered
489MiscellaneousPhysical DPSTrinketHawkmaster's Talon1750 x Shado-PanRevered
489MiscellaneousMeleeTrinketIron Belly Wok1750 x Shado-PanRevered
489ClothSpell SpiritLegsPoisoncrafter's Kilt2250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489ClothSpell DPSLegsLeggings of the Poisoned Soul2250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489LeatherSpell SpiritLegsWind-Reaver Greaves2250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489LeatherPhysical DPSLegsDreadsworn Slayer Legs2250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489MailSpell SpiritLegsSwarmkeeper's Leggings2250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489MailPhysical DPSLegsLocust Swarm Legguards2250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489PlateTankLegsKovok's Riven Legguards2250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489PlateSpell SpiritLegsAmbersmith Legplates2250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489PlateMeleeLegsLegguards of the Unscathed2250 x The KlaxxiRevered
489PlateSpell SpiritHeadSix Pool's Open Helm2250 x Shado-PanRevered
489PlateTankHeadYi's Least Favorite Helmet2250 x Shado-PanRevered
489PlateMeleeHeadVoice Amplyifying Greathelm2250 x Shado-PanRevered
489MailPhysical DPSHeadHawkmaster's Headguard2250 x Shado-PanRevered
489MailSpell SpiritHeadNightwatcher's Helm2250 x Shado-PanRevered
489LeatherPhysical DPSHeadRed Smoke Bandana2250 x Shado-PanRevered
489LeatherSpell SpiritHeadSnowdrift Helm2250 x
489ClothSpell DPSHeadFirecracker Corona2250 x
489ClothSpell SpiritHeadYalia's Cowl2250 x
489ClothSpell SpiritShouldersTenderheart Shoulders1750 x Golden LotusRevered
489ClothSpell DPSShouldersMantle of the Golden Sun1750 x Golden LotusRevered
489LeatherPhysical DPSShouldersImperion Spaulders1750 x Golden LotusRevered
489LeatherSpell DPSShouldersWhitepetal Shouldergarb1750 x Golden LotusRevered
489MailSpell DPSShouldersMindbender Shoulders1750 x Golden LotusRevered
489MailPhysical DPSShouldersWindwalker Spaulders1750 x Golden LotusRevered
489PlateMeleeShouldersStonetoe Spaulders1750 x Golden LotusRevered
489PlateTankShouldersShoulders of Autumnlight1750 x Golden LotusRevered
489PlateSpell DPSShouldersPaleblade Shoulderguards1750 x Golden LotusRevered
489PlateMeleeChestDawnblade's Chestguard2250 x Golden LotusRevered
489PlateTankChestCuirass of the Twin Monoliths2250 x Golden LotusRevered
489PlateSpell SpiritChestBattleguard of Guo-Lai2250 x Golden LotusRevered
489MailSpell DPSChestRobes of the Setting Sun2250 x Golden LotusRevered
489MailPhysical DPSChestBreastplate of the Golden Pagoda2250 x Golden LotusRevered
489LeatherPhysical DPSChestSoftfoot Silentwrap2250 x Golden LotusRevered
489LeatherSpell DPSChestMistfall Robes2250 x Golden LotusRevered
489ClothSpell DPSChestVestments of Thundering Skies2250 x Golden LotusRevered
489ClothSpell SpiritChestRobe of the Five Sisters2250 x Golden LotusRevered
450ClothSpell DPSChestRobe of Eternal Dynasty2250 x Shado-PanHonored
Level Type Spec Slot Name Cost Faction Rep
450MiscellaneousTrinketShado-Pan Dragon Gun1750 x Shado-PanHonored
450MiscellaneousTrinketMogu Rune of Paralysis1750 x Golden LotusHonored
450MiscellaneousPhysical DPSFingerMark of the Dancing Crane1250 x Shado-PanHonored
450MiscellaneousSpell DPSFingerEtched Golden Loop1250 x Shado-PanHonored
450MiscellaneousSpell SpiritFingerSorcerer-King's Seal1250 x Shado-PanHonored
450MiscellaneousTankFingerThunderstone Ring1250 x Shado-PanHonored
450MiscellaneousMeleeFingerSignet of the Slumbering Emperor1250 x Shado-PanHonored
450MiscellaneousPhysical DPSNeckAmulet of Swirling Mists1250 x Golden LotusHonored
450MiscellaneousSpell DPSNeckNecklace of Jade Pearls1250 x Golden LotusHonored
450MiscellaneousSpell SpiritNeckPendant of Endless Inquisition1250 x Golden LotusHonored
450MiscellaneousMeleeNeckTriumphant Conqueror's Chain1250 x Golden LotusHonored
450MiscellaneousTankNeckGorget of Usurped Kings1250 x Golden LotusHonored
450ClothPhysical DPSBackBladesong Cloak1250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450ClothSpell DPSBackCloak of Ancient Curses1250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450ClothSpell SpiritBackPressed Flower Cloak1250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450ClothMeleeBackRibcracker's Cloak1250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450ClothTankBackCloak of the Silent Mountain1250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450ClothSpell SpiritWristsBracers of Eternal Resolve1250 x Golden LotusHonored
450ClothSpell DPSWristsTranquility Bindings1250 x Golden LotusHonored
450LeatherSpell DPSWristsSudden Insight Bracers1250 x The KlaxxiHonored
450LeatherPhysical DPSWristsCruel Mercy Bracers1250 x The KlaxxiHonored
450MailSpell SpiritWristsRunoff Wristguards1250 x The KlaxxiHonored
450MailPhysical DPSWristsEntombed Traitor's Wristguards1250 x The KlaxxiHonored
450PlateSpell DPSWristsBracers of Inner Light1250 x Golden LotusHonored
450PlateMeleeWristsSerrated Forearm Guards1250 x Golden LotusHonored
450ClothSpell SpiritHandsEmperor's Riding Gloves1750 x The KlaxxiHonored
450ClothSpell DPSHandsKrompf's Fine-Tuning Gloves1750 x The KlaxxiHonored
450LeatherSpell SpiritHandsWandering Friar's Gloves1750 x Golden LotusHonored
450LeatherPhysical DPSHandsSurehand Grips1750 x Golden LotusHonored
450MailSpell DPSHandsGloves of Forgotten Wisdom1750 x Shado-PanHonored
450MailPhysical DPSHandsBrushcutter's Gloves1750 x Shado-PanHonored
450PlateSpell SpiritHandsGauntlets of Restraint1750 x Shado-PanHonored
450PlateMeleeHandsWall Breaker Gauntlets1750 x Shado-PanHonored
450ClothSpell SpiritLegsSubversive Leggings2250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450ClothSpell DPSLegsLeggings of Unfinished Conquest2250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450LeatherSpell DPSLegsBrambleguard Leggings2250 x Shado-PanHonored
450LeatherPhysical DPSLegsTough Mushanhide Leggings2250 x Shado-PanHonored
450MailSpell DPSLegsSnowpack Waders2250 x Golden LotusHonored
450MailPhysical DPSLegsLeggings of Twisted Vines2250 x Golden LotusHonored
450PlateSpell SpiritLegsValiant's Shinguards2250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450PlateMeleeLegsLeggings of Ponderous Advance2250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450LeatherSpell SpiritChestVestment of the Ascendant Tribe2250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450LeatherPhysical DPSChestRefurbished Zandalari Vestment2250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450MailSpell SpiritChestMountain Stream Ringmail2250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450MailPhysical DPSChestUndergrowth Stalker Chestpiece2250 x The August CelestialsHonored
450PlateSpell DPSChestInner Serenity Chestplate2250 x The KlaxxiHonored
450PlateMeleeChestChestplate of the Stone Lion2250 x The KlaxxiHonored
450ClothSpell DPSChestRobe of Quiet Meditation2250 x Shado-PanHonored

Scroll of Resurrection: Updated
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
With the upcoming release of Mists of Pandaria, the Scroll of Resurrection will be receiving several updates to its functionality and availability. The following changes and restrictions will be made as of the release of patch 5.0.4.
  • The leveling system has been updated to work with the revised specialization and talent system.
  • Characters will no longer have their talents pre-selected for them, but a specialization is still available to be chosen prior to entering the game.
  • Monks will be ineligible to receive a Scroll of Resurrection invitation.
  • Pandaren who have not chosen a faction will be ineligible to receive a Scroll of Resurrection invitation.
To learn more about the Scroll of Resurrection, visit the support site and read the FAQ.

Beta Class Balance Analysis
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We changed how Vengeance works.

Vengeance is intended to let tanks generate additional damage and threat as content levels rise, despite not gearing for it (or at least not primarily). We're changing the design to let Vengeance play better with active mitigation, but the new design has some other advantages many of you will like.

As most all of you know by now, the idea of active mitigation is that the buttons a tank presses directly contribute to mitigation and survival. In some cases, this is timing-centric, such as Death Strike. In others, it’s both timing-centric and also involves balancing how you spend your resources among multiple abilities, such as Savage Defense vs. Frenzied Regeneration or Shield Block vs. Shield Barrier. In the latter case, it’s important that both abilities are compelling and compete well with each other. We are changing Vengeance to let those abilities be balanced.

I'm going to use Savage Defense (a short duration large dodge buff) and Frenzied Regen (a large instant heal) as examples. Getting the balance between SD and FR right is challenging. We want SD to win on average, but you’re limited on how often you can use it, and it’s not necessarily reliable -- sometimes you really need a heal NOW, and so FR is the right button. SD should win, but FR shouldn’t be too far behind, and they should scale similarly.

SD scales with the incoming damage: if BossA hits you for 60k, and BossB hits you for 120k, then SD is twice as valuable (in absolute terms) on BossB than on BossA. FR scales with your attack power: even a few 5man trash mobs will cap out your Vengeance, so your AP will be the same on BossA as on BossB. FR isn’t any stronger on BossB than BossA.

On top of that, AP and boss damage scales differently as ilevel rises. We tried a solution to that problem where FR scaled exponentially with AP in the last build. That has worked fairly well, but still failed at keeping SD and FR balanced when boss damage was significantly different from the baseline we used as a tuning point. For example, 25-player raid bosses hit twice as hard as 10-player raid bosses, which makes SD twice as valuable.

But wasn’t this post supposed to be about Vengeance? Currently, Vengeance increases your AP by 5% of the damage taken, stacking up to the cap, which happens quickly. We are changing Vengeance to increase AP equal to 5% of the damage you take for 20 sec. This buff will "roll" so that as it gets refreshed the unused part is added to the new buff, similar to how Ignite or Stagger work. The net result will be that Vengeance stacks by the amount of DPS being thrown at you over 20 sec. There is no cap.

Additional nuances:

  • Avoidance will not count against you. Avoiding an attack will extend the current Vengeance stack back to 20 sec (as if you were hit again for the same DPS).
  • Blocks, absorbs, Stagger and Shield of the Righteous will also not count against you. The damage before these effects is used for the Vengeance calculation.
  • To reduce ramp up time, we bump you up to halfway to whatever your average Vengeance level would be based on each individual hit. Essentially, we skip the first 10 sec of ramping.
  • Tank damage in 5-player groups will decrease. We think this is a good chance because it is weird and demoralizing when tanks consistently top damage meters in dungeons.
  • Tank damage in 25-player groups will increase. We think this is a good change because it makes tank DPS as relevant in 25-player raids as it is in 10-player raids.
  • With this change, Brewmaster damage will be extremely overpowered. We will fix it, but you may get a build where they are ludicrously good.

The rest of this post is nitty gritty details for theorycrafters. You do NOT need to read or understand this in order to effectively play a tank.

  • Whenever you get hit, Vengeance is added based on the damage of the hit before block, crit block, absorbs, stagger, and Shield of the Righteous.
  • Whenever you avoid an attack from a mob where MobLevel>=TankLevel-3, your existing Vengeance is extended to 20sec remaining.
  • Based on how hard you’re hit, we estimate how high Vengeance’s equilibrium point will be: DamageTaken / 1.5.
  • If you’re not at least half that high on Vengeance, we bump you up to that amount
  • The new Vengeance value is calculated as: 0.05 * DamageTaken + OldVengeance * OldVengeanceSecondsRemaining / 20
  • Frenzied Regeneration and Shield Barrier’s formulae have changed to:
    Frenzied Regeneration at 60 rage: max(2*(AP-Agi*2), Sta*2.5)
    Shield Barrier at 60 rage: max(2*(AP-Str*2), Sta*2.5)
  • Yes, these do mean that it uses your AP without base AP from Str/Agi (but does still slightly include AP from Agi/Str when you’ve got the 10% AP raid buff or other +%AP buffs).
  • Please feel free to ask any questions you have about the mechanical details of this.

What would you 'expect' a prot warriors vengenace to be sitting around whilst tanking.. Oh let's say Two of the Three stone guards in a 10 player raid. Hypothetical situation, I've been tanking them for 20 seconds. Would you expect it be higher than our current vengeance cap? Or lower? Or approximately the same?
We just tried this out, and get roughly 25K AP from gear, and 40K AP from Vengeance in this situation as a Protection Warrior in 489 gear. That should be roughly similar to what you currently get. As we noted, it will be higher in 25-player raids.

I don't follow. The tank in question should be taking at least 50k damage per second if he's tanking one boss, and 100k per second if he's tanking two of them (Rend Flesh). That's not counting the melee autoattacks, the possible abilities, etc.

I was assuming that (roughly), the new vengeance plateau was something along the lines of the damage per second the tank wasreceiving. We could also say it as MeleeSwing/Swing Timer. I've been working on some values assuming this, but maybe I'm wrong then?

Our test wasn't rigorous because we just dumped the bosses into a test scenario. In the actual encounter they would use Rend Flesh and other abilities. Looking at the actual encounter with all of their abilities, the tank in question has 24660 AP and an additional 68450 AP from Vengeance. You might take a little more damage if you stood in the pools a lot. Fundamentally, the mechanic should be that it approaches an equilibrium of your damage taken per second as AP.

They have already talked about this and their stance is tanks don't get Vengeance from Players. They also said tanks are viable in PVP as flag carriers and defenders as long as their DPS is not the same or higher than a DPSer. Healer DPS will also be lower than Tanks if they chose to DPS as a healer.
This remains our design even with the new Vengeance model.

Just a quick clarification - what about passives like Blood Presence, defensive cooldowns etc? Or is this list exhaustive?
For now, this list is exhaustive. We’re keeping an eye on this; we almost certainly wouldn’t put passive effects on this list, but will consider defensive cooldowns. We opted not to include them for now.

In terms of unlimited target AOE heals like Divine Star, Halo, Sanctuary, Holy Radiance, Healing Rain, Healing Mushrooms, how do you calculate the fall off in stacked situations? Divine Star for example has an average base heal of 3369 and a scaling factor of 32.5% SP.
Is this the figure for upto 6 targets? When there is a 7th target, does the base heal go down, the scaling factor, or a bit of both?
If so by how much? If it goes down by say, 10% on both the base and the scaling factor, will that same reduction occur for each extra person?

In terms of Divine Star in particular. As it runs out and then returns to you, does its target of 6 still apply? Or would it be a base target of 12 (hit same people out and on its return) before it gets diminishing AOE cap returns? Basically, what is the diminishing returns formula for each of the uncapped AOE heals?

AoE heals that hit more than 6 targets have their total healing multiplied by (6/TargetCount). For example, if you heal 6 targets with a Wild Mushroom Bloom, it may do 1000 healing to each (total of 6000). If you heal 8 targets, it would do 750 to each (total of 6000). The net result is that AoE heals heal for the same total amount on more than 6 targets, but it is split between all of the targets. Additionally, pets do not count toward the TargetCount. If you heal 8 targets and 2 pets with the same Bloom, all 8 players and 2 pets would each get 750 (total of 6000 to players, 1500 to pets).

Ret took it to the face this build. Was it 'doing more damage than intended?
No, just you Chaz.

We have made several adjustments based on player feedback, raid testing, and fixing some bugs. Some of the changes were made to keep secondary stats scaling appropriately and some were when specs were doing too much damage. Here's a quick cheat sheet for where we are. Even "tuned" does not mean set in stone and ready for ship.

Priest -- Shadow roughly tuned.
Warlock -- roughly tuned except for Sacrifice.
Mage -- roughly tuned except Arcane and Invocation.
Druid -- Feral and Balance tuned except for Dream of Cenarius.
Paladin -- Ret roughly tuned.
Rogue -- tuned (but we'll look at Assassination numbers posted above).
Shaman -- tuned.
Hunter -- tuned.

