Response to Greg Street's "Progress" Post.

[bullseyed]

Greg,

You make some good points about progress in raiding, and you said some things that us hardcore raiders liked hearing. There is however one thing, one overarching concept in your post that you do not seem to understand. We don't like, nay despise, artificial stunting of raid progress. Whether the impeding factor is a gate, a wing that isn't open yet, or content that isn't released, it pisses us off. We realize that if you just had all the raids ready at the beginning of the expansion and released them all at once, the hardcore raiders would finish them all in about two months and everyone else would feel stupid for being so far behind. So make content harder. Make it so you can't do hard modes until you have nearly every drop from normal. Make it so if we stepped into firelands without heroic gear we get one shot. We would rather be given the freedom to fail than be artificially restrained. Now with firelands it is an issue where you haven't finished designing the dungeons yet. Stuff doesn't work yet, we get that, we've seen the bosses you RELEASE. What would make everyone happy is if you slightly delayed the first patch of the cycle until it was ready, so there was a good content buffer built up in the beginning. While we work through that buffer you would have ample time to design the next stage and everyone would be happy.

So what does it come down to. It comes down to this: you aren't ready to release more content. You have trouble taking responsibility for your own actions so you say that we aren't ready for new content. You generalize hardcore raiders and say that most of them want to take a break. How do you know this? Did you ask us? You certainly haven't asked my guild or any of the guilds I associate with, many of whom are sick of farming Sinestra every week. So please, refrain from informing us of what we think or feel. We are more than capable of figuring that out ourselves, even while we trivialize your encounters. If we are forbidden from saying that Blues don't play the game in a meaningful capacity, then you are forbidden from telling us whether we are ready or not for new content.

Your job is to design content, our job is to beat that content. Just because we're better at our job and can knock it down faster than you can pump it out doesn't mean you get to come out accusing us of things.

[Esedess]

/flex farming sinestra.

as ^ posters said, you do fall INTO the minority, let (what you elitist may call) less skilled players, have their time.

[Herecius]

OP.... you're complaining about how tired you are already of farming Sinestra, and yet, you're also saying that Blizzard should design raids so the only way you can get to the next level is if your entire raid is decked out in the best gear available? These things don't match up at all.

Also, watching this thread.

[Deleted]

You're not the only audience Blizzard caters to. In fact, you're a relative minority (which may surprise you).

Relative minority is the understatement of the century, how many people actually have Sinestra on a farm status? It is a tiny percenteage of the WoW community.

Wowprogress has just 55 guilds down as 13/13, just 55 out of how many? Tens of thousands?

[Tziva]

Your job is to design content, our job is to beat that content. Just because we're better at our job and can knock it down faster than you can pump it out doesn't mean you get to come out accusing us of things.

You're taking the post quite personal. I don't think you're being "accused" of anything.

As the person above me said, content is released not based on the best-of-the-best, nor the worst, but the average player.

[JeKv]

As soon as you say "we're tired of farming Sinestra" your credibility flies out the window. The phrase "Vocal minority" has never applied so effectively to a situation.

[murfle]

time is money friend, and the end all of all decision making..

[Sunseeker]

Going back to the days of having 1% of the population actually see the content in it's time benefits nobody.

[Krowz]

Your sheer ignorance leaves me speechless.

Do you assume that blizzard started working on firelands last week? They have to tune content to how current content is flowing, and that takes time. They take time to collect data and tweak the specs of each fight accordingly. Can you imagine how terrible things could be if they released 3 tiers of content at once with only minimal testing on the PTR? And also, how do you expect to make a raid that one shots you if you aren't full of the previous tiers gear? Absolute massive stat overloads? I'd say leave game designing to Blizzard, as they've clearly been doing it right for 20+ years now, your ideas are awful.

[Zorgen]

I can sympathize with the OP despite the fact I don't even raid anymore. It does seem somewhat insulting for a game dev to tell the player when and when not they are ready for more content.

It's like your mom telling you what shows your old enough to watch.

[bullseyed]

You're not the only audience Blizzard caters to. In fact, you're a relative minority (which may surprise you).

EDIT: I should elaborate. Your perspective is skewed because you, and apparently the guilds you associate with, have Sinestra on farm. This does not mean it's the norm--it's just your norm. Lately I've been playing with RL friends on Blackwater Raiders server--and guess what? Nobody on that server has seen Sinestra. Last I checked, nobody had seen Heroic Magmaw, yet.

