[Priest] State of Discipline - 4.0.6

[Deleted]

Before 4.0.6., disc priest was getting awesome numbers in healing metters (or at least, I was getting them) while lots of whiners were saying in all forums that disc spec was broken :O . Now, this forum is full of prophets of disaster while i'm still getting awesome numbers. Have fun with Holy Spec. I stay at Disc

Sry but thats just a lie.
And if you got awesome numbers ANY other healer with the same skill would have been WAY better than you as disc.

The same logs you use now to prove PW:S was OP cleary showed that disc was subpar to all other healing specs by a huge margain.
Which was the reason disc got buffed .......

[Deleted]

Saying you're getting awesome numbers without proof of any kind is just air.
But sure, keep exaggerating.

Regarding the healing metters, everyone says disc spec is broken and it's ok. But I say i get cool numbers and I must show proofs. Mb you should show us your bad numbers while healing as disc. But this could prove disc spec is broken or this could prove you're a bad healer...

[Southern]

Sry but thats just a lie.
And if you got awesome numbers ANY other healer with the same skill would have been WAY better than you as disc.

The same logs you use now to prove PW:S was OP cleary showed that disc was subpar to all other healing specs by a huge margain.
Which was the reason disc got buffed .......

In a way this is both true and untrue. In my guild pre-disc buff, I did disc in 10man and we only succeeded those bosses because of that. May be the other healers sucked, but I haven't seen really good impressions of disc pre-patch because raids didn't bother taking them anyway so there never was a decent overall evaluation, and it was a very big shock for other healers to suddenly see disc at the top, after never bothering to invite them in.

I still say that if disc was played well pre-patch, you could do decent things and it proved a good pressure relief for the other healers and perhaps that is where disc should be, but I think it was hard to raid and relearn how to do it right and with guilds not having patience with that kind of thing, it was easier to just drop the disc and take a holy instead.

I think as one poster said, Blizz are losing the plot on buffing. Not a chance did disc need such a huge buff, and yes we do suffer less with mana issues in raids compared to other healers but a 33% mana cost increase is a - dare I say it - dumb method of balancing. Come on blizz, surely you have more intelligent people working there? May be a mage can give them an intellect buff or something....

[[-Spiritus-]]

The simplest solution they could've just down was nerf the absorption of Power Word: Shield, but have the absorption slightly better than 4.0.6.

Blizzard never knows how to balance accordingly.

While I agree that the increase in mana cost is a bandaid, making a slight adjustment to the throughput of PW:S doesn't fix the issue they wished to address, which was that:

While we wanted Discipline priests to be able to utilize this spell more often and with better results, we also did not want it to be the main spell (and often the only spell) used while in groups. We don't find this to be a particularly compelling playstyle [...]

Christ, I know I've heard this from somewhere...

[Deleted]

I really dislike playing Disc however having Barriers for Both blackouts on Valiona and Theralion is really helpful. During the endless wipes spent on the fight I have kinda gotta used to the spec, though I have been just a "bubble bot" mostly. Even with my limited experience as disc, it doesn't take a genius to understand what is wrong with the spec.

Here's what I felt (I'm sure these have been suggested before):

Penance needs a good buffing. Right now it just tickles. Either a HPS increase or a cooldown reduction would be nice.

Reduce the absorb from [Power word: Skill] by (for example) 35% of it's CURRENT value. Leave the cost the same as it already is.

Those are the main issues but I feel changes could also be made to grace's duration and increase the mana return from archangel maybe.

Obviously not all my suggestions may work but I KNEW disc would not stay the way it is. The problem is Blizz keep giving and taking without taking into account other abilities or talents.

No idea how disc is going to operate after these fixes but something tells me I'm still gonna be called in for the barrier. :/

[Memoryz]

While I agree that the increase in mana cost is a bandaid, making a slight adjustment to the throughput of PW:S doesn't fix the issue they wished to address, which was that:

"While we wanted Discipline priests to be able to utilize this psell more often and with better results, we also did not want it to be the main spell (and often the only spell) used while in groups. We don't find this to be a particularly compelling playstyle [...]."

Christ, I know I've heard this from somewhere...

I know what your goals were, but everyone complaints aren't going to lead to where you want them to be, in fact, it'll just make it worse.

