Endgame? [Video]

[Aurust]

Not sure if you interpret half the content being PVP in the same manner as I do, but disagree if you do.

I have done 3 PVP matches in Rift. For a quest line. Like... 5 months ago. Never once had to turn to PVP in Rift. The PVE content has been steady and consistent; 3-4 nights a week of raiding 20 and 10 mans and daily 5 mans. I never PVP'd in Warcraft either over ~6 years. I did... 1 or 2 battleground matches. Maybe? PVE'd all the way with no lack of PVE content.

A handful of dungeons in GW2 ala expert modes in Rift doesn't equal 32 dungeons at all. That's marketing.

Still on the fence about GW2 delivering robust and fast content updates for PVE. There have only been 2 months or so in which Rift hasn't had a sizable PVE update. Trion set a new standard for MMO content additions. I hope SWTOR and GW2 can keep up.

GW2 will be much much better than WOW even PVE wise..... look up totalhalibut on youtube and seach his uploads for guild wars 2. Alot of in depth coverage for pve and pvp. And OMG ur from brooklyn im in staten island

[Blznsmri]

-Snip-

You da man Odeezee.

[ddsad2212]

Im 50 50 on the games pve side, i havent heard a huge amount of info but this is my opinion of it. If there are a good amount of dungeons that have a high level of difficulty yes me and my friends will keep playing it and pvp every so often as well, if however its something like 10 dungeons all with normal and hard mode, (and ofc i know about they story mode not counting that ) then what will happen is, we will clear normal while level and probably roll over hards in a few weeks.

Now what id like to see is that(and maybe asking for game devs to put time into there game is to much to ask) there are dungeons and they have no extra hard mode(maybe a max level mode) and they scale up in difficulty depending on which one you enter, so say you start at the first one pugs kill it easy, next one pugs need to be better . and this goes all the way up to hardcore players who have 3 - 5 boss that we can sink 100+ trys into and feel like me achieved something when the boss dies, maybe thats just wishful thinkings, but tbh ill will hold back on my judgement of endgame until i get a chance to try it in beta. even if it sucks i think the game will be worth they money just due to the huge amount of content compared to other games of the same price.

[Blznsmri]

Im 50 50 on the games pve side, i havent heard a huge amount of info but this is my opinion of it. If there are a good amount of dungeons that have a high level of difficulty yes me and my friends will keep playing it and pvp every so often as well, if however its something like 10 dungeons all with normal and hard mode, (and ofc i know about they story mode not counting that ) then what will happen is, we will clear normal while level and probably roll over hards in a few weeks.

What about 10 dungeons with 30 different "hard modes?"

[Aurust]

Im 50 50 on the games pve side, i havent heard a huge amount of info but this is my opinion of it. If there are a good amount of dungeons that have a high level of difficulty yes me and my friends will keep playing it and pvp every so often as well, if however its something like 10 dungeons all with normal and hard mode, (and ofc i know about they story mode not counting that ) then what will happen is, we will clear normal while level and probably roll over hards in a few weeks.

Now what id like to see is that(and maybe asking for game devs to put time into there game is to much to ask) there are dungeons and they have no extra hard mode(maybe a max level mode) and they scale up in difficulty depending on which one you enter, so say you start at the first one pugs kill it easy, next one pugs need to be better . and this goes all the way up to hardcore players who have 3 - 5 boss that we can sink 100+ trys into and feel like me achieved something when the boss dies, maybe thats just wishful thinkings, but tbh ill will hold back on my judgement of endgame until i get a chance to try it in beta. even if it sucks i think the game will be worth they money just due to the huge amount of content compared to other games of the same price.

Seems the 5 mans are shaping up to all be hard mode. Looks like there will be very little room for error especially with only 5 people. Additionally since gw2 isnt so much of a hamster treadmill gear grind, there wont be outcries for nerfs so players can "see the content" ( get the same gear as people who put time and effort). IM guessing the gear will not be that much more powerful as much as how much more awesome/badass it will look on ur char.

[Durzlla]

Seems the 5 mans are shaping up to all be hard mode. Looks like there will be very little room for error especially with only 5 people. Additionally since gw2 isnt so much of a hamster treadmill gear grind, there wont be outcries for nerfs so players can "see the content" ( get the same gear as people who put time and effort). IM guessing the gear will not be that much more powerful as much as how much more awesome/badass it will look on ur char.

All endgame gear is equal, whether it's from crafting, pve, pvp, events etc

[Aurust]

All endgame gear is equal, whether it's from crafting, pve, pvp, events etc

Im fine with that, i just wanna look badass in my awesome looking plate on my warrior in a world that doesnt have silly looking armor like WOW but has a more i dunno grown up feel.