You obviously haven't read Greg's post. He said (as I said in my post) what hardcore raiders are or are not thinking, not what the general population is thinking. Here is a quote from his post:

"Let’s consider two extremes. If you complete the raid content very quickly and have Sinestra on farm and everyone has acquired their best in slot items, then you’re probably ready to take a break from raiding. If you worked really hard to get to that point, as many of the current “finished” guilds did, then you’re probably pretty happy about resting until Firelands becomes available."

Speaking for myself and many others within this category, we aren't happy to rest. We don't want to take a break. If we take a break, we might not come back. Ok ok, he said "probably pretty happy" whoopie, he didn't use an absolute statement when making his broad generalization. The fact of the matter is he still made a broad generalization that appears to be incorrect based on available knowledge. Given that he generalized it, he probably believes what he said to be true, which is a bad thing for the community.

[Kiry]

On my server, only one guild is at 7/13, the rest is 5/13 or less - much less. I dont think we are complaining about raiding, we are just frustrated that there isn't that much to do outside of that. /shrug.

[Zeniff]

Just because we're better at our job and can knock it down faster than you can pump it out doesn't mean you get to come out accusing us of things.

Funny... I must have missed the accusation that he leveled at you. He used words like 'probably' and 'most likely'.
While your guild may have been farming Sinestra for weeks, the majority of guilds are working on Nefarian, Cho'gall and less- on normal mode. Even the majority of "hardcore" raiding guilds are around 5/12 on Hardmodes.

[tibben]

And if every core raider in every 13/13 heroic guild in the world were to quit WoW right now because they are bored of farming Sinestra Blizzard would lose...maybe 2000 accounts if you say each guild has about 35 core raiders and there are 56 13/13 heroic guilds in the world according to WoW Progress. 2000 people are upset...11,998,000 players are doing just fine. If you are so upset about being one of a handful of people that is farming stale content then find a new hobby. It won't hurt Blizzard's revenue.

[Verdris]

Many people here are missing the point. The OP is replying to GC's statement that hardcore raiders are "ready for a break", when, in reality, he's just saying that to cover the dev team's ass that Firelands isn't ready yet.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the majority of negative posts in this thread will be from people who are 3/12 normal modes at best.

There's nothing wrong with delaying a patch because the content isn't ready, the problem is lying to us about why it's not being released. We pay for this game. We deserve honesty from the people we give our money to.

[shadowboxer123]

Well first, since you do address it to "Greg", you do realize that this is not a Blizzard site and that there is a good chance he won't see this? If you want him to see it post on the official Blizzard site.

Otherwise, if you are so hardcore that you have already done all the raid content, then MAYBE it IS time to do something else. I mean it is a game, and if you aren't having fun and it feels like a chore, well why play?

Like others have already stated, there are MILLIONS of people that play this game, and you are in fact a minority of the player base.

[Rukentuts]

Greg Street is an idiot that couldn't cut it in the world of actual intelligence (Marine biology PHD lol) so he decided to make a mockery of the gaming industry by ramming the most successful MMO into the ground. Great job Greg.

Don't go down the route to call other people names, belittle them or anything of that kind. Thanks. -Nye

[Zeniff]

He probably believes what he said to be true, which is a bad thing for the community.

Does anyone else see the irony in this statement?

[Kiry]

meh - bordem is bordem.....regardless what the devs choose to do.

[Herecius]

Speaking for myself and many others within this category, we aren't happy to rest. We don't want to take a break. If we take a break, we might not come back. Ok ok, he said "probably pretty happy" whoopie, he didn't use an absolute statement when making his broad generalization. The fact of the matter is he still made a broad generalization that appears to be incorrect based on available knowledge. Given that he generalized it, he probably believes what he said to be true, which is a bad thing for the community.

The nuances are everything. The 'probably' makes all the difference, leaving room for uncertainty and not including all possible points of view. What is the available knowledge? You? Are you are our only available knowledge? Do you have a survey to back up the feelings of other 13/13 players? Is your entire elite guild so super pumped that they don't want to stop for anything, that resting is the most horrible thing in the world to them?

Don't take it so personally.