Blood Dk QoL issues? wha?

[MagusUnion]

I'm seeing alot of post about 'QoL' issues being posted about Blood dk's... where they are running out of runes, and finding their survivability gimped when they don't get that Death Strike off...

Personally, I don't get what the deal is.. I'm been having a blast with my dk, and even during 'rune downtime' I still manage to hold threat and keep my survivability, even at times when my Blood shield wears off...

So what's the deal? Do people not know how to use their Rune Power? Or are dk's still the 'easy' class that players mistakenly take up for a cheap tank?

[Wingwraith]

I don't think we're reading from the same forums because I really haven't seen a lot of people QQ'ing about QoL issues.

[Deleted]

there's a thread on this page (the one about blood DK tanking videos) where i explain that DKs are difficult when compared to the other tank classes. blood DKs are by far the most complex to play tanks.

what other tank needs to time 2 of their attacks (DS RS) to go off at exactly the right time in order to make max use of their main survival skill (Bshield)?
what other tank has 6 survival cooldowns, 3 of which that have to do with selfhealing?
what other tank has to use 2 resources for half of their cooldowns?
what other tank has 2 different resources where you consume one to generate the other, and consume the other for a chance to regen the other? (paladins don't count, mana is not an issue for any smart tank)
what other tank has to juggle 3 debuffs, 4 procs, alongside the aforementioned 6 cooldowns, 2 attacks and 2 resources?

i personally have so far shied away from blood tanking, simply because i'm afraid to become overwhelmed by the complexity compared to my paladin tank.

[Shamburger]

what other tank needs to time 2 of their attacks (DS RS) to go off at exactly the right time in order to make max use of their main survival skill (Bshield)?
what other tank has 6 survival cooldowns, 3 of which that have to do with selfhealing?
what other tank has to use 2 resources for half of their cooldowns?
what other tank has 2 different resources where you consume one to generate the other, and consume the other for a chance to regen the other? (paladins don't count, mana is not an issue for any smart tank)
what other tank has to juggle 3 debuffs, 4 procs, alongside the aforementioned 6 cooldowns, 2 attacks and 2 resources?

Just quoting 1 more time for emphasis.

You don't start a Blood DK expecting to have a good QoL.
You play one because:
1- You like a challenge in order to maximize your survivability.
2- You like having more control over your survivability than any other tank.
3- Your guild already has 2 pally/warrior tanks. Bears are broken, so not really an option.

[Deleted]

Sorry for retardness but what does QoL stand for?

[Shamburger]

Quality of life

[Drunkenvalley]

You don't start a Blood DK expecting to have a good QoL.

I did. /10char

The simple problem with what you're describing is that Blizzard should be perfectly able to maintain a good QoL. Challenge is good, but it gets downright ridiculous when you compare to the block-tanks.

[MagusUnion]

there's a thread on this page (the one about blood DK tanking videos) where i explain that DKs are difficult when compared to the other tank classes. blood DKs are by far the most complex to play tanks.

what other tank needs to time 2 of their attacks (DS RS) to go off at exactly the right time in order to make max use of their main survival skill (Bshield)?
what other tank has 6 survival cooldowns, 3 of which that have to do with selfhealing?
what other tank has to use 2 resources for half of their cooldowns?
what other tank has 2 different resources where you consume one to generate the other, and consume the other for a chance to regen the other? (paladins don't count, mana is not an issue for any smart tank)
what other tank has to juggle 3 debuffs, 4 procs, alongside the aforementioned 6 cooldowns, 2 attacks and 2 resources?

i personally have so far shied away from blood tanking, simply because i'm afraid to become overwhelmed by the complexity compared to my paladin tank.

I don't see where the issue is in your argument, other than the fact that there is more to micro-manage with dk tanks than with, say paladins or warriors...

Which, imo, is fine., because it allows me to tailor CD's to the circumstance...

About to take alot of magical damage?: Anti-Magic Zone + Mirror
About to take alot of physical damage?: Icebound Fortitude + Bone Shield
Need to quickly pull a mob w/o runes or DG?: Outbreak + Death Coil

It's this situational tanking that makes the spec. fun, and enjoyable to me... Of course, if this is the kind of thing players want to complain about having to do, then idk what to tell them other than to reroll to an 'easier' tanking class...

[Deleted]

also, OP, i just checked your spec. you got some interesting talent choices, to say the least. you skipped blood worms and dancing rune weapon, in exchange for extra RP and a shorter CD silence. why, exactly?

[Drunkenvalley]

It's this situational tanking that makes the spec. fun, and enjoyable to me... Of course, if this is the kind of thing players want to complain about having to do, then idk what to tell them other than to reroll to an 'easier' tanking class...

Similarly, I'll be more than happy to tell you to buy a new game if ever I hear you moan about something.

[Pope]

What the hell is QoL?

[Drunkenvalley]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post11626556

[Deleted]

I don't see where the issue is in your argument, other than the fact that there is more to micro-manage with dk tanks than with, say paladins or warriors...

Which, imo, is fine., because it allows me to tailor CD's to the circumstance...

About to take alot of magical damage?: Anti-Magic Zone + Mirror
About to take alot of physical damage?: Icebound Fortitude + Bone Shield
Need to quickly pull a mob w/o runes or DG?: Outbreak + Death Coil

It's this situational tanking that makes the spec. fun, and enjoyable to me... Of course, if this is the kind of thing players want to complain about having to do, then idk what to tell them other than to reroll to an 'easier' tanking class...

what i'm saying is that, while you might think that this adds some extra tools to your toolbox and gives you an adequate solution to many problems, for most tanks, this adds an extra layer of complexity to an already rather complex spec. for example, on chimaeron, you need to time your death strikes to hit right between the double attacks. on other bosses, if you wait slightly too long with using DS (one second is enough), you can lose up to a third of your death strike heal and blood shield.

twist and turn as it might be, death knights are a difficult class to play. some might enjoy this difficulty as a nice challenge, others think this difficulty is a bit overwhelming.