Where did you hear that all gear will be EQUAL? I mean i know for competitive pvp you get access to everything but i didnt know that gear from the hard 5 mans will be equal to easier to obtain stuff?

[Jovanaar]

The only thing I have doubts upon is the Zhaitan encounter in a 5 man, I really really REALLY hope it isn't a real fight against him to defeat/kill/weaken him. I hope it's an encounter to run away from him etc. The real fight should be somewhere in the world with approx 200 people.

[jvbastel]

The only thing I have doubts upon is the Zhaitan encounter in a 5 man, I really really REALLY hope it isn't a real fight against him to defeat/kill/weaken him. I hope it's an encounter to run away from him etc. The real fight should be somewhere in the world with approx 200 people.

Aye, a server-wide event that takes hundreds of people to succeed pls

[Durzlla]

Im fine with that, i just wanna look badass in my awesome looking plate on my warrior in a world that doesnt have silly looking armor like WOW but has a more i dunno grown up feel.

Where did you hear that all gear will be EQUAL? I mean i know for competitive pvp you get access to everything but i didnt know that gear from the hard 5 mans will be equal to easier to obtain stuff?

Anet said it'd be equal many times over, as in gear from max crafting will be equal to gear obtained from high end pvp and high end pve, so pretty much like in gw1 where te max gear is only different by apperance (no stat advantage for wearing pvp gear in pvp )

[Deleted]

a goal is the only thing required to "keep" a guild together be it for a illusory stat increases (WoW, SWTOR, Rift) or cosmetic choice (GW1, GW2).

Atleast with the more traditional way you have the feeling of your character becoming ever more powerful or better at staying alive and keeping others alive whereas with the GW-model all you get is new look, no actual feeling of progress. That is enough for that approach to fail for many people. Note that I am not saying it won't also work for many people, but for example I seriously doubt I will bother with tagging along random people just to get different looking item that is no better than what I have already. It just simply doesn't seem rewarding enough for the bother.

I am still planning to buy GW2 in the hopes that I am simply wrong, and because I wish to support developers who are willing to try new things.

[jvbastel]

Atleast with the more traditional way you have the feeling of your character becoming ever more powerful or better at staying alive and keeping others alive whereas with the GW-model all you get is new look, no actual feeling of progress. That is enough for that approach to fail for many people. Note that I am not saying it won't also work for many people, but for example I seriously doubt I will bother with tagging along random people just to get different looking item that is no better than what I have already. It just simply doesn't seem rewarding enough for the bother.

I am still planning to buy GW2 in the hopes that I am simply wrong, and because I wish to support developers who are willing to try new things.

Well in most MMO's, your character doesn't advance, his gear does. If you unequip it, you'll still be killed by a quill rat with a wet noodle. Advancement in GW1 was getting more skilled as your class. You advance as a player, so your character also becomes stronger

[Blznsmri]

Atleast with the more traditional way you have the feeling of your character becoming ever more powerful or better at staying alive and keeping others alive whereas with the GW-model all you get is new look, no actual feeling of progress. That is enough for that approach to fail for many people. Note that I am not saying it won't also work for many people, but for example I seriously doubt I will bother with tagging along random people just to get different looking item that is no better than what I have already. It just simply doesn't seem rewarding enough for the bother.

I am still planning to buy GW2 in the hopes that I am simply wrong, and because I wish to support developers who are willing to try new things.

I think their approach is that guilds should stick together because they enjoy each other's company and that they like to do things together. A lot of high end progression minded guilds I've been in in WoW were horrible. I could not stand a few people in each guild (made a few of them rage quit too... that's always fun) but it was quite ridiculous because the only thing that kept the guild together was how well the group was able to progress. If things weren't going well, they broke apart.

[Odeezee]

This is what makes GW2's current amount of challenging PvE content set for launch acceptable. You can fight any outdoor boss from any level of content and clear the lower level dungeons with a consistent challenge regardless of your level. Instead of just the 3 level 80 dungeons, you get the other 5 as well. There is no lack of PvE content confirmed for release. The entire game is truly endgame, whether you're leveling up or you're already level 80.

true that

You da man Odeezee.

haha, i hear you man.

Where did you hear that all gear will be EQUAL? I mean i know for competitive pvp you get access to everything but i didnt know that gear from the hard 5 mans will be equal to easier to obtain stuff?

it has been stated many times by the devs that the power of gear will plateau at each leveling tier and that the only real difference will be cosmetic.

the true change i see alot of people coming from stat progression games like WoW, Rift and SWTOR will be a change in expectations from games, where you no longer want to be more powerful through stat progression (at level cap) but more skilled as a player, where what drives you to play through content isn't gear upgrades but the actual experience itself (hopefully it will be fun) and cosmetic upgrades. that is the main barrier people have to breakdown for themselves to truly enjoy what GW2 is offering.

