To the ground, baby. To the ground.

I must admit this is the first QQ-thread that make me feel the urge to register to MMO.
Probably there were worst cases in the past, but on the other hand I started playing arena seriously just from a few weeks, so I feel pretty involved, here.

I actually play all PvP situations everyday in WotLK: Arenas, BGs, outdoor fights and Wintergrasp.
I can pretty say that of all classes Blizzard created, Pally is the most ANNOYING in PvP ever meant to exist, now as now.
I won't repeat what everybody said and know: Paladin has 3 lives, in any of their specs.
They loses one every 15-20 minutes, and another for around 5 minute when popping bubble.

Paladins are hated cause everybody when fighting them thinks the same thing: "Unfair".
It's Unfair to remove every kind of debuff existant in the game for 12 secs, refill yourself, and when finished just start to DPS back on a target with damage just halved for the remaining. You can stun, too, during that time. Heal others without being CCed, interrupted, stunned. Nothing.
Bubble is renewed as the most unfair spell in WoW, and even so they never - NEVER - even considered to nerf it A LITTLE cause they know a lot of childish player would cry out so much to make next Blizzcon a swimming pool.

There it comes: LoH.
Why do you complain SO MUCH? I mean, everybody knows you are the unfairer class in the game, and you have inside yourself the two mostly unfair spells... So why all this crying for just a small nerf on it?
A nerf istantly reverted (which made me smile, remembering when the same thing happened with Istant Scare Beast on Druid's QQ), plusover.
Or are you seriously stating that being pinged up full in a regular 1v1 after having 12 secs of total invulnerability is FAIR?
Are you pointing against Shaman's Reincarnate? Yes, it's true, we (I'm a Shaman, right) have a second life for real. But we get up manaless and lifeless: just being careful you can shot back us in a split second.
This isn't the same, really. Look closely, it isn't the same!

Ghostcrawler said: "Over time however they have contributed into making the paladin into a "one-man army," able to play offensively, defensively and heal without say the stance changing or shapeshifting or sometimes event talent specialization required of other classes."

Do you realize how overpowered you are?
Do you realize that problem here isn't if LoH need to be nerfed or not... Problem is that you whole need to be heavly nerfed in tons of aspect of your actual PvP gameplay?
A paladin stated here that removing SS is just like removing Last Stand on Warriors. Do you actually know that Warriors PvP can't take Last Stand in their build?
SS shouldn't be nerfed... It should be REMOVED, cause you can't seriously think an auto-casted barrier on a plate (with shield, in healer's case) is BALANCED.
And you should never dare to point your fingers against Warriors: they waste all their hard-generated rage against lots af Absorbs, while you bypass their armor with your holy-crap-melee-spells.
It's like having an Earth Shield with 8 charges in all your specs, and possessing a reincarnate that ping you up full instead that dying while at the same time being able to cast a PW:S with infinite absorption power that cleanse any number of curses, poisons, diseases and magics have been cast upon you. And you can do that while stunned and silenced too!!!

You say LoH is strong "just" on 1v1? Aside from the fact that it isn't true (you can easly shot down two enemies in a road-fight 1v2 using all your CDs), why should 1v1 be irrelevant in judging PvP balance? Why should the fact that a warrior or a rogue don't have the slightest chance to win against you in a regular face-to-face match be unchecked and ignored?

You have the most unfair, faceroll and cheated class in the game, so putting PvE-tanking aside for a moment (I would have some to say against that, too, but no bother now), why wouldn't you need a heavy nerf in every PvP spec?
Why is Blizzard gifting Frostwyrms to underskilled players?
Under what perspective you see that or any of the thing I pointed up above is... Fair?

okok.. The LoH thing was a bit frightening as it has saved me from terribad healers and hard hitting bosses when the raid is taking a bitch amount of dmg and healers focus on them and forget about their tank ( it happens.. ) .. ok it was reverted so no need to keep crying about it..(you'd think people would read a little of the thread before jumping to QQ time)...


but...seriously....



Shaman Tier 10? ? 