We are working on monk, warrior and DK next.

Does this mean mechanics are done and it's all just numbers tuning now?

Death Knight (Forums / Skills)
An update for Blood death knights: We’re going to try returning the Crimson Scourge passive, with a minor tweak. You have a 10% chance on melee hit against a Blood Plague diseased target to make your next Blood Boil or Death and Decay free.

To add to this: Is it possible to let Crimson Scourge build up charges (I was thinking of up to 2) to carry over between packs?
And does CS reset DnD's CD as well? Also, can we assume DnD/BB's cast with Crimson Scourge will not generate RP so it doesn't mess with the current tank balance?

Nope, no charges; we want sitting on the proc to be a damage loss, but an option when you want to make sure you have one up for a soon to be incoming pack of mobs. It currently has a 15 sec duration. It does not reset Death and Decay’s cooldown. If it did, you’d almost always use it on Death and Decay; we want you to use it for a mix of Death and Decays and Blood Boils. And no, the free ones will not generate RP.

Druid (Forums / Skills)
Feral PvP on the other hand, needs some help. Our defense is almost non existent and the SR situation is just awkward at best. Feral PvP HP looks like a roller coaster... falling and rising fast, it's stressful and isn't very fun to be honest.
We gave Survival Instincts back to Feral recently. Not sure if you have that change.

So, with regards to moonkin dots and our new nuke-crit refresh mechanic, I'm assuming that's not an "indefinite refresh" model, so there's no recalculation. What I'm wondering is, when we get 2s, are we getting 2s of hasted dot, or are we merely getting one more tick, no matter our haste? Again, assuming it's 2s of whatever haste you had, so it could potentially be 2 extra ticks at high enough haste ratings.

Related to that, the moonkin 4pc adds 4s to our dots. For the sake of calculating break points, do we add 4s/2 ticks to the dot duration, or is that calculated in a funny way? In other words, will we have to calculate new breakpoints for 4pc versus no 4pc, or will the 4pc dots be calculated something like 14s + 4s (7 ticks + 2 ticks) for the sake of breakpoints?

The Moonkin DoT refresh mechanic adds 1 tick, regardless of haste. The 4T14 bonus adds 4sec to the base duration of the DoTs, so all haste calculations are done as if it started at 18sec.

You were supposed to nerf Dream of Cenarius not the base spells. Nerfing mastery and the base spell damage coefficents., for Balance, just favors the continuing problem.
The nerfs you see in this build help bring Moonkin down to the right level without Dream of Cenarius. Dream of Cenarius is still on the chopping block, and will be appropriately adjusted soon.

This recent change also makes Soul of the Forest a no brainer over Incarnation for the same reason. The reduction from 18 second moonfire and sunfire, to 14 second DoTs makes it so you can not transition in one set of dots to a new eclipse. Because of this you will have to choose Soul of the Forest to keep dps in pace.
Can you show some evidence of this? We’re seeing it within a couple % (and actually losing to Incarnation) of the rest of the row.

P.S. Why are treants even there?
Because they do good damage? And they want to be your friend?

Hunter (Forums / Skills)
Against a level 85 dummy, I do significantly less dps (4-5k) with a level 87 BM hunter than I do on live with a level 85 hunter - using an inferior weapon, no less.
When you log into the big rule changing patch, our intent is not for your DPS to change much. Hunters may be in a special situation because of the expertise change -- I'll have to dig into that more.

However, when you jump to level 87, it wouldn't surprise me for your DPS to drop because all of your combat ratings change. This is just one of the unfortunate aspects of the way our gear progression works. The alternative, at least until we come up with something better, is your crit chance just increases each expansion until it hits 100%. It also sounds like you're using quest greens, which might be higher ilevel, but probably can't compete with all the gems, enchants and set bonuses of Dragon Soul gear (assuming you have some). Once you reach 90 and start getting blue and purple gear, your DPS will grow higher than it is currently on live. A lot.

Posting specific numbers (even rounded off ones, like "I do 47K") would help.

First, this is a great thread. Thank you for both the moderation and responses. I hope you have similar threads even after MoP gets released. A few hunter comments and issues:

- Dire beast based damage scaling was reduced from 0.5715 to 0.3572. That wasn't documented, so I wanted to confirm that it was intentional.

Dire Beast’s attack power scaling coefficient was indeed reduced from 3.2 to 2.0.

- The pet focus regen appears to be 5* the hunter's focus regen multiplier. Is that correct?
Pet Focus regen is indeed 5 base, and inherits 100% of your haste, so its focus regen should be multiplied by the same amount as yours. Or, an easier way to look at it is that since your base regen is 4, and its is 5, and both are increased by the same amount, its focus regen will be equal to yours * 1.25.

- The new explosive shot damage mechanics are great.
Glad the new Explosive Shot mechanics are working well.

- Kill Command doesn't refund focus on a miss/dodge. Because of the same massive dodge issue, it seems like it should (just like other focus-costing shots). What's your plan here?
Kill Command should be refunding on avoids in the next build.

- Focus fire didn't used to cost a GCD. With a GCD, it interferes with a smooth rotation in BM and is simming as a very poor value CD (~1%). Is the GCD intentional?
We just buffed Focus Fire further, to 8% per stack, and nerfed Frenzy to 8% per stack.

- The CD for Devilsaur's monstrous bite interferes with casting Bite. The next result is that exotic beasts have noticeably lower stampede damage because they miss out on casting one Bite during the period they are up. Since the special abilities have their own CDs (e.g., monstrous bite has an 8 second CD), can the casting GCD be removed? The GCD interaction seems to add no useful constraint and just reduces the dps value of devilsaurs (and possibly a few other pets) below non-exotic pets.
- Similarly, there remains a (latency) delay between when a pet could do something and when it does. Thus even though the CD for Bite is 3 seconds, pets only Bite every 3.3 seconds.
- The above two issues combine to strongly impact the value of the devilsaur buff (and possibly other similar buffs). The pets often do not reapply the buffs until they notice that the buff has dropped. This leaves a gap in the uptime. Because of GCD interaction, that gap may be expanded by casting other abilities. In dummy tests, it was not uncommon to get a 5 second gap between castings of the 8 second Monstrous Bite buff. If you were counting on reducing Warlord Zon’ozz's heal, this would not suffice (a similar issue appeared with hyene's though their buff has been changed in MoP). The net result is that my poor DinoMight both fails to bring a real buff and has lower damage than otherm more pedestrian pets. This makes Dino unhappy

We just did a pass on Hunter pet abilities, and took any that are expected to be kept up the whole time off the GCD. Also, if any had durations equal to their cooldown, we either reduced the cooldown or increased the duration, so that there’s some slush room for overlapping.

- Powershot was simming fairly low compared to just not using it at all in most specs. This seems partly because it suppresses autoattack so the opportunity cost is high. Are there any plans to change Powershot?
Powershot (and that whole row) has been significantly buffed in the next build you’ll get.

Currently Simc implements all the single-target hunter mechanics as we understand them. Thanks again for the communication on this thread!
You’re welcome. We’re finding it very useful as well.

Is there a design purpose in why aimed shot, powershot and barrage all suppress autoshot? It seems strange to me that the 2.0 cast time shots do not and the 2.9 and 3.0 ones do. For MM in particular, it seems to conflict with the design of the mastery, since suppressing autoshot will reduce wild quiver procs and long cast time shots mean less chances for wild quiver procs as well. It also potentially creates a micromanagement benefit that I thought was intended to be removed when autoshot was changed to work while moving.
Aimed Shot should feel different, like you’re distinctly pausing to precisely aim a perfect shot. That’s mostly a kit thing. In terms of gameplay, it reinforces that Arcane Shot should usually be your primary focus dump (but Aimed being a better dump during periods of high haste is cool and something that we do intend to continue supporting). Powershot was in a similar boat, but we changed our mind on that, in order to help balance the talent row; in the new build going up now it no longer interrupts Auto Shot. Barrage still seems weird to allow Autos during, but it does give you more Wild Quiver procs on average so handles the balance concern.

Also on the question of design intent, I'm noticing that in my sims pet damage for BM is extremely high relative to hunter damage (in the realm of almost 60% with stampede included). Historically I thought the goal was always to keep pet damage at minimum lower than the hunter's. Is the current situation just because you guys are still tweaking things or do you think it's acceptable for such a high percentage of the damage to come from a pet?
We’re not seeing pet damage that high in our results; it’s topping out at around 45%, which we’re OK with (for BM only, of course).

Mage (Forums / Skills)
Got a quick question about the 3% crit chance reduction against +3 level targets: is it calculated before or after crit multipliers?

Fire: would it be, e.g., 25% * 1.5 - 3% = 34.5%, or (25% - 3%) * 1.5 = 33%?

Frost w/Shatter: 25% * 2 + 50% - 3% = 97%, or (25% - 3%) * 2 + 50% = 94%?

My assumption is that it's subtracted after the other calculations, but as this could have a meaningful impact on simulation numbers, it'd be good to know for sure.

A Frost mage with 23.60% character sheet crit will crit 20.60% of the time normally, or 91.20% of the time with Shatter. ((23.6-3)*2+50 = 91.2)
A Fire mage with 36.71% character sheet crit will crit 50.57% of the time with Fireball (and other Critical Mass buffed spells). ((36.71-3)*1.5 = 50.565)

Monk (Forums / Skills)
Is there a reason why Chi Wave has a cooldown?
We rebuilt how Chi Wave functions under the hood, so it should feel much more responsive. Give it a try in the next build. Unfortunately, it still needs to have a cooldown for technical reasons. We wanted to take the cooldown off, but there were some issues with having multiple Chi Waves bouncing around at the same time from the same Monk, so we put the cooldown back on.

We also just retuned the level 30 row, Chi Wave bounces 7 times, and Chi Burst does 25% less damage/healing.

What is the motivation behind taking away Spirit -> Hit conversion for all healing spex except Mistweaver? It's a perk I really appreciated in Cata. You have bandaided the issue in PvE by kitchen-sinking the abilities healers are expected to use, but the spell-specific bonuses don't help PvP or more specialized PvE situations, where heals need to use their entire control toolkit, not just spam Smite.
We want healers to do reasonable DPS, but we’re always wary of healers being able to do damage comparable to their damage specs. With much of the Mists overhaul and the de-emphasis on passives, we were concerned that say a Resto shaman would be able to Lightning Bolt as well as an Elemental shaman. Limiting the amount of free hit floating around (which is a stat healers don’t stack) helps to keep their DPS in check. It’s possible now that so many abilities are affected that it would be fine to let all spells benefit from hit, but that’s the concern.

Curious about this statement. Given that Brewmasters' damage taken (and therefore Vengeance under the new model as I understand it) is highly correlated to their Purifying Brew use, what is it that their damage is going to be tuned around? As is, I can tweak my damage taken by around +/- 30% by just varying my PB usage. How frequently will you assume PB is used when tuning our (Brewmasters') damage?
Purifying Brew usage will not affect Vengeance. Damage taken from the Stagger DoT does not cause Vengeance. When taking damage directly, you get Vengeance for the pre-Stagger damage, so you already got "credit" for taking that damage again. You don't get to double-dip when you take the damage as the Stagger DoT.

While on the topic of PB, can it be documented somewhere what the colors (green, yellow, red) of the Stagger stack mean, exactly?
The color is purely for display purposes, to give you a quick indication of how strong the Stagger DoT currently is. The logic for the colors is based on the damage per tick as a % of your max health. Red means >6%, Yellow means >3%, Green means >0%.

Is it your intent that WW monks use Fists of Fury as a part of their single target dps rotation? I'm sure you have read the issues that the majority of monks have with a channeled melee ability in raids. Perhaps a glyph that allowed you to channel it while moving but would also remove the stun would make the move itself more viable?
It is intended. We understand it can be a little challenging to use it, but we’re okay with that. The damage was recently too low to justify using it rotationaly, but that should be better now.

Paladin (Forums / Skills)
An update for paladins: we're going to buff Word of Glory and slightly nerf Light of Dawn. We will likely nerf Bastion of Glory enough to offset this change, but need additional testing first. For now, we are not changing Ret's WoG bonus so it will be buffed for them as well.

What is the vision and role of Hammer of Wrath? Like many of my fellow Paladins in this thread we are confused as to the direction this spell is going. The spell has previously been an execute and like all the other executes in the game, it was a fun hard hitting ability when we were fortunate to get the chance to use it. My concern is with the relationship with Sanctified Wrath and it being an execute ability. Is SW causing the nerfs to this ability?
I think what you’re really asking is “Can Hammer of Wrath hit harder?” It can, but that means nerfing all of the other abilities to compensate for its damage. It’s still a good button. I’m not sure all execute abilities need to be comparable, and in fact if they are, it’s one of those things that makes classes feel really similar. We wanted to restore the warrior Execute to its original design of basically being able to kill a solo questing target.

Prot Paladin DPS (that phrase alone caused me to lol) seems to have taken a hit as a result of Ret tuning. Judgement and Censure feel overly weak now. SotR has always felt weak (but is a bit more spammable and has a defensive buff).
That is possible. We specifically were tuning the DPS specs, so it’s possible we threw Protection’s damage inadvertently low. If so, we can easily adjust it upwards.

Eternal Flame is now really hurting compared to Selfless Healer.
We’re not convinced of this yet. Eternal Flame was broken so of course it felt like a great button (and before that everyone was using Selfless Healer). The tick itself isn’t huge but it ends up being a lot of healing over the course of the spell duration. This is just how hots work – they are the antithesis of burst but still contribute to a lot of healing (and overhealing) without taking up a lot of healer GCDs.

In the same vein as Elemental Blast for Resto Shamans, can Holy Prism be added to the Holy Insight passive for Holy Paladins? Testing it on a Raiding Target Dummy, it misses just enough to be an annoyance, if I wanted to use it as an AoE heal for the tanks and melee.
That makes sense.

I checked a few dps calculators, and it seems that while Seal of Truth is indeed scaling with AP, Seal of Justice isn't. It's only scaling with Base Weapon Damage. Is that intended as well?
I just checked, and both of them just scale with normalized weapon damage. Censure itself scales with AP.

Two the changes to Eternal Flame was this fixing the bug? If so that is a pretty significant bug. A lot of recent logs showed EF being ahead of every other spell or at the very top of usage. As some suggested this isn't exactly a gamebreaking nerf to the class but it raises a good question I think is that are people going to go back to Selfless Healer?
In essence, Eternal Flame's hot was benefiting from Holy Power twice. We want it to be a competitive talent but not mandatory.

The more relevant point I wanted to make though as we continue to test is that having the entire community shift from one perceived best talent to another isn't super helpful. If we fail at our balancing and one talent is the best on live then I certainly won't blame anyone for choosing that talent. (I'll cry into my coffee mug of gin, but I won't blame you.) However, during the beta testing stage, it's much more helpful if players try out every talent rather than just choosing the one that conventional wisdom or the forums or the hardcore raiders say is the best. They may very well be right, but that just limits the exposure, testing and feedback of the other talents. This isn't the time to be the best. This is the time to give us feedback while there is still time for us to react.

Priest (Forums / Skills)
An update for priests: we're going to reduce the cost of all heals by 10%, reduce the mana gain from Inner Focus, but buff Discipline to 50% Meditation. We're also making Power Infusion priest only, for fear that priests will be asked to choose that talent to benefit someone else.

From the simulations I've done, t14h shadow was sitting very middle of the pack post DP nerf. It was really quite acceptable at 109k dps in T14h (Even with some other classes up around the 120k mark)
It might be helpful to mention what are the classes that you believe are trumping Shadow. I’m not saying this is the case here, but what often happens is we nerf A, B and C, and all the B players only really read or understand the B nerfs, so in their mind, their nerfed B is still competing with a pre-nerf A and C.

Shaman (Forums / Skills)
An update for shaman: we're going to make Healing Rain cheaper and heal for a lot more. We are going to make Chain Heal heal for slightly more.

Can resto please get Elemental Blast added to Spiritual Insight? To me it's weak to have a lvl 90 talent that resto cant even use for fear of missing .

Is the Healing Rain mana cost decrease a second one in addition to the one that went live today?
No, we just made one change so it sounds like you already have a build with that change.

Healing Stream Totem is a button you have to use every 30 seconds, and Searing Totem is a button you have to use every 60 seconds. No need to target anybody or do anything other than hit these buttons when the cooldowns are up. Are these abilities OK?
Yes. Those abilities are on the GCD so you are choosing to them instead of something else, and in any event, you can't build a macro these days that just pushes all of your rotational buttons for you.