[Deleted]

The only thing I have doubts upon is the Zhaitan encounter in a 5 man, I really really REALLY hope it isn't a real fight against him to defeat/kill/weaken him. I hope it's an encounter to run away from him etc. The real fight should be somewhere in the world with approx 200 people.

Even if we were able to kill him with 5 >Players< there would still be involved some NPCs for the sake of lore, since it is really hard to make Lore progression if you had to pick a player to kill Zhaitan. It's like LK in Wotlk, we didn't kill LK, We only fought him. He was playing with us, in the end he got enough and wiped us. It was only because of Tirion the Ashbringer we were able to win that fight. I imagine it'll be something like this with the dragons, we'll be fighting beside NPCs who are lorewise very strong, or a one of the 3 Groups (The Vigil, Whisper... thing... and forgot the name of the last...) -- We'll see by the time it is released. I for sure don't doubt that ArenaNet will give us a 80% PvP and 20% PvE game.


And to someone who talked about GW being Pvp cuz of Name. "The Guild Wars" was an event happening in GW with the Guilds in the game (NPCs) being in a War, and it ends up that Guilds are banned from Ascalon (If I am not mistaken)

[jvbastel]

Also, as someone who farmed full FOW armor while ecto's were still expensive, cosmetics do matter

[Odeezee]

Atleast with the more traditional way you have the feeling of your character becoming ever more powerful or better at staying alive and keeping others alive whereas with the GW-model all you get is new look, no actual feeling of progress. That is enough for that approach to fail for many people. Note that I am not saying it won't also work for many people, but for example I seriously doubt I will bother with tagging along random people just to get different looking item that is no better than what I have already. It just simply doesn't seem rewarding enough for the bother.

I am still planning to buy GW2 in the hopes that I am simply wrong, and because I wish to support developers who are willing to try new things.

i alluded to this in my post to Aurust, but player perception is the culprit here as people think that stat progression is the only progression available. games with stat progression stifle what i feel is the most important and personal progression missing from most MMOs which is skill progression. and by skill progression i mean becoming better at your profession and in GW2 it means being able to adapt to your environment and the given situation to bring about a successful outcome.

stat progression games never let you become skilled because the only way to defeat the highest tier of content is ONLY by acquiring gear from earlier easier bosses in that very same dungeon. so basically your victory is not primarily due to your own skills but mainly due to the game placing an artificial buffer on you that gives most people the impression that they are actually becoming better players, when in reality they should be able to complete content without those stat increases to show how truly skilled they are. and not only do stat progression games reduce the amount of skill required for success they also then turn right around and trivialize content after every has acquired all the new loot, ONLY then to turn around and make that newly acquired "precious" obsolete again with a new patch or expansion. you also have to take into account the mechanics used in stat progression games which make power the only way to progress as the game offer little character advancement outside of that spectrum. i will close by saying this, to use a sports analogy it's like playing rugby and winning because you paid-off the ref and then claim you won because you are the better team. i don't know about you guys, but when i win i want you to know you were outplayed without a shadow of a doubt.

---------- Post added 2011-11-02 at 12:33 PM ----------

Well in most MMO's, your character doesn't advance, his gear does. If you unequip it, you'll still be killed by a quill rat with a wet noodle. Advancement in GW1 was getting more skilled as your class. You advance as a player, so your character also becomes stronger

pro way to look at it, i am bummed i didn't see it this way first ><

next time i tell you! ....next time! *shakes fist*

---------- Post added 2011-11-02 at 12:34 PM ----------

I think their approach is that guilds should stick together because they enjoy each other's company and that they like to do things together. A lot of high end progression minded guilds I've been in in WoW were horrible. I could not stand a few people in each guild (made a few of them rage quit too... that's always fun) but it was quite ridiculous because the only thing that kept the guild together was how well the group was able to progress. If things weren't going well, they broke apart.

a very good point, that i also forgot /sigh

[Deleted]

^ Gear progression and player-skill progression aren't mutually exclusive.

[Odeezee]

^ Gear progression and player-skill progression aren't mutually exclusive.

they actually are. you can be skilled but because the game "plays" for you through your gear you actually need less skill for a successful result. in all honesty stat progression just allows you to make more mistakes, hence the reason why you can be less skilled but because you have better gear than the encounter you still win and at that point skill doesn't become a deciding factor, just a bonus affecting the speed at which you are successful, not whether or not you will even be successful in the first place.

[Blznsmri]

^ Gear progression and player-skill progression aren't mutually exclusive.

You remember those guys from Undergeared or whatever in wow? Clearing most of ICC in ilvl 200 blues, something that a number of people couldn't do in 251 badge epics...

Hell, wasn't there a guild back in TBC that cleared a raid while a few people were still in Naxx epics?