Gah, hating these changes as a pve prot paladin..
It's stupid how Blizz was saying that tankadins could use some more cooldowns, and now they're taking the best one.
LoH has really saved my raidgroup tons of times, would suck so much if these changes would go live.

Let's hope Blizz realizes that they're nerfing pve too much for yet another pvp fix, gets really annoying.. If they'd just make it that you can't use it in pvp the problem would be solved.

/qqmoar

Better late than never, no more Absorb spamm on SCT at last, a big **** you prot paladins, overpowered PoS.

Three cheers for Blizzard!

From Ghostcrawler:

As you can see, we are trying some different things with some paladin mechanics.

The Aura Mastery change (to 6 sec duration) is one we think is appropriate. If I had to guess, this one will stick.

We are trying some things with Sacred Shield to make it more of a Holy tool and less useful for Ret and Prot (without being totally irrelevant). I don't have a lot of faith that the implementation on the PTR is the one we'll go with for a couple of reasons, but our overall goal is to make Ret less tanky and the Holy tree feel like it's the right one to focus on for healing. I would expect a Sacred Shield change of some kind though.

I wouldn't worry too much on the Lay on Hands change at this point. I don't want to promise we won't change the spell for 3.3, but our intent was to revert the others only change before it went out to the PTR, which is why we didn't patch note it. We have already changed it back on our local builds.

The paladin class isn't just supposed to be for support anymore, but at the same time, the original intent for many paladin abilities was to help the group. Over time however they have contributed into making the paladin into a "one-man army," able to play offensively, defensively and heal without say the stance changing or shapeshifting or sometimes event talent specialization required of other classes. Many of the LK balance problems we've had with the class are because of that core issue.

With that said, we're just not sure a Lay on Hands change really accomplishes much from a balance perspective, while it feels bad to lose such an iconic ability. We just don't think the bang for the buck is there on this change, which is why we reverted it. But I'm not going to promise we won't touch it.

In fact, I'm not going to promise anything with this post. Please don't dredge it up later to try and argue against any upcoming changes. I'm just trying to clear up some confusion.

Too bad Taekrys.  Go post your 10 page long manifesto somewhere else about how you suck at killing pallies.

What does Arena have to do with this? as stated before No LoH in arena. Bubble is also dispellable and can be broken by warriors.

Wrong Ret paladins are hated because they can easy kill any class with little or no effort. e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhtxdmjUOQM

Bubble is and always has been a Paladin specific move just like Self rez for shammans battle rez for Druids, stealth for rogues.. everyone has their own specific spells, thats what makes them that class... other wise we would all be grey blobs that do 1 damage per second.. and we have 10 health.. 0% crit chance. 0% damage reduction.. wow.. sounds fun doesnt it?

Small nerf? It's ment to be a nerf on Ret paladins, which idd is fair enough. But it has nerfd the whole Paladin class, Protection tanks quite often use Lay on Hands as a life saver if the **** hits the fan, now, it's just a wipe.

1v1 has never been fair and never will be, that's the point, ever class has an anti class. deal with it.

I fail to see your point? Of course it's not the same.. if it was.. You'd be a frikking paladin!

Umm yeah we know how Over Powered Ret Paladins are, but every class has a moment of Overpowerdness and they just use it to their advantage as long as possible before it gets nerfed.

Ahh i see, you've had a lot of trouble taking out Paladins because you don't know how to play so you blame the whole class and ask for them to be removed.

False Bubble is not available during silences... and also QQ MOAR PLOX

1v1 will always be irralevant in PVP because it's not balance, everyclass has an anti class or at least a class that is harder to beat than others. If a warrior and rogue cannot beat 1 ret Pala in pvp then shame on them.
2v2 is also not balanced in Arena/PVP terms aswell btw. that's why they aren't shown at competitions, because that's not the base of balanced PVP. 3v3 is the middle ground.

Your assuming that EVERY paladin who PVP's is ret.. i don't mean like all Paladins.. i mean like 100 fuking % of Paladins are ret in PVP... which is FALSE. When i play my Paladin i play Prot or Holy, so why do we get nerfed? please do tell.