Abilities off the GCD are more dangerous. An ability like Recklessness still isn't typically macro'd because lining it up with other cooldowns (including Bloodlust) is usually more beneficial. However abilities that give you resources, off the GCD, without a risk of wasting that resource are the ones to take a hard look at.

Warlock (Forums / Skills)
Unstable Affliction was buffed by 25% in the current build. Either the tooltip or the data-mining suggest otherwise.

Malefic Grasp is currently not causing extra 50% ticks from the Seed of Corruption DoT effect, is this intended? The Tooltip for MG reads "all your other affliction periodic damage effects", and the dot component of SOC should surely fall under that description.
That seems totally fair, we’ll try to get that in, but it may be a few builds.

i've noticed the Demonic Gateway transports you slowly if going from the purple one to the green one. is it indended?
This just in! Huge buff to warlocks! Purple Gateway now transports you just as fast as Green Gateway, a 50% buff.

Warrior (Forums / Skills)
Is enrages while enraged not proc'ing more charges of Raging Blows intended?
It is for the moment at least, but we're not crazy about it. Specifically, using Berserker Rage while Enrage is up doesn't give you more rage or Raging Blow charges. The concern was that Fury would just macro Berserker Rage into every attack. With the previous design, this wasn't worth doing because once you were enraged being more enraged wasn't valuable. Now it is. It's more intuitive (and probably fun) if Berserker Rage always grants a charge, but we want Berserker Rage to be a button warriors actually use, not macro. Another option would be to put Berseker Rage on the GCD, but we thought this would feel even worse. If we become convinced warriors won't macro Berserker Rage, we'll happily revert the change.

To elaborate, we don't have a problem with macro'ing say Nature's Swiftness with Healing Touch. You are still making a decision about when you are going to use the spell. But if you're using a macro to tell the game that you want to use Berserker Rage on cooldown no matter what, then the ability isn't adding anything to the game and should just be a passive.

Currently is seems like, unless cleaving is part of a bosses mechanics Arms falls well blow Fury. My current theory is simply because Arms doesn't benefit from Haste buffs at all. Hero gives 30% Haste for 40 seconds, Swiftblade's Cunning gives 10% Attack Speed buff.
We're working on another major balance pass, based on having made several bug fixes. At the moment, we're showing Fury ahead of Arms at 85 but the two specs pretty close at 90 with a variety of gear level. AE needs a bit more work because there are so many different AE scenarios (quick cleaves vs. sustained mass AE burn phases and everything in between).

What Zelix was getting at is that Haste is a low-value stat for DPS warriors, particularly Arms. During Cataclysm, it was worth about 1/2 as much as Mastery and 1/3 as much as Crit; we avoided gear with it. My own beta observation is that for Arms it's up to about 1/2 of Crit's value and 3/5s of Mastery's. Subject to someone telling me my numbers are wrong, that appears to be better, though not great (and it could also be because the removal of Impale and old Deep Wounds has devalued Crit, resulting in a relative increase only). Our concern is scaling, really.
We hurt haste's value with the Enrage change, but we thought it was still a good change for gameplay reasons. As I posted above, we haven't made a pass on warriors lately. If we have to, we could always make Deep Wounds tick with haste, even though we typically don't do so for melee for reasons I outlined much earlier.
Also, Haste was horrible even before the Enrage changed. 7101 Haste Rating gave you an extra 14 swings over a 5 minute fight. Then it was based PURELY on crit if those 14 extra swings even mattered in the end.

Also, does the +10% Attack Speed count as "melee/range haste", or just attack speed?
I asked this because I didn't include it in my calculations above, because I'm confused as to how it works. (Lowers the Cast Time of Steady/Cobra Shot on my Hunter.)

“Horrible” isn’t very descriptive. Haste was much closer to crit before the Enrage change than it is on live and is now. As I mentioned, the Enrage change, which was a good change overall, did hurt haste. We agree it’s a problem, but we’re not sure yet how to fix it. We don’t think lowering GCD or cooldowns would work well for warriors. I can elaborate if it’s not obvious why.

The melee “haste” buff such as Icy Talons is just attack speed, not regen.

What actions will be taken to ensure that deadly clam doesn't fall victim to being bound to heroic strike and forgotten?
We believe it is sub-optimal to do so. Deadly Calm (for Arms and Fury) doesn't make Heroic Strike free, so it's possible you won't have enough rage to benefit from all of the attacks. Arms needs to watch Heroic Strike use for Taste for Blood and Fury sometimes needs to use it rotationally when Raging Blow isn't available. If it's convenient for you to macro it, that's fine with us, so long as the best possible DPS is to decide when you use Deadly Calm. (Having a separate HS key and a HS + DC key is totally different.)

Inner Focus, which someone might have mentioned, is more problematic. It is probably always worth using on cooldown for the mana benefits alone.

There may be other "no brainer to macro" abilities, but those are things we want to fix, not templates that it's okay for Berserker Rage (which started this discussion) to be a no brainer.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
30 Hours to Earn a Piece of Valor Gear?
To answer the original question, no those numbers are not accurate. Without getting into all of the details, we have features like a bonus for the first activity of the day to encourage players to experiment with lots of different types of content rather than just solving which is the most efficient and running that until you're very sick of it (we call this the Mechanar Syndrome). We can try to put together a blog or some other way to convey all of the different ways to earn valor and how it all fits together.

Now, we are asking you to participate some in daily quests, scenarios, raid finder, challenge modes and the other new systems we're introducing in Mists of Pandaria. One of the pieces of feedback we heard loud and clear from Cataclysm is "I'm done raiding for the week and want to play WoW, but there is nothing to do." I know it's easy to dismiss everything that we're trying to give you to do as grinding, and I don't think we'll be able to change your mind on that until you get in the game and actually try out the content. We're pretty excited about it. Also note that players who raid the most will likely need to earn the least valor, because they'll have so many opportunities to get actual item drops.

For those of you only interested in raiding full stop, we were able to deliver a bunch of bosses for 5.0. So I think it's cynical to say that we're just adding grinding mechanics to stretch out the lifespan of the content. It's more that we're trying to give you something to do in between raids that feels like you're still making progress on your character.

Q: Why didn't you need to do that in prior expansions?
A: There was no LFR allowing casual players to full clear the raids in less than two hours.

Nah, we had farming for Whipper Root Tubers. Very compelling gameplay.

Is there a reason you're FORCING us to do daily quests for rep instead of allowing us to CHOOSE to grind the rep in dungeons?
Essentially because dungeons already reward loot from bosses and valor. Letting them also provide faction seems extraneous. Why not just increase the boss drops or give you more valor to let you buy stuff?

Here's how we got there though:
  • BC had an extensive attunement system. (I'm not passing judgment on that system because I kind of liked it myself.)
  • As part of that system, you were required to acquire a lot of reputation with different factions, which you achieved primarily by running dungeons over and over. This meant you might have a dude that needed to run Shadow Labs 3 more times while someone else needed Mechanar or Botanica.
  • To solve that problem, we let players wear tabards so they could earn whatever faction they wanted while running dungeons.
  • This made things much more convenient for players, arguably too convenient. The factions themselves sort of lost their identity. They were just different bars to fill. Also, sometimes by the time you hit Exalted or Revered with a given faction, you already had better gear from running the dungeon so much.
  • In Mists, we want to provide players alternative content to running dungeons. The dungeons are still there, but even with 6 new and 3 redone dungeons, you're ready for something else after a while.
  • Part of that something else are the Elder faction quests, such as Klaxxi and Shado-Pan. We put as much work into these quest chains as we did the level-up zone quests. The stories evolve and new branches unlock. You earn faction by doing these quests and can also earn valor to layer on top of what you're earning from dungeons, or even in lieu of dungeons if you just don't have enough time or aren't interested in a dungeon at that moment.
  • As I said above, I know not everyone loves questing. (For that matter not everyone loves mount collection or pet battles or achievements or raiding). Strictly speaking, you don't have to do the factions to progress your characters, but we figure a lot of players will.

We could have a long discussion, probably beyond the scope of this thread, about how much time you should have to commit to feel like you're keeping up with end game progression vs. how much extra time you should be able to commit if you're interested in doing so. In Cataclysm, we think we steered too far into the zone of telling players to stop playing because there was nothing else to do.

No developer wants to hear "I want to play your game, but there's nothing to do." For Mists, we are going out of our way to give players lots to do. We don't want it to be overwhelming, but we do want it to be engaging. We want you to have the option of sitting down to an evening of World of Warcraft rather than running your daily dungeon in 30 minutes and then logging out. We understand we have many players (certainly the majority in fact) who can't or aren't interested in making huge commitments to the game every week and we hope we have structured things so that you don't fall very far behind. The trick is to let players who want to play make some progress without leaving everyone else in the dust. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Content Difficulty and Consumption Speed
The only people that don't seem to understand this are either the ones entering this thread and bashing people like me for being "elitist" or a "special snowflake" without me trying to be one, and the other two that deliberately refuses to understand us / avoids the good questions / behave badly - are an MVP and the representative known as Draztal.
I'm not refusing to understand you. But I have the feeling you (and some others) won't feel I understand you until I say "Yes, you're right". I've provided ample answers on many of the topics we've touched on this thread, and I've questioned those things that looked odd to me. And in return I've gotten angry answers from some individuals that just refused to accept that perhaps there's more to consider than just their point of view.

There's no way you can say I'm refusing to understand this topic when I've posted in this thread over 60 times already.

You've simply painted the view of this spurious group of "other players" (which nobody has seen any real evidence of) and completely sidelined those of opposing view.
Quite a few have actually posted on this thread. And there's no "opposing view". This isn't a fight. My replies have just tried to show the other side of the coin to the arguments being made, because there's one, and it can't be ignored.

We can argue about it until the cows come home, but that person is saying "tier 13 was wholly underwhelming and felt a lot less epic". So far, your response has been thus: "You don't speak for everyone, lots of people who play differently to you think it's great".
Actually no, I've never written anything like that. I've said there're other players that are currently being challenged by that content, even if you aren't.

If a person is saying that T13 has been underwhelming for them (and I'm sure there're folks out there for which it has been), then I can only say that it's unfortunate it wasn't fun for him/her.

For some of us - me, at least - the problem is serious enough to be gamebreaking; something must change or my interest in the game will not be sufficient enough to warrant continuing to pay for my subscription. I'd imagine that this sort of feedback - from a customer on the verge of quitting - would be extremely valuable to Blizzard.
Feedback is always valuable, but not everything that is said is useful. As unfortunate as it may sound that's the way it is. There's not much of use from saying "TBC was great, bring it back" (not saying it's your case). It's far more useful to express what you don't like, what you don't agree on with the current game philosophy and point those things out.

Some people have said they'd like attunements to be brought back, and we've already mentioned that the developers don't have any plans at the moment to bring them back. Same case, some people have asked if we can guarantee if Challenge mode dungeons won't be nerfed, and we've also provided a reply about that.

As such i apreciate your presence here Draztal, i am just very sad that your perspective on the game and obviously blizzard's perspective judging on the direction the game is taking, is so far away from what it used to be and what i like.
Challenging content is there. Now you'll also have the Cutting Edge feats of strength so there's a reason to go and do content without the debuff. Furthermore, you've got bosses with heroic-only phases like Sha of Fear. Feng the Accursed also has a phase that only appears on Heroic. Then you have the Protectors of the Endless, which provide even better loot than usual if you kill Protector Kaolan last (that loot is tagged Heroic Elite for the heroic mode version, and Elite for the normal mode).

And you'll also have Challenge Dungeons. So, yeah, I understand that looking to what we're leaving behind (Dragon Soul with the Power of the Aspects debuff), it may seem like nothing challenging is lying ahead, but the fact is, there's plenty of content that will test your skills.

So where is our territory? The one in which lazy players don't have a right to step in? And no, I wont accept the "casuals" thing. Its not about casuals, its about players that don't want to put time and effort in, for whatever reason. I raided 9 hours per week the entire expansion and I'm done with your content for 4 months now. If that's "hardcore", I guess I don't know the meaning of hardcore.
If they are raiding and killing bosses they are putting effort and time. Ii for you that time and effort spend is not enough is a different discussion.

So, if you want players to accept that you understand and accept your answers, start by admitting there is a problem with the game as it is now.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having players progressing today. And the developers have their data to see that everytime they've increased the debuff the participation rate in Dragon Soul has increased exponentially in comparison to previous weeks.

And if you manage to admit there something is wrong somewhere, there might be a chance for discussion - because right now, you are talking by yourself behind a nice thick wall (well, not alone, you got Jito there to keep you company). Maybe the problem isn't as big as we make it, but I think it still exists, which is more than you are willing to admit.
Nothing is perfect. And I believe that the fact that there're things like the Cutting Edge achievements being added, Challenge mode dungeons and more bosses with Heroic only phases (like those I've mentioned), etc, should be proof that the devs have certainly not stopped developing content for the crowd that wants a challenge.

It isn't only that. Back then you had a mountain to climb, with several smaller tops you couldn't skip. No matter when you started, the mountain would be waiting.
But if you started late, some levels of that mountain were completely barren. And actually some guilds were just feeding guilds in the upper side, as some players felt they were encouraged to jump from guild to guild climbing through the raiding progress rather than sticking with their own guild.

Regarding LFR and what some of you guys have suggested about delaying it for more than one week, here're the developers thoughts about it:

Players want to see the content. And is true that some (many?/all?) would stop running it if there was no loot. So something like not giving loot at all is not an option the devs are considering.

The reality is that LFR holds little competitive advantadge to hardcore raiders, especially in Mists of Pandaria. The most hardcore guilds will clear Mogu'shan Vaults on normal difficulty on the first week, and on the second week (when LFR will be open) they'll be able to run LFR and also Heroic. So, after a couple weeks, LFR would offer little benefit to a hardcore guild.

Regarding the delay of LFR furthen than a week, the developers feel it's unnecesarily punishing those players that aren't part of organized guilds. Even more if we keep in mind that one of the reasons to delay it more is to keep hardcore raiders from feeling obligated to run it.

One of the reasons why currently raiders (both normal and heroic) feel "forced" to do LFR is because it's possible to increase your and your guildmates chances of winning items by gaming the loot system. Since Mists of Pandaria introduces personal loot, using the system in this way won't be possible.

Something I missed yesterday on my post. Regarding putting LFR on the same lockout with normal or Heroic modes:

It's something the developers may consider, but there're no immediate plans for it. There's plenty of logisitical issues they'd need to sort out first to make it function in a logical way.

i dont want LFR on the same lockout. i want it removed. if players dont put in enough time and effort, they dont deserve to be rewarded with content.
What benefit would that bring to the game?

How do you explain to John Doe that he shouldn't even think about raiding in World of Warcraft because you feel that anyone that can't devote *this* much time to raiding just should not be allowed in? Furthermore, why would John Doe, the person that can't devote *this* much time to raid but would like to, have any interest in venturing into Azeroth?

Do you feel it's just alright to tell someone "sorry bud, you're interested on this game, but you don't have the time, go play something more fitting to you, like Solitaire"?

If you don't see anything wrong with that, then it's going to be difficult to have any kind of discussion in that topic. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Lack of 25 man Guilds
10 and 25 share a lockout. 10 and 25 share loot. Legendaries can be obtained on 10 man
As you can see from all the answers you got on this thread, there are many reasons for having so many 10 man raids going on right now.
I would also add that we're in "low season" at the moment, DS has been running for quite a while and a lot of players are waiting for MoP, so there's less people willing to raid right now.

Also, on top of all those facts you still have to take into account the simple personal preferences of players, while for some people, 25 man dungeons might be appealing, for others, 10 man's are just much more enjoyable, and there are many reasons for that to happen, it’s easier to get a better group cohesion, it can be much calmer and less messier, they’re the usual choice for groups of friends, it’s easier to get 10 really good players and coordinate them than 25, provides a visually smoother experience (it’s less cpu and gpu intensive, this is particularly relevant to players without high-end PCs), etc…
I suspect that we'll see an increase in the amount of 25 man guilds when MoP launches, but 10 man will probably still remain as the most popular choice, there are just too many things in its favour.

We just like to give players more options to choose from, that's why 25 and 10 share the same lockout, encounter difficulty (similar but not the same) and rewards, it's fine if we see more 10 man's than 25's, it’s all about giving players freedom of choice. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Reduction of Gold From Older Raids in Mists of Pandaria
We know that a lot of players enjoy soloing old content and we certainly don't mean to discourage players from continuing to do so but the reality is that there were certain raids or parts of raids that were incredibly lucrative for solo players.

We could do a series of hotfixes to take care of those farming areas one by one, but that wouldn’t make much sense since we’re about to launch a new expansion and we have an opportunity to deal with the situation now in a much more effective way. So to stop the impact that soloing raids has over the economy, we think it makes much more sense to change the formula for the way the gold drops across the board. Soloing will continue to be quite profitable if you take into consideration AoE looting and vendoring drops (the rates have not changed on item drops).

I do realize this isn’t probably what you all wanted to hear and that it’s hard when a nerf is made to something you enjoy doing, but the fact remains this really did impact the economy in ways we feel we shouldn’t have allowed in the first place. We realize there are certainly a few other things that might also impact the economy that might still need to be taken care of, but that’s not a rational reason why we shouldn’t be fixing this one if we can.

We really don’t want to kill the fun out of running old raids, why would we undermine an experience (even if unintended) that players enjoy? It certainly doesn’t make sense, so keeping that in mind I really want to make sure you are confident about your feedback being heard and about it getting to the developers.

Also, remember we’re still in Beta, things can still change, numbers can be tuned, etc… so please do continue to voice your opinion and keep giving us feedback in a constructive and collaborative manner, we both share the same goal of improving our game and developers are always open to better ideas.

Is there a chance we are going to completely revert this? Probably not, can it be adjusted? Certainly, make a good case, with some backed up arguments and numbers and hey, devs are reasonable people, they will hear what you have to say.

I can definitely understand how frustrating this must be to some of you and I really appreciate the way you continue to keep this thread constructive and bringing up very insightful observations.
Like I said, we still have plenty of time to do any kind of tuning or changes to the game before it goes live and your feedback might just be that extra factor that can turn the tides on certain decisions. I just would like to emphasize how persuasive careful and thought-out feedback can actually be, so please, if you have anything constructive and new to add to this topic, please let your voice be heard.

While I share some of your concerns on the amount of gold dropping from bosses possibly being a little bit on the low side, and I must say that I haven’t personally tested this myself on the beta, I was wondering if any of you with beta access has already tried to see just how much gold one can make by actually vendoring all the loot that you can get inside a raid, since AOE looting probably made it time efficient enough to kill all the trash packs instead of skipping them and going straight to bosses.

Also, I would like to shed some light on the constant comparison that is being made between playing the auction house and looting gold from bosses. I think this can be one of those fallacious arguments that can easily slip through as a valid argument and needs to be addressed.

There is a huge difference between these two, which is, playing the auction house doesn’t “create gold", looting does.
Just like in real life economics, adding gold to the system creates what is called inflation, prices rise because the amount of goods remains unaltered, while at the same time the amount of gold rises. So if players have more gold, they will be willing to spend more on the same quantity of items, and since prices are totally dependent on the laws of supply and demand, prices will consequently rise.
We can compare looting to doing dailies though, that argument works, since both generate gold, but we can't compare it with the auction house, that’s only a transaction of goods and not a generation of goods (actually this isn’t totally true, since there is an AH cut, so it can actually be considered a soft gold sink). (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

What Purpose Does LFR Have?
I think this is an extremely sensitive topic and I would like to approach it very carefully.

First I think we have to realize that WoW is not just any game, it unleashes very passionate feelings on its players. It’s been a part of everyone’s life for so long that it has acquired a status that sometimes can rival many things in real life, it’s an amazing game, it really is, and you know this, otherwise you wouldn’t be here wasting your precious time discussing about how to improve it.

But you do take that time to help us improve our games, and you deserve to be heard, more so, we really want and need to hear what you have to say, you are the reason we have a community department. One of the biggest advantages of having this level of interaction is that we can act as intermediaries between you and the developers, and this is where your feedback comes in.

We realize that LFR is a controversial feature and you can rest assured that we are paying full attention to the impact it has over our community. Some of us do share a lot of your concerns, but as always, we’re all different players, with different perspectives and objectives, so opinions on the matter will vary greatly.

What I really want to emphasize here is that we really do hear all of you. As a company we obviously need to have a common vision, planning, strategy, and goal, but understand that individually, most of us play our games just as passionately as you do. We all experience what you experience and this includes developers, game designers and project managers, and most importantly, we all have our own different opinions. It’s from the gathering and discussion of these opinions and the ones from our players that together we can reach a common vision with the common goal of making our games the best that they can possibly be.

Still you must realize that game designers can’t take in all feedback and apply it directly to the game, that’s why they were selected as game designers, they are great at making decisions, and these can be really tough to make sometimes, which is why changes usually cause controversy.

When LFR came out I too had quite a few concerns about it, just like I’m sure many of you had, and obviously, still have to this day.
LFR is still considered a new feature, we’re constantly evaluating its receptivity and its role on filling the gap between casual players and raiding without having it ruin anyone else’s game experience, it’s currently being tweaked for MoP and I’m sure it will continue to be adjusted until devs are completely satisfied with it.

Having said that, I would like give a few updates about LFR and its future in MoP.
We know that currently some guilds will feel that they aren’t maximizing their potential if they don’t run LFR to get particular pieces of gear and tier set bonuses when they’re starting to progress through DS, but for MoP you can expect LFR to provide very little competitive advantage (if any) to those guilds and here’s why:

  • We’re delaying LFR by one week, we don’t think there is a real need to delay it further than that. It would be an unnecessary punishment to players not in organized guilds because chances are that the real hardcore guilds out there will be able to clear Mogu'shan Vaults on normal difficulty within the first week of its release, which by the time they will be eligible to run LFR, they will also be eligible to start progressing on Heroic mode.
    So within a couple of weeks, LFR should serve almost no purpose to any hardcore raiding guild.
  • We must not forget that there is also another reason why those guilds feel that they’re currently “forced” to run LFR, and that reason is, because they can increase their members' chances of winning items by playing the loot system, which they won’t be able to do anymore in Mists of Pandaria with the changes we’ve introduced to the looting system.

Also here’s a brief plan about how raids will open on the LFR:
  • Mogu'shan Vaults will be split into two tiers, and each tier will have three bosses. Both of those tiers will be available one week after the release of the normal raid, and you will have to clear the first tier before being able to queue for the second one.
  • Heart of Fear will work in a similar way and will be split into two dungeons for LFR, each with three bosses.
  • Terrace of Endless Spring will be one single dungeon queue.
(Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blanket Silences and PvP Balance
Blanket silences lower the skill floor because they are not counterable (read: powerful) yet they are very simple to use.
I agree with you, it's quite obvious that using silence requires less skill than using normal interrupts but PvP Balance is a very tricky subject to deal with and one that can get extremely complex given the colossal amount of abilities, classes and specs that need to be equalized. I think we have to put a little more faith into development, if silences still exist it's because in a proper testing environment they seem to make sense and be required, if they were to be removed, a lot of other changes would have to follow to make up for the CC loss it opened up on the classes that depended most on them.

For Mists of Pandaria, we’ve tried to reduce the amount of available interrupt abilities across the board, and we certainly don’t intend to increase the amount of silences that already exist. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

PvP Vulnerability During Pet Battles
Only areas that flag you as PVP (such as Tol Barad or Wintergrasp) will affect PVE servers. Sorry for the confusion on this.

Flagging will of course work as it always has. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Updating Burning Crusade Zones
Going back to update old content is something that we always have to weigh up carefully. Any time spent doing so will take time away from making brand new content and features. But, as always, please make your thoughts known. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Stop Removing and Bringing Back old Armor
There's a real split opinion about this amongst the community. The fact is, we're going to be introducing loads of super slick new transmog gear in future. If you're looking to give your character the edge in the wardrobe department, there will be plenty of new obtainable pieces to aim for. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

No Option to Hide Shoulders
Unfortunately we're not planning on providing a 'hide' option for shoulder slots at this time. But due to transmogrification, there are heaps of options for your shoulder slots. There's no need to have "ugly" shoulders at all. If you just want to avoid the bulkiness of late-game gear, have you tried some minimalistic early game pieces? (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Human Racial
The main reason that players choose the human racial at the moment is to not take a medallion and get a PvE trinket instead. If you take a PvE trinket into a PvP environment in Mists though, you are sacrificing a lot. Not only to mention the base stats being added to medallions, but with PvP power being on them as well, which is an amazing stat, our intent is that PvP trinkets will be balanced out against their PvE counterparts. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

No Archaeology Fragment Reset in Mists of Pandaria
When MoP is released, will our fragment inventory be reset or will we be able to gather up to max now and save it for MoP?
We're probably not going to do any kind of reset. Most professions can stockpile mats to some extent and get a few easy points at the start of an expansion anyway. We don't think the benefits are substantial enough for this to be of a big concern to us. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Priest (Forums / Skills)
PW: Solace Change Feedback
So I have two questions now. Firstly are Disc Priests really expected to spend a quarter of a fight doing nothing? Secondly, why are some classes, bugs aside, allowed to have the room for a huge percentage of over healing when some of us can barely do our job with minimal over healing?
I'm not sure how you can argue that the Mistweaver being idle is an anomaly but the Disc priest being idle is mandatory because he or she lacks mana. It's hard to know without watching a video of the fight why certain healers were not healing 100%. You should be able to heal 100% though. What concerns me the most are those players who are trying to heal e.g. a Raid Finder encounter and running out of mana very quickly, or at least much faster than say Resto druids. Those are the situations I want to understand.

And, uh. FDCL?
I keep comparing Mindbender to Solace because the math is easier. FDCL should be a choice too, but it is about not spending the mana in the first place rather getting it back.

No offence GC but all Priests are having to play the game the way you prefer we are having to stand idle, as in not healing.
I agree, and I believe I said that as an illustration of why Solace will play well for some healing styles and not others. What I keep arguing is that if too many priests take Solace because they feel like they must for mana, that is bad for the game. Buffing the crap out of Solace so that priests feel like they always have enough mana is not a good design decision.

In other words, in Chakra: Sanctuary, every point of mana you spend on Heal buys about 41% fewer hitpoints for your raid than it would if you waited and spent it on PoH instead.
That's intended though. If say 3 people in the group are wounded, then Prayer of Healing is the right answer to that. It shouldn't be more efficient to cast Heal 3 times. If you are using Prayer of Healing to heal 1-2 players, or even more relevant, if you are casting Flash Heal or Greater Heal when a Heal will do, then you will start to run OOM.

Yet you have made nuking mandatory for Disc even without PW:Solace. The buff we get from A/AA cannot be ignored as Beta stands right now and even then we are struggling to compete with other healers, even Holy Priests, with the 25% buff from AA.
Archangel doesn't provide mana any longer and is on a 30 sec cooldown. I'm not certain that casting all of those Smites for the Archangel benefit net gets you ahead in HPS or HPM. If it does benefit your HPS in the long run (it was pretty break even last I looked), then I concede we took the choice away that Disc used to have about whether to use Atonement / Archangel or not.

I want to thank everyone who is arguing intelligently and providing numbers. All of that helps.

Crzed explains far better than I can why A/AA is now mandatory (he's talking specifically about Archangel here)
Yes, that was a good explanation. Penance plus Glyphed Holy Fire lets you stack Evangelism very quickly, which then makes you feel like you're supposed to do so. Probably the right solution is to have Penance provide only 1 stack (or even none).

Pretty much the same thing I was going to post. You say PoH is the right answer for 3 people and in many fights tested so far in 25 man there is never a shortage of groups with 3 people where PoH can be used with pretty low levels of overhealing. So we're using the spell you say is the correct answer but if we keep using it, even stacked in spirit gear with all spirit gems and buffs, it's not something we can sustain for very long. That's where the idle time comes from. We have to hold back and fill time with solace or just passive regen to be able to sustain the right answer over a 6 minute encounter.
Those are two different things though, which is why I'm trying to divorce priest mana from the Solace discussion. In a world without a five second rule, you aren't helping your regen at all by going idle. The only reasons to go idle are you don't think anyone needs healing at the moment or you literally don't have enough mana to cast anything. (If you can afford to heal a lot when nobody needs it, then you're just overhealing which mana management is intended to discourage.)

Maybe you could clarify if it is any of these situations:

A) You cast what you feel are appropriate spells and run OOM quickly. You then Shadow Fiend and then ultimately go OOM again (at which point priests with Solace use it to get back in the game).
B) You cast what you feel are appropriate spells but notice that when other healing classes do the same, they end up with far more mana than you.
C) You are so scared to cast anything that you stand around a lot.

As for A/AA, that is a terrible idea... As posted above, Penancing the boss is a trade off. You give up three stacks of Grace for some AoE capabilities to Penance (not likely, but maybe) and three stacks of Evangelism. Making it 1 or 0 stacks makes A/AA even harder to use... If you want us to use A/AA less, because you don't think we are "balanced" around it, either increase the CD to a minute or reduce the bonus to 15%. Else, keep it and let people Penance for stacks... that's just mean thinking of removing that,
We didn't realize the synergistic effects of having Penance provide 3 stacks plus the possibility of instant Holy Fires. All of that means that Evangelism is easier (relative to live) to stack, which means Disc really needs to use Archangel on cooldown to benefit from the healing boost. We prefer when Disc can choose to nuke the target. We don't want it to be mandatory. We could nerf Archangel's healing as an alternative.

While it would be nice if maintaining evangelism was not required, I think disc numbers would have to be brought up substantially. At the moment, AA is offering an average 15% buff to overall healing and is very easy to stack due to penance. You trade off the grace stacks to do this, but it is worth it for the buff. Disc just does not feel viable atm, especially in 25's, and this nerf wouldn't help that feeling a bit.

That's fine, but much as with Solace, we don't want Disc to be balanced around maximizing AA. If we need to nerf those mechanics and buff priests, then that's the right call.

Look at the logs I provided, without ~20% time spend solacing I wouldn't have the mana to be competitive.
I did, but I'm unsure what "competitive" means. Would you be out of mana and couldn't heal while other healers could keep going?

Actually they're saying that by not spending that mana on heal and instead idling/solacing, you set yourself up for larger returns later through using other spells. It doesn't make you regen any faster, but you're able to do more healing in the same window of time, increasing your efficiency. This is why solace feels required. Nerfing solace does nothing to fix the problem with our sustained efficiency, it just brings our burst potential more in line. No one is saying they like spamming solace a ton, it just happens to be the most efficient means for us to heal.
Okay, I think I understand the context. You're saying for a given GCD that generating mana through Solace to afford a more expensive heal is better than spending a GCD on Heal itself, which is slightly mana negative and not awesome throughput. It may be that priests with Solace don't Heal often, and we could live with that.

I disagree with your last bit though. Nerfing Solace does help to fix the problem with sustained efficiency, because it's masking a potential problem.

I think many of you guys are here: I need mana. Solace gives me mana. If you nerf Solace, I won't have mana.

But, I am here: Priests need to be able to function without Solace.

I think now that paladins and monks are hopefully not broken, we'll find that the other healers are closer together. If what several of you are saying is correct (druid > priest / shaman, or even druid > Holy / shaman > Disc) then that will show up pretty quickly.

I guess I have to really ask you a question, how hard is it supposed to be? At BC when I was doing heroic dungeons & kz it was a little challenging (that went away as gear got better). In WoTLK it was a breeze at the start. Cata was almost non-healable at start. So far Mists to me seems harder then BC but easier then Cata. I have not run out of mana doing the dungeons, but I have not hit the heroics yet. I will say I do pride myself on being very mana efficient (ever since the start), I don't cast a flash heal (even now in DS gear) if a heal will do.

The problem I see is if we are expected to stand idle, it is not fun. Doing nothing in a dungeon during a fight is not enjoyable plain and simple. I do think overall mana regen is an issue, if you want the vast majority people completing dungeons and having fun it needs to be higher. If you want what happened in Cata where people thew up their hands in frustration and walked away form healing then keep it as is. It really is a matter of what you want in your game.

Mana management was a little too hard for healers when Cataclysm launched. It felt better by the 4.1 and 4.3 dungeons. We want it to feel better in 5.0 than it did in 4.0, but we want mana to stay relevant longer, while it largely went away for 4.2 and 4.3 raiders.

You should never have to stand idle, so long as you are healing somewhat intelligently. If you are casting a lot of Flash Heals because your group is taking a lot of unnecessary damage then you probably need to change your group strategy. If you are casting a lot of Greater Heals or Prayers of Healing and overhealing, then you need to change your healing strategy. But you should have enough mana for a 3-5 min dungeon boss fight under almost any circumstances. Nearly all of the dungeon wipes I see are because players failed to understand the mechanic (which is often our fault) or failed to execute, not because the healer couldn't keep up.

I don't understand why it couldn't keep its 1.5s cast time and reduce the mana returns instead.
We are going to try Solace at a 1.5 sec cast and 0.7% of mana return.

Don't be too upset. I'm quite happy they nerfed it, now we can see where we are truly at without it mucking the numbers.

Most people using old tier scaled gear I think have been using t12 set bonuses for healing.
We read this a lot, but we're not actually seeing it a lot in the raid testing. Players doing so certainly aren't helping themselves at all, because you won't actually be raiding with the scaled up set bonus of your choice.

If it starts happening a lot, we'll just make those set bonuses not function on beta. We want to balance priests (and all healers) around a baseline case, not a gimmick like an old set bonus or even a mandatory talent.

I know this has nothing to do with Solace/Mana (well not much), but if you're feeling generous, could you please explain the thought behind our 2pc being 10% reduction to Flash Heal, a spell even you said should be used sparingly, when, like, Holy Pally gets 10% to Holy Radiance, a very commonly used spell?
We wanted the set bonus to let priests get more benefit out of Flash Heal, because we thought that would feel cool, because as you point out, it's normally something you can't use often. The paladin benefit is probably more useful, though their 4pc is a single-target heal while it's CoH for Holy. The Flash Heal set bonus could probably safely go up.

We're trying to get away, a little bit, from the design where every tank and every healer have virtual cloned set bonuses. It will make balance more challenging, but will ultimately help keep the game fresher. Set bonuses are one of the few really different things players have to look forward to in gear.

On the subject of mana returns, we're a little concerned about Inner Focus as well. It ends up being a tremendous source of mana for Disc, so much so, that the right behavior is probably to macro it to make sure it gets used on cooldown. We'd rather Inner Focus be a short cooldown with some flexibility (e.g. timing when the boss does a ton of damage) and not a button you have to use every 45 sec (or less with Train of Thought).

To be clear, using a macro to use Inner Focus and Greater Heal with one hotkey is fine. You're making the decision when you want to use Inner Focus. If you're using Inner Focus as soon as it is off cooldown, essentially turning into a passive, then we think it's dumb.

We would buff Disc, possibly through Meditation, if we made a change here.

Don't just remove it and add to Meditation. Do some innovative with it, if you are going to do anything.
We wouldn't remove it. It's a fun ability and we like the thought of Disc maximizing it with Spirit Shell, Divine Aegis PoH or in PvP with the glyph. We just want players to be able to benefit more from the throughput portion of the ability and not just have to use it as a short cooldown Evocate.

Sounds good to me. Will Inner Focus's throughput be buffed at all? It'd be great if the 25% increased critical strike chance was buffed, so that we could choose which heals it would be best to use it on.
We haven't finalized it yet, but we are trying 100% crit chance and 25% mana reduction -- essentially flipping the two values. The risk of overheal with a guaranteed crit would make it optimal not to macro, while not being horrible for anyone who just wants to keep it macro'd.

Thank you, GC. We really do appreciate the dialogue with you, despite letting our frustration getting the better of us sometimes.
Quite honestly, it is far better to have very passionate players than apathetic ones. It's a good thing overall.

When I ask you all to be constructive instead of venting, it's largely a selfish request so that I can efficiently get information I need to do my job better. We also want players to come to these forums for information, which they are more likely to do when the signal to noise ratio is good. Just include signal; that's all we ask.

Out of curiosity, on the average 6 minute fight what are you guys aiming for each of the three healers in a 10m to be putting out in terms of HPS? Are there going to be more fights this expansion where the dps requirements are too strict to allow 3 healers and they have to go dps (like the majority of DS?) Thanks again!
It's really hard to provide those numbers since healers have so much control over whether they are healing for maintenance or going all out. Healers can drive themselves out of mana quickly if they want to, but provide huge healing as a trade off. Often, it changes depending on what part of the fight you're in. We think having that degree of control is the fun part of the healer resource system. It's also why it is so challenging to tune longevity of healing specs compared to the throughput of DPS specs. As with PvP, we rely a lot on player testing and feedback for how healing feels, since it's hard for us to recreate healing or PvP environments. Harkening back to my oceanography roots, you have controlled laboratory experiments vs. field collection and sampling. Healing and PvP are hard to test well in the lab.

We definitely don't like forcing situations where healers get dropped for DPS. On the other hand, DPS checks are a good way to ensure that the encounters aren't balanced solely around the skill of the tanks and healers alone, and they can be fun for DPS as well. It's a sticky challenge (and again I don't mean to derail).

Is there any concern that with buffing Meditation to 50% for disc, on top of Rapture, that Disc mana regen will begin to outpace Holy's?

It's entirely possible, but from what I know, disc tends to have to spend more than holy does. I could be wrong of course, but disc regen is usually rather high, just spending a whole lot too.
We gave Disc a lower Meditation for this reason, but so far in actual player testing it's not bearing out, so we wanted to err on the side of being generous with mana. If further testing suggests that Disc now has much stronger regen or longevity than Holy, we can adjust further.

They're right. Solace is hitting unusually hard. I took smite and holy fire off my bars because they are no longer necessary. Might want to tune the damage down on this ability.
Good catch. We neglected to lower its damage when we cut the cast time back down. Easy fix. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Recent Shadow Priest Changes
I really just don't understand what you all are doing with us, and it sure as hell seems like you have no idea either. You want a tip? Stop taking advice from the 1,000,000 casuals that probably don't even theorycraft on beta and get some direct input from players that actually know how to play the spec and see how they feel about the changes.
You might have missed the post where I said class designers are required to take a drink every time we read “the devs don’t know what we’re doing with the class.” It’s hard to tune things when we take too many drinks, so please keep that in mind.

We do take feedback from experienced, intelligent players very seriously. It’s awkward for us to state outright in threads “Yeah, dude, I read your feedback, but you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about, so we’re doing to discount it.” On the other hand, there are brilliant theorycrafters who never step foot in raids, as hard as that might be to believe, and there are plenty of very hardcore raiders who are terrible armchair designers. Ultimately, one of the Blizzard core values is “every voice matters,” and we try to practice it here. Your words will convince us more than your deeds anyway. Stick to the strength of your arguments, not the awesomeness of your achievements.

We are a dot class, and our dots are our worst abilities.
I believe SW:Pain and VT do about 25% of Shadow’s damage, which seems fine for a dot class. Your dots don’t need to be your highest damage button in order to be a dot class, and in fact when they are, that leads to ignoring everything but the dots. Multi-dotting is cool, but we're not thrilled with the gameplay that is just dot everything in the room and ignore Mind Blast and Mind Flay. Dotting only is fine for large groups of weak mobs, but in a more traditional multi-dot situation, we want the dot juggling to be layered on top of the nukes, not to the exclusion of them.

Shadow does very well on Will of the Emperor, which is pretty much the best case scenario for multi-dotting. Yes, Affliction does even more dot damage, but that’s partially because Affliction has 3 dots. I’m not sure it’s a requirement for Shadow to do as much dotting as Affliction in order to be a fun spec and still feel like a dot class (and keeping up 3 dots on multiple targets can be harder than 2).

Overall, we do want specs like Shadow, Affliction and Balance to do well when multi-dotting is possible. What we don’t want is for those specs to dominate in multi-dot situations and be at the bottom on every other fight. We just can’t guarantee that every raid tier will have an equal number of single-target to multi-target fights, and unlike say a warlock, the Shadow priest doesn’t even have the option to respec to a different DPS spec to meet the needs of the encounter. All we’re trying to do is bring the extremes closer together.

We have no burst CD. Our burst CD is save orbs and lose overall damage.
I think this is a valid concern. Power Infusion is available as a talent, but there is still some pressure to use it on another character. On the other hand, it’s not absolutely essential that every single spec have the same spells. That's the sort of thing that leads to class homogenization. We’ll consider some options here.

Our damage relative to other classes is low, this really can't be argued with.
I’ll argue with it. Slyck was the only one to try and post numbers in this thread, and those logs show Shadow doing well on Will of the Emperor and less well on Grand Empress. But there is also a mage and a warrior down there with the priest, and you would have to dig into these logs more thoroughly anyway, since Grand Empress puts debuffs on casters than can cause them to go stand in the corner for periods of time. I’m not sure what the argument is with the Feng parse. The priest seem to be in the pack with many other classes. Slyck’s argument is that their damage barely goes up in execute range, but it does go up, and seems to mirror that of the warriors, who have a great execute.

Also keep in mind, many buffs and nerfs have gone out since these parses were made (partially as a response to all of the raid parses we got). We’re going to be doing some more raid tests this week, so we’ll get more data. Please keep an eye on it.

But don't rage over this ^ SW:Insanity is supposed to be a baseline ability for Shadow.
I can’t tell if this was intended to be sarcasm or not, but Insanity is what happens when you choose the Solace talent and go Shadowform.

Item - Priest T14 Shadow 4P Bonus now also increases the damage done by Shadow Word: Insanity by 15%. How in the world does that make sense, work with your desire for Mists of Pandaria nor even not come across as hypocritical?
The original set bonus change is essentially a nerf to the Insanity talent, so the change we made was just to keep it breaking even. We don’t consider, and haven’t seen any evidence, that Insanity is a mandatory talent. Surge of Darkness and Mindbender should provide similar DPS over the course of a fight. Insanity is probably the most complex of the talents do to the consuming mechanic, so we definitely don’t want it to be mandatory. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Poll: Favorite Mists of Pandaria Beta Zone
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
You’ve tested, you’ve explored, and you’ve done a great job sharing feedback. Now let’s sit back, take a breather for a moment, and chat about the beautiful zones in Pandaria. There are seven primary new locations to adventure in, and we want to know which one has been your favorite and why.

Blizzard Games News
This week in Blizzard Entertainment News Pico give us a heads up World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Jinro, from Team Liquid's retirement.

by Published on 2012-08-07 11:22 PM

Update: Monks will not be able to receive a Scroll of Resurrection invitation.

Mists of Pandaria Beta - Build 15952
A new beta build will be deployed on beta realms soon. We will be updating these notes frequently, so keep checking back! Don't miss another new Item Upgrade string, ITEM_UPGRADE_STAT_AVERAGE_ITEM_LEVEL, indicating that Valor Upgrades are still in the works!

Set Bonus Changes
Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
Druid (Forums / Skills)
  • Item - Druid T14 Guardian 4P Bonus - Increases the healing received from your Frenzied Regeneration by 10% and increases the dodge granted by your Savage Defense by an additional 5% (was 10%).

Paladin (Forums / Skills)
  • Item - Paladin T14 Protection 4P Bonus - Increases the healing done by your Word of Glory spell by 10% (was 20%) and increases the damage reduction of your Shield of the Righteous ability by 10%.

Priest (Forums / Skills)

Warrior (Forums / Skills)

Achievement Changes
Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
Feats of Strength

Pandaria Raid
Dungeons & Raids
  • Straight Six was reworded: Deactivate six Empyreal Focuses within 10 seconds of eachother, and then defeat Elegon in Mogu'shan Vaults on Normal or Heroic difficulty.

New Items
For a full list of the new items, check out WoWDB!

Level Type Spec Slot Name
1JunkCache of Sha-Touched Gold
1JunkMarauder's Gleaming Sack of Gold
90OtherMisty Satchel of Exotic Mysteries
90LeatherHeadReplica Shado-Pan Helmet
516LeatherPhysical DPSLegsLegguards of Failing Purification
503LeatherPhysical DPSLegsLegguards of Failing Purification
90MailHeadReplica Shado-Pan Helmet
503MailPhysical DPSShouldersWaterborne Shoulderguards
516MailPhysical DPSShouldersWaterborne Shoulderguards
90PlateHeadReplica Shado-Pan Helmet
78DaggerPhysical DPSOff HandHigh Warlord's Razor

Strings Changes
Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
  • REPORT_PET_NAME_CONFIRMATION - Are you sure you want to report %s for inappropriate pet name?
  • TRANSFER_ABORT_XREALM_ZONE_DOWN - Transfer Aborted: cross-realm zone is down

Spell Changes
Originally Posted by MMO-Champion


  • Lucky is no longer a Battle Pet.

Druid (Forums)
  • Clearcasting no longer affects Nourish.
  • Frenzied Regeneration health amount was changed, see the tooltip.
  • Moonfire damage reduced by 10%. DoT base damage reduced by 30% and SP scaling reduced by 10%. Duration of DoT reduced by 22%.
  • Wrath damage reduced by 13%.

  • Eclipse now increases all all Arcane / Nature damage done by 15% during Solar / Lunar Eclipse, down from 20%.
  • Mastery: Total Eclipse now increases the bonus damage from Eclipse by 15%, down from 20%.
  • Starfire damage reduced by 13%.
  • Sunfire damage reduced by 10%. DoT base damage reduced by 30% and SP scaling reduced by 10%. Duration of DoT reduced by 22%.


Hunter (Forums)
  • Arcane Shot weapon damage reduced by 32% and additional damage reduced by 52%.
  • Glaive Toss base damage doubled, but the primary target will take 4 times as much damage from each strike, down from 8 times. AP scaling was doubled to 20%.
  • Serpent Sting damage was reduced by 20%.
  • Steady Shot damage was reduced by 29% and additional damage was reduced by 75%.

  • Barrage now costs 30 Focus, down from 40. Weapon damage to secondary target doubled.
  • Blink Strike damage bonus upon blinking tripled.
  • Glaive Toss now costs 15 Focus, down from 20. Damage bonus was halved.
  • Lynx Rush damage doubled.
  • Powershot damage to secondary targets doubled and Focus cost halved.
  • Thrill of the Hunt now has a 30% proc chance, up from 20%.

Beast Mastery
  • Beast Cleave now strikes all other nearby enemy targets for 30%, up from 25%.
  • Focus Fire now grants 6% haste per stack, up from 5%.
  • Kill Command damage and scaling reduced by 30%.

Beast Mastery & Survival



  • Bite damage was reduced by ~20%.
  • Claw damage was reduced by ~20%.
  • Smack damage was reduced by ~20%.

Mage (Forums)
  • Frost Bomb damage was increased by 10%.
  • Frostfire Bolt damage was reduced by 7%.
  • Ice Lance damage was reduced by 7%.
  • Molten Armor now reduces all physical damage taken by 6% instead of reducing the duration of all harmful Physical effects used against you by 25%.


  • Arcane Barrage's damage is increased by 25% per Arcane Charge, up from 20%.
  • Arcane Blast damage was reduced by 10%. Damage is increased by 25% per Arcane Charge, up from 20%.
  • Arcane Charge now stacks up to 6 times.
  • Arcane Missiles's damage is increased by 25% per Arcane Charge, up from 20%.



Major Glyphs
  • Water Elemental: When in Assist mode and in combat, commanding your Water Elemental to Follow will cause it to stay near you and autocast Waterbolt when your target is in range.

Monk (Forums)


  • Avert Harm now has a 3 min cooldown, up from 1 min. Duration reduced to 6 sec, down from 15 sec. Reworked: You cause 30% of all damage party and raid members within 10 yards take to be re-directed to you. The damage received through Avert Harm can be Staggered.

  • Renewing Mist mana cost reduced to 4.58% of Base Mana, down from 6.55%.
  • Soothing Mist now has a 25% chance to generate 1 Chi, up from 20%.


Paladin (Forums)

  • Divine Purpose: Abilities that cost Holy Power have a 25% chance to cause the Divine Purpose effect, up from 20%. Now has an 8 sec duration.
  • Eternal Flame additional healing reduced by 72%.
  • Holy Avenger now has an additional effect: Abilities that generate Holy Power will deal 30% additional damage and healing.
  • Sanctified Wrath now has an additional effect for Protection: Avenging Wrath also increases healing received by 20%.

  • Divine Storm weapon damage increased by 12.5%.
  • Exorcism damage reduced by 15%.
  • Sword of Light now jncreases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 10%, down from 20%.
  • Templar's Verdict now does 280% was (260%) weapon damage plus 1,918 (was 1,633).

Retribution & Protection

Priest (Forums)

  • From Darkness, Comes Light now grants 50% additional damage from the Surge of Darkness proc, up from 20%.
  • Power Word: Solace now has a 1.5 sec cast time, down from 2 sec. Base damage increased by 50% and SP scaling increased by 185%. Mana restoration reduced to .7% of maximum mana, down from 2%.


Shaman (Forums)


  • Flurry now grants 15% attack speed, down from 20%.


Warlock (Forums)




Warrior (Forums)
  • Shield Barrier now absorbs ((max((AP - 200% of STR) * 200 / 100,25000% of STA / 100) * 1) / 3) damage for the next 6 sec.

Blood Elf


  • Berserking had a wording change to melee, ranged, and spell haste, rather than attack and casting speed.

  • Many Jewelcrafting spells no longer require a Simple Grinder, and instead require a Jeweler's Kit.

Raid & Dungeon Abilities
  • Amethyst Pool Lasts 60 sec. Lasts 1.33333333333333 min.
  • Arcane Blast Each time you cast Arcane Blast, the damage of all Arcane spells is increased by 20% 25% and mana cost of Arcane Blast is increased by 125%. Effect stacks up to 4 6 times and lasts 10 sec or until any Arcane damage spell except Arcane Blast is cast.
  • Blade Rush General Pa'valak throws his sword at an enemy's location, inflicting 100,000 120,000 Physical damage to all players within 4 yards on impact. Once the sword lands, General Pa'valak charges to it, inflicting 100,000 120,000 Physical damage to all players within 4 yards, knocking them back.
  • Blade Rush General Pa'valak throws his sword at an enemy's location, inflicting 100,000 120,000 Physical damage to all players within 4 yards on impact. Once the sword lands, General Pa'valak charges to it, inflicting 100,000 120,000 Physical damage to all players within 4 yards, knocking them back.
  • Bulwark Protects the caster in a defensive shield, absorbing 1,000,000 damage. 6,000,000 damage.
  • Destabilizing Energies Exposure to Total Annihilation causes lasting negative effects, rooting the enemy in place and inflicting 75,000 stunning the enemy and inflicting 45,000 Arcane damage every 2 seconds until the target is healed to full health. 80 of max health.
  • Detonate Explodes, inflicting 200,000 500,000 Fire damage and increases all damage taken by 5%.
  • Discharge Inflicts 28,500 Inflicts 35,625 Arcane damage to all enemies.
  • Dread Shadows Inflicts 20,000 Inflicts 30,000 Shadow damage and increases Dread Shadows damage taken by 10%.
  • Energy Cascade Inflicts 95,000 Inflicts 166,250 Arcane damage to all enemies within 5 yards.
  • Enveloping Darkness Envelopes an enemy in darkness, inflicting 8,000 12,000 Shadow damage every 3 sec.
  • Maddening Shout Inflicting 45,000 Shadow damage every 2 Inflicting 65,000 Shadow damage every 3 sec and causing all enemies to hate each other, players regain their sanity after taking 30,000 damage from another player.
  • Overwhelming Fear Terrorizes an enemy, inflicting 50,000 200,000 Shadow damage and fearing them for 10 sec.
  • Pheromones Every 2 seconds, Pheromones inflicts 15,000 20,000 Nature damage to allies within 300 yards and increases damage dealt by Pheromones by 10% for 1.25 min. 2 min.
  • Radiating Energies Inflicts 9,025 Inflicts 19,000 Arcane damage to all players inside the Energy Vortex.
  • Shadowburn Burns an enemy target's soul, inflicting 0 30,000 Shadow damage every 2 sec for 20 sec.
  • Spray Water bursts from the ground at an enemy's feet, inflicting 97,500-205,000 100,000 Frost damage to all enemies within 2.5 yds and increasing their Frost damage taken by 16% for 15 sec. 10 sec.
  • Stability Flux Low on health, the Celestial Protector pulses arcane energy, inflicting 19,000 23,750 Arcane damage to all enemies.
  • Tempest General Pa'valak unleashes a tempest, inflicting 50,000 70,000 Nature damage to all players within 60 yards and negating the next 30,000 points of healing on the target.
  • Titan Gas Titan Gas fills the room, dealing 20,000 25,000 Frost damage every 1 seconds to all players and energizing any constructs, increasing damage dealt by 0% and attack speed by 25%.
  • Total Annihilation Inflicts 146,250 Inflicts 219,375 Arcane damage to all enemies in area.
  • Unstable Bolt Inflicts 100,000 Inflicts 150,000 Shadow damage, but costs the Unstable Sha 15% of its total health to cast.
  • Wind Bomb A violent explosion of wind inflicts 250,000 350,000 Nature damage to all players.
  • Wind Bomb Wind Lord Mel'jarak hurls a volatile bomb at a player, inflicting 100,000 Nature damage to all players within 5 yards, knocking them back.

by Published on 2012-08-07 07:13 AM

Game-Limits Now Live, 1.0.4 Developer Blogs, Diablo III Profiles - More Info, Ugly As Sin: Azmodan Brought to Life, Curse Weekly Roundup

Pandaria Faction Capital Changes
The last patch added some of the things that people have been requesting since we originally previewed the new Faction Capitals. You can now find a Void Storage and Transmogrification NPC near the Reforging NPC. Training Dummies have also been added outside of the city and the Horde city now has the 60% speed buff to help you get around quickly. Finally, all of the NPCs have dialogues and sell the items that they are supposed to!

Lorewalker Story: Between a Saurok and a Hard Place
In Mists of Pandaria there are several extra lore related achievements to go with the regular zone exploration achievements.

Once you have found all of the objects for an achievement, Lorewalker Cho will send you mail that asks you to meet him at the Seat of Knowledge. Once there he will narrate a small story that gives you some more information about Pandaria lore.

In the video below, the Between a Saurok and a Hard Place story is told to you.

World Boss Preview
Blizzard published a preview of the Salyis's Warband encounter today, but if you want to see a video and the full list of skills, check out our new boss pages! Loot tables are not available yet.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Check out the Mists of Pandaria preview website and get a first glimpse at one of the two new roaming world bosses: Salyis’s Warband! These extremely powerful monsters will do everything in their power to make your life more... “interesting” as you explore the mysterious continent of Pandaria.

World bosses spawn in the open world and can be attacked by any player (un)fortunate enough to cross their paths. Salyis's Warband will be quite rare, while the expansion's other boss will appear with fairly regular frequency. But before you charge headfirst into battle, keep in mind that it will take the combined efforts of a full raid to bring one of these guys to their knees.

Taking down a world boss is no small feat, but the rewards make it all worthwhile: achievements, fabulous items, and massive bragging rights will all be yours if you and your comrades in arms succeed in felling one of these roving terrors. Check back soon for more info on the game's other world boss, the Sha of Anger! (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Beta Class Balance Analysis
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Hunter (Forums / Skills)
I've been trying to get accurate pet focus regen numbers but it's difficult to test accurately in game given the limits of the display and the fact that none of it ends up in the log. Currently it looks like the base pet focus regen is around 5 fps, but is it possible a blue poster could confirm if that's the correct number? It would also be extremely helpful if pet focus regen (and crit chance for that matter) were added to the pet display.

Also if I'm testing correctly, it looks like spiked collar does not increase pet focus regen (even though it is called haste and not attack speed). Which haste and attack speed bonuses increase regen for pets has never been incredibly clear or consistent. The terminology doesn't seem to be a reliable clue and measuring pet focus regen precisely is difficult. Is there a chance of this getting clarified at some point?

Base pet Focus regen is 5 per second (which is different from base hunter Focus regen, which is 4). Spiked Collar is indeed just attack speed, not actual haste; we’ve fixed the tooltip for the next build. Thanks for pointing that out. Same with Berserking; we’ve updated that to say Haste instead of Attack Speed.

Druid (Forums / Skills)
Question about the Guardian 4pc bonus. Does the 10% to Savage Defense mean:

0.45 * 1.1 = 0.495
0.45 + .1 = 0.55

It was multiplicative, but since that can be read ambiguously, we’ve adjusted it to say that it adds an additional 5% dodge chance (yes, that’s a very slight buff).

I dont know if its intended but the last spell cast in ether Eclipse is not buffed when fully cast. For example, when casting wrath with 15 or less solar energy the spell says its buffed however when the cast completes it uses the unbuffed damage. The same for starsurge and starfire in lunar. Its very misleading.
Unintended; we’ll get that fixed.

Monk (Forums / Skills)
Any there any plans to change the way Shuffle refresh is managed for Brewmasters?

What I mean in regard to this is how Shuffle is unable to refresh to the full 12 sec duration unless it is 6.0 seconds or below. At the beginning of a Shuffle application you can get it to 12 seconds. However at any point above 6.1 seconds Shuffle will never refresh to 12 seconds. This makes it very frustrating because you have to watch the time on Shuffle to be below the 6.0 mark to reapply it. I understand a Brewmaster wouldn't want to waste Chi by reapplying Shuffle too early or often but even at 6.1 seconds it will just waste 2 Chi without increasing duration to 12 seconds.

I wouldn't even mind if you say had Shuffle at 7 seconds and did a BoK that it went only to 12 seconds (the cap right now of time) than simply eating our 2 Chi and that's that. However, I think it'd be best if any reapplication of Shuffle above 6 seconds should automatically refresh it to 12 seconds.

In the build after next, you’ll find that Shield Block, Savage Defense, Shuffle, and Shield of the Righteous will always add their duration to the existing buff if there is one, instead of just adding an imaginary tick. If you hit Blackout Kick with 7 seconds left on Shuffle, it’ll go up to 13 seconds remaining.

Shaman (Forums / Skills)
There are several changes coming for shaman in the next build, some of which won’t be easily datamined, so we’d like to let you know about them. We shifted around where damage comes from for both Elemental and Enhancement. The overall damage should be down a bit, but both specializations should still feel strong. Remember, if you’re giving feedback and making comparisons to other classes and specs, please list who you’re comparing to, as it’s quite possible that you’re feeling underpowered compared to someone who is overpowered.

The Fire Elementals were stronger than we wanted, so we reduced the amount of spell power that the standard version gets to 40%, down from 55% (Primal: 60%, down from 82.5%). The Primal Elementalist talent was also too strong, so we reduced the damage of the Primal Fire Elemental’s Immolate DoT by 65%. Also on the topic of talents, Elemental Blast was too weak, so we increased its damage and stat effects by roughly 17%, but reduced its proc chance with Echo of the Elements to 6% for Enhancement (previously it had a 30% chance to trigger an Echo for Enhancement, which made that talent pair too strong).

Further, on the topic of shocks, we recently reduced the shared cooldown of shocks to 5 seconds for Elemental shaman. More recently, we lowered Earth Shock’s damage a bit and significantly increased Flame Shock’s damage.

Specific to Enhancement, we wanted to bring DPS down a bit and also make them feel like more of their damage was coming from their active buttons, rather than passively. The one significant change that you probably won’t be able to datamine is an increase to Feral Spirits’ damage. They now get 50% of your attack power each, up from 30%. And their Spirit Bite ability’s damage has more than doubled. The net result should be that Feral Spirits are significantly stronger than before, probably somewhere between 70% and 100% stronger, depending on gear.

Priest (Forums / Skills)
Renew seems to be benefiting from 15% bonus when in Chakra: Serenity-- akin to it being considered a Single Target Heal. Additionally, it also seems to be auto-refreshing (and thus, gaining an additional tick). Is this intended performance? If so, it dramatically affects the value of Renew and its corresponding Chakra: States as well as the Glyph of Renew when running Sims and Spreadsheeting haste values.
The 15% benefit to Renew from Serenity is intended. We decided it made more sense to associate Renew with Serenity and not Sanctuary. Renew refreshing itself to get that extra tick is not intended and we will fix.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Beta Raiding Class Balance
When I'm being outhealed by a factor of two by any Joe Schmoe paladin or monk who happens to wander into a raid...I'm sorry, but skill is simply not going to overcome that. I don't even want to think about what a good paladin could do. At least not until I have one.

But be realistic. Do you think Blizzard will let such a disparity last into Live and if so, for any real determinate amount of time? Even during "Your class brings utility, shut it" era of TBC the numbers never went for that big of a spread.
It's probably not possible to overcome that much of a difference. Fortunately, you don't have to, because paladins and monks both had some egregious bugs that inflated their healing. We actually hotfixed those bugs but then a new build broke them again. Until you get a new build or we hotfix the issues again, you are probably better off comparing druid, priest and shaman healing. I apologize for any inconvenience.

Overall, I would recommend not deciding who you're going to bench based on beta testing until we are very close to ship. It's not a great strategy to try to get your character buffed either.

there being no Spirit whatsoever on the Legendary Sha weapons
Well, the weapons themselves aren't legendary, but the Intellect mace is supposed to have Spirit on it. That's a bug.

Also one thing to consider is that benching and stacking of classes in the top guilds has less to do with SimCraft numbers and more of certain mechanics being very powerful on certain fights. Case in point: Paragon's 11 Druids on their first Heroic Nefarian kill.
Agreed. Remember guilds in those world first situations are doing content very undergeared compared to what we expect because they are skipping the weeks of farming. In those situations players have to resort to some unusual strategies to make up the difference. In general (though not always depending on what they feel like they have to do) those type of machinations are fun for the guilds in questions and very few players are affected overall.

When we see widespread stacking, that crosses the line. In retrospect, the dependence on quick burst for a fight like Spine might cross the line. Overall, we didn't see a ton of stacking or sitting for the Cataclysm raids and we'll try to do even better for the new content.

For the record, I believe there is evidence the PW: Solace thread that druids are outpacing priests and shaman as well, but not nearly as much, the major issue seems to be the longevity.
That is possible. As I have said repeatedly, if every priest is taking Solace, we'll continue to nerf it until the perception is that it is on par with the other talents. We don't want Solace to be a required talent.

I believe we have the paladin and monk fixed and we have some more raid testing ongoing so we'll be able to get some better data.

We're in a situation again where we have made several changes to a variety of class mechanics but haven't been able to get a build up with fresh data. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Priest (Forums / Skills)
Feeback on Priest Changes
This is a combination of responses to some points in this thread and a couple of others, such as the "bench" thread.

When we stop seeing posts that rank Solace priests ahead of Mindbender priests, then we'll feel like the talents are in a better spot. Not every priest wants to have to cast nukes as part of their healing rotation, and we are just not going to make Solace mandatory. If you enjoy the style, awesome. That talent is for you. You shouldn't have to take it though. (When I heal, I tend to play the mana game a lot, because healing just enough without overheating is fun for me. Rather than overheal, I'll gladly sit idle a lot rather than waste a heal. Solace would work well for me. Other healers, even some I play with, want to stay more active and keep spells queued up and cancel them or just keep everyone topped off. That's cool too. The game supports lots of different healing styles, except for the one where you just spam your highest HPS spell and nothing else, which hasn't been supported since Icecrown.)

We're not noticing a big longevity problem between priests and druids. Shaman seemed a little low so we are examining the impact of the Water Shield and Resurgence chances. We may also lower the cost of Healing Rain. It is definitely a challenging thing to sim out how much mana the various healers use because it has a lot to do with spell choice. You should be able to use your more expensive heals somewhat, but you should also be casting a lot of Heals as well.

We don't feel like mana regen in 5-player dungeons is at all a problem. Mana felt tighter (too tight in retrospect) in Cataclysm launch. If you are running out while healing a dungeon boss, I would suspect it's because you are using Flash and it's equivalents too often or you're just used to the rapid mana regen of full Dragon Soul gear. It's possible mana is tighter in raids, especially 25 player, but we're running a lot of raid tests right now and it's just not a common theme we're hearing from those players, which again leads me to want to understand what is going on for players who feel they are struggling. Again, being as specific as possible would help. Which bosses? How far into the fight are you struggling for mana? How quickly are you having to Shadow Fiend? Are you wearing Mists quest greens, Mists PvP gear, or scaled up Dragon Soul raid gear?

Returning Holy Concentration to a higher value is extremely unlikely. We felt that created more class balance problems than it solved. We are more likely to lower priest and or shaman heal costs if we think it is needed. We just don't want to be in a situation where we improve priest and shaman healing now and are then forced to nerf them after launch. Nobody will be happy with that outcome.

I'll dig into the "Realistic 60 sec Holy priest average" posted. You shouldn't feel, with any mana talent choice, that are you are sitting around a lot too scared to heal. (The example I used for my healing style above is just one play style, not the only valid way to play. I could overheal a lot more and still be fine.) The risk should be that any time you replace a Heal with a Flash Heal that it's going to hurt a little, but sometimes that is still the right call. A priest casting nothing but Heal should last indefinitely. That isn't true of say a paladin who uses a lot of free spells. PW:Shield for Disc is a little more risky. It has a lot of benefits, but overall you should be rewarded for shielding folks who are taking damage and not just throwing it around indiscriminately on the raid. The former should benefit you through Rapture. The latter should slowly run you OOM. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Content Difficulty and Consumption Speed
If blizzard actually believe LFR keeps people interested beyond 2 weeks, I am SERIOUSLY worried for the game. They must see how shallow and short spanned it is.
There's a broad spectrum of players on this game. And the LFR is interesting to some of those players, just as Heroic, soul-crushing bosses are interesting to a different set of players, and then you get everything in between. The community is way more different that what some of you think it is. Even the motivation behind each of us is entirely different in some cases. Some might raid for the loot, some might raid for the lore, others for the achievements, others for the challenge, others for the social experience of tackling content with their friends... and so on. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Madness Heroic and Ragnaros Heroic Mounts
Will the mounts be an 1% drop ish in MoP? Or do they stay as current 100%?
The developers haven't decided yet how they'll handle it, but it's likely they'll make some adjustments. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Raid Testing Schedule - August 7
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Raid testing will continue on Tuesday.

Each encounter should be available at approximately the listed times below for all Beta Test Realms, regardless of suggested geographical region.

Gara'jal the Spiritbinder (Mogu'shan Vaults) - 10 Player Heroic
10:30 PDT (13:30 EDT, 19:30 CEST)

Sha of Fear (Terrace of Endless Spring) - 25 Player Normal
16:00 PDT (19:00 EDT, 01:00 CEST)

As always, this testing schedule is very fluid and subject to the realities of a beta environment. We might have to change the time of a testing session or cancel it entirely, due to bugs, builds, server hardware issues, etc. Keep an eye on this forum for the latest information, and thank you in advance for testing and providing feedback.

MMO Report
The MMO Report is here with news on the Secret World’s creepy new Unleashed update, SWTOR going free-to-play, and more!

by Published on 2012-08-05 07:35 PM

Inferno Booster Pack Giveaway, Demon Hunter Inferno Guide, Diablo 3 Arcade, and Demon Hunter Sculpture

Valor of the Ancients Buff
Mists of Pandaria is going to make it easier for you to earn Valor points on your alts once your main character is capped for the week. The Valor of the Ancients buff increases the Valor earned on all of your characters on a realm by 50%, after one character has capped for the week. This comes along with another change to Valor points that limits the amount you may hold at any time to 3,000 per character.

Jaina Audio for Theramore Event
One of the recent beta patches added some more audio for Jaina during the Theramore event. If you haven't already listed to the previous audio, listen to it first! See the long standing thread about Jaina in the Mists of Pandaria forum if you are interested in more speculation and discussion of the lore!

Beta Class Balance Analysis
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Warlock (Forums)
There is some major bug going on with Fel Flame and Corruption & UA. Tagging a target with Fel Flame seems to cause Corruption & UA to over double in damage.
Warlock DoTs are incorrectly increasing their damage. This is a bug, and will be fixed in the next build.

Could a blue poster please confirm/deny this bug, or if it's intended? It looks like the 50% extra damage DOTs aren't benefiting from Spell Power buffs. It says 50% of normal periodic damage in the tool tip, so if this is intended, it's a pretty hard nerf from the original MG effect.
This was the aforementioned bug with Fel Flame approximately doubling the damage of Corruption, which was unintended (and doesn’t apply to the extra ticks granted by MG). For doing target dummy and theorycrafting testing, it’s probably best for you to not use Fel Flame as Affliction (unfortunately, Demonology has no such way to avoid extending Corruption). This bug has nothing to do with spellpower.

We understand that this bug is significantly skewing impressions of the Warlock specs, and hope to have a new build up to fix this soon.

Hunter (Forums)
Glaive Toss incurs a 1.5s global cooldown, unlike the 1s incurred by any other direct damage hunter ability. Is this intended?
I've noticed and fixed that yesterday, actually. Fixed for the next build.

Shaman (Forums)
So, if I am reading this correctly, on targets below 35% HP, each Chain Heal jump should have a 50% change to proc Earthliving, and each Healing Rain tick should have a 30% chance to proc Earthliving? Is this correct, or was the datamined change to Earhliving Weapon actually the removal of the 80% increased proc chance on Chain Heal and Healing Rain?
This is correct.

Is there any chance the developers could enlighten us as to Healing Rain's chance to proc Earthliving Weapon? It seems as though Chain Heal's is 0.2 x 0.25 = 0.05 (i.e. the chance is reduced by the maximum number of targets). Healing Rain is 0.2 x ??? = ???.

Either number will help me immensely! I am getting anywhere from 5.3 - 8% chance when testing it myself, and I just can't make these numbers reconcile with anything logical like "number of targets in the healing rain" or "number of targets at which the DR cap begins to apply". I'm interested in the proc chance when we are *above* 35% health. From there I can work out the rest. Thanks!

Earthliving has a 20% base chance to proc, and an additional 80% (additive, total of 100%) if the target was below 35% HP when the triggering heal landed. After that, the chance is multiplied by 0.3 for Healing Rain, and 0.5 for Chain Heal.

For example, a chain heal on a healthy target has a 10% chance to trigger Earthliving. A Healing Rain tick on a healthy target has a 6% chance to trigger Earthliving.

Mage (Forums)
Here’s another bit of info I want to pass on sooner rather than waiting for a new build to get to you all, about Arcane Mages.

One of the defining characteristics of Arcane Mages has been that they can trade more mana for more damage, at a decreasing efficiency. In other words, they can play conservative, and use their mana as frugally as possible in order to maximize sustained damage. Or, they can play aggressively and increase their DPS now, in exchange for lower sustained damage over the course of the whole fight.

Arcane’s sustained damage is about where we want it (as well as Fire and Frost), barring some minor tweaks perhaps. But, they’re currently playing very high on their Arcane Blast stacks. The goal is to have their rotations change significantly based on which level 90 talent they pick. An Arcane Mage with Invocation should play very aggressively and frequently stop to recharge their batteries. An Arcane Mage with Rune of Power should generally play rather conservative, but stay at relatively high mana to maximize Mana Adept. And with Incanter’s Ward, an Arcane Mage should generally play the traditional mix of conserve/burn/evocate.

What we’re actually seeing are all three styles playing much more aggressively than we’re aiming for. There’s effectively a ceiling of just how much you can convert more mana into more damage. Invokers are playing so aggressively that they never drop their Arcane Charges at all, Rune users are staying at a 4 stack for a majority of the time, and Incanters are able to play more aggressively during their conserve phases and burn longer.

In order to try to solve this, we decided to try raising the ceiling. So, in the next beta build, you’ll find the max Arcane Charges has been raised from 4 to 6, and the damage increase per stack is back up to 25% from 20%. I’d like to emphasize that the goal of these changes are to create the gameplay flexibility that we’re hoping for there to be with Arcane, not to change Arcane’s overall DPS. There will likely need to be additional changes after this to readjust their damage back to where we want it. Feedback about how it feels, and theorycrafting analyzing the effects this has on them are especially appreciated.

Death Knight (Forums)
Also, a little tidbit for DKs who kept reading through all that Mage stuff: Blood Tap is back off the GCD in the next build.

Doing LFR I realized that my bloodworms were doing about 35% of my healing done (compared to live, where it does less than ~5%.). I was also competing against healers on healing done. (I was averaging out to 40k HPS on the stone guards, compared to other healers who are just a bit higher.) Is this intended?
Nope, it wasn't intended. Bloodworms were getting significantly more health (and therefore healing) from pet scaling than intended. For theorycrafters, they dropped from 25% to 6% of the Death Knight’s max health.

Thanks for letting us know, this has been fixed for the next build.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Subscriber Losses
A very clear drop happened after Diablo was released. I'm confident Mists will be incredibly strong. (Twitter)

Monk Leveling Speed Benefits
Any word on the faq on Scroll of Resurrection and Recruit a Friend guidelines for monks?
We're still working on gathering a few remaining details. We'll have more info for you... next week, maybe? Hopefully! (Twitter)

Mists of Pandaria Collector's Edition
If I purchase the MoP CE, will I get the mount and pet on all my accts, or just the one that's a CE?
It applies to all licenses attached to your account.

So if you have 2 wow accts, you get the mount and pet on both? Even if you onky make one a CE?
That's how it should work as long as they're all on the same account. (Twitter)

Computers - Setup of the Month (by chaud)
Each month or every 2 months, depending on the hardware evolutions, the lovely chaud will work on a couple of hardware setups for those of you who are thinking of upgrading their computer!

This month
Hard drive prices are slowly declining, but are still above the pre-flood prices, so now is still a good time to buy a SSD. The current SSD prices are still slowly moving downward, with most under $1 per gigabyte now. A few sales have even gone under 50 cents per gigabyte, so look for something on sale!

Unless you are doing a lot of video rendering or something that is similarly multithreaded, you do not need the 3770K and should spend that money elsewhere.

Make sure to keep your AMD and Nvidia drivers up to date.

Don't hesitate to post any feedback in the comments of that news post, and don't forget to visit the Computer Forum for any extra questions! If you are interested in Folding@home, take a look in our team's thread.

ComponentPuppy Dolphin
MonitorAcer V223W EJBD 22-Inch Widescreen - $138ASUS VW246H 24-Inch Widescreen - $190
KeyboardLogitech Media Keyboard K200 - $18Cyborg V.5 - $49
MouseLogitech G400 - $34Razer Deathadder - $42
SpeakersLogitech S220 2.1 Speaker System - $23Logitech Z313 Speaker System - $40
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
MonitorASUS VE276Q 27-Inch - $254HP ZR2440W 24-inch (IPS Panel) - $363
KeyboardLogitech G110 - $52Razer BlackWidow (Backlit)- $70 ($104)
MouseLogitech G500 - $54Razer Naga (Buttons on the Side) - $72
SpeakersLogitech Z323 2.1 Speaker System - $60Logitech Speaker System Z523 - $70

Puppy and Dolphin
Overclocked Puppy will outperform Dolphin when multiple threads are in use (Not WoW) and come close in most other cases.
Mix and match anything but the CPU/Motherboard combo between Puppy and Dolphin. Pick one of the two CPU/Motherboard combos.
Mix and match anything between Dolphin and Narwhal.
ComponentPuppy Dolphin
CaseNZXT GAMMA Classic - $40NZXT GAMMA Classic - $40
Power SupplyCorsair CX500 V2 - $54XFX Core Edition PRO 550W - $64
CPUAMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition- $110Intel i3-2120 - $122
HeatsinkCooler Master Hyper 212 Plus - $26Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $32
MotherboardASUS M5A97 AM3+ 970 - $95Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H - $120
Memory4GB PNY Optima DDR3 10600 - $258GB G.Skill DDR3 12800 - $55
Graphics CardXFX 7770 - $105XFX 6870 or EVGA GTX 560 - $137/ $146
Hard DriveWestern Digital Caviar Blue 500GB - $68Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB - $100
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $20Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $20

Narwhal and Unicorn
All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Narwhal and Unicorn. SSDs are always optional.
ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
CaseCooler Master HAF 912 - $60Cooler Master HAF932 - $154
Power SupplyCorsair 650TX V2 - $90Corsair 750HX - $156
CPUIntel i5-3570K - $220Intel i7-3770K - $330
HeatsinkThermaltake Frio - $60Noctua 6 NH-D14 - $85
MotherboardASUS P8Z77-V LK - $146ASUS P8Z77-V - $190
Memory8GB G.Skill DDR3 12800 - $568GB G.Skill DDR3 12800 - $56
Graphics CardASUS 7850 DirectCU II - $260XFX 7970 Black Edition OR EVGA GTX 670 FTW - $430 / $430
Hard DriveWestern Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $100Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $100
SSDCrucial 128 GB m4 (Review) - $105
Corsair Force Series GT 120 GB - $129
SAMSUNG 830 128GB (Review) - $99
OCZ 120 GB Vertex 3 (Review) - $95
DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $20Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $20
Total$1012 - $1141$1521 - $1620

The Daily Blink
The Daily Blink talks about the recent subscriber number releases.

How much do I not care? Last night I was looking for the remote control, and found 300,000 subscribers in the couch cushions.
by Published on 2012-08-04 05:44 AM

Update: It appears Accession (US-Stormreaver) was able to kill the Grand Empress Shek'zeer and confirm that a single Sigil of Wisdom dropped. The first person to loot the boss with the quest got it.

Also, don't forget that you could originally get Elementium Gem Cluster from LFR on the Patch 4.3 PTR, which turned out to be a bug. When introducing the Raid Finder, Blizzard said "Also, there are certain items, as well as components for legendary weapons, which will not drop in Raid Finder raids".

Diablo III Hotfixes for August 3rd - Rubberbanding

Legendary Questline Update
After meeting Wrathion and sharing a drink with him, he gives you a quest that requires you to collect Sigil of Power x 10 and Sigil of Wisdom x 10.

When LFR opened for testing tonight, we found that Sigil of Power drops from every boss 100% of the time. It appears as a quest objective in the tooltips for most bosses in Raid Finder difficulty, but drops from all of the bosses that have been killed so far.

Earlier today, we saw that Sigil of Wisdom appeared as a quest objective on Grand Empress Shek'zeer's tooltip in 25 Man Normal Difficulty Heart of Fear. Unfortunately, no one was able to kill her to confirm that it actually drops. Keep in mind that this is beta and things can change in the future and may not be working as intended.

Once 10 of each Sigil has been collected, Warthion sends you into the Terrace of Endless Spring to defeat the Sha of Fear. Before entering the Terrace of Endless Spring, you must have completed the Heart of Fear raid. Upon defeating the Sha of Fear you will loot a Chimera of Fear from him and bring it back to Wrathion.

When the items that you collected are combined, you will be able to choose from a Crystallized Dread, Crystallized Horror, or Crystallized Terror gem. These gems are unique equipped, and go into a Sha-Touched socket in the weapons below. These weapons drop from bosses in Terrace of the Endless Spring and the last boss of Heart of Fear.

Sha-Touched Weapons

Level Type Spec Slot Name Dropped From Dropped In
509Two-handed AxeMeleeTwo HandShin'ka, Execution of DominionSha of FearTerrace of Endless Spring
509GunPhysical DPSRangedTaoren, the Soul BurnerLei ShiTerrace of Endless Spring
509One-handed SwordMeleeOne HandKilrak, Jaws of TerrorSha of FearTerrace of Endless Spring
509One-handed SwordSpell DPSOne HandLoshan, Terror IncarnateTsulongTerrace of Endless Spring
509StaffPhysical DPSTwo HandGao-Rei, Staff of the Legendary ProtectorTsulongTerrace of Endless Spring
509StaffSpell DPSTwo HandJin'ya, Orb of the WaterspeakerLei ShiTerrace of Endless Spring
509DaggerPhysical DPSOne HandSpiritseverLei ShiTerrace of Endless Spring
509One-handed MaceSpell DPSMain HandKri'tak, Imperial Scepter of the SwarmGrand Empress Shek'zeerHeart of Fear
509Fist WeaponPhysical DPSOne HandClaws of Shek'zeerGrand Empress Shek'zeerHeart of Fear
Level Type Spec Slot Name Dropped From Dropped In
496Two-handed AxeMeleeTwo HandShin'ka, Execution of DominionSha of FearTerrace of Endless Spring
496GunPhysical DPSRangedTaoren, the Soul BurnerLei ShiTerrace of Endless Spring
496One-handed SwordMeleeOne HandKilrak, Jaws of TerrorSha of FearTerrace of Endless Spring
496One-handed SwordSpell DPSOne HandLoshan, Terror IncarnateTsulongTerrace of Endless Spring
496StaffPhysical DPSTwo HandGao-Rei, Staff of the Legendary ProtectorTsulongTerrace of Endless Spring
496StaffSpell DPSTwo HandJin'ya, Orb of the WaterspeakerLei ShiTerrace of Endless Spring
496DaggerPhysical DPSOne HandSpiritseverLei ShiTerrace of Endless Spring
496One-handed MaceSpell DPSMain HandKri'tak, Imperial Scepter of the SwarmGrand Empress Shek'zeerHeart of Fear
496Fist WeaponPhysical DPSOne HandClaws of Shek'zeerGrand Empress Shek'zeerHeart of Fear
Level Type Spec Slot Name Dropped From Dropped In
483Two-handed AxeMeleeTwo HandShin'ka, Execution of DominionSha of FearTerrace of Endless Spring
483GunPhysical DPSRangedTaoren, the Soul BurnerLei ShiTerrace of Endless Spring
483One-handed SwordMeleeOne HandKilrak, Jaws of TerrorSha of FearTerrace of Endless Spring
483One-handed SwordSpell DPSOne HandLoshan, Terror IncarnateTsulongTerrace of Endless Spring
483StaffPhysical DPSTwo HandGao-Rei, Staff of the Legendary ProtectorTsulongTerrace of Endless Spring
483StaffSpell DPSTwo HandJin'ya, Orb of the WaterspeakerLei ShiTerrace of Endless Spring
483DaggerPhysical DPSOne HandSpiritseverLei ShiTerrace of Endless Spring
483One-handed MaceSpell DPSMain HandKri'tak, Imperial Scepter of the SwarmGrand Empress Shek'zeerHeart of Fear
483Fist WeaponPhysical DPSOne HandClaws of Shek'zeerGrand Empress Shek'zeerHeart of Fear

Don't forget that this is only part of the questline, as it continues when war comes to Pandaria in Patch 5.1! There are also achievements that hint at the questline continuing in patches that come after 5.1. We also haven't seen a source confirmed yet for Breath of the Black Prince or the legendary icons below.

Icon Name Icon Name Icon Name Icon Name
Legendary Axe Legendary Fist Weapon Legendary Gun Legendary Knife
Legendary Mace Legendary Shield Legendary Staff Legendary Sword

Name Side Points Reward Category
Chapter I: Trial of the Black Prince
Prove your worth to Wrathion and acquire a sha-touched gem upgrade.


Chapter II: Wrathion's War
[Coming in Patch 5.1...]


Chapter III: Two Princes
[Coming Soon...]


Chapter IV: Judgement of the Black Prince
[Coming Soon...]



New Character Creation Preview Gear
This build finally finished adding the last of the new character creation gear used in the preview. This is not the gear that your character will get when starting the game, but the gear that is used to show you what a higher level character will look like. Keep in mind that this is beta and things can always change!

Beta Class Balance Analysis
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Pretty much this...for some reason devs think most progression guilds are quite happy to bring an underperforming player to a progression fight (Obviously none of them are in progression oriented guilds).
Actually, several designers have been farming Heroic Madness of Deathwing (some on 25, some on 10), for over 6 months. Some of them are in very performance-intensive guilds too, that definitely adjust raid comp based on individual performance above all else. In any event, you don't make a stronger case for yourself by arguing that the designers must lack your experience. And, as has been stated multiple times, this thread is for discussing numbers and mechanics, not making anecdotal accusations.

The point is this: Would your raiding developers ever bring the MoP Affliction Warlock to a unnerfed Heroic Spine-like fight? Desto and Affliction locks did not have competitive burst. Demo lock was there as the buff bot and actually did pretty decent damage as long as the lifts were no often than every 2 minutes.

Current Affliction damage is fairly stable until execute, with no real spikes or troughs. We still cannot bring competitive burst, unless my sims are incorrect. We will be sat for these encounters or respec, just like we were in Cata. Oh and we will be sat for AoE fights as well since things will be dead before we even get going. Spine left some pretty deep scars I must admit.

Heroic Spine is an extremely skewing fight, as it forced you to value 20-second burst damage every 1:30 to 2:00 over just about everything else. It’s no surprise when that does unfortunate things to class/spec balance. We try to balance different specs to do similar sustained damage, but allow them to have different strengths and weaknesses, such as burst potential. One of the class designers (who also happens to be a raid leader in a 25-player raid progression guild) says that if there were a similar encounter in Mists of Pandaria, he would definitely ask his warlocks to switch to Destruction, given that Destruction’s potential 20-second burst is incredibly high. Warlocks would definitely not be sat in that situation.

It seems that Halo and Divine Star have a DR now... is it at "beyond 6", similar to Sanct/Healing Rain?
Yes; we recently did a pass on making sure that new AoEs were appropriately following our standard AoE capping rules (10 targets for damage, 6 targets for heals). There were a number of Monk AoEs and a few other class level 90 talents affected, I believe.

Death Knight (Forums)
In the current beta build when an unholy death knight uses blood boil (speced into Rolling Blood), blood runes don't turn into death runes (Reaping effect). Just an obvious bug which we can hopefully see fixed in a later build.
Fixed for the next build.

Hunter (Forums)
After some discussion with a fellow hunter, I have been questioning the worth of Focus Fire. In its current state, it seems that casting Focus Fire could actually result in a net DPS loss, based on information gained using Zeherah's sim and personal observations.
We did notice this and have buffed it a bit, but that change didn’t make the build you’re just now getting. I believe the amount of haste it grants your character went up to 6% and we might need to increase it further. It should be a significant DPS increase, not just break even.

Hunter level 90 talents (glaive shot, etc.) appear not to be triggering Marksman mastery. Is that intended?

Murder of crows benefits from BM mastery, but Dire Beast does not. What's the intent here (e.g., presumably Lynx Rush benefits from it)?

The Hunter level 90 talents should trigger Wild Quiver, with the exception that Barrage has 1/6th the normal proc rate (so that it isn’t overwhelmingly dominant for Marksmanship).

The next build will include a new version of Murder of Crows. It’s mostly a mechanic and visual change; the damage should remain roughly the same, including being affected by Master of Beasts. Dire Beast will also be affected by Master of Beasts in the next build (so that the entire talent row is consistently affected by it).

Paladin (Forums)
Latest finds from doing hitting dummies for an hour.
  • Judgment can be dodge/parried from 30 yds away
  • Hammer of the Righteous is really bugged.
  • Nova is doing only 1-2 damage at several AP levels
  • It really only hits for 0 yds.
These are simple bugs, and are fixed for the next build. Also, a clarification on the previous update about Judgment and its interaction with seals: Seal of Truth will affect Judgment (both damage and Censure application). The other seals will not.

Warlock (Forums)
Another bug which may confuse Affliction warlocks in the current beta build is Malefic Grasp’s interaction with spell haste. It is appropriately getting its period reduced by haste, but the channel bar is incorrectly still 4 seconds long. The debuff it applies is the accurate duration. It should not gain additional ticks with additional haste. The channel bar will be fixed in the next build.

Sorry but I am confused. Can you please explain this a little better? Are you saying that the MG ticks benefit from haste but the extra dot damage is still every 1 second? Or are you saying something else?
No, the extra DoT ticks are directly tied to the MG damage ticks. The bug is simply that the channel bar UI is not being affected by haste. The gameplay functionality is correct.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
World Boss Availability
I understand that Mogushan Vaults is going to be out a week after the xpac drops, but what about the 2 world bosses? Will those be spawning and killable the week of the xpac?
Yes, world bosses will be available on day 1. Oh, the days of trying to down Azuregos. September 25 is going to be epic! (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Teleports Rewarded by Gold Medal Challenge Modes
They share a cooldown with each other, but not with the hearthstone or other player spells like shaman Astral Recall or mage Teleport. Whenever you complete a challenge mode, this shared cooldown is reset. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

LFR Rewards and Difficulty
While LFR difficulty requires less coordination and organization than normal raids, it still generally takes more effort than completing a heroic. Therefore, shouldn't the rewards be greater?

Also, I think people generally like the normal dungeon>heroic>LFR>normal raid setup. Removing a step would give people less diversity. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Content Difficulty and Consumption Speed
As my son (Lambey) pointed out a number of times, releasing LFR this early into a patch means content gets done on week 2 its out.
personally me AND my son feel the schedule needs to be adjusted to the following:

September 25: MoP launches
October 2: Mogu'shan Vaults (normal) opens
October 7: those who cleared normal Vaults can access heroic mode
October 30: Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Spring (normal) open, with Terrace only accessible by clearing Heart. LFR difficulty for Mogu'shan Vaults opens.
November 6: Those who cleared normal Heart can access heroic Heart, same for Terrace.
November 27: Lfr for Heart Opens.
December 11: Lfr for Terrace Opens.

This means that even a month later, the content has NOT been burnt out by the casual gamers. it also allows raiders to feel somewhat superior as they are seeing content others arent, while also providing incentive for players to at least TRY normal mode raids!

If others want to try and burn the content in two weeks through LFR. How is your gaming experience diminished by it? I can't honestly understand what's the big deal on people that isn't you doing something that you don't want to do. I mean, what could you possibly do when someone that is not you storms Mogu'shan Vaults on the LFR...

it also allows raiders to feel somewhat superior as they are seeing content others arent
Perhaps we should just tell the devs that we should close all raids until the Top 10 guilds clear them on heroic, so that they can feel superior to everyone else as they are seeing content that you, the raiders not-as-good-as-them aren't seeing. Does it make sense?

Again you come back to a frankly stupid and absurd statement about locking content till the top 10 guilds kill it....I mean why do you have such a problem with players doing stuff that others cannot?
Do you mean that the argument of locking "casuals" from LFR so that raiders can feel superior because they aren't doing that content is fine, but that same example applied in a higher level is wrong? Both situations are the same, just applied at a different scale.

I don't have a problem with players doing stuff that others cannot, I have a problem with proclaiming that locking others so someone can feel superior is a good thing (and regardless, what I may have problems with is irrelevant to this discussion, is not me who decides what's wrong and what's not).

Have you never looked at a player in full gear beyond your skill levels or content and thought wow I want to look like that someday.
No, never. Back in the old days I remember looking at a T1 geared player, and my reaction was something along the lines of "that armor is cool, I wonder how long it'll take me before getting to reach the place where I can get that". And the only reason that particular player caught my attention was because he was playing the same class than me.

For a lot of people clearing things on a higher difficulty is not content.
The developers consider the Normal-Heroic transition to be part of the raiding progression. Of course, it's your choice to decide if you want to go and deal with Heroic content or not.

What most are advocating in this thread is not to remove content from casuals, it’s to ensure that their content lasts longer and that they will learn and become better from their gaming experience.
I'm quite sure that the "casuals" can handle themselves in what they want and how they want it, and they don't need parenting from "hardcore" players. And what I mean is, the goal, probably, is having fun, right?

If that's the goal, then it's probably best to worry about how you can have fun yourself, and point out the flaws there, point out what doesn't let you have fun, without factoring in what other players do. That's something we can send to the developers. But judging how others should have fun is certainly not going to get us anywhere.

But parently by nerfing is different somehow?
The debuff is a design decission made by the developers based on the data they have. In the other hand, the players that say how the game should be for others only have their opinion. And opinions are great, as long as you don't try to turn them into facts.

Loads of people are trying here, including me, but somehow you seem hellbent on telling me that I play for gear, status and titles.
That you're playing for gear, status and titles is not a bad thing (if that is your case), the issue comes from saying that the only way those things are worth it is preventing others from getting it.

I'm not having fun by the highest tier of raiding being watered down. I'm telling you, since you are our relay to the devs and designers. Please take note of it, since your arguements are based on some kind of assumpion of pride, while it really isn't. In fact, that shows only your personal view of the matter. Take one step back and look at it more objectively.
Hopefully the Cutting Edge FoS will give a reason to you and your guildmates (if they don't share that view with you) to go and tackle the content without any debuffs.

We post because we care (I hope). Just look at how (relatively) civil this 200 page thread still is. People take it serious. Perhaps you should to. Think. Reread, and only then post.
I take it seriously, otherwise I wouldn't be posting here anymore. Actually, from this thread we've gathered useful feedback, and questions, that were forwarded to the developers.

One thing, just as an example, was that some players here pointed out they feel the Power of the Aspects kicked in too early for them. The developers are happy with the point in time at which it was introduced. The timing of each increment of the debuff is completely driven by data. When they see participation and progress declining across the board because of "brick walls" on some bosses, they introduce the nerf to encourage those players to come back and keep trying. And every time they've done it they've seen the participation in Dragon Soul increase exponentially in comparison to previous weeks.

So, with that in mind, it might be an aswer you like or one you don't. But, it is an answer (along with others we've shared) that came due to threads like this (and, as you remarked, its mostly civil tone). (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Tabard Reputation Rewards
The point is some people like how their character looks, and gaining rep with x factions forces you to wear different tabards you might not like (if you choose to gain rep via dungeons).
Just as an update, we're going to change the whole tabard system with MoP, so this shouldn't be an issue any longer.
We're fixing this in Mists of Pandaria by removing the whole concept of tabards providing reputation bonuses.

Of course we're still in beta and things can always change... (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Spells in PvE vs PvP
I think some of you are making big assumptions about how the spell data work. I realize that the mechanics behind our data can quite obtuse, but you'll just have to trust me that having two sets of numbers is just more risk than one. It is a risk worth taking sometimes, but it is a risk. Set bonuses, talents, tooltips, basically everything that can modify a spell need to modify two spells instead. There are opportunities for bugs to creep in, and long term players know how many strange bugs or quirks show up in character spells already.

(Armchair programmers at thIs point can argue how our data structure *should* be set up, but you'll also just have to trust me that it's probably a more complex problem than you give it credit for.)

In any case, I'm also not convinced at all that even if we could easily manage two different sets of numbers that it would really solve the problem. I think sometimes in players' minds, they say "Man, I just can't kill anyone in PvP. It is a truth universally acknowledged that my dude's PvP damage is too low, but Blizzard can't buff it because I do well in PvE." The shortcoming in that logic of course is that the truth is rarely universally acknowledged, and in the case of PvP there aren't even logs or target dummies to look at. In some cases your damage is just fine and it's not the game rules holding you back. In some cases you lost not because the deck was stacked against you, but because you got outplayed.

I'm not saying there aren't PvP balance issues. There are and there may always be. But I also don't think players would suddenly become much more objective about their own personal skill just because we adjusted more numbers independently. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Class Changes Discussion
I know it may come as a shock, but this forum is not our sole conduit though which to monitor player feedback. The twin strategies of "shh, don't admit we're overpowered" and "shh, don't let them know we're happy" are about as transparent as you would imagine. I would suggest leaving the psychological warfare at home and just be honest about how you feel (and as I said above, backing it up with evidence of some kind is vastly more helpful to us).

We had just been discussing whether it would be better to warn players that some nerfs were coming and let them worry themselves to death, or to just make the changes and have players be surprised. Conveniently, this thread came along.... (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Warrior (Forums)
New Enrage Graphic
It was an experiment. We're not crazy about it and the player response has been negative overall, so we're going to revert it. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Pet Battle Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Weakened by Capture
We have made a few adjustments to the both the weakened by capture pets and the overall XP curve. Details below!

  • Catching any pet level 15 or under retains its current level.
  • Catching a level 16-20 pet will lose 1 level.
  • Catching a level 21-25 pet will lose 2 levels.
  • We have dramatically reduced the XP required to level for pets after level 10.

Thanks for all of your feedback on this stuff guys. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Healing Pets is Getting Old
We have reduced the cool down to 10m in the next build. Don't forget you can get single use heals in the Sack of Pet Supplies from the Tamer dailies as an alternative to using the Stable Master or your Revive spell. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Northrend Tamer
When can we expect this achievement to be fixed? as it stands right now, there are still no battle pets in Crystalsong Forest so this achievement is currently unobtainable.
Good catch! This is fixed in the next build. Thanks for the report. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Microscopic crabs.
Is there a specific reason as to why every wild crab that I run into is almost microscopic? I wouldn't mind capturing one, but I would at least like to see the pet that I'm using.
This is fixed in the next build. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Revive Battle Pets Exploit?
This is a good thread, here are a few of our thoughts:

Healing pets to full after every battle is not a change we are interested in making. We want to encourage players to not only win a battle, but to win by taking the least amount of damage or by using pet heals in a smart way. Attrition is a driving part of the gameplay and it won't be going away anytime soon. We do have tunable factors that we will continue to watch though. (Battle Recovery, Revive spell cooldown & pet bandages)

In regards to the Revive Pets spell, we have just reduced the cooldown to 10m for the next build. (Down from 15m) We will keep a close eye on the feedback and continue to monitor how often players are using the Stable Master to heal. The Stable Master should be a fallback, not a requirement. We know the pet bandages are a bit too sparse right now too, we are going to amp that up as well to help fill in the gaps.

Finally, the cool-up's that we added to the heal spells (both the player and stable master) are to deal with exploit cases of players using multiple characters/accounts to avoid cooldowns. We used 3 minutes as a baseline since most players can fly to one in that amount of time from pretty much anywhere on a full speed mount.

Thanks for all the feedback, we are listening! (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Curse Weekly Roundup
Pico is back with the Curse Weekly Round Up. She covers Dragons Dogma, SWTOR going free to play, Battlefield, EA, Mists of Pandaria, Minecraft, and our indie highlight Awesomenauts

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