In the end, these nerfs are just going to make shield only used for rapture procs, and you'll just be back to prayer of healing.
The problem with discipline is the tree is so based around one spell: Power Word: Shield. If they want to make it multi-functional, they're just gonna have to overhaul the tree and mold it to make a more appealing and compelling playstyle.

---------- Post added 2011-02-16 at 06:16 PM ----------

I really dislike playing Disc however having Barriers for Both blackouts on Valiona and Theralion is really helpful. During the endless wipes spent on the fight I have kinda gotta used to the spec, though I have been just a "bubble bot" mostly. Even with my limited experience as disc, it doesn't take a genius to understand what is wrong with the spec.

Here's what I felt (I'm sure these have been suggested before):

Penance needs a good buffing. Right now it just tickles. Either a HPS increase or a cooldown reduction would be nice.

Reduce the absorb from [Power word: Skill] by (for example) 35% of it's CURRENT value. Leave the cost the same as it already is.

Those are the main issues but I feel changes could also be made to grace's duration and increase the mana return from archangel maybe.

Obviously not all my suggestions may work but I KNEW disc would not stay the way it is. The problem is Blizz keep giving and taking without taking into account other abilities or talents.

No idea how disc is going to operate after these fixes but something tells me I'm still gonna be called in for the barrier. :/

So basically, you want shields to be even less powerful than they were pre-4.0.6, and cost more mana than before.
Penance could use a slight buff.

Blizzard nerfs one thing without compensating in other ways to maintain good HPS.

[Kelesti]

The problem with discipline is the tree is so based around one spell: Power Word: Shield.

Which is funny, because I thought Penance was the spell they gave Discipline at 10.

And then you look at Twin Disciplines, Renewed Hope, Grace, Inner Focus, Train of Thought, Divine Aegis, not to mention the cooldowns. But of course, the tree is "one button spam" because you feel it is.

I may be coming off as a bit trollish here, but the argument's been made for the past 3 years now, and the talents that affect healing still outnumber the talents that buff your shield's output/sustainability. Shield being the "signature spell" and "OMG what else can I push now" is a state of mind that the person puts themself into, not the spec. Part of that is enforced by the state that the game was in, but the point still remains that the tree is more than bubblespam.

[Deleted]

Sry but thats just a lie.
And if you got awesome numbers ANY other healer with the same skill would have been WAY better than you as disc.

The same logs you use now to prove PW:S was OP cleary showed that disc was subpar to all other healing specs by a huge margain.
Which was the reason disc got buffed .......

This isn't a lie. And if you take a look at older threads debating about disc vs holy specs, lots of raiders who had already done some hard modes some weeks ago said, except in particular bosses, holy and disc specs were getting similar numbers.

Sorry, I don't understand your 2nd argument. Could you explain it, please?
I didn't need any log to prove PW:S was op. The simple fact that spamming them was the common playstyle in 4.0.6. proofs it.

Pennance is not only a Healing spell. You think Pennance is just a disc version of Greater Heal. What Pennance is, besides the healing spell, is a fast tool to stack Grace x3. Your next GH will rock. And now that we can stack it at different targets at the same time, we become an outstanding tankS healer.

[Memoryz]

Which is funny, because I thought Penance was the spell they gave Discipline at 10.

And then you look at Twin Disciplines, Renewed Hope, Grace, Inner Focus, Train of Thought, Divine Aegis, not to mention the cooldowns. But of course, the tree is "one button spam" because you feel it is.

I may be coming off as a bit trollish here, but the argument's been made for the past 3 years now, and the talents that affect healing still outnumber the talents that buff your shield's output/sustainability. Shield being the "signature spell" and "OMG what else can I push now" is a state of mind that the person puts themself into, not the spec. Part of that is enforced by the state that the game was in, but the point still remains that the tree is more than bubblespam.

Your response is rather trollish considering your factoring that if a talent for a spell exists in your tree, that it should be efficient. I don't want shield to be the only spell I push, but the spell I push before raid damage occurs so I can make use of prayer of healing to top people off. Talents like train of thought were never good sounding to begin with, not sure why it was ever developed into the tree. Now you're can't even pre-shield. You only use shield for rapture, and now what do we have? Lackluster prayer of healing for raid damage. But hey, at least we have semi-decent tank healing now, right?