[Nerokin]

also, OP, i just checked your spec. you got some interesting talent choices, to say the least. you skipped blood worms and dancing rune weapon, in exchange for extra RP and a shorter CD silence. why, exactly?

My thoughts exactly. Butchery and Hand of Doom are wasted points, and 2/3 scent of blood is more than enough to have near 100% uptime. Bloodworms is just flat extra healing with no additional effort. DRW is another defensive cd, and you can never have too many of those as a tank.

[MagusUnion]

also, OP, i just checked your spec. you got some interesting talent choices, to say the least. you skipped blood worms and dancing rune weapon, in exchange for extra RP and a shorter CD silence. why, exactly?

Dancing Rune weapon is too expensive in terms of resources from RP... as such, it only offers +20% parry for it's cost, plus some additional threat on the side... It's not a fair survival/threat trade off compared to the 3 (or more) Rune Strikes I get for threat, and a large Blood Shield buffer that I already sport when it comes to physical damage in the first place.

Blood worms may be a nice raid healing mechanic towards keeping the party alive, but I've found it doesn't buffer enough as needed to discount the healers healing ability to keep up the group. Plus, I do think that Blizz never fixed the bug where the little bastards will take up AoE healings due to having small as hell health pools, so I'd rather avoid that situation altogether, lol...

Strangulate helps in situations where mob casters either A. Dish out alot of upfront damage, or B. are vital to a mob group's "survival" in terms of add healing. I usually silence and have the group quickly burn down any casters I see, simply to deny the healing option for the trash (if there are more than one casters to handle, I'll order some CC from the group). Doing so not only reduces the mob number in the trash pull, but tips the fight more in our favor because the 'mob group' lost a vital add to kill us with, enabling the dps to simply pick apart the rest of the group quickly... At the very least, it's a second interrupt that I can free-cast when I'm low on Rune Power...

Similarly, I'll be more than happy to tell you to buy a new game if ever I hear you moan about something.

LOL... I usually never quit a game because it's 'too hard'... only when I've had enough with 'other' uncontrollable' aspects of the community... :P

[Drunkenvalley]

LOL... I usually never quit a game because it's 'too hard'... only when I've had enough with 'other' uncontrollable' aspects of the community... :P

People don't just moan because things are too hard. Oh, it's too easy now? Or are DKs not working the way you like it?
You're casually dismissing fundamental problems, and that is quite frankly stupid.

There is no skill involved in judging the DKs as being too hard. The mediocre will complain because the DK has a steep learning curve. Average players will complain because they're getting benched, despite the pallies and warrs being of equal skill. Elites will complain because the amount of effort invested versus the payoff is ridiculously unbalanced compared to the block tanks.

TL;DR - it requires a certain type of masochistic player to enjoy the DK's difficulty if you even vaguely care about your performance.

[McCheese]

what i'm saying is that, while you might think that this adds some extra tools to your toolbox and gives you an adequate solution to many problems, for most tanks, this adds an extra layer of complexity to an already rather complex spec. for example, on chimaeron, you need to time your death strikes to hit right between the double attacks. on other bosses, if you wait slightly too long with using DS (one second is enough), you can lose up to a third of your death strike heal and blood shield.

twist and turn as it might be, death knights are a difficult class to play. some might enjoy this difficulty as a nice challenge, others think this difficulty is a bit overwhelming.

Bads will always find something to complain about. If you are failing because a single DS missed or was timed slightly incorrect, you probably have a lot more issues with you raid, especially for normal modes.

A majority of these supposed QoL issues are exactly what make DK's different from the other tanks, which is a good thing.

Overall, waste of a thread... complaining about complaints? who cares, play your dk if you are doing ok. (or even if you just think you are doing ok like the OP, come on, no dancing rune weap?)

[Drunkenvalley]

Overall, waste of a thread... complaining about complaints? who cares,

You receive a solid 8 out of 10 hypocrisy points for complaining about someone complaining about people complaining.

[Dyzon]

ONLY 20% Parry? ONLY 20% Parry?! I'm sorry but you lost me somewhere around here.

You're also talking about 5-mans and not raids, and in heroric raids, it'd be REALLY nice if I didn't have to be playing Rune Jenga while doing everything else I have to do. Making RE in blood proc F/U only would be one of the best things they could do for us in my opinion.

Regardless people seem to be confusing the skill debate and the QoL debate. They're not entirely the same.

[MagusUnion]

Overall, waste of a thread... complaining about complaints? who cares, play your dk if you are doing ok. (or even if you just think you are doing ok like the OP, come on, no dancing rune weap?)

No harm in asking why the community feels the way it does... I heard it's called 'listening'... and I wanted to 'listen' from other dk tanks as to why they feel the way they do.. :P

And no, when I can get 45k damage absorption buffed from my Blood Shield ontop of my usual damage reduction, then I do think I'm doing fine in terms of survivability. 8 CD's is more than enough to both keep myself alive, and clear content effectively...

TL;DR - it requires a certain type of masochistic player to enjoy the DK's difficulty if you even vaguely care about your performance.

You haven't tried warrior tanking at 85, I bet...