[harky]

Discipline was strong and competitive in 4.0.3 as a raid healer. Holy was slightly better, but not a whole lot. Discipline was brought due to utility with PW:B/PS as well as a few gimmicks. Disc was then buffed in 4.0.6 across the board while most other healers were either nerfed slightly, or left roughly the same. Disc is not being reduced to what they were at in 4.0.3, but simply having one buff toned down.

Let's take Magmaw. Top for different specs before 4.0.6:

Disc - 13-14k
Holy - 15-16k
Paladin - 13-14k
Druid - 14-15k
Shaman - 11-12k

Holy may be too high. Druid, Disc and Paladin are about average. Shaman may be too low.

Now how about after 4.0.6?

Disc - 19-20k
Holy - 15-16k
Paladin - 14-15k
Druid - 14-15k
Shaman - 12-13k

What does this show us? Blizz thought Holy was fine and left it at about the same healing. Paladin stayed about the same. Druid stayed about the same. Shaman didn't go up far enough. Hotfix going in to increase healing. Disc went up much too far. Hotfix going in to reduce healing.

You should have been expecting this. It's boring and too effective. PW:S pre-hotfix was stronger when spammed than it was in ICC. That is exactly what Blizz did not want.

And no, it wasn't 'the top 3%' doing it. It's everyone who was paying attention. The high end players are the ones posting the really big numbers, but that isn't the issue. It wasn't just massive healing. It was efficient. PW:S had HPM similar to Heal and the same old gimmick with the lack of over-healing. Blizzard threw a bandaid on it that makes it less efficient, but in a tier or two that won't matter and they'll have to fix it again. The hotfix announcement is the only reason I didn't step down from raiding on my priest. After a few raid nights of going back to ICC-style healing I didn't want to play the class anymore. This is a case where I'm happy my class got nerfed.

[Deleted]

Which is funny, because I thought Penance was the spell they gave Discipline at 10.

And then you look at Twin Disciplines, Renewed Hope, Grace, Inner Focus, Train of Thought, Divine Aegis, not to mention the cooldowns. But of course, the tree is "one button spam" because you feel it is.

I may be coming off as a bit trollish here, but the argument's been made for the past 3 years now, and the talents that affect healing still outnumber the talents that buff your shield's output/sustainability. Shield being the "signature spell" and "OMG what else can I push now" is a state of mind that the person puts themself into, not the spec. Part of that is enforced by the state that the game was in, but the point still remains that the tree is more than bubblespam.

Show us ONE specc in all of WOW which uses so many of the trees points for ONE pretty lackluster spell......

---------- Post added 2011-02-17 at 12:34 AM ----------

This isn't a lie. And if you take a look at older threads debating about disc vs holy specs, lots of raiders who had already done some hard modes some weeks ago said, except in particular bosses, holy and disc specs were getting similar numbers.

Sorry, I don't understand your 2nd argument. Could you explain it, please?
I didn't need any log to prove PW:S was op. The simple fact that spamming them was the common playstyle in 4.0.6. proofs it.

Pennance is not only a Healing spell. You think Pennance is just a disc version of Greater Heal. What Pennance is, besides the healing spell, is a fast tool to stack Grace x3. Your next GH will rock. And now that we can stack it at different targets at the same time, we become an outstanding tankS healer.

What you say is... Blizzard knows what they do ......
Disc was ok BEFORE the patch and they buffed disc despite is was ok and now they nerfed it again ?.....................

Oh well mabye once your guild forces you to spec holy because you suck at disc again you will understand what we mean......

[-Ethos-]

Part of that is enforced by the state that the game was in, but the point still remains that the tree is more than bubblespam.

The problem is that Blizzard are so incapable of finding the place where they want Discipline to be.

For raid healing Discipline has no reactive healing ability without spamming Prayer of Healing which is no different from the Holy playstyle and prior to the nerf was amazingly effective. After the nerf to Prayer of Healing we were pidgeonholed back into PWS spam which is (was) even more effective.

For both rapid and sustained single target/Tank/Assist healing, Discipline is amazing. Considering Blizzard dont want there to be any "niche Healers" anymore, they just need to think of a way to find and balance a raid healing style.

This change isnt fixing anything, this is sweeping the problem under until next content patch when everyone gears up and PWS spam becomes viable again.

[Deleted]

If you think that buffing Disc priest demonstrated it was useless or underpowered, why don't you think nerfing PW:S demonstrates it was op?

[Memoryz]

. The hotfix announcement is the only reason I didn't step down from raiding on my priest. After a few raid nights of going back to ICC-style healing I didn't want to play the class anymore. This is a case where I'm happy my class got nerfed.

So you're happy that they nerfed something and that they didn't compensate for it? You do realize it's literally now impossible to pre-shield before raid damage, so you're just stuck with prayer of healing spam.

[harky]

Show us ONE specc in all of WOW which uses so many of the trees points for ONE pretty lackluster spell......

Let's see. How many talent points encourage spamming PW:S? 4. How many encourage PW:S to be used to setup other spells? 8. Total? 12.

How many talent points encourage spamming Holy Shock? 5. How many encourage Holy Shock to be used to setup other spells? 7. Total? 12.

How many talent points encourage spamming Renew? 11. How many encourage Renew to be used to setup other spells? 2. Total? 13.

I could go on, but it would be pointless. Disc needed a very small buff from 4.0.3 and got an immense buff to one spell that caused them to drop their spellbook and just spam that single spell. Disc is looking fantastic post-hotfix. It was already very good in 4.0.3 due to raid utility and competitive healing. It does not need to be 20%+ ahead of the other healers and still bringing that utility. It was broken.


@Memoryz- Skimming is bad. Go and read the 4.0.6 notes again. Discipline was buffed in a lot more ways than just PW:S. It just so happens that PW:S was such a massive buff that it changed the gameplay to pure PW:S spam. The other buffs are not being reverted. The only thing being changed is the quite-broken PW:S. Disc was fine in 4.0.3 despite being a tiny bit behind. Disc will be fine post hotfix and will be on par with the other healers.

[Staplecrab]

Surely taking PW:S back to a single cast every 12~ seconds for a rapture proc isn't what Blizzard wants for us?

How is spamming PoH instead any less dull and mindless?

Here's a suggestion: Keep PW:S at it's new increased cost. However have Archangel reduce the mana cost of bubble while it's active.

This would make us want to use PoH and Smite regularly (We were already using Penance and PoM even with Bubble spam, on 10m at least). It'd allow us to pop Archangel when we know there's going to be heavy aoe and we want to pre-shield the raid. However it'd stop mindless Bubble spam all the time. Of course we'd still be able to keep rapture up by shielding the tank, and shield people in an emergency outside of Archangel.

I think a solution of this nature would allow us to heal effectively while using all the spells in our arsenal. If Blizzard just increases the mana cost of shield I think it's going to be considerably more effective to spec Holy for a raid healing priest.

[Deleted]

So you're happy that they nerfed something and that they didn't compensate for it? You do realize it's literally now impossible to pre-shield before raid damage, so you're just stuck with prayer of healing spam.

Literally impossible? Exaggerate much? Will your priest explode on the spot if you cast 5 shields in a row now?

I'm not sure where this no-preshielding comes from. In 4.0.3 you could pre-shield a group for ~15k mana and you'd get ~60k absorb from it. Now it's ~26k mana and will absorb ~130k. So even after the hotfix you still get more absorb for your mana than in 4.0.3. Yes you can't just spam blanket the raid, but if there's a big damage spike, you can still pre-shield, with better efficieency than in 4.0.3.

[Deleted]

So basically, you want shields to be even less powerful than they were pre-4.0.6, and cost more mana than before.
Penance could use a slight buff.

No, I said CURRENT value. Unless they have already applied it.

[-Ethos-]

Disc is looking fantastic post-hotfix. It was already very good in 4.0.3 due to raid utility and competitive healing. It does not need to be 20%+ ahead of the other healers and still bringing that utility. It was broken.

How is going from Prayer of Healing -> PWS any worse or more broken than going from PWS -> Prayer of Healing?

[harky]

How is spamming PoH instead any less dull and mindless?

Yes. It is. It requires you to gauge group health compared to individual health to maximize output by using your other spells. Pre4.0.6 I was using PW:S, PoH, Penance, PoM, FH, GH, BH and Renew regularly. Poost 4.0.6 before the hotfix I was using PW:S, PoH and Penance (for 4pT10). PoH being ~50% is one thing. PW:S being 90%+ is